Prospect Info: Blues 2023-2024 Prospect Thread

[542365]

Rating prospects is educated guesswork. How highly rated was Mike Luit, after a college career at Bowling Green?

Goal is the most important position in hockey and a good prospect in goal is worth more than a good skater at another position, other things being equal.

I disagree. Goalie is the least important position and NHL goalies are relatively interchangeable. Obviously some guys are marginally better than others, but any NHL starter would’ve won with Vegas this past season and Colorado the year before and the Blues won with Binnington because the skaters were so dominant. Vasi is great, and definitely contributed to the Lightning Cups, but if they had Freddie Andersen or Tristan Jarry in net, I still think they would’ve won. Binnington didn’t go from dominant to one of the league’s worst goalies because he stopped trying or caring or working. He’s always been this level, he just had an elite team in front of him his first season and a half.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I disagree. Goalie is the least important position and NHL goalies are relatively interchangeable. Obviously some guys are marginally better than others, but any NHL starter would’ve won with Vegas this past season and Colorado the year before and the Blues won with Binnington because the skaters were so dominant. Vasi is great, and definitely contributed to the Lightning Cups, but if they had Freddie Andersen or Tristan Jarry in net, I still think they would’ve won. Binnington didn’t go from dominant to one of the league’s worst goalies because he stopped trying or caring or working. He’s always been this level, he just had an elite team in front of him his first season and a half.

Somewhat agree and somewhat disagree.

I’d say goaltending is by far the most important position. It can absolutely save or sink your team. But the margin between elite, good, average, below average and bad is pretty razor thin these days. And guys can go on hot or cold streaks. But finding a guy that you can consistently count on is gold.

I disagree the Lightning win with a Jarry/Andersen level of guy.

The Blues had great teams for most of the 90s and 2000s and were often undone by subpar goaltending in the playoffs. Goaltending is absolutely vital. It was the Blues’ Achilles heel for decades. Imagine if Hasek hasn’t said no to the trade to the Blues and forced his way to Detroit instead?

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Somewhat agree and somewhat disagree.

I’d say goaltending is by far the most important position. It can absolutely save or sink your team. But the margin between elite, good, average, below average and bad is pretty razor thin these days. And guys can go on hot or cold streaks. But finding a guy that you can consistently count on is gold.

I disagree the Lightning win with a Jarry/Andersen level of guy.

The Blues had great teams for most of the 90s and 2000s and were often undone by subpar goaltending in the playoffs. Goaltending is absolutely vital. It was the Blues’ Achilles heel for decades. Imagine if Hasek hasn’t said no to the trade to the Blues and forced his way to Detroit instead?

this is true, but great teams can win Cup with average goaltending more often than average teams win Cups with great goaltending. guy like osgood was mediocre and he won multiple Cups. Vegas just won with a journeyman. but turek implosion sank us. fine line.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

this is true, but great teams can win Cup with average goaltending more often than average teams win Cups with great goaltending. guy like osgood was mediocre and he won multiple Cups. Vegas just won with a journeyman. but turek implosion sank us. fine line.

Yeah I basically agree with this. If you have a loaded offense, and average defense, you definitely need high end goaltending to contend for a cup.

If you’re a very strong defensive team, you can get by with average to good goaltending ie: Colorado and Vegas

I want to add Tampa to that second list as well, as I think Vasy is pretty overrated, but that’s a discussion that’s hard to have with people. Very clutch in big games, but he HAS had an absolutely loaded defense for years, and his regular season numbers aren’t “best goalie in the world” caliber to me imo.

 

[Renard]

Bad goaltending can do more harm than just giving up bad goals. It can also demoralize the team. Teammates wonder what good it does to bust your ass on the ice only to see the opposition score easily.

The goalie is the only player out there all 60 minutes. The goalie can help his defenseman too, with puck handling.

No one commented on how Mike Luit was rated before he came to the Blues. It couldn't have been very highly, Bowling Green not considered a powerhouse.

 

[shpongle falls]

Found this video randomly today and thought I’d share it. Love what I’m hearing can’t wait to see these guys play.

 

[oPlaiD]

Bad goaltending can do more harm than just giving up bad goals. It can also demoralize the team. Teammates wonder what good it does to bust your ass on the ice only to see the opposition score easily.

The goalie is the only player out there all 60 minutes. The goalie can help his defenseman too, with puck handling.

No one commented on how Mike Luit was rated before he came to the Blues. It couldn't have been very highly, Bowling Green not considered a powerhouse.

Goaltending is frustrating to me as a fan looking at roster construction. All of these teams know what people are saying here about goaltending and how there's little difference between the NHL goaltenders, but they're still paying guys 6m a year on long term deals to do it. And I think that's basically just the going rate for "security" in the position, for locking in a guy you know at least won't just be bad enough to sink a season, but not necessarily good. Which makes it extra frustrating as a fan when a team has someone random cheap tender like Jarry and succeeds, but that's also with tunnel vision ignoring the teams who had random guys like that and bombed.

 

[Wovenhand1976]

EV Zug's Attilio Biasca invited to the St. Louis Blues' rookie camp

The young forward of EV Zug will attend the camp from September 13 to September 19.

swisshockeynews.ch

Attilio Biasca - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Attilio Biasca, 2003-03-18 Samedan, SUI Switzerland. Most recently in the undefined with Zug. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

 

[PocketNines]

We're really going to talk about paying Binnington as a security "so that we won't stink too bad" move.

The guy has had a transcendent level of focus in the playoffs multiple times for the Blues. That's good, right? Athletes who can compete above the heads of other elite athletes, those are good athletes to acquire, yes?

 

[Brian39]

I liked your post but I disagree about Dunn. He got plenty of ice time here. I just wish we had protected him in the draft.

In 2018/19 he got 17:32 a night and was the clear #5 D man as a 22 year old 2nd year player.

In 2019/20, he got 16:16 a night and was the clear #5 D man as a 23 year old. When Bo went down, we quickly brought in (and fairly quickly extended) Scandella to replace him in the top 4.

In the 2020 offseason, Petro left and we brought in Krug.

In 2020/21, his overall ice time increased to 19:19 a night, which made him the #5 D man for a team that used its 5th D more than it had in the past when Petro was munching up 24+ minutes a night. Injury (and the fact that this was the COVID season) limited him to just 43 games in this role.

He was exposed (and taken by Seattle) in the 2021 expansion draft.

During his time with the Blues, he only got looks in the top 4 for very brief periods. He was 5th on the depth chart every season he was here and he was never given an extended look on the top PP unit. I wouldn't describe that as plenty of ice time when talking about a quality young player with top 4 potential. I agree with you that I wish we had protected him in the draft, but a huge part of that belief is I don't think we gave him enough opportunity before giving up on him. Bringing in Krug and playing hardball with him for a dirt cheap 1 year bridge late in the offseason of 2020 made it very clear he wasn't in our long term plans.

 

[Brian39]

Yeah I basically agree with this. If you have a loaded offense, and average defense, you definitely need high end goaltending to contend for a cup.

If you’re a very strong defensive team, you can get by with average to good goaltending ie: Colorado and Vegas

I want to add Tampa to that second list as well, as I think Vasy is pretty overrated, but that’s a discussion that’s hard to have with people. Very clutch in big games, but he HAS had an absolutely loaded defense for years, and his regular season numbers aren’t “best goalie in the world” caliber to me imo.

Are we saying that these great teams can win a Cup with a goalie who is overall average-to-good or that they can win a Cup with a goalie who plays average-to-good in the playoff run? Because those are very different things.

Adin Hill isn't (or at least hasn't been) a good NHL starter throughout his career. He's had a handful of seasons where he provided average-to-good goaltending over backup goalie sample sizes and absolutely wasn't ever considered a good goalie going into the playoffs last spring. But he gave Vegas high end caliber goaltending during the playoffs. He posted a .932 SV% in the playoffs and put up fantastic numbers above expected. Vegas was rolling well enough that maybe they could have won with simply average-to-good goaltending, but they actually got great goaltending.

Vasy also gave Tampa clearly elite goaltending on their runs. He posted a really-damn-good .927 on the 1st Cup run and then a bonkers .937 on the 2nd Cup run (securing the Conn Smythe). Could Tampa have won one of them (or even both) with him just being average-to-good? Maybe. But they didn't. He was excellent. His lowest single-series SV% in the 8 rounds on the two Cup runs was .911 and that was in the Final against Dallas. He was .929 or better in the other 7 rounds. He was unbelievably good for their Cup years. In 2021/22 he wasn't as good. He was .897 against the Leafs (although I think that number looks worse than his actual play) and .905 against the Avs (mainly due to a really shaky first 2 games). The Bolts couldn't dig out of the 0-2 hole and lost their first series in 3 years.

You have to be an unbelievably dominant team to win a Cup with a simply average goaltending performance in the playoffs. And simply average (or below average) goaltending has been the undoing of significantly more dominant teams than there are teams who overcome it.

 

[Wovenhand1976]

Otto Stenberg scored twice for Frölunda tonight. Pre-season game, but nevertheless

 

[Mike Liut]

Otto Stenberg scored twice for Frölunda tonight. Pre-season game, but nevertheless

we are going to look back at this draft in 3 years and realize it was a turning point in Blues history after we win the cup.

 

[joe galiba]

we are going to look back at this draft in 3 years and realize it was a turning point in Blues history after we win the cup.

Let me correct this
3 consecutive cups

 

[Majorityof1]

we are going to look back at this draft in 3 years and realize it was a turning point in Blues history after we win the cup.

It will actually be the 2020 draft. The great Leap as it will come to be known will happen when Leo Loof, Matt Kessel, Tanner Dickinson, Dylan Peterson and Noah Cranley all take amazing strides over this season and join the team next year as unquestionable top 5 players in their positions, creating a 50 year dynasty the like the world has never seen, as theyse players seem to never age, playing and dominating into their late 70s.

I mean if you are going to make up some bullshit wish fulfillment, might as well make it crazy as possible.

This draft isn't some mystical turning point. Its a good strep. But we didn't draft McDavid and Draisaitl here. We need to keep drafting well and making good decision. You don't creat a championship team in a single draft. There is no mythical turning point. It takes a lot more than that to win a cup.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

we are going to look back at this draft in 3 years and realize it was a turning point in Blues history after we win the cup.

Is pretty easy to have a good future after picking 3 in the first when you still have multiple good under 25 players and prospects in the pipeline. Without players/prospects like Kyrou, Thomas, and Snuggerud (and maybe even Bolduc) we would have a much steeper hill to climb even with Dvorsky, Stenberg, and Lindstein in the first round this year.

 

[Mike Liut]

Is pretty easy to have a good future after picking 3 in the first when you still have multiple good under 25 players and prospects in the pipeline. Without players/prospects like Kyrou, Thomas, and Snuggerud (and maybe even Bolduc) we would have a much steeper hill to climb even with Dvorsky, Stenberg, and Lindstein in the first round this year.

just a small correction on your post…. There’s no maybe with Bolduc. He’s a stud.

 

[Frenzy31]

Is pretty easy to have a good future after picking 3 in the first when you still have multiple good under 25 players and prospects in the pipeline. Without players/prospects like Kyrou, Thomas, and Snuggerud (and maybe even Bolduc) we would have a much steeper hill to climb even with Dvorsky, Stenberg, and Lindstein in the first round this year.

But the isn't the players in the system, it is the position of those players. We lack top pairing dman/men in the system. Lots of 4-7 types, but nothing in the top pairing. Maybe just Maybe Buchinger/Linstein hits and becomes a #3. But that lack of difference maker on d is going to hurt.

As D prospects take longer to develop, that could bite us.

 

[Mike Liut]

But the isn't the players in the system, it is the position of those players. We lack top pairing dman/men in the system. Lots of 4-7 types, but nothing in the top pairing. Maybe just Maybe Buchinger/Linstein hits and becomes a #3. But that lack of difference maker on d is going to hurt.

As D prospects take longer to develop, that could bite us.

We have the assets to make a move when the time comes.

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

Stenberg scored twice as mentioned, but cant find any video.

 

[Brian39]

It will actually be the 2020 draft. The great Leap as it will come to be known will happen when Leo Loof, Matt Kessel, Tanner Dickinson, Dylan Peterson and Noah Cranley all take amazing strides over this season and join the team next year as unquestionable top 5 players in their positions, creating a 50 year dynasty the like the world has never seen, as theyse players seem to never age, playing and dominating into their late 70s.

I mean if you are going to make up some bullshit wish fulfillment, might as well make it crazy as possible.

This draft isn't some mystical turning point. Its a good strep. But we didn't draft McDavid and Draisaitl here. We need to keep drafting well and making good decision. You don't creat a championship team in a single draft. There is no mythical turning point. It takes a lot more than that to win a cup.

Saying that one draft will go down as the turning point is a hell of a lot different than saying that one draft is solely responsible for a Cup. I think a draft can absolutely be a turning point as the foundation for a Cup winner.

Look at the Stars. The 2017 draft was a clear turning point to make that franchise into a what they are today. They have a real chance at a Cup and it is based on the core they built with an incredible draft. Their first 3 picks that year were Heiskanen, Oettinger, and Robertson. That's their #1D, their top 10 goalie and their elite scoring winger. Is that core enough to win a Cup without any other great players? Of course not. But they are the foundation of what that team will be over the next 5+ years.

 

[Majorityof1]

Saying that one draft will go down as the turning point is a hell of a lot different than saying that one draft is solely responsible for a Cup. I think a draft can absolutely be a turning point as the foundation for a Cup winner.

Look at the Stars. The 2017 draft was a clear turning point to make that franchise into a what they are today. They have a real chance at a Cup and it is based on the core they built with an incredible draft. Their first 3 picks that year were Heiskanen, Oettinger, and Robertson. That's their #1D, their top 10 goalie and their elite scoring winger. Is that core enough to win a Cup without any other great players? Of course not. But they are the foundation of what that team will be over the next 5+ years.

Yea, but it is doubtful that our draft turns out well. We did not get a #1D or a player likely to reach Robertson's level.

And it took a hell of a longer than 3 years for Dallas to get there. 2020 was great for them, but neither Robertson nor Oettinger played. So you can't credit 2017 for that success. Were people saying in 2021 that 2017 was a turning point? They missed the playoffs that year. So saying our most likely lesser draft will lead us to a cup in 3 years is patently ridiculous.

That doesn't even mention all the important pieces to they had prior to the draft (Hintz and Benn) aand the pieces they have added after (Suter, PAvelski, Duchene, Wyatt Johnson, Domi). 2017 is only a turning point if you can build on it.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Stenberg scored twice as mentioned, but cant find any video.

Love, Love, LOVE that highlight! Lindstein to me has skills to be a quality top pair defenseman, but the question has been whether he has the offensive instincts to do it. He can at time appear to lack confidence in his offense and just make safe play to get rid of puck rather than looking to create scoring chance. Seeing him jump into play and take the puck around defender and to the net is the kind of play that suggests there is untapped potential there.

 

[stl76]

Wow…impressive play by Lindstein there.

 

[DatDude44]

just a small correction on your post…. There’s no maybe with Bolduc. He’s a stud.

Relax