CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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Better than Savard yes, but we'll see about the other 2. Prout is why Moore is gone.
Blow it up?
- Thread starter topscot78
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Better than Savard yes, but we'll see about the other 2. Prout is why Moore is gone.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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Blow it up? NO.
Stay the course? NO.
Something needs to change.
How about getting a coach who can install a better offensive system. One game it seems to be chip and chase, the next puck possession, the next God knows what? Not necessarily a head coach but an assistant who could? Not adverse to a coaching change but I'd give Richards the benefit of the doubt until he gets his roster back or at least most of it. If that happens and the inconsistent play continues throughout the season then I think he should go.
I think Gaborik needs to go at the deadline if he is healthy. He's hurt too often and has been an up and downer throughout his career. Unless he is willing to take a 2 year (3 tops) contract for no more than what he is making (and it probably should be less) I say he has to go. Hopefully for a 1st and a prospect although that may be too optimistic. Lets just say in the ball park of what Jagr & Iginla returned last year.
What we need most in my opinion is to have guys play where they would on a playoff team (i.e. second and third liners playing there, not disguised as 1st liners).
Untouchables in my mind are Murray, Joey and Horton. The rest can go if the deal is right (and if NTC's can be waived). Cam & Cal are semi-untouchables.
Name a captain and re-sign Vinnie.
- for this line only.
Stay the course? NO.
Something needs to change.
How about getting a coach who can install a better offensive system. One game it seems to be chip and chase, the next puck possession, the next God knows what? Not necessarily a head coach but an assistant who could? Not adverse to a coaching change but I'd give Richards the benefit of the doubt until he gets his roster back or at least most of it. If that happens and the inconsistent play continues throughout the season then I think he should go.
I think Gaborik needs to go at the deadline if he is healthy. He's hurt too often and has been an up and downer throughout his career. Unless he is willing to take a 2 year (3 tops) contract for no more than what he is making (and it probably should be less) I say he has to go. Hopefully for a 1st and a prospect although that may be too optimistic. Lets just say in the ball park of what Jagr & Iginla returned last year.
What we need most in my opinion is to have guys play where they would on a playoff team (i.e. second and third liners playing there, not disguised as 1st liners).
Untouchables in my mind are Murray, Joey and Horton. The rest can go if the deal is right (and if NTC's can be waived). Cam & Cal are semi-untouchables.
Name a captain and re-sign Vinnie.
- for this line only.
Dr. Fire
What, me worry?
Not time to panic.
I still believe that the CBJ have an excellent core. I get tired of hearing how injuries shouldn't matter, but they do matter. The CBJ are missing a hell of a lot of their regulars.
They say that the hardest game to play is the first home game after a long road trip. There is a reason they say that, and it doesn't just apply to the CBJ.
Last night sucked, but I am not ready to throw in the towel. I still want to see how this team plays with a full healthy roster, and that includes Horton.
I still believe that the CBJ have an excellent core. I get tired of hearing how injuries shouldn't matter, but they do matter. The CBJ are missing a hell of a lot of their regulars.
They say that the hardest game to play is the first home game after a long road trip. There is a reason they say that, and it doesn't just apply to the CBJ.
Last night sucked, but I am not ready to throw in the towel. I still want to see how this team plays with a full healthy roster, and that includes Horton.
IBleedUnionBlue
Registered User
- Aug 16, 2009
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I left at the end of period 2 last night. Only 1 other time in CBJ history have I left early. My heart just isnt in it right now. I am getting to the point where I am numb to the PR and marketing campaigns.
JD & JK deserve more time. Thought the Gaborik deal was a mistake, but I give JK props for trying to make a run, and in doing so, only trading 1 piece (Moore) that I felt should have been kept. I thought not bringing back VP would be a mistake. And I thought the club was relying too much on youth, inexperience, and average players like Umberger.
Blow it up - No. Shake it up & Accountability - Yes.
JD & JK deserve more time. Thought the Gaborik deal was a mistake, but I give JK props for trying to make a run, and in doing so, only trading 1 piece (Moore) that I felt should have been kept. I thought not bringing back VP would be a mistake. And I thought the club was relying too much on youth, inexperience, and average players like Umberger.
Blow it up - No. Shake it up & Accountability - Yes.
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Really, it's not just regulars - it's basically our entire top line (or what it could be) in Horton, Dubinsky, and Gaborik. Say that line lives up to it's last full season of output; Horton had 26 goals, 27 assists; Gaborik had 41 goals, 35 assists, and Dubinsky had 10 goals, 24 assists. That's 76 goals ... how much better would this team be with that kind of (potential) output? Quite a bit, I'd venture to guess ... and that doesn't even include the intangibles it would bring, with the defensive matchups from the other teams freeing up guys like Johansen, Atkinson, Foligno, and Anisimov ... those guys are all capable of providing offense, just not so much when matched up against Shea Weber on every shift. Also, what about the experience and leadership that those guys provide? Dubinsky seems to be the heart and soul of this team ... not having him in the lineup creates a far bigger hole than just offensive numbers.
I agree ... I'll take our core.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
- 15,842
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The key to a Horton-Dubi-Gaborik line is how they blend together. If they do then looking at 70+ goals from them is a good bet-if they don't mesh then it will be something much less. I am convinced that how the pieces fit is the key to building a great team.
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
I won't disagree - but even if they don't work out as a line, they can all play on separate lines and spread the wealth. There's nothing bad about having that kind of firepower in the lineup.
CrazyCanucks
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2005
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How much more can be blown up? Already the coach, GM, franchise player, other core players, and even changing conf/divisions has been done. the onus really has to be the players, no? Do you really want to be like the Oilers. Is there a curse on this team or something?
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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Timeless Winter
SaveD the Crew
I've heard that every year for the last 5 years. It's the worst excuse I've ever heard.
Being young didn't stop Malkin, Crosby, Kane, Toews from winning a Stanley Cup. The whole NHL is young now. Ridiculous excuse for losing every year.
Hello Johnny
Registered User
- Apr 13, 2007
- 13,208
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Being young didn't stop four of the best players of the decade from winning a cup? Wow! Someone should tell Cam Atkinson and Ryan Johansen that they're goners because they can't carry a team like those guys.
I don't have an answer for why we suck, but not having any elite talent probably has a bit to do with it.
FANonymous
Registered User
- Nov 7, 2010
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Clearly it's because we traded Jeff Carter. Every team that didn't trade him has won a cup!
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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Except this is the only year we've been the youngest in the league.
Malkin, Crosby, Kane, and Toews were all veterans when they won cups. Multiple years in the league, yes they were young (all younger than 25 I believe when they won), but they still knew how the NHL was played. Our guys do not completely yet.
What's to blowup and rebuild? We're in a rebuild.
Most of our guys haven't entered their primes yet and the ones that have aren't going to get you much at all in return. Look at what the Flames got for Iginla and Bouwmeester (better players than Gaborik): depth prospects and a borderline 1st/2nd rounder for each. I'm not saying we shouldn't deal Gaborik if we're out of it come February/March, we're probably just not going to get much that we can call a rebuild.
And then the thought of trading 25 year old guys like Anisimov, as bad as he's been this year, for a draft pick, and filling the roster with Sean Collins' for a half decade in the vain hope of a draft pick turning into something more than Anisimov.
A more interesting question would be the pure hypothetical: If we had a player like Rick Nash, who didn't want to be traded, should we trade him? We don't have anyone like that because we're already in a rebuild.
Most of our guys haven't entered their primes yet and the ones that have aren't going to get you much at all in return. Look at what the Flames got for Iginla and Bouwmeester (better players than Gaborik): depth prospects and a borderline 1st/2nd rounder for each. I'm not saying we shouldn't deal Gaborik if we're out of it come February/March, we're probably just not going to get much that we can call a rebuild.
And then the thought of trading 25 year old guys like Anisimov, as bad as he's been this year, for a draft pick, and filling the roster with Sean Collins' for a half decade in the vain hope of a draft pick turning into something more than Anisimov.
A more interesting question would be the pure hypothetical: If we had a player like Rick Nash, who didn't want to be traded, should we trade him? We don't have anyone like that because we're already in a rebuild.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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I think we have players who could be traded and bring decent returns. Dubinsky, Johnson, Foligno, some of the young D not named Murray, Anisimov are all tradeable in my mind. Not advocating for picks and prospects but for other NHL players who would make us better. Best candidate for a trading partner is Edmonton who need and could use some of our young D but would have to give up one of their better young F's in return, that is not Hemsky and probably not Gagner. Executing a win/win trade is difficult but it could happen.
Let's get a couple of those key players back on the ice, and let our goalie find his groove before blowing anything up.
We're only 5 points out of the playoffs, with our entire first line on IR, and talking about blowing things up.
We're only 5 points out of the playoffs, with our entire first line on IR, and talking about blowing things up.
We're only 5 points out of the playoffs, with our entire first line on IR, and talking about blowing things up.
That 5 points is massive. It can take 20 games of solid play to chip away at that.
I'm not in favor of blowing anything up, but 5 points is a lot bigger than people make it out to be.
InauguralCBJFan
Registered User
My 2 cents:
Umby is getting paid way too much (4.6) to play 3rd line minutes. He'd likely be on the 4th line if we were healthy. His game is grinding, and while he put in some work to improve his skating, he's still 3 or 4 steps behind almost everybody else on this team. Isn't this team built to be fast? His game just doesn't fit into what we want to create. We can easily find a guy to fill his spot at a quarter of the price.
Gaborik has stupid amounts of talent and hockey smarts. I mean stupid amounts. Problem is, is that he's a floater. He doesn't back check, he doesn't forecheck, and he only skates hard when there's nobody in front of him. He's a floater, just going through the motions. Not to mention his wrister, which used to score him goals left and right, rarely makes it through the 1st defenseman. Do I think he wants to be here? Not really, but he said he did because I think, at the time, he would have rather been anywhere else than on the same bench with Torts. That being said, we can't win with him. If we're contenders, he stays and likely walks after the season (I dont really want to resign him at 7.5+ if he's going to show up every other game). If we're not, we take what we can get for him at the deadline (in which case, we won't have the leverage in the trade to get what he is actually worth, which should be similar to what Buffalo got for Vanek). I think the trade to acquire him was ballsy and rejuvenating (I have never liked Brassard, Dorsett takes awful penalties. Johnny Moore i would have liked to keep). But if he's just going to go through the motions, only show his skill when it's convenient to him, then screw him. Honestly, I'd rather play AGAINST Gaborik on any night than have him on my team. We're talking about a guy with WORLD CLASS SPEED. Well where is it? I dont see any Gabby breakaways, I don't see any odd man rushes generated from Marian Gaborik skating his heart out. Bottom line, free up the 7.5 mil, that's a lot of money.
With Savard showing improvement and Erixon killing it in Springy, I think Nikitin is expendable. He's not a swift skater and his game has slipped considerably.
Other than that, I think JD and JK have done a fine job establishing a solid core and building up the stables. We are a lot deeper as an organization than we have ever been.
Umby is getting paid way too much (4.6) to play 3rd line minutes. He'd likely be on the 4th line if we were healthy. His game is grinding, and while he put in some work to improve his skating, he's still 3 or 4 steps behind almost everybody else on this team. Isn't this team built to be fast? His game just doesn't fit into what we want to create. We can easily find a guy to fill his spot at a quarter of the price.
Gaborik has stupid amounts of talent and hockey smarts. I mean stupid amounts. Problem is, is that he's a floater. He doesn't back check, he doesn't forecheck, and he only skates hard when there's nobody in front of him. He's a floater, just going through the motions. Not to mention his wrister, which used to score him goals left and right, rarely makes it through the 1st defenseman. Do I think he wants to be here? Not really, but he said he did because I think, at the time, he would have rather been anywhere else than on the same bench with Torts. That being said, we can't win with him. If we're contenders, he stays and likely walks after the season (I dont really want to resign him at 7.5+ if he's going to show up every other game). If we're not, we take what we can get for him at the deadline (in which case, we won't have the leverage in the trade to get what he is actually worth, which should be similar to what Buffalo got for Vanek). I think the trade to acquire him was ballsy and rejuvenating (I have never liked Brassard, Dorsett takes awful penalties. Johnny Moore i would have liked to keep). But if he's just going to go through the motions, only show his skill when it's convenient to him, then screw him. Honestly, I'd rather play AGAINST Gaborik on any night than have him on my team. We're talking about a guy with WORLD CLASS SPEED. Well where is it? I dont see any Gabby breakaways, I don't see any odd man rushes generated from Marian Gaborik skating his heart out. Bottom line, free up the 7.5 mil, that's a lot of money.
With Savard showing improvement and Erixon killing it in Springy, I think Nikitin is expendable. He's not a swift skater and his game has slipped considerably.
Other than that, I think JD and JK have done a fine job establishing a solid core and building up the stables. We are a lot deeper as an organization than we have ever been.
Crede777
Deputized
- Dec 16, 2009
- 14,841
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A few questions:
So it seems many/most don't think Gaborik will be back. Do we think Dubinsky - Johansen - Horton will be an NHL caliber top line next year? If not, what do we do?
Are Tyutin and Johnson are right now a bit of a redundancy? Would Johnson improve if we moved him back to his natural left side of a pairing which he was on during "controlled chaos" but not on when he's with Tyutin?
Should we keep Johansen and Foligno together? They seem to have good chemistry on the ice and practice a lot together in their off-time.
So it seems many/most don't think Gaborik will be back. Do we think Dubinsky - Johansen - Horton will be an NHL caliber top line next year? If not, what do we do?
Are Tyutin and Johnson are right now a bit of a redundancy? Would Johnson improve if we moved him back to his natural left side of a pairing which he was on during "controlled chaos" but not on when he's with Tyutin?
Should we keep Johansen and Foligno together? They seem to have good chemistry on the ice and practice a lot together in their off-time.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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Without Gabby (or at least Gabby of 60+ pt fame) I think we will continue to struggle to put a real first line on the ice. Joey-Horton is a good start but then it falls apart imo. Maybe Calvert if he starts scoring on a more consistent basis.
Welcome to the boards. I'll introduce you to the normal practice. You make a set of mostly sensible comments, and Major Major interjects to corrects your overstatements with needless extra research.
On Umberger:
Everyone thinks he's overpaid, but a 4th liner? The guy leads the team in game-winning goals and power play goals, and his 5-on-5 production rate is just below the typical range for second liners. And do you really think its that easy to reliably find a million dollar player who'll score 20-20-40?
Hmmm. Interesting that the whole team outside of Gaborik and Comeau are Howson's work. Why no credit to him? Must be a Howson-hater.
InauguralCBJFan
Registered User
Thanks for the friendly welcome! And yes, I am a Howson hater.
I never said we would find a 40 pt player at 1 million dollars. But if you think about how Umberger slots in, and the direction this team is going, he doesn't fit. Look at the lines and tell me, when healthy, RJ slots into the top 6. If Umberger scores 20, I'll stop posting. I hope to God he scores 20, but he won't. He won't be playing top 6 minutes, nor will he be on the powerplay. Soooo about the 20-20-40, probably a stretch.
I don't think RJ is top 6, remember I'm just refuting your claim that he's a 4th liner. And you did say you can replace his production for a quarter the price, which is a bit over million dollars. RJ doesn't belong on a scoring line, I'm with you on that part, but he's been great in the Holmstrom position on the powerplay.
punk_o_holic
Registered User
Five points isn't to bad in my opinion. If we were five points back of NY and were sitting in the 4th spot then it wouldn't be to bad. But we're not so I I think the bigger problem is that they have to catch 4 teams to get into the 3rd spot. NY could lose and we could win but then NJ/Philly/Carolina could have won as well(we gain ground on NY but so do the other teams). Or we could lose one night while NY/Philly/Car/NJ could have won a game/OTL and just like that we lose ground on a team that's a head of us. The inter division games will make it hard as well. Sure Columbus could win games against NY/NJ/Philly/Car when we go head to head but when NY/NJ/Philly/Car goes head to head against each other, those are guaranteed 2 points for any of those teams which means we either stay the same or lose ground. NYI isn't to far behind as well. We could go on a 2 game losing streak and NYI can go on a 2 game winning streak and all of a sudden, we're last and would now need to catch 5 teams for the 3rd spot.
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