Blow it up?

[EspenK]

That's a fairly feeble jab, particularly because if we derive a natural conclusion from your statement, we must condemn this offseason.

Howson was criticized for banking too much on young players breaking through. Particularly in his early days, that was due to the complete lack of depth and NHL talent in the system, which is no longer the case.

A huge amount of pressure was placed coming into this year on Jenner securing a roster spot, Johansen breaking through, Calvert rebounding, and Atkinson continuing to progress. This team was 25th in goals scored last year, yet the only forward signed was someone who wouldn't be available for months and whose career high in points trails Antoine Vermette's and Kristian Huselius'.



It's tough to listen to the stuff about "flexibility" when the likely return in the event of a Gaborik trade would be a package, and when acquiring a package is actually impossible because the team sits at 49/50 contracts.

No one has suggested going all in this year. Picking up cheap depth scoring wouldn't be going all in, it would be hedging to allow the best developmental scenario for the youngsters. If Johansen didn't break through, he could be sent down without touching waivers. If Jenner was in over his head, he could be sent down. Or if Blake Comeau didn't rebound, or if someone's game went in the toilet, it wouldn't be catastrophic.



I spoke up in favor of Hedberg back when. I know from my Atlanta fan folks that he's an enormously popular teammate and an extremely dedicated professional, and there's been nary a peep to contradict that since he was a Thrasher.

The contract thing is a non-issue. If a package for Gabby hinged on that I'm sure the other team would take a Steve Delisle-type or 2 to make the deal work.

I am in agreement that one of the scorers would have been nice but I still think they weren't "gritty" enough.

 

[CapnCornelius]

That's a fairly feeble jab, particularly because if we derive a natural conclusion from your statement, we must condemn this offseason.

Howson was criticized for banking too much on young players breaking through. Particularly in his early days, that was due to the complete lack of depth and NHL talent in the system, which is no longer the case.

And yet, you are arguing...that the Jackets should have added NHL level talent because there isn't enough or good enough on the team? After Jarmo went out and acquired Gabby, Horton and even a depth forward in Jack Skille. That means nearly a fourth of the group of forwards are a result of addition by Jarmo since his arrival. And the AHL is not stocked with forward talent. The best forward talent not presently on the team is the forward talent Jarmo drafted in June.

A huge amount of pressure was placed coming into this year on Jenner securing a roster spot, Johansen breaking through, Calvert rebounding, and Atkinson continuing to progress. This team was 25th in goals scored last year, yet the only forward signed was someone who wouldn't be available for months and whose career high in points trails Antoine Vermette's and Kristian Huselius'.

The last point proves primarily that statistical anomalies happen. Look at their average points over their career and you get a different picture. You also seem to be forgetting that the

It's tough to listen to the stuff about "flexibility" when the likely return in the event of a Gaborik trade would be a package, and when acquiring a package is actually impossible because the team sits at 49/50 contracts.

"Jarmo failed because he didn't acquire another NHL-level talent." "We can't have more NHL talent because of the number of contracts!!" I don't know why you assume Gaborik will get a package. He's likely to be a draft pick deal.

No one has suggested going all in this year. Picking up cheap depth scoring wouldn't be going all in, it would be hedging to allow the best developmental scenario for the youngsters. If Johansen didn't break through, he could be sent down without touching waivers. If Jenner was in over his head, he could be sent down. Or if Blake Comeau didn't rebound, or if someone's game went in the toilet, it wouldn't be catastrophic.

One of your shining examples of who Jarmo should have picked up was Pierre-Marc Bouchard. A guy who just cleared waivers.

http://www.lighthousehockey.com/201...c-bouchard-clears-waivers-ryan-strome-phoenix

Look at where the Jackets are in the standings at this very moment and tell my why Jarmo's strategy is such a grand failure and yet Scott Howson, whose teams were usually out of the playoffs by December, should have been retained.

Jarmo was smart to take the risk on a season where we are not likely to go beyond the first round of the playoffs if we somehow get in. By saving another $1 million contract which would have had little impact, he now has the ability at the deadline to get a substantial asset with $5,000,000 in cap space. And, if it doesn't works, he'll move a couple guys for things that help us in the long term.

 

[Viqsi]

Look at where the Jackets are in the standings at this very moment and tell my why Jarmo's strategy is such a grand failure and yet Scott Howson, whose teams were usually out of the playoffs by December, should have been retained.

I dunno. It's really hard to argue for a shakily-supported false dichotomy, especially when it's one imposed upon you by your debate opponent. I don't think you're going to get a good answer to this one.

There are some reasons to potentially worry about how Jarmo is doing. There are some reasons to be impressed and happy with the job Howson did. That's it. Going further than that is absurd.

 

[Nordique]

Jarmo was smart to take the risk on a season where we are not likely to go beyond the first round of the playoffs if we somehow get in. By saving another $1 million contract which would have had little impact, he now has the ability at the deadline to get a substantial asset with $5,000,000 in cap space. And, if it doesn't works, he'll move a couple guys for things that help us in the long term.

You can shine any shade of light on this situation and make Jarmo look like a fool or a genius. Likewise, I could spend the next hour at my desk compiling data that would support the premise that Howson is a draft day god.

Instead I'll make a couple rational assertions and leave it at that.

Howson had a vision for this team that failed to produce results, but did ensure a reasonable chance of future success through draft pick accumulation and management.

Jarmo's tenure is far too immature to judge at this time.

I think Scott Howson will be a great GM in the NHL one day. I hope Jarmo is a great GM now.

 

[Mayor Bee]

And yet, you are arguing...that the Jackets should have added NHL level talent because there isn't enough or good enough on the team? After Jarmo went out and acquired Gabby, Horton and even a depth forward in Jack Skille. That means nearly a fourth of the group of forwards are a result of addition by Jarmo since his arrival.

You forgot Blake Comeau.

And the AHL is not stocked with forward talent. The best forward talent not presently on the team is the forward talent Jarmo drafted in June.

That's extremely debatable. If we're talking highest ceiling only, that's still debatable.

Of course, by referring to "not presently on the team", you've managed to exclude Johansen and Jenner (both under age 22), neither of whom would have to clear waivers.

The last point proves primarily that statistical anomalies happen. Look at their average points over their career and you get a different picture. You also seem to be forgetting that the

Horton = 0.68 points per game
Huselius = 0.68 points per game

Vermette is down to 0.53, which is skewed from his awful 2011-12 campaign that saw him traded to Phoenix.

"Jarmo failed because he didn't acquire another NHL-level talent." "We can't have more NHL talent because of the number of contracts!!" I don't know why you assume Gaborik will get a package. He's likely to be a draft pick deal.

I don't remember saying "failed" or anything close to that.

One of your shining examples of who Jarmo should have picked up was Pierre-Marc Bouchard. A guy who just cleared waivers.

http://www.lighthousehockey.com/201...c-bouchard-clears-waivers-ryan-strome-phoenix

One year, $2 million for a guy who's piled up points when healthy. NYI took a calculated and very minor gamble, it didn't work, oh well.

Look at where the Jackets are in the standings at this very moment and tell my why Jarmo's strategy is such a grand failure and yet Scott Howson, whose teams were usually out of the playoffs by December, should have been retained.

Gaborik = out of the lineup, had 5 goals when he went down
Horton = has not played
Comeau = 2 goals and 4 assists in 32 games
Skille = 2 goals, bouncing between the AHL and press box

That's 9 goals out of 82. And since no defenseman or goalie on the roster was acquired by the current regime, we can try to figure out how many goals have been prevented by Gaborik, Comeau, and Skille...

 

[major major]

If it takes this long after Howson has gone to reach judgment on his legacy, than what's the use of arguments for or against Jarmo after less than a year? Little authoritative can be said yet.

 

[pete goegan]

If it takes this long after Howson has gone to reach judgment on his legacy, than what's the use of arguments for or against Jarmo after less than a year? Little authoritative can be said yet.

If it's still too soon to evaluates Howson's legacy, and it most certainly is, what's the use of arguments for or against Jarmo after less than a year?

 

[CapnCornelius]

If it's still too soon to evaluates Howson's legacy, and it most certainly is, what's the use of arguments for or against Jarmo after less than a year?

0 playoff wins with Howson's rosters and only one appearance. Leaving a team with little offense with little offensive upside in its system. No, it is most definitely not to soon to put the final bullet in that one.

Jarmo is not immune to critique. Again, how you go into the season with McElhinney as your #2 is beyond me. But to say it is his fault that there isn't more offensive talent while letting the last guy off the hook is beyond the pale.

 

[Viqsi]

0 playoff wins with Howson's rosters and only one appearance. Leaving a team with little offense with little offensive upside in its system. No, it is most definitely not to soon to put the final bullet in that one.

"No, you see, I'm right and I was always right and there was never any point to having the debate, so jumping to conclusions isn't premature at all."

 

[fudgeeo]

Hey everyone coming here to see if Boone Jenner is available. And yes I know everybody is available for a huge overpayment. Spent about an hour reading over some topics and didn't notice a whole bunch on him. How much of your core is he? Would Jordan eberle interest you? Also can someone tell me how I start a new topic please.

 

[deetman]

Hey everyone coming here to see if Boone Jenner is available. And yes I know everybody is available for a huge overpayment. Spent about an hour reading over some topics and didn't notice a whole bunch on him. How much of your core is he? Would Jordan eberle interest you? Also can someone tell me how I start a new topic please.

Boone Jenner would likely not be available, but I'm no expert on trade values and such. To post a new topic, go to the main page of a forum, scroll down to after the listing of all the posts and there should be a "New Thread" button. That is what you are looking for.

 

[Crede777]

Hey everyone coming here to see if Boone Jenner is available. And yes I know everybody is available for a huge overpayment. Spent about an hour reading over some topics and didn't notice a whole bunch on him. How much of your core is he? Would Jordan eberle interest you? Also can someone tell me how I start a new topic please.

Columbus is trying to build around youth and Jenner is part of that young core with Johansen, Murray, and some others. I doubt Columbus moves him unless there is a problem with development or character (and so far there isn't).

That said, Eberle's value is better than Jenner's so Columbus would be silly not to take that offer. Edmonton wouldn't offer Eberle for Jenner I think.

 

[fudgeeo]

Can I get some insight on Jenner. How is his play this year? Is he projecting well? Is he hard to play against? Does he hit? I have a bit of a man crush on him and if he is trending the way he is suspose to than he is exactly what the oilers need.

 

[major major]

Can I get some insight on Jenner. How is his play this year? Is he projecting well? Is he hard to play against? Does he hit? I have a bit of a man crush on him and if he is trending the way he is suspose to than he is exactly what the oilers need.

He's doing everything right right now. He hits and is a beast in front of the net. I have no idea what he'll be like in his prime.

As much as we like Jenner the Oilers need a player like him even more, so I think its reasonable to talk about a trade that could help both teams.

 

[fudgeeo]

Realistically what would you value him at in a trade with the oilers. You can have the soft toe dragging Jordan eberle if you want him, but would have to add, even though Jenner is addressing a need. If we're up to anything besides hall and RNH is available.

 

[Robert]

0 playoff wins with Howson's rosters and only one appearance. Leaving a team with little offense with little offensive upside in its system. No, it is most definitely not to soon to put the final bullet in that one.

Jarmo is not immune to critique. Again, how you go into the season with McElhinney as your #2 is beyond me. But to say it is his fault that there isn't more offensive talent while letting the last guy off the hook is beyond the pale.

I'm way to late reading this post... McElhinney is 30, a career AHL player and good if protected... He did earn a SO tonight but in the long run he's not the NHL backup I would want going into the the SC playoffs so to speak...

Horton might be a "game change" as long as Bob Vezina gets his head screwed on correctly, we will see.... good to hear from you Capn..

 

[Palinka]

For what it's worth, I've been told that when Boone Jenner was drafted by Columbus, he was the top player remaining on the internal draft board. Brandon Saad was #2. Although that's more interesting than meaningful, it speaks volumes to how highly Jenner was thought of.

Although there's been changes at the top, I can also say that it wasn't exactly a fringe opinion to have Jenner fairly high. Most everyone had him in their top 20, but the variances of a player or two that were above him led to his unexpected fall to #38.

 

[Robert]

For what it's worth, I've been told that when Boone Jenner was drafted by Columbus, he was the top player remaining on the internal draft board. Brandon Saad was #2. Although that's more interesting than meaningful, it speaks volumes to how highly Jenner was thought of.

Although there's been changes at the top, I can also say that it wasn't exactly a fringe opinion to have Jenner fairly high. Most everyone had him in their top 20, but the variances of a player or two that were above him led to his unexpected fall to #38.

Jenner is ok.... impact player not so much but a good soldier average teams need... If the Jackets ever make the SC finals he won't be on the team..

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Jenner is ok.... impact player not so much but a good soldier average teams need... If the Jackets ever make the SC finals he won't be on the team..

Uhm, he's a 20 year old. He's only going to get better. The fact he's holding his own defensively and physically in the NHL at 20 is a huge success, the offense will come.

 

[stevo61]

Jenner is ok.... impact player not so much but a good soldier average teams need... If the Jackets ever make the SC finals he won't be on the team..

So... out of curiosity, would Marcus Foligno be one of those guys that could be on a SC team?

 

[major major]

Jenner is ok.... impact player not so much but a good soldier average teams need... If the Jackets ever make the SC finals he won't be on the team..

I really doubt this, even if you're talking about the current Boone Jenner and not the more developed Jenner we'd have in some future scenario. His gamelog is looking great lately. 4 points in the last 6, +7 in 7. But even without that he's hard to play against, like many cup winning fourth liners.

Wow, this many posts after midnight. Robert has pushed the button.

 

[db2011]

Jenner is ok.... impact player not so much but a good soldier average teams need... If the Jackets ever make the SC finals he won't be on the team..

Robert, you epitomize the score-goals-from-the-word-go-or-bust mentality that can really bring down conversations on this board.

 

[Robert]

Robert, you epitomize the score-goals-from-the-word-go-or-bust mentality that can really bring down conversations on this board.

I said he was ok... my being not so impressed should not impact a board... I'm only one opinion.

 

[Robert]

So... out of curiosity, would Marcus Foligno be one of those guys that could be on a SC team?

I can say yes for Nick...

 

[CBJx614]

Jenner will take a season to two to gain some confidence and consistency, likely like Johansen. With Dano, Wennberg, and hopefully Rychel following over the next 2-3 years.