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Blue Jays Discussion: Blue Jays fire manager Montoyo, Schneider takes over

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Morgs said:
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That's f***ed. It shouldn't be happening. Yea, we can be a little frustrated and sometimes pissed at some of his decision making but don't go and send hateful messages to his family. At the end of the day, this is just a game, not that important. I never once thought about going on Twitter and send his family hateful messages. That's beyond f***ed.
 
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Suntouchable13 said:
That's f***ed. It shouldn't be happening. Yea, we can be a little frustrated and sometimes pissed at some of his decision making but don't go and send hateful messages to his family. At the end of the day, this is just a game, not that important. I never once thought about going on Twitter and send his family hateful messages. That's beyond f***ed.
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That's crazy. I can't stand Montoyo but never once have I ever thought about sending anything negative online about him or his family. The problem with social media is exactly stuff like this. Lot's of crazy people out there.
 
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I think another thing that gets lost in regards to Montoyo and overall decisions is that you can’t manage to win every game in a 162 game season. The playoffs however are a different story.

even the best teams lose 60+ games every season

ultimately it’s about staying out of long losing streaks.

if you split the season into 9 game increment, and go 5-4 in all 18, 90 win season
 
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I sure hope Gurriel and Hernandez get back on track soon. I was expecting them to fall off the cliff in their 30s. It's a little too soon.
hockeywiz542 said:
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Good on Groshans. I know a lot of people worry about his power, but they must not have noticed he's only had like 600 at bats. Just over a single pro season, and we all know power tends to come last. The guy is still young and he's got the hitting part figured out. He'll get there.

That said, he'd probably be better used to acquire an outfield prospect or something. The infield is pretty much set at this point.
 
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trellaine201 said:
Adrian Ulises Hernandez: is he a prospect? His numbers look almost off the chart. 22 years old.
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Cases like him and Vasquez are always interesting. He'll mix in the fastball more often but it's still a meatball that is only meant to setup his wipe out change (which he throws 50% of the time). But his changeup also acts like a slider so its effectiveness against righties seems legit. He's in my top 30 but obviously the potential is limited due to the lack of projection and offerings. Still, can't knock the production to date.
 
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TGB said:
I sure hope Gurriel and Hernandez get back on track soon. I was expecting them to fall off the cliff in their 30s. It's a little too soon.

Good on Groshans. I know a lot of people worry about his power, but they must not have noticed he's only had like 600 at bats. Just over a single pro season, and we all know power tends to come last. The guy is still young and he's got the hitting part figured out. He'll get there.

That said, he'd probably be better used to acquire an outfield prospect or something. The infield is pretty much set at this point.
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Why would they fall off a cliff in their 30s? I don’t get it. Lots of good players are very good players well into their 30s. Some don’t even break out till they are 30. Like Joey Bats, EE. Gurriel’s brother is 10 years older than him and he still a very good player.
 
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Canada4Gold said:
Generally I think people do shit on Montoyo too much. The good decisions that turns out bad being a good example. Borucki coming back out for the 4th yesterday was the right call, 2 or 3 guys weren't available, Stripling if available wasn't going to go long because he pitched the day prior. With only 6 guys available you really needed an extra inning out of Borucki there if you could get it. But he gave up 2 runs and it was a disaster. To be fair I think some people said it was wrong before he shit the bed and I can stomach that criticism more. If a correct decision was made that works out badly and you shit on it after the fact because it didn't work then you're just being results biased and want someone to blame. If you call it a bad decision when the decision was made and shit on it after the fact then at least you're criticizing based on your opinion of the decision and not just the result. You're incorrect, but at least you're going about forming your opinion in the right way instead of being results orientated.

I try to make up my mind of Montoyo decisions when they happen, and only shit on decisions that don't work out that I thought were wrong at the time(there are still plenty of those). I tend to give passive aggressive remarks to bad decisions that do work out(just because it worked don't mean it wasn't bad). I also try to pick up for him for decisions that I think were correct that don't work out, the Borucki one being the example here.

I could still do better though. I gave Montoyo a ton of crap yesterday for his lineup, and not pinch hitting in a few spots when it turns out Jansen and Teo had hip issues. I've seen enough bad Montoyo lineup decisions that it's difficult to see something that appeared that stupid and hold off and assume it's because of some information that I'm not privy to, because often times it's just another horrible Montoyo lineup decision.
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Just picking out one of the posts, because Sportsnet actually did an article on the subject of the lineup

www.sportsnet.ca

How the Blue Jays approach workload and rest for position players and bullpen

Over the weekend, as the Toronto Blue Jays spaced out rest days for several of their key players, manager Charlie Montoyo outlined both the club’s approach and rationale in portioning out down time.
www.sportsnet.ca www.sportsnet.ca

Some of the decisions have been dictated by bumps and bruises.

If we could get a mix of new Tapia up to 2 strikes with old Tapia with two strikes (which he's shown flashes of the past week), we could actually get a decent player.

We are completely reworking what we are asking him to do, which is negatively contributing to everything.

As for Zimmer, keep in mind that management always said that he would have more of a defense/pinch runner role.
 
Suntouchable13 said:
Why would they fall off a cliff in their 30s? I don’t get it.
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Radically inconsistent players like Gurriel almost always end up fading much earlier than others. Happens all the time. It's wild how he can go from so good to so bad, sometimes on a day to day basis. I can see why Vladdy is struggling, but not Gurriel.

I can see Hernandez still doing all the things that made him struggle early on, but he's made so many adjustments he has managed to get good. The thing is, when you never really had any exceptional raw talent and you're just running entirely on raw youthful vigour and experience, it takes very little to knock you off stride. One slight loss in performance and he's back to the guy who hit some homers but mostly just struck out a lot.

We got lucky getting control of these guys in their prime, but I would be hesitant to extend them. They're not like Bautista at all who always demonstrated elite plate vision even when he got too old. MAYBE if you could get them at 1 or 2 years, but the won't be asking for that. They'll be shooting for 5, for sure.
 
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TGB said:
Radically inconsistent players like Gurriel almost always end up fading much earlier than others. Happens all the time. It's wild how he can go from so good to so bad, sometimes on a day to day basis. I can see why Vladdy is struggling, but not Gurriel.

I can see Hernandez still doing all the things that made him struggle early on, but he's made so many adjustments he has managed to get good. The thing is, when you never really had any exceptional raw talent and you're just running entirely on raw youthful vigour and experience, it takes very little to knock you off stride. One slight loss in performance and he's back to the guy who hit some homers but mostly just struck out a lot.

We got lucky getting control of these guys in their prime, but I would be hesitant to extend them. They're not like Bautista at all who always demonstrated elite plate vision even when he got too old. MAYBE if you could get them at 1 or 2 years, but the won't be asking for that. They'll be shooting for 5, for sure.
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Thanks for the explanation.

Bjindaho said:
Just picking out one of the posts, because Sportsnet actually did an article on the subject of the lineup

www.sportsnet.ca

How the Blue Jays approach workload and rest for position players and bullpen

Over the weekend, as the Toronto Blue Jays spaced out rest days for several of their key players, manager Charlie Montoyo outlined both the club’s approach and rationale in portioning out down time.
www.sportsnet.ca www.sportsnet.ca

Some of the decisions have been dictated by bumps and bruises.

If we could get a mix of new Tapia up to 2 strikes with old Tapia with two strikes (which he's shown flashes of the past week), we could actually get a decent player.

We are completely reworking what we are asking him to do, which is negatively contributing to everything.

As for Zimmer, keep in mind that management always said that he would have more of a defense/pinch runner role.
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Zimmer is very valuable defensively without even taking a look at the numbers ( I seriously don't know his defensive metrics) that it would be a shame to ever cut him loose.
 
TMLeafer said:
JA Happ retires.
www.tsn.ca

Former Jays P Happ announces retirement - TSN.ca

Veteran lefty JA Happ has announced his retirement after 15 seasons in the Major Leagues. The 39-year-old announced his decision on the Heart Strong Podcast with Jessica Lindberg.
www.tsn.ca www.tsn.ca
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One of my favourites during his 2nd Jays stint. From 2015-2020 his fastball's pitch value was 5th behind Scherzer, Cole, Verlander, and DeGrom.
 
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Cease and Graveman on the designated list for CHW. This is strange because Cease should not be eligible having pitched on Sunday.
 
TGB said:
Radically inconsistent players like Gurriel almost always end up fading much earlier than others. Happens all the time. It's wild how he can go from so good to so bad, sometimes on a day to day basis. I can see why Vladdy is struggling, but not Gurriel.

I can see Hernandez still doing all the things that made him struggle early on, but he's made so many adjustments he has managed to get good. The thing is, when you never really had any exceptional raw talent and you're just running entirely on raw youthful vigour and experience, it takes very little to knock you off stride. One slight loss in performance and he's back to the guy who hit some homers but mostly just struck out a lot.

We got lucky getting control of these guys in their prime, but I would be hesitant to extend them. They're not like Bautista at all who always demonstrated elite plate vision even when he got too old. MAYBE if you could get them at 1 or 2 years, but the won't be asking for that. They'll be shooting for 5, for sure.
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The thing about Teoscar is he was known as a fringe 5 tool athlete with plus speed when he was the lanky CF in the Astros' farm system. There was average power but the expectation was that he had potential to be a 20-20 guy. I think it's pretty clear that the raw athleticism has always been there, but by adding muscle mass he has since lost a step and instead untapped his immense power potential. Yes we're talking immense. Like top 10 percentile in barrels and average exit velocity since he became a regular starter in 2018. You don't get to that level by running entirely on raw youthful vigour.

He's been terrible this year but we can almost certainly attribute his oblique injury to that. The batted ball profile is a complete 180 from what he's been as a player in the majors and it's not something we should expect moving forward.
 
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Bjindaho said:
In a perfect world, Biggio plays more OF, and we bring up Groshans to cover 3B/2B/SS. He could also DH on days where he isn't in the lineup.
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This could create a domino effect, where Morris gets called up to AAA (he's earned it), and Barger could get a call to AA.
 
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