Prospect Info: Blues 2023-2024 Prospect Thread

[Majorityof1]

Have you watched a bunch of his games in the SEL? I have only seen some highlights, but my understanding is that his team was one of the worst in the league talent wise. Not the best environment to make a jump to a higher level in. He also didn’t do as well in the WJC when paired with lower level linemates. He may be a guy that does better when playing with better players. I have noticed in the OHL that he will be open and in a great scoring position a lot where his teammates don’t see him. That’s one thing I don’t like about Musty’s game, he makes a lot of bad passes and try’s to do too much himself. I hope DVO gets a chance to play some AHL games at the end of the season so we can see how he looks against tougher competition.

Not a lot of games in SEL. I watched a few, supplemented with highlights and some scouting reports from over there. If his team was one of the worst, wouldn't that give him a chance to stand out more? If a borderline NHL player can't make the Golden Knights, that is understandable. If he can't make the Sharks, there is nothing borderline about it, he is not an NHL player.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

That's my read on Musty too. I haven't been very impressed in the 5 or 6 games I've watched.

 

[Quaz]

Not a lot of games in SEL. I watched a few, supplemented with highlights and some scouting reports from over there. If his team was one of the worst, wouldn't that give him a chance to stand out more? If a borderline NHL player can't make the Golden Knights, that is understandable. If he can't make the Sharks, there is nothing borderline about it, he is not an NHL player.

Just saying he seems like he plays better with higher IQ players. That seemed to be the case at the WJC. The Sharks still have Hertl and Couture among other high end players they can play their young talent with. The Blues should have some talent to pair with the younger guys next year as well.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Not a lot of games in SEL. I watched a few, supplemented with highlights and some scouting reports from over there. If his team was one of the worst, wouldn't that give him a chance to stand out more? If a borderline NHL player can't make the Golden Knights, that is understandable. If he can't make the Sharks, there is nothing borderline about it, he is not an NHL player.

Make it to where the Sharks would be at risk of being demoted to the AHL and it’d be different. Oskarshamn was trying to turn their season around and avoid relegation. No longer could have the patience to ease in a teenage rookie.

That said, his skating held him back and his struggles in the SHL shouldn’t be completely written off. He still needs to prove himself against pros.

However, I’d disagree that the SHL is a weak pro league. Most models show it being better than the KHL now and thus the best league outside of N.A.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Not a lot of games in SEL. I watched a few, supplemented with highlights and some scouting reports from over there. If his team was one of the worst, wouldn't that give him a chance to stand out more? If a borderline NHL player can't make the Golden Knights, that is understandable. If he can't make the Sharks, there is nothing borderline about it, he is not an NHL player.

this seems rather uncharitable. he was youngest guy with no ties to organization on a team that sucked. they were trying to avoid relegation, and rather than put him in position to succeed they decided they didn't have time for him to grow into role so they cut his ice time. because he wasn't gonna be back next year anyway so they said he!! with him. was he good there? no. does he bear some responsibility? sure. but how would guy like kyrou have looked at 18 in that situation? heck, remember what petro looked like at 18 in nhl? and then at 20 he looked like future star. not every 18 year old is gonna come in and light it up, even ones that become great nhl players.

 

[Celtic Note]

this seems rather uncharitable. he was youngest guy with no ties to organization on a team that sucked,. they were trying to avoid relegation, and rather than put him in position to succeed they decided they didn't have time for him to grow into role so they cut his ice time. because he wasn't goinna be back next year anyway so they said he!! with him. was he good there? no. does he bear some responsibility? sure. but how would guy like kyrou have looked at 18 in that situation? heck, remember what petro looked like at 18 in nhl? and then at 20 he looked like future star. not every 18 year old is gonna come in and light it up, even ones that become great nhl players.

I don’t think a guy like Kyrou, whose frame is not sizable compared to men would have faired well in a men’s league. But he wasn’t a top 10 pick in a well touted draft either. The expectations were not as high despite his high end skill.

With Petro, I think he would have faired well against men in a league like the SEL as his game was much more cerebral and he didn’t use his frame to power by kids of his own age. I also find his NHL readiness or lack there of to have been overblown at the time and it still seems to be IMO.

Dvo on the other hand has a frame that allows him to dominate kids his own age and he uses it fairly extensively. The concern I have with larger players is whether their size comes down to the question: is their size such an advantage in juniors that it masks over a lack of translatable NHL traits? There are many of high draft picks that turn out to be little to nothing at the NHL level. Erik Johnson is a prime example of where the hype our a hell of a specimen of a human being didn’t match what he was able to achieve (not to take away from his strong career). Is Dvo another EJ or is he just going through growing pains? I think there are enough areas of weakness that he needs to improve that the question is warranted. But, he still has plenty of time to figure it out and round out his game.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I don’t think a guy like Kyrou, whose frame is not sizable compared to men would have faired well in a men’s league. But he wasn’t a top 10 pick in a well touted draft either. The expectations were not as high despite his high end skill.

With Petro, I think he would have faired well against men in a league like the SEL as his game was much more cerebral and he didn’t use his frame to power by kids of his own age. I also find his NHL readiness or lack there of to have been overblown at the time and it still seems to be IMO.

Dvo on the other hand has a frame that allows him to dominate kids his own age and he uses it fairly extensively. The concern I have with larger players is whether their size comes down to the question: is their size such an advantage in juniors that it masks over a lack of translatable NHL traits? There are many of high draft picks that turn out to be little to nothing at the NHL level. Erik Johnson is a prime example of where the hype our a hell of a specimen of a human being didn’t match what he was able to achieve (not to take away from his strong career). Is Dvo another EJ or is he just going through growing pains? I think there are enough areas of weakness that he needs to improve that the question is warranted. But, he still has plenty of time to figure it out and round out his game.

to be clear, i'm not saying that success of dvo is guaranteed. i'm just illustrating that not being ready to star against men in tough league doesn't mean that you won't be a star. and i take issue that dvo is dominating ohl bc of his size. he is dominating bc his skill and brain are such that he is best player there. he isn't bowling over people like a modern day lindros. but he is playing with confidence and looks great. now key will be can he carry that over at higher levels, when everyone else is good. when game is faster and he has less time to make plays. but at least now when he plays against men again, he will be with team that is invested in his success and will work to put him in best situations to grow into player he has potential to become. because often that is difference between bust and star for guys who aren't on connors' level.

 

[Majorityof1]

this seems rather uncharitable. he was youngest guy with no ties to organization on a team that sucked. they were trying to avoid relegation, and rather than put him in position to succeed they decided they didn't have time for him to grow into role so they cut his ice time. because he wasn't gonna be back next year anyway so they said he!! with him. was he good there? no. does he bear some responsibility? sure. but how would guy like kyrou have looked at 18 in that situation? heck, remember what petro looked like at 18 in nhl? and then at 20 he looked like future star. not every 18 year old is gonna come in and light it up, even ones that become great nhl players.

They were facing relegation, they should have put the best players they had out there. Dvorsky was not one of the best players on a terrible team in a league several rungs below the AHL, much less the NHL. All that is saying is he isn't ready yet. Kyrou wasn't ready at 18 either, but Kyrou was a 2nd round pick. Nobody had expectations for him to come in and be a contributor at 19. People had those expectations for Dvorsky. His stint in SHL should have disabused them of those unless he makes gigantic strides quickly. That is not saying he won't be a great player, just that he was further back in his NHL timeline then we might have expected earlier. No idea why that is uncharitable.

to be clear, i'm not saying that success of dvo is guaranteed. i'm just illustrating that not being ready to star against men in tough league doesn't mean that you won't be a star. and i take issue that dvo is dominating ohl bc of his size. he is dominating bc his skill and brain are such that he is best player there. he isn't bowling over people like a modern day lindros. but he is playing with confidence and looks great. now key will be can he carry that over at higher levels, when everyone else is good. when game is faster and he has less time to make plays. but at least now when he plays against men again, he will be with team that is invested in his success and will work to put him in best situations to grow into player he has potential to become. because often that is difference between bust and star for guys who aren't on connors' level.

Point out where I said he won't eventually be a star? His size absolutely contributes to his domination. He can establish position in scoring areas and nobody can move him, he can carry the puck wherever he wants as slowly as he wants and nobody can push him off of it. It allows him to play a style and succeed that he would not get away with if he didn't have that strength advantage. Sure he has other skills, but it gives him a huge advantage given the way he plays.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

They were facing relegation, they should have put the best players they had out there. Dvorsky was not one of the best players on a terrible team in a league several rungs below the AHL, much less the NHL. All that is saying is he isn't ready yet. Kyrou wasn't ready at 18 either, but Kyrou was a 2nd round pick. Nobody had expectations for him to come in and be a contributor at 19. People had those expectations for Dvorsky. His stint in SHL should have disabused them of those unless he makes gigantic strides quickly. That is not saying he won't be a great player, just that he was further back in his NHL timeline then we might have expected earlier. No idea why that is uncharitable.

If that is all you are saying, I have no disagreement and I apologize if I misunderstood. I agree that his stint this year in sweden showed him to be further from nhl than we had hoped.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Point out where I said he won't eventually be a star? His size absolutely contributes to his domination. He can establish position in scoring areas and nobody can move him, he can carry the puck wherever he wants as slowly as he wants and nobody can push him off of it. It allows him to play a style and succeed that he would not get away with if he didn't have that strength advantage. Sure he has other skills, but it gives him a huge advantage given the way he plays.

perhaps, but from what i've seen of him in ohl he isn't outmuscling folks for his points. he is outthinking them and outskilling them.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

perhaps, but from what i've seen of him in ohl he isn't outmuscling folks for his points. he is outthinking them and outskilling them.

This is what I see watching their games.

I don’t think a guy like Kyrou, whose frame is not sizable compared to men would have faired well in a men’s league. But he wasn’t a top 10 pick in a well touted draft either. The expectations were not as high despite his high end skill.

With Petro, I think he would have faired well against men in a league like the SEL as his game was much more cerebral and he didn’t use his frame to power by kids of his own age. I also find his NHL readiness or lack there of to have been overblown at the time and it still seems to be IMO.

Dvo on the other hand has a frame that allows him to dominate kids his own age and he uses it fairly extensively. The concern I have with larger players is whether their size comes down to the question: is their size such an advantage in juniors that it masks over a lack of translatable NHL traits? There are many of high draft picks that turn out to be little to nothing at the NHL level. Erik Johnson is a prime example of where the hype our a hell of a specimen of a human being didn’t match what he was able to achieve (not to take away from his strong career). Is Dvo another EJ or is he just going through growing pains? I think there are enough areas of weakness that he needs to improve that the question is warranted. But, he still has plenty of time to figure it out and round out his game.

If you want to see Petro at 18 watch Dickinson now. He could out skate his mistakes and lack of awareness of his teammates.

 

[LGB]

I think Dvorsky's D+1 is going about as well as I could have hoped. His production is impressive even for a 10th overall pick, and even if he had been able to carve out a role on Oskarshamn I don't think he would have been able to develop as well in that league.

 

[stl76]

perhaps, but from what i've seen of him in ohl he isn't outmuscling folks for his points. he is outthinking them and outskilling them.

100% agreed. I’ve seen a lot of posts here and in Dvorskys main board thread with a similar flavor: a significant part of his success against peers and struggles against men is due to him being more physically developed than other kids his age.

Frankly I just dont see it in his play against his peers in the OHL + WJC. You watch him and he is not dominating other kids with his size. He doesn’t have a particularly long reach, he isn’t significantly taller, he is not rag dolling people in the corners or on the dot or anything. Surely he has a good frame and is strong for his age which helps some with faceoffs and puck protection…but it’s his brain and his puck skills (particularly his shot) that allow him to light up the OHL.

Can’t comment a ton of his professional games in Sweden as I’ve really only seen highlights and a few shifts of live action. I am willing to give a lot of benefit of the doubt to Dvorsky tho given his play since and the well known adverse conditions he was facing there re: bad team, not ideal situation, etc.

 

[Majorityof1]

100% agreed. I’ve seen a lot of posts here and in Dvorskys main board thread with a similar flavor: a significant part of his success against peers and struggles against men is due to him being more physically developed than other kids his age.

Frankly I just dont see it in his play against his peers in the OHL + WJC. You watch him and he is not dominating other kids with his size. He doesn’t have a particularly long reach, he isn’t significantly taller, he is not rag dolling people in the corners or on the dot or anything. Surely he has a good frame and is strong for his age which helps some with faceoffs and puck protection…but it’s his brain and his puck skills (particularly his shot) that allow him to light up the OHL.

Can’t comment a ton of his professional games in Sweden as I’ve really only seen highlights and a few shifts of live action. I am willing to give a lot of benefit of the doubt to Dvorsky tho given his play since and the well known adverse conditions he was facing there re: bad team, not ideal situation, etc.

A lot of his goals are in close to the net He can set up camp because the other team can't move him. They try early, and give up from games I have seen, choosing to try deny him passes instead. He might not be out muscling them on the highlight, but he doesn't have to after out muscling them all game. At least from my limited viewings of full games, and a lot of his highlights being in close. He wasn't getting to those areas in SHL, again in very limited viewings.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

A lot of his goals are in close to the net He can set up camp because the other team can't move him. They try early, and give up from games I have seen, choosing to try deny him passes instead. He might not be out muscling them on the highlight, but he doesn't have to after out muscling them all game. At least from my limited viewings of full games, and a lot of his highlights being in close. He wasn't getting to those areas in SHL, again in very limited viewings.

Quite a few one timers in there. They also call him Mr. Shortside.

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

Must preference this statement with, I am NOT down on Dvorsky at all. But with hindsight in full effect, would anyone go back and take Willander over Dvorsky with how good the pairing of him and Lindstein has looked? Man tough choice, but damn D partners coming up through the system together that thus far look like 2nd pairing at worst, would be awesome.

Absolutely. There are quite a few guys. Hell I might even take Stenberg or Lindstein over him in a redraft.

I think if someone did a full redraft all 3 of our picks would be slotted in the late teens.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Absolutely. There are quite a few guys. Hell I might even take Stenberg or Lindstein over him in a redraft.

I think if someone did a full redraft all 3 of our picks would be slotted in the late teens.

Totally disagree. Lindstein would I think move up 5-10 spots in a redraft, but the other 2 I don't see moving much either way. And I love Willander, he was my guy if we didn't take Dvo, but I haven't changed my thoughts on either him or Dvo enough to want to switch them. Now if we could get Willander in a trade to add to our stash..

 

[stl76]

A lot of his goals are in close to the net He can set up camp because the other team can't move him. They try early, and give up from games I have seen, choosing to try deny him passes instead. He might not be out muscling them on the highlight, but he doesn't have to after out muscling them all game. At least from my limited viewings of full games, and a lot of his highlights being in close. He wasn't getting to those areas in SHL, again in very limited viewings.

Interesting, haven’t really noticed that happening too much but obviously possible I just missed it or caught different games.

 

[Xerloris]

Did you guys see this?

 

[execwrite1]

Any thoughts on Paul Fischer of Notre Dame.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Any thoughts on Paul Fischer of Notre Dame.

I’ve been impressed. Long way from nhl, but has everything you look for in a modern d. Not going to be a star, but I could see him as a 4-5 guy if everything goes right or 6/7 guy even if he falls a bit short.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I’ve been impressed. Long way from nhl, but has everything you look for in a modern d. Not going to be a star, but I could see him as a 4-5 guy if everything goes right or 6/7 guy even if he falls a bit short.

Agree. I didn’t notice him much last season as I watched a lot of the NTDP U18 team but noticed him more at the U18 WJC. Calm and steady. I’ve only watched 2 full ND games and then some highlights but he reminds me of a lefty version of what I saw from Kessel when he was in college. But I’ll note Fisher is doing it in his 18 year old season (just noticed he turned 19 yesterday so HBD Paul) while Kessel was 20-21 at the time. He’s doing quite well as a true freshman d-man IMO.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Agree. I didn’t notice him much last season as I watched a lot of the NTDP U18 team but noticed him more at the U18 WJC. Calm and steady. I’ve only watched 2 full ND games and then some highlights but he reminds me of a lefty version of what I saw from Kessel when he was in college. But I’ll note Fisher is doing it in his 18 year old season (just noticed he turned 19 yesterday so HBD Paul) while Kessel was 20-21 at the time. He’s doing quite well as a true freshman d-man IMO.

It's funny, Kessel was comp I was thinking of too. I think he could be a bit better if all goes ideally, but for a 5th round pick (like Kessel) becoming what Kessel seems on cusp of would be strong outcome.

 

[jjniner]

Albert Johannson and William Wallinder for Buch!

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Albert Johannson and William Wallinder for Buch!

nowhere near enough.