Value of: Blackwood to Edmonton (this off season)

[belair]

If Blackwood is gonzo you’d expect them to sign the big fish before they send Blackwood out. That’s the sorting out they have to do. Orherwise they might end up with the same goalies they have right now if they strike out on the other goalies they might be interested in after the move Blackwood out.

My point is that there is no striking out. If they're in the market for a Husso or a Kuemper in the summer, they're communicating with those agents that Blackwood won't be in the picture.

There won't be any heels dragging. If the Devils are moving on from him, it'll be done quickly. It's pretty unlikely you see New Jersey go into next season with three goalies. The way this story reads, it's pretty unlikely they go into next season with the same tandem as well.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Your post was contradictory or illogical (you pick).

On the one hand you weren't advocating that we should accept that (lopsided) deal.

On the other hand, you provided a backhanded jab that we aren't willing to pay enough.

If the proposed deal isn't fair, and we reject it, how does it follow that we aren't willing to pay market rate for a goalie? It doesn't.

Fact is we offered market rate for Markstrom, he just chose to sign elsewhere.

It was a comment on why the Oilers have been looking for a goalie for this many years without finding any solution.

The, as you call it lopsided deal should have been looked at as a framework for a larger deal but it wasn't it was just shut down as bad.

My backhanded jab is 100% accurate, or they would have upgraded their goaltending already.

If the proposed deal isn't fair, you should attempt to tweak it or add to it unless it's way out of line Jesse for Blackwood doesn't fit as way out of line.

Unfortunately I think the Oilers organization thinks too much like people on here and think they can get a starter for middling players and low picks

 

[bucks_oil]

My comment on the Oilers not being willing to pay for goalie was clearly not about the offer, but about the response. I attempted to make this even more clear by saying not that they should accept this offer.

The reason the Oilers continue to look for a goalie is they aren't willing to pay for one.
He tabled a similar offer for Kuemper, obviously not as good or they'd have taken it
He got outbid on Markstrom who was pretty clearly looking for the biggest money

And now they have a shot a young starting goalie but they aren't willing to part with Pulujarvi, a 1st, Bouchard or Broberg in any way to get one.

The Oilers and their fans think teams will give them a starter for spare parts and late round picks and are shocked when the once again miss out on a goalie.

I say all this as a Devil fan living 2 hours away from Edmonton, so I follow this team closely.

Two seasons ago Blackwood was worth a 1st easily. The shine is off though. He's struggled two years straight and failed to progress into a legit mid-tier #1.

He still has potential, but I don't think any team would trade a first for him right now... and I don't think that's just me.

A 2nd and a B+ prospect is probably the most they'd get. Or a half decent ELC player that is pricing himself out of the market, but you'd be adding (like if we can't sign Yama, he's going the other way with you adding a mid round pick).

Rittich (27 at the time with a 907 and 911 in two most recent years as a starter) only fetched a 3rd last summer. Did he have Blackwood upside/recovery potential? No, but his most recent stats were far better.

Mrazek is probably a better example... Detroit trade him when he was 25 for 2 x 3rds. At the time he had two excellent seasons as a rookie and then sophomore and then struggled on a weak team for two years. VERY ANALOGOUS to Blackwood, but he was then traded mid season (while batting 910) in his fifth full time season for just a couple of thirds. Granted he didn't have quite the pedigree as Blackwood, but his age was the same and his career stats nearly perfectly match Blackwoods.

My offer is above Mrazek only based on the current sellers market.

Devils fans... do you have a better example?

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Two seasons ago Blackwood was worth a 1st easily. The shine is off though. He's struggled two years straight and failed to progress into a legit mid-tier #1.

He still has potential, but I don't think any team would trade a first for him right now... and I don't think that's just me.

A 2nd and a B+ prospect is probably the most they'd get. Or a half decent ELC player that is pricing himself out of the market, but you'd be adding (like if we can't sign Yama, he's going the other way with you adding a mid round pick).

Rittich (27 at the time with a 907 and 911 in two most recent years as a starter) only fetched a 3rd last summer. Did he have Blackwood upside/recovery potential? No, but his most recent stats were far better.

Mrazek is probably a better example... Detroit trade him when he was 25 for 2 x 3rds. At the time he had two excellent seasons as a rookie and then sophomore and then struggled on a weak team for two years. VERY ANALOGOUS to Blackwood, but he was then traded mid season (while batting 910) in his fifth full time season for just a couple of thirds. Granted he didn't have quite the pedigree as Blackwood, but his age was the same and his career stats nearly perfectly match Blackwoods.

My offer is above Mrazek only based on the current sellers market.

Devils fans... do you have a better example?

While I agree Blackwood probably doesn't fetch a 1st, nor would the Devils be overly interested in a pick as the main piece for him.

I do however think he makes a lot of sense for the Oilers and could rebound nicely in a new city, so if I'm the Oilers I'm looking to get Wood or Zacha as well especially if the ask is Jesse.

The other reason dealing with NJ is a benefit, they have the cap space to take a guy like Kassian or Smith off your hands.

If you had a guy like Wood in your lineup you wouldn't miss Jesse in the least

 

[bucks_oil]

It was a comment on why the Oilers have been looking for a goalie for this many years without finding any solution.

The, as you call it lopsided deal should have been looked at as a framework for a larger deal but it wasn't it was just shut down as bad.

My backhanded jab is 100% accurate, or they would have upgraded their goaltending already.

If the proposed deal isn't fair, you should attempt to tweak it or add to it unless it's way out of line Jesse for Blackwood doesn't fit as way out of line.

Unfortunately I think the Oilers organization thinks too much like people on here and think they can get a starter for middling players and low picks

1) Yes we are well aware of our goalie situation. You can find a thread per day on our forum. We also aren't the GM

2) The backhanded jab is not accurate, or lacks context. Markstrom signed for less in Calgary. And Edmonton have been highly cap constrained with few other UFA goalies worth bidding on. We need to shed Koskinen's $4.5M before we can realistically have the cap. That's why many of us are proponents of a trade.

3) Puljarvi for Blackwood is a non-starter. I think realistically you know that, so it isn't a realistic basis to tweak from.

4) I've proposed a couple of scenarios (2nd + B+) and (ELC/bridge deal coming up for renewal.... Yama... with an add from NJ).

5) Find me some goalie trades for a guy like Blackwood that support more than my proposal. I don't think you can, but I'm open minded.

6) I like my Mrazek example... situations, stats, age, etc... all very similar. I would use Dubnyk, another solid goalie who we traded when he couldn't float a terrible team in Edmonton.... but that was a terrible trade.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

1) Yes we are well aware of our goalie situation. You can find a thread per day on our forum. We also aren't the GM

2) The backhanded jab is not accurate, or lacks context. Markstrom signed for less in Calgary. And Edmonton have been highly cap constrained with few other UFA goalies worth bidding on. We need to shed Koskinen's $4.5M before we can realistically have the cap. That's why many of us are proponents of a trade.

3) Puljarvi for Blackwood is a non-starter. I think realistically you know that, so it isn't a realistic basis to tweak from.

4) I've proposed a couple of scenarios (2nd + B+) and (ELC/bridge deal coming up for renewal.... Yama... with an add from NJ).

5) Find me some goalie trades for a guy like Blackwood that support more than my proposal. I don't think you can, but I'm open minded.

6) I like my Mrazek example... situations, stats, age, etc... all very similar. I would use Dubnyk, another solid goalie who we traded when he couldn't float a terrible team in Edmonton.... but that was a terrible trade.

Biggest problem is you are looking at it from strictly Edmonton's side, NJ isn't going to have interest in a 2nd and an AHL prospect for their number 1 goalie, so that's a non starter from NJ

You say many of you are proponents of a trade but seem to be absolutely disinterested in actually making one unless it's in your favour, in the NHL you have to pay for assets you desire, people won't just hand them over because you want them and the fact that not only are all your decent prospects, and your 1st off the board so is what most would consider your 4th or 5th best forward this is completely unrealistic.

Most fans tend to think that because a player maybe wants out that somehow means a team will give them away and that is simply not the case, if you don't believe me ask Jake DeBrusk

This wasn't intended to be in any way offensive, but I'm told my writing style can come across that way sometimes

 

[ChaoticOrange]

While I agree Blackwood probably doesn't fetch a 1st, nor would the Devils be overly interested in a pick as the main piece for him.

I do however think he makes a lot of sense for the Oilers and could rebound nicely in a new city, so if I'm the Oilers I'm looking to get Wood or Zacha as well especially if the ask is Jesse.

The other reason dealing with NJ is a benefit, they have the cap space to take a guy like Kassian or Smith off your hands.

If you had a guy like Wood in your lineup you wouldn't miss Jesse in the least

Sorry, but that last line is nonsense. And I like Wood, but he's a one trick pony compared to Puljujarvi. Jesse Puljujarvi is an incredibly complete two way player and our best defensive forward by a mile.



Puljujarvi makes literally anyone that takes to the ice with him better. He's highly unselfish and getting very, very good at using his size to disrupt opponents, turn over pucks, and open up space for McDavid and Draisaitl.

Since Woodcroft took the reins, his impacts are otherwordly good. 2nd in the league in XGF%, scoring chances, and dangerous chances levels of good.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Sorry, but that last line is nonsense. And I like Wood, but he's a one trick pony compared to Puljujarvi. Jesse Puljujarvi is an incredibly complete two way player and our best defensive forward by a mile.



Puljujarvi makes literally anyone that takes to the ice with him better. He's highly unselfish and getting very, very good at using his size to disrupt opponents, turn over pucks, and open up space for McDavid and Draisaitl.

Since Woodcroft took the reins, his impacts are otherwordly good. 2nd in the league in XGF%, scoring chances, and dangerous chances levels of good.

I may be guilt of overstating Woods impact but he’s the exact kind of player all playoff teams covet, he has the speed to keep up in the top 6, parks his giant ass in front of the net and drive opponents nuts. Whenever he’s in the lineup, no matter who they’re playing the other team chases him around and takes penalties.

Adding a player like Wood as well as a starting goalie in Blackwood definitely takes some of the sting of losing Jesse, in my opinion anyway

Can I ask what Wood's one trick is?

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Blackwood vs poolparty

Don’t see why Edmonton would entertain this.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Did either of you guys read what I wrote at all? I clearly said not that they should accept this trade specifically. That means they shouldn’t accept this exact deal, but should be willing to pay a price for a better goalie and they aren’t.. and that’s why they have goalie issues

You realize this thread is about Edmonton trading for Blackwood, right? How else are they supposed to respond to it, when even by your own analysis they should turn it down? Sounds pretty simple…get offered something they don’t want, turn it down, then get condemned for never going for others goalies. Makes sense.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

You realize this thread is about Edmonton trading for Blackwood, right? How else are they supposed to respond to it, when even by your own analysis they should turn it down? Sounds pretty simple…get offered something they don’t want, turn it down, then get condemned for never going for others goalies. Makes sense.

Ya I forget, this place is 1 offer and done, no give and take, no counter just the token... "Oilers hang up and block your number" witty responses

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Ya I forget, this place is 1 offer and done, no give and take, no counter just the token... "Oilers hang up and block your number" witty responses

Maybe there’s little to no interest in Blackwood to Oiler fans. Why would they counter when they may not even want him? Or, as another poster stated, why counter when you opened up with a completely unreasonable proposal.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Maybe there’s little to no interest in Blackwood to Oiler fans. Why would they counter when they may not even want him? Or, as another poster stated, why counter when you opened up with a completely unreasonable proposal.

Here's the thing, this thread was started by, you guessed it an Oiler fan.
Guess how many offers have been made by Oiler fans, you guessed it again ZERO
This entire thread was made by an Oiler fan to apparently tell everyone Blackwood is terrible and they don't want him

edit: You may think I'm exaggerating, but look back and read all the comments, not a single offer from an Oiler fan

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Here's the thing, this thread was started by, you guessed it an Oiler fan.
Guess how many offers have been made by Oiler fans, you guessed it again ZERO
This entire thread was made by an Oiler fan to apparently tell everyone Blackwood is terrible and they don't want him

edit: You may think I'm exaggerating, but look back and read all the comments, not a single offer from an Oiler fan

Which may validate my statement of why they didn’t reply with a counter proposal. So, one oiler fan wants him, but it would seem most don’t (at least the ones in this thread). However, you’re side stepping your snarky remark about why the Oilers are not good. You responded to an Oiler fan not liking a proposal and instead of understanding that it was a bad proposal or that they have no interest in Blackwood, you decided to take a cheap shot with your snarky remark. Turning down a bad deal for Blackwood is not the reason the Oilers are still struggling to get over their hump.

 

[bucks_oil]

Here's the thing, this thread was started by, you guessed it an Oiler fan.
Guess how many offers have been made by Oiler fans, you guessed it again ZERO
This entire thread was made by an Oiler fan to apparently tell everyone Blackwood is terrible and they don't want him

edit: You may think I'm exaggerating, but look back and read all the comments, not a single offer from an Oiler fan

What are you talking about?

We said:
1) Puljarvi is off the table
2) Blackwood won't garner a 1st, at least not if history is any indication
3) Offered: 2nd + B+ prospect
4) Alternate offer: if we can't sign Yama, Yama for Blackwood with an add (pick) from you (which pick for me depends on how far apart we are on Yama salary and how he finishes the season... he's on a heater now which is raising his value)

You even responded to my offer #3, saying it would not be something NJ would be looking for their starting goalie.

Why R U so forgetful?

 

[kanucks25]

Reimer to Devils for Holtz.

 

[Eggtimer]

Ya , I wasn’t sure how to react when I first read that. Was thinking it was a joke /troll job / or just simply not knowing how good Holtz is ?

 

[HugeInTheShire]

What are you talking about?

We said:
1) Puljarvi is off the table
2) Blackwood won't garner a 1st, at least not if history is any indication
3) Offered: 2nd + B+ prospect
4) Alternate offer: if we can't sign Yama, Yama for Blackwood with an add (pick) from you (which pick for me depends on how far apart we are on Yama salary and how he finishes the season... he's on a heater now which is raising his value)

You even responded to my offer #3, saying it would not be something NJ would be looking for their starting goalie.

Why R U so forgetful?

1) Okay, he's off the table. (He shouldn't be)
2) I agreed with this statement and said the deal would probably have to expand to bridge the gap
3) Yes, I responded to that with how they shouldn't be interested
4) I must have just skimmed right over that part, but maybe there is something there
5) Why am I so forgetful? Well, it's because I'm old and supposed to be working right now lol

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Which may validate my statement of why they didn’t reply with a counter proposal. So, one oiler fan wants him, but it would seem most don’t (at least the ones in this thread). However, you’re side stepping your snarky remark about why the Oilers are not good. You responded to an Oiler fan not liking a proposal and instead of understanding that it was a bad proposal or that they have no interest in Blackwood, you decided to take a cheap shot with your snarky remark. Turning down a bad deal for Blackwood is not the reason the Oilers are still struggling to get over their hump.

Okay, didn't mean to offend for this I apologize
Personally I'm quite content to keep Blackwood, assuming he wants to be there and they want to keep him
Turning down a bad deal for Blackwood is not the reason the Oilers are still struggling to get over their hump, but their unwillingness to pay the price for a legit starter is

 

[BHD]

Depends… are the Oilers trading for a goalie who’s played behind mediocre teams or a goalie who has maybe underperformed as the starter? I would think twice before forking major assets for him.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Biggest problem is you are looking at it from strictly Edmonton's side, NJ isn't going to have interest in a 2nd and an AHL prospect for their number 1 goalie, so that's a non starter from NJ

You say many of you are proponents of a trade but seem to be absolutely disinterested in actually making one unless it's in your favour, in the NHL you have to pay for assets you desire, people won't just hand them over because you want them and the fact that not only are all your decent prospects, and your 1st off the board so is what most would consider your 4th or 5th best forward this is completely unrealistic.

Most fans tend to think that because a player maybe wants out that somehow means a team will give them away and that is simply not the case, if you don't believe me ask Jake DeBrusk

This wasn't intended to be in any way offensive, but I'm told my writing style can come across that way sometimes

Forwards are different. Boston could afford to keep Debrusk because they could move him around the lineup and wait for him to get out of his slump and earn the spot he thought he deserved. You can't do that with goalies. Blackwood has missed the teams goals for him for 2 seasons straight now, so regardless of if the player wants out, it makes sense for the team to be ready to go another direction.

I hear you on not wanting picks for him though. The picks and prospects trade would only happen if NJ management has decided that Blackwood isn't their guy and they want him gone, and don't get an offer for a different goalie.

If the offer from NJ is Blackwood and Wood for Pulujarvi and Kassian, I think we have to consider it even if it does hurt to lose JP. I suspect Yamamoto is the more likely one to go of the two Edmonton RFA rws though.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Forwards are different. Boston could afford to keep Debrusk because they could move him around the lineup and wait for him to get out of his slump and earn the spot he thought he deserved. You can't do that with goalies. Blackwood has missed the teams goals for him for 2 seasons straight now, so regardless of if the player wants out, it makes sense for the team to be ready to go another direction.

I hear you on not wanting picks for him though. The picks and prospects trade would only happen if NJ management has decided that Blackwood isn't their guy and they want him gone, and don't get an offer for a different goalie.

If the offer from NJ is Blackwood and Wood for Pulujarvi and Kassian, I think we have to consider it even if it does hurt to lose JP. I suspect Yamamoto is the more likely one to go of the two Edmonton RFA rws though.

I agree with what you’re saying, I’d love NJ to get Jesse but wouldn’t be surprised if they settles on Yamamoto instead. I can’t see picks or prospects for Blackwood unless they’re desperate to get rid of him and nobody wants to do a hockey trade

 

[McSuper]

this is so true. I've been harping on this forever. Our org doesn't care enough about goaltending to invest in it, whether it be cap space, trade assets, draft capital, or giving opportunities. The fans see this and understand that goaltending is a problem, but ultimately they don't want to pay anything for goaltending either. It's at least a majority faction that feels this way.

I would hesitate a bit about giving prime assets like those for Blackwood, as his star has fallen a bit, just as Puljujarvi has had a couple seasons where he has regained his form and is fulfilling potential. Even in an expanded deal to get the value right, the important parts are those two pieces. Even then, I do think that perhaps our organization is going to have to pick between Puljujarvi and Yamamoto, so having either has a base for a deal for Blackwood isn't that offensive to me.

This is totally false . The Oilers weren't deep enough to make it worth while throwing away assets on a goalie that wouldn't make a difference in winning a cup . You are going to throw away Holloway + Broberg + for a goalie ? Kane more then likely is gone so we will be back to a 2 line team which doesn't win a cup . This is also Blackwood we are talking about . The guy got worse number than Koskinen over the last 2 years . Also goalies are taboo you never know what you are getting . Look at Markstrom last year . Only the very elite goalies can be counted on to bring it year to year and no one is trading one .

 

[Mr Positive]

This is totally false . The Oilers weren't deep enough to make it worth while throwing away assets on a goalie that wouldn't make a difference in winning a cup . You are going to throw away Holloway + Broberg + for a goalie ? Kane more then likely is gone so we will be back to a 2 line team which doesn't win a cup . This is also Blackwood we are talking about . The guy got worse number than Koskinen over the last 2 years . Also goalies are taboo you never know what you are getting . Look at Markstrom last year . Only the very elite goalies can be counted on to bring it year to year and no one is trading one .

You are sort of proving my point. For Blackwood, I am lukewarm on him and I definitely dont think we would need to offer such a huge package for him. My statement was more general, and your statement about how goalies are "voodoo" proves it. Goalies are a skill position just like any other, and are subject to ups and downs just like any other position. There are high profile goalie flubs like Bobrovsky, and high profile forward and defense flubs like Skinner and Karlsson as well. So no, Markstrom isnt a player that proves your point. He proved my point. He was near elite in Vancouver and his talent has carried over with only a minor blip. It's just like any position

 

[ManofSteel55]

I agree with what you’re saying, I’d love NJ to get Jesse but wouldn’t be surprised if they settles on Yamamoto instead. I can’t see picks or prospects for Blackwood unless they’re desperate to get rid of him and nobody wants to do a hockey trade

I don't know if settle is the right word for Yamamoto. He's playing thr best hockey of his life and is scoring a ton. I think it comes down to which of the two is willing to take the lower salary next year. Yamamoto certainly appears to have the higher offensive upside right now. I just think he will want to get paid more.