Prospect Info: Blues 2023-2024 Prospect Thread

[Quaz]

Does anyone know why Jiri Kulich didn’t get picked till the end of the first round his draft year? He was picked after Snuggerud. Does he have a higher ceiling? He is already doing well in the AHL.

 

[Brockon]

Does anyone know why Jiri Kulich didn’t get picked till the end of the first round his draft year? He was picked after Snuggerud. Does he have a higher ceiling? He is already doing well in the AHL.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it relates to him playing his draft season in the Czech league and being less scouted because of it? He had pretty good WJC numbers (PPG+ in both U18 and U20s), but 9g-5a-14p in 49gp suggests low on ice impact (probably 3/4th line minutes in a "lower ranked" men's league prioritizing wins over development).

Probably didn't impress in the limited games scouts outside of Buffalo saw?

 

[STL fan in MN]

Does anyone know why Jiri Kulich didn’t get picked till the end of the first round his draft year? He was picked after Snuggerud. Does he have a higher ceiling? He is already doing well in the AHL.

It was just a miss. I don’t think teams scout the Czech league well. It’s not a top pro league. But Kulich is an absolute stud and yeah, I’d definitely take him over Snuggerud.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it relates to him playing his draft season in the Czech league and being less scouted because of it? He had pretty good WJC numbers (PPG+ in both U18 and U20s), but 9g-5a-14p in 49gp suggests low on ice impact (probably 3/4th line minutes in a "lower ranked" men's league prioritizing wins over development).

Probably didn't impress in the limited games scouts outside of Buffalo saw?

those seem like pretty strong numbers for a kid in a men's league. plus he starred at u18 and made wjc as a 17 year old. he even has decent size. i don't know where the disconnect is, but it's pretty egregious that he fell. and before we give buffalo 2 much credit, he was still their 3rd pick after savoie and ostlund. okay, maybe we should give buffalo credit for seemingly nailing all 3.

 

[Brockon]

those seem like pretty strong numbers for a kid in a men's league. plus he starred at u18 and made wjc as a 17 year old. he even has decent size. i don't know where the disconnect is, but it's pretty egregious that he fell. and before we give buffalo 2 much credit, he was still their 3rd pick after savoie and ostlund. okay, maybe we should give buffalo credit for seemingly nailing all 3.

The Czech league, similar to the Swiss league is considered at least a rung below the SHL, Liiga or KHL. So to be 0.29 PPG there doesn't make a kid jump off the page, despite being unusual.

There was talk during Matthews draft year about his decision to play for the Swiss Zurich Lion's team and how it wasn't top tier competition. Not quite the same as Makar flying under the radar in the AJHL, but Josi was also under scouted due to a similar bias in the Swiss leagues. Pastrnak was highly regarded as a prospect in his draft year because he made the transition to the the Swedish Allsvenskan program for his D-1 and D seasons, he was not heralded as a first round pick based on his Czech junior numbers. Reinbacher's Austrian numbers are being disregarded by many because they look pedestrian for a 5oa pick. Seider's German DEL numbers were trivialized as well...

There's a significant lack of ability for people to compare numbers across different men's leagues objectively... Professional scouts are aware of this, but tend to show a bias towards leagues they can better assess and understand the talent level of the standard (hence a lean towards CHL, NCAA, USHL, SHL, Liiga, Allsvenskan, KHL, VHL players over DEL, CZE, NL or other European pro leagues). You also see it with team controlled prospects being preferentially developped in their D+1 seasons in the Russian, Swedish or Finish pros if not placed in a North American system agreed upon.

The 2013 lockout saw middle six players put up some pretty ridiculous numbers overseas during their limited time in various leagues - the 2 articles below outline several of these, with the CBC one giving tabular data vs the Bleacher report giving brief write ups. This should highlight some of that inability to qualitatively contrast league to league, given players like Sobotka, Plekanec, Erhoff putting up much better PPG relative to their NHL career stats.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...erformances-of-top-nhl-players-during-lockout

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/who-s-hot-nhl-european-stats-leaders-during-the-lockout-1.1316150

 

[ArenaRat]

Scott Wheeler in The Athletic posted notes today on over 100 prospects at the World Juniors. Here are his thoughts on a few Blues notables:

Jimmy Snuggerud (F, St. Louis Blues): Around it. Sticking with plays. Going to scoring areas. Wrister coming off of his blade hard and quickly. Stronger than his opponents on pucks/stick lifts. Showed great touch as a passer. Missed preliminary round finale with bug, and while he was placed on the fourth line when he got back for a couple of games because Oliver Moore had played well in his absence, he was back on that unit for the second half of the semi and the gold medal game.

Otto Stenberg (F, St. Louis Blues): Stenberg only played 14 minutes a game in a third-line role but he still found ways to manufacture offense, spend his shifts in the offensive zone, and contribute on special teams. Everybody loves a worker with skill. That’s his game and he plays to his identity to a tee. Doesn’t try to do too much but makes things happen and is opportunistic. A model of consistency (point in every game to show for it).

Theo Lindstein (D, St. Louis Blues): Lindstein was a late addition to injuries to Calle Odelius and Jakob Noren on Sweden’s backend, and he didn’t just not look out of place, he was tremendous on a pairing with Tom Willander. He has typically been a steady two-way type for the Swedes but he showed some real creativity and offense throughout without sacrificing his reliable game defensively. Very impressive for an 18-year-old.

Aleksanteri Kaskimaki (F, St. Louis Blues): Scored a couple of big goals, including a huge one in the final minutes to give the Finns the 3-2 lead and the win in the quarters.

Dalibor Dvorsky (F, St. Louis Blues): Controls and protects the puck so well. Shot flashed in moments. Good in the faceoff circle. A go-to player as the third-youngest and a fourth-timer on the team. Skating still missing a step, but the rest of a talented middle-sixer is there. Dangerous on the PP with his shot/feel on the puck as a passer.

Juraj Pekarcik (F, St. Louis Blues): Noticeable in puck protection, both on the perimeter and in holding pucks to attack into the slot off his hip. Noticeable off the rush with his speed, gaining a step on defenders. I thought he was Slovakia’s best forward against USA to close out the preliminary round and he caught my eye consistently for an 18-year-old. Has some tools to work with.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Scott Wheeler in The Athletic posted notes today on over 100 prospects at the World Juniors. Here are his thoughts on a few Blues notables:

Jimmy Snuggerud (F, St. Louis Blues): Around it. Sticking with plays. Going to scoring areas. Wrister coming off of his blade hard and quickly. Stronger than his opponents on pucks/stick lifts. Showed great touch as a passer. Missed preliminary round finale with bug, and while he was placed on the fourth line when he got back for a couple of games because Oliver Moore had played well in his absence, he was back on that unit for the second half of the semi and the gold medal game.

Otto Stenberg (F, St. Louis Blues): Stenberg only played 14 minutes a game in a third-line role but he still found ways to manufacture offense, spend his shifts in the offensive zone, and contribute on special teams. Everybody loves a worker with skill. That’s his game and he plays to his identity to a tee. Doesn’t try to do too much but makes things happen and is opportunistic. A model of consistency (point in every game to show for it).

Theo Lindstein (D, St. Louis Blues): Lindstein was a late addition to injuries to Calle Odelius and Jakob Noren on Sweden’s backend, and he didn’t just not look out of place, he was tremendous on a pairing with Tom Willander. He has typically been a steady two-way type for the Swedes but he showed some real creativity and offense throughout without sacrificing his reliable game defensively. Very impressive for an 18-year-old.

Aleksanteri Kaskimaki (F, St. Louis Blues): Scored a couple of big goals, including a huge one in the final minutes to give the Finns the 3-2 lead and the win in the quarters.

Dalibor Dvorsky (F, St. Louis Blues): Controls and protects the puck so well. Shot flashed in moments. Good in the faceoff circle. A go-to player as the third-youngest and a fourth-timer on the team. Skating still missing a step, but the rest of a talented middle-sixer is there. Dangerous on the PP with his shot/feel on the puck as a passer.

Juraj Pekarcik (F, St. Louis Blues): Noticeable in puck protection, both on the perimeter and in holding pucks to attack into the slot off his hip. Noticeable off the rush with his speed, gaining a step on defenders. I thought he was Slovakia’s best forward against USA to close out the preliminary round and he caught my eye consistently for an 18-year-old. Has some tools to work with.

He seems to have positive things to say about all 7. Which I’d agree with. None of them had a bad tourney. A few met expectations and quite a few exceeded expectations.

 

[Frenzy31]

He forgot Stancl.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

Must preference this statement with, I am NOT down on Dvorsky at all. But with hindsight in full effect, would anyone go back and take Willander over Dvorsky with how good the pairing of him and Lindstein has looked? Man tough choice, but damn D partners coming up through the system together that thus far look like 2nd pairing at worst, would be awesome.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Pronman was pretty down on Dvorsky’s tournament. Not really surprised though. He seems to always have some bad takes.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Everything I'm reading about Dvo sounds like if he can take a Brayden Point level step in his skating, the sky is the limit on this kid. I really hope he does.

 

[TheOrganist]

I think we’d all agree that if the final product of our first top 10 pick in 15 years is a “talented middle sixer” it would be a pretty disappointing outcome. He has a much higher ceiling than that.

 

[ezcreepin]

I think we’d all agree that if the final product of our first top 10 pick in 15 years is a “talented middle sixer” it would be a pretty disappointing outcome. He has a much higher ceiling than that.

He doesn't even have to become a great skater or anything, if he could have an O'Reilly trajectory, he'd be much more than a "middle six" forward. Even now, I think he's at least a 2nd line center. So weird to describe him as a middle sixer

 

[LGB]

I think it's possible Dvorsky doesn't become a top six center. Besides skating, his vision and playmaking when he's carrying the puck with speed I think are currently lacking. His handling and IQ are both high level I think though so it's something that should hopefully improve over time. I think we're really fortunate he ended up in the CHL because he needs the leeway to take risks and develop those skills.

 

[Celtic Note]

I am not gonna lie, despite liking Dvo, this year hasn’t really inspired a ton of confidence.

 

[Mike Liut]

Just remember how bad Petro looked early on. Some kids take a couple years longer to develop. Dvo has all the tools to be great. Think ROR, Horvat as comps.

 

[Majorityof1]

Just remember how bad Petro looked early on. Some kids take a couple years longer to develop. Dvo has all the tools to be great. Think ROR, Horvat as comps.

All the tools except all the ones people have been saying he lacks. I mean I could make your comment about anyone.

Nikita Susyev: Just remember how Biinington looked early on (cause you got to randomly name a player that doesn't play the same position as if that has anything to do with the price of tea in China). Sure he wasn't invited to the world juniors but some kids take longer to develop, Susy has all the tools to be great (just ignore the tools he doesn't have). Think McDavid, Draistl for comps (just name 2 random great players not even saying why they play similar).

I mean, Dvorsky could turn out to be a great player. He should and probably will turn out to be a great player. But just burying your head in the sand, ignoring the issues doesn't make them go away. Because for every highly drafted player that struggles early and figures it out, there are ones that never figure it out.

 

[Frenzy31]

I think it's possible Dvorsky doesn't become a top six center. Besides skating, his vision and playmaking when he's carrying the puck with speed I think are currently lacking. His handling and IQ are both high level I think though so it's something that should hopefully improve over time. I think we're really fortunate he ended up in the CHL because he needs the leeway to take risks and develop those skills.

where are you getting poor vision and playmaking issues from?

 

[Celtic Note]

Just remember how bad Petro looked early on. Some kids take a couple years longer to develop. Dvo has all the tools to be great. Think ROR, Horvat as comps.

I see this being brought up a bit recently and I don’t ever recall thinking that in his limited call up that Petro ever looked bad. He just looked like he needed more time. I never questioned whether he would be an NHL defenseman that I can recall.

 

[joe galiba]

Just remember how bad Petro looked early on. Some kids take a couple years longer to develop. Dvo has all the tools to be great. Think ROR, Horvat as comps.

I am old so my memory could be foggy, but I remember Petro being a stud in juniors and having all the tools just not being ready to play against men

 

[Mike Liut]

I am old so my memory could be foggy, but I remember Petro being a stud in juniors and having all the tools just not being ready to play against men

im just saying that it takes time to develop.

 

[joe galiba]

im just saying that it takes time to develop.

true, but Petro had all the tools, Devo doesn’t, at least not at this time, his skating (all though very limited viewing) does not excite me, and that is against juniors

 

[LGB]

where are you getting poor vision and playmaking issues from?

Viewings in his draft year. Have only seen some clips of him in the OHL this season. This is specifically at speed, when he slows down he's actually a pretty good playmaker, but I feel he doesn't have great awareness of all his options and defaults to either going solo or making very simple plays with little deception when at full speed.

 

[Celtic Note]

Viewings in his draft year. Have only seen some clips of him in the OHL this season. This is specifically at speed, when he slows down he's actually a pretty good playmaker, but I feel he doesn't have great awareness of all his options and defaults to either going solo or making very simple plays with little deception when at full speed.

Seems like a good assessment to me. He certainly isn’t a tic-tac-toe / fast break player.

 

[Frenzy31]

Viewings in his draft year. Have only seen some clips of him in the OHL this season. This is specifically at speed, when he slows down he's actually a pretty good playmaker, but I feel he doesn't have great awareness of all his options and defaults to either going solo or making very simple plays with little deception when at full speed.

So you saw some highlights in his draft year and some highlights this year. The problem I have with this is others will start parroting this as facts about his play Because they read it here and it creates a false narrative.