Prospect Info: Blues 2023-2024 Prospect Thread

[Celtic Note]

It is really 2 in the top 30. Which is great. Last time we had this was Kyrou and Thomas

Or better yet, 2 in the top 25.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Or better yet, 2 in the top 25.

Well, when your team is not a playoff team, if you don’t have multiple high ranking prospects things are pretty dismal. I’m grateful the Blues have a stable of young guys to give us hope for brighter days ahead.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Well, when your team is not a playoff team, if you don’t have multiple high ranking prospects things are pretty dismal. I’m grateful the Blues have a stable of young guys to give us hope for brighter days ahead.

Hofer made honorable mention among goalies. So not one of top 10 goalie prospects. How we rated him as 3rd best over all these talented wingers is beyond me.

 

[Majorityof1]

Hofer made honorable mention among goalies. So not one of top 10 goalie prospects. How we rated him as 3rd best over all these talented wingers is beyond me.

I mean why bother voting? Let's just wait for wheelers prospect pool rankings. He ranks the teams best prospects then and he is apparently gospel, so.....

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I mean why bother voting? Let's just wait for wheelers prospect pool rankings. He ranks the teams best prospects then and he is apparently gospel, so.....

So defensive. Just showing that guy hasn’t consensus top goalie prospect so isn’t thought as likely to be elite starter. Which I think is right. I think he can be solid starter. But how is that as good as sure fire star like stenberg?

 

[Majorityof1]

So defensive. Just showing that guy hasn’t consensus top goalie prospect so isn’t thought as likely to be elite starter. Which I think is right. I think he can be solid starter. But how is that as good as sure fire star like stenberg?

I thought you just said on another thread to pump brakes on Stenberg as a 3rd line floor. Now he is a sure fire star?

You are voting for Neigbours because he is NHL ready and got a cup of coffee last year, but ignoring hofer being our NHL backup and how he outplayed Binner last year for a stretch.

A lot if really good posters voted for Hofer at 3. I just think their decision is owed a little more discussion if you disagree with it than an off-handed appeal to authority.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I thought you just said on another thread to pump brakes on Stenberg as a 3rd line floor. Now he is a sure fire star?

You are voting for Neigbours because he is NHL ready and got a cup of coffee last year, but ignoring hofer being our NHL backup and how he outplayed Binner last year for a stretch.

A lot if really good posters voted for Hofer at 3. I just think their decision is owed a little more discussion if you disagree with it than an off-handed appeal to authority.

I was just pumping your tires on stenberg in this thread. thought you would get kick out of it.

My point on hofer isn’t that the posters are wrong about his projection. He is backup ready now and I think can be a starter. Some sharp posters voted for him. My point is that what we all think he will be isn’t as valuable as what we all think the forwards will be. And that is the discussion I think would be interesting to have, and we are at some level, the value of 15th best goalie versus quality 2nd line winger.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Interesting article on Snuggerud’s off-season training, in particular, his skating.
Jimmy Snuggerud returns to Gophers hockey with lofty goals

Sounds like the interviews were done right before the draft.

 

[Brian39]

I'm a little bit late to the conversation about the Wheeler rankings, but I did want to discuss them because I was excited for them to come out. A long post is incoming, but the main takeaway is that I think he'd have us as a top 10 prospect pool based on these rankings.

One thing that hasn't been discussed yet is that he breaks this current list into tiers. His top tier is just Bedard, his 2nd tier is just the guys ranked 2-7, and then his next tier is the prospects ranked 8-29. He goes on to say that tier 4 is 30-50, but that he considered each of the 77 honorable mentions for that tier and that the reader can consider tier 4 as prospects ranked 30-127. I think getting inside his top 30 is the line of demarcation for what he considers an A prospect with a whole lot of fuzziness after that.

I'm extremely pleased to have two guys in his top 3 tiers given our draft location over the last few years. We are 1 of just 8 teams with at least 2 prospects in his top 3 tiers. Chicago has 4 such prospects while Anaheim and Buffalo each have 3. We join Philly, Columbus, New Jersey, and Montreal with two such prospects. Those 7 other teams all went through a hell of a lot more pain than we did to get to this point. Here is the list of teams sorted first by total number of top end prospects and then sorted based on the ranking of the team's top prospect:

Chicago: Bedard (tier 1 #1), Moore (tier 3 #17), Korchinski (tier 3 #22), and Reichel (tier 3 #29)

Anaheim: Carlsson (tier 2 #4), Mintyukov (tier 3 #26), and Zellweger (tier 3 #29)

Buffalo: Benson (tier 3 #12), Savoie (tier 3 #24), Kulich (tier 3 #25)

Philly: Michkov (tier 2 #2) and Gauthier (tier 3 #13)

Columbus: Fantilli (tier 2 #3) and Jiricek (tier 3 #9)

New Jersey: L Hughes (tier 2 #7) and Nemec (tier 3 #8)

St. Louis: Dvorsky (tier 3 #16) and Snuggy (tier 3 #23)

Montreal: Reinbacher (tier 3 #20) and Hutson (tier 3 #27)

I think we can safely assume that he would rank all of Chicago, Philly, Columbus and New Jersey ahead of our complete prospect pool based on the strength of their top two prospects. Each has at least one guy from a tier above Dvorsky and their 2nd prospect is higher than Snuggy. I also think it is a safe bet that Anaheim will be ahead of us since their top prospect is in tier 2 and they have three prospects in his top 29 instead of two. Truly elite talent weighs heavily.

Given where these teams have picked in the last 3 drafts, this should be no surprise. Getting in to the top 5 prospect pools wasn't realistic once we didn't win the draft lottery.

But after that, our prospect pool starts to stack up nicely.

San Jose should edge us out. Smith is a tier 2 guy, Eklund is #35 and they had 5 honorable mentions. Snuggy being ahead of Eklund doesn't bridge the gap between Smith vs Dvorsky and their stregth in depth. Let's pencil them in ahead of us even though I don't look at their current pool and feel a ton of envy. If Dvorsky exceeds expectations and/or Smith falls short, then a look back very well could favor our current group.

Buffalo also probably edges us out based on their top 3 prospects. Benson edged out Dvorsky on Wheeler's list and then they have two additional tier 3 guys (#24 and #25). They only have 2 more honorable mentions, but I think the strength of their top 3 vs our top 3 will outweigh the edge we have from 4-6. I prefer Dvorsky to Benson as a prospect, but we're talking about Wheeler's ranking here. Let's pencil in Buffalo ahead of us even though I also don't have envy looking at this group.

That's 7 teams penciled in ahead of us. I think we are competing with Montreal, Arizona, and Detroit to snag a spot in the 8-10 range.

I think we'd be ahead of Montreal. 16 and 23 vs 20 and 27 is in our favor. Neither of us have a guy in the 30-50 range and we each have 4 honorable mentions. It will be close, but I'd guess we get the edge.

It would be close with Arizona (although I'd guess they beat us). Cooley is a tier 2 prospect and they have the edge there. But Snuggy is ahead of their 2nd best guy (Guenther at #33) and they have 3 honorable mentions vs our 4. Hrabel making the top 10 goalie prospect list might push them over the top, but I think our #2-6 is stronger than theirs even when you include goalies. Enough to bridge the Cooley/Dvorsky gap? Maybe not, but I think it will be fairly close.

It would be close with Detroit. Detroit has Edvinsson (#11) ahead of Dvorsky, but no one else in the top 3 tiers. They have two guys 30-50 (#31 Kasper and #42 Sandin Pellikka) and 3 honorable mentions. They have a couple goalie prospects Wheeler likes that could push them over the top. But I think Snuggy being in the tier above Kasper and Sandin Pellikka could put us over the top of them.

After this group, we appear to have a clear edge over everyone else. I would be extremely surprised if any of the following teams are ahead of us.

We should top the Kings. While Clarke is ranked higher than Dvorsky, they don't have anyone else in the top 50 and only 3 honorable mentions. Our 2-6 is much better than theirs and should well outweigh the 6 spot gap between Clarke and Dvorsky. We should top the Kraken. Wright is 2 spots up on Dvorsky, but Snuggy is 15 spots up on their 2nd best (Sale at #38). They have 3 honorable mentions vs our 4. We should top the Rangers. Perreault is just 1 spot up on Dvorsky and Snuggy is 25 spots up on their 2nd best (Othmann at #48). They have just 1 honorable mention.

That's all the teams with a prospect ranked above Dvorsky that could theoretically get the edge with their #1 prospect. Nashville, Washington, and Dallas are the only other teams with a tier 3 prospect. Dvorsky is ranked higher than each of their best prospects and Snuggy is ranked way higher than their 2nd best prospect. We also have more honorable mentions than these 3 teams. No way any of them are ahead of us.

All in all, the absolute worst our prospect pool should be ranked is 11 and I don't see a case for Montreal being ahead of us in this range. I think we're in the 8-10 range and I would bet 10th if I had to put money on it. All things considered, I'm thrilled with that. Wheeler had us 19th back in January and 24th in 2022. Jumping into the top 10 based on a single trade deadline and draft in the organization's first non-playoff season in 5 years is fantastic when you consider that we didn't have a top 5 pick.

 

[PJJJP]

I'm a little bit late to the conversation about the Wheeler rankings, but I did want to discuss them because I was excited for them to come out. A long post is incoming, but the main takeaway is that I think he'd have us as a top 10 prospect pool based on these rankings.

One thing that hasn't been discussed yet is that he breaks this current list into tiers. His top tier is just Bedard, his 2nd tier is just the guys ranked 2-7, and then his next tier is the prospects ranked 8-29. He goes on to say that tier 4 is 30-50, but that he considered each of the 77 honorable mentions for that tier and that the reader can consider tier 4 as prospects ranked 30-127. I think getting inside his top 30 is the line of demarcation for what he considers an A prospect with a whole lot of fuzziness after that.

I'm extremely pleased to have two guys in his top 3 tiers given our draft location over the last few years. We are 1 of just 8 teams with at least 2 prospects in his top 3 tiers. Chicago has 4 such prospects while Anaheim and Buffalo each have 3. We join Philly, Columbus, New Jersey, and Montreal with two such prospects. Those 7 other teams all went through a hell of a lot more pain than we did to get to this point. Here is the list of teams sorted first by total number of top end prospects and then sorted based on the ranking of the team's top prospect:

Chicago: Bedard (tier 1 #1), Moore (tier 3 #17), Korchinski (tier 3 #22), and Reichel (tier 3 #29)

Anaheim: Carlsson (tier 2 #4), Mintyukov (tier 3 #26), and Zellweger (tier 3 #29)

Buffalo: Benson (tier 3 #12), Savoie (tier 3 #24), Kulich (tier 3 #25)

Philly: Michkov (tier 2 #2) and Gauthier (tier 3 #13)

Columbus: Fantilli (tier 2 #3) and Jiricek (tier 3 #9)

New Jersey: L Hughes (tier 2 #7) and Nemec (tier 3 #8)

St. Louis: Dvorsky (tier 3 #16) and Snuggy (tier 3 #23)

Montreal: Reinbacher (tier 3 #20) and Hutson (tier 3 #27)

I think we can safely assume that he would rank all of Chicago, Philly, Columbus and New Jersey ahead of our complete prospect pool based on the strength of their top two prospects. Each has at least one guy from a tier above Dvorsky and their 2nd prospect is higher than Snuggy. I also think it is a safe bet that Anaheim will be ahead of us since their top prospect is in tier 2 and they have three prospects in his top 29 instead of two. Truly elite talent weighs heavily.

Given where these teams have picked in the last 3 drafts, this should be no surprise. Getting in to the top 5 prospect pools wasn't realistic once we didn't win the draft lottery.

But after that, our prospect pool starts to stack up nicely.

San Jose should edge us out. Smith is a tier 2 guy, Eklund is #35 and they had 5 honorable mentions. Snuggy being ahead of Eklund doesn't bridge the gap between Smith vs Dvorsky and their stregth in depth. Let's pencil them in ahead of us even though I don't look at their current pool and feel a ton of envy. If Dvorsky exceeds expectations and/or Smith falls short, then a look back very well could favor our current group.

Buffalo also probably edges us out based on their top 3 prospects. Benson edged out Dvorsky on Wheeler's list and then they have two additional tier 3 guys (#24 and #25). They only have 2 more honorable mentions, but I think the strength of their top 3 vs our top 3 will outweigh the edge we have from 4-6. I prefer Dvorsky to Benson as a prospect, but we're talking about Wheeler's ranking here. Let's pencil in Buffalo ahead of us even though I also don't have envy looking at this group.

That's 7 teams penciled in ahead of us. I think we are competing with Montreal, Arizona, and Detroit to snag a spot in the 8-10 range.

I think we'd be ahead of Montreal. 16 and 23 vs 20 and 27 is in our favor. Neither of us have a guy in the 30-50 range and we each have 4 honorable mentions. It will be close, but I'd guess we get the edge.

It would be close with Arizona (although I'd guess they beat us). Cooley is a tier 2 prospect and they have the edge there. But Snuggy is ahead of their 2nd best guy (Guenther at #33) and they have 3 honorable mentions vs our 4. Hrabel making the top 10 goalie prospect list might push them over the top, but I think our #2-6 is stronger than theirs even when you include goalies. Enough to bridge the Cooley/Dvorsky gap? Maybe not, but I think it will be fairly close.

It would be close with Detroit. Detroit has Edvinsson (#11) ahead of Dvorsky, but no one else in the top 3 tiers. They have two guys 30-50 (#31 Kasper and #42 Sandin Pellikka) and 3 honorable mentions. They have a couple goalie prospects Wheeler likes that could push them over the top. But I think Snuggy being in the tier above Kasper and Sandin Pellikka could put us over the top of them.

After this group, we appear to have a clear edge over everyone else. I would be extremely surprised if any of the following teams are ahead of us.

We should top the Kings. While Clarke is ranked higher than Dvorsky, they don't have anyone else in the top 50 and only 3 honorable mentions. Our 2-6 is much better than theirs and should well outweigh the 6 spot gap between Clarke and Dvorsky. We should top the Kraken. Wright is 2 spots up on Dvorsky, but Snuggy is 15 spots up on their 2nd best (Sale at #38). They have 3 honorable mentions vs our 4. We should top the Rangers. Perreault is just 1 spot up on Dvorsky and Snuggy is 25 spots up on their 2nd best (Othmann at #48). They have just 1 honorable mention.

That's all the teams with a prospect ranked above Dvorsky that could theoretically get the edge with their #1 prospect. Nashville, Washington, and Dallas are the only other teams with a tier 3 prospect. Dvorsky is ranked higher than each of their best prospects and Snuggy is ranked way higher than their 2nd best prospect. We also have more honorable mentions than these 3 teams. No way any of them are ahead of us.

All in all, the absolute worst our prospect pool should be ranked is 11 and I don't see a case for Montreal being ahead of us in this range. I think we're in the 8-10 range and I would bet 10th if I had to put money on it. All things considered, I'm thrilled with that. Wheeler had us 19th back in January and 24th in 2022. Jumping into the top 10 based on a single trade deadline and draft in the organization's first non-playoff season in 5 years is fantastic when you consider that we didn't have a top 5 pick.

Also gotta include the Wild in there. Wheeler had them ranked as the best prospect pool in February.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Also gotta include the Wild in there. Wheeler had them ranked as the best prospect pool in February.

am i the only one who though that was insane?

 

[Brian39]

Also gotta include the Wild in there. Wheeler had them ranked as the best prospect pool in February.

You're right, but I have a hard time guessing where he will land with them. I didn't include them because I was just going off this most recent list and not looking at the February list. Their prospects fell in the rankings since February.

Rossi went from #19 (and in tier 3) in February to #30 (just outside tier 3)

Ohgren and Yurov went from #28 and #29 to #40 and #47.

Faber fell from #30 to being an honorable mention.

This makes sense since there was a good draft, but their 2023 1st rounder didn't make the cut on this top 127 prospect ranking, so while a bunch of other teams added multiple needle-moving prospects they simply sat and watched their good prospects slide down the list.

Wallstedt will likely be the equalizer since Wheeler is head-over-heels in love with him. He still has him ranked as the top goalie prospect in the world, so that should help a lot. But their big advantage (number of good prospects) was definitely cut into in this draft.

am i the only one who though tthat was insane?

He loves loves loves Wallstedt. And then beyond that, he loves that they have a bunch of good prospects. I get ranking them high, but I wouldn't have had them 1st. I think it was mainly the result of a couple consecutive lackluster drafts without oodles of elite talent.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

You're right, but I have a hard time guessing where he will land with them. I didn't include them because I was just going off this most recent list and not looking at the February list. Their prospects fell in the rankings since February.

Rossi went from #19 (and in tier 3) in February to #30 (just outside tier 3)

Ohgren and Yurov went from #28 and #29 to #40 and #47.

Faber fell from #30 to being an honorable mention.

This makes sense since there was a good draft, but their 2023 1st rounder didn't make the cut on this top 127 prospect ranking, so while a bunch of other teams added multiple needle-moving prospects they simply sat and watched their good prospects slide down the list.

Wallstedt will likely be the equalizer since Wheeler is head-over-heels in love with him. He still has him ranked as the top goalie prospect in the world, so that should help a lot. But their big advantage (number of good prospects) was definitely cut into in this draft.


He loves loves loves Wallstedt. And then beyond that, he loves that they have a bunch of good prospects. I get ranking them high, but I wouldn't have had them 1st. I think it was mainly the result of a couple consecutive lackluster drafts without oodles of elite talent.

other than wally, it seems like they have lots of depth guys. like detroit. i just don't see them on level of chicago or anaheim or columbus or jersey. i don't think they even stack up with us and we are towards back of top 10.

 

[Brian39]

other than wally, it seems like they have lots of depth guys. like detroit. i just don't see them on level of chicago or anaheim or columbus or jersey. i don't think they even stack up with us and we are towards back of top 10.

Yeah, I think that it was simply 'easier' to lean more toward quantity than quality when there is glaringly less elite talent up at the top. The 2023 draft just added 5 guys ranked higher than Cooley (who was #1 in February) and another 7 guys ranked ahead of Rossi. 6 of the teams from the February top 10 just snagged at least one prospect who is currently ranked ahead of Rossi.

Worth noting that the February rankings hurt teams that have a stud rookie make the team. Bedard is going to be off this list by February. So will L Hughes. I bet at least 3 of Fantilli, Carlsso, Smith, and Jiricek will too. Every year a handful of elite prospects graduate by February, which gives more weight towards depth than elite talent because there are simply fewer A+ prospects in February than there are in August.

At the end of the day, I think a ton of Minny's ranking comes down to his view of Wallstedt, which I think is inflated. I really don't get Wheeler's insistence that Wallstedt is the clearcut best goalie prospect in the world. He's a very good goalie prospect, but I don't see the separation between him and the pack that Wheeler implies is there.

Wolf is a (just turned) 22 year old who just won back-to-back AHL goalie of the year awards and was named the AHL MVP. It is the first time the AHL has had a goalie MVP since 2004 and the first time ever that a goalie has won goalie of the year in back-to-back seasons. The only knock Wheeler has of him is size.

Levi is a 21 year old who just demolished the NCAA for 3 years and looked very solid in his brief NHL action down the stretch in Buffalo. Again, the only knock is size.

Askarov hasn't put it all together yet, but he has all the physical tools that Wallstedt has.

I really don't see the argument that Wallstedt is a clear tier ahead of these guys. I'm impressed by the video I've watched of him and his numbers are impressive given his youth in the league he's played in. But nothing jumps off the page to me as a clear cut above these other 3 stud prospects who have all taken wildly different (and hard to compare) development paths. I'm fine ranking him 1, but saying he is the clearcut 1 when these 3 prospects are also developing nicely is bizarre to me.

 

[Mike Liut]

I think in a year from now, our prospect pool will get way more recognition. We are flying under the radar right now.

 

[Brian39]

I think in a year from now, our prospect pool will get way more recognition. We are flying under the radar right now.

I think there is a very good chance of that happening by mid-season. A new season always comes with the graduation of a few top prospects that are the backbone of their teams' prospect pools, but we know for sure that our top two prospects won't be joining the NHL this year. Neighbours will probably graduate, but he isn't moving the needle a ton for our group.

Snuggy will have a ton of eyeballs on him again at MInnesota and will be a leader of team USA at the World Juniors.

Dvorsky will be a leader for Slovakia at the World Juniors.

I'd wager that both of Stenberg and Lindstein will make team Sweden at the World Juniors. When Steen is still consulting for Team Sweden and should be very familiar with these two guys. Both had success representing Sweden on U18 teams and have the talent to be there.

Bolduc and Dean are both very likely to be in the AHL on a team with some pretty decent talent around them. Maybe on the same line and hopefully being put into position to succeed. I could see one or both having an impressive first pro season.

I don't think it is a stretch at all to see one of our top two guys elevating their reputation while another one of our current 3-7 prospects elevates themselves into the conversation as being a top 40 prospect league-wide.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

If we end up with at least two 1st round picks next year, with one pick being in the top 15. I think we will have a consensus top 8 prospect pool, right where we need to be for a solid retool, considering some guys will start graduating that year as well.

 

[stl76]

Apparently Cooley may actually sign with AZ instead of heading back to UoM for his sophomore year:





Wonder how this would effect Jimmy the Snuggler...

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Apparently Cooley may actually sign with AZ instead of heading back to UoM for his sophomore year:





Wonder how this would effect Jimmy the Snuggler...

i'm actually excited for cooley to leave. if he was back he would be the man and snuggy the sidekick. now it's up to snuggy to step up and be the man. it's not like there won't be other talent there (moore, for example) but after several of their stars (and leaders) move on it should hopefully help snuggy's development.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah, Snuggs has a big opportunity. Is he truly an A prospect or more of a B+ guy. He has a chance to be a real driver.

 

[LGB]

I think this is probably good for his development although I’m a little nervous if he and Oliver Moore get paired together. If Moore’s IQ is the problem a lot of people think it is I don’t think that’s a great fit with Snuggy.

 

[stl76]

Was looking over 2023 combine results and was surprised to see Paul Fischer's name in the top 10 of several tests, including VO2 Max (ml/kg/min) and Wingspan:

2023 NHL Combine results: Top 10 prospects in every drill

The NHL Scouting Combine returned to Buffalo, with all 32 teams getting a final opportunity to assess this crop of big-league hopefuls before the 2023 NHL Draft in Nashville. Here is the top 10 in every drill.

www.sportsnet.ca

Not sure it really means anything, but thought it was interesting. Kind of crazy that a 6'1 guy has a 77.5 inch wingspan.

 

[Blueswin]

Hockey writers blues forwards

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[STL fan in MN]

Hockey writers blues forwards

MSN

www.msn.com

I can never get these msn links to work. Here’s the article on their actual website:
St. Louis Blues' 2023 Top 5 Forward Prospects

That said, I only skimmed it after reading the first sentence as it already had errors.

One of the most offensively dynamic forward prospects in the NHL, Zachary Bolduc lit his junior hockey league on fire this past season, scoring 55 goals and 110 points in 65 regular-season games for the Québec Remparts of the Québec Major Junior Hockey League (QMJHL).

Bolduc scored 50 goals, 110 pts in 61 games last season. The season before he scored 55 goals, 99 pts in 65 games. So they conflated the two seasons.

Assuming they’re in order, I’d obviously disagree with Bolduc at 1 and Dvorsky at 3 and Snuggerud at 5. Agree Neighbours isn’t among the top-5 though.

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

Something that's been eating at me lately--Is there a real chance Snuggerud doesn't sign with us? I just feel we're a year in with him and I don't know if I've definitively seen anything like "Yea I'll be there eventually". I know it's not abnormal but it would be nice to see. Drafting NCAA guys always worries me. I despise that rule.