Buffalo Bills Bills (6-2) vs. Vikings (7-1), November 13, 1PM ET: 'Both Teams Can Win A Trade' edition

[brian_griffin]

Saturday getting the coach job has strong Pegula giving Adams the GM job vibes. Owner is fed up with everything and hires a guy he’s known forever and likes who doesn’t actually have the traditional experience for the job.

Im sure Saturday has leadership qualities and is smart enough to rely on his team like Adams is…the job is just so incredibly different. Managing an office and managing a team are so different. And asking him to jump in midseason with a team who is done and coaches who haven’t had any answers seems like he’s set up to fail immediately. Which I guess is the point for a draft pick. But man…can you imagine walking into an NFL head coaching job with dozens and dozens and dozens of coaches and players who now answer to you…and there’s a game coming right up?

at least Adams could sit back and evaluate and learn intricacies at a respectable pace. This is just being tossed into a volcano.

You want a steadying leadership presence...

Yep. It reeks of Irsay wanting eyes & ears in the locker room and front office. Saturday is someone he’s known for decades and has already been advising him on team related matters.

And the bolded matters in that regard.

We're f***ed

That's the secret password of an authentic Buffalo Sports Fan!!!!!

 

[SundherDome]

The NFC is so f***ing bad, just wow

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

I think we all knew the AFC to be a bloodbath this year, and it's lived up for the most part with the Jets/Fins being good instead of the Raiders/Broncos.
The NFC being such a mess...well.

 

[buffalowing88]

Just being a Negative Nancy but 30+ years of this will do that...with that in mind, does anyone think we're still a WC team if Allen is out for the season? I'm not going to lie, Keenum feels like he's a big step behind Trubisky in terms of arm talent and the ability to replicate 70 percent of what Allen could do. His passes in the preseason included some wounded ducks that were tough to watch.

On the other hand, we have great coaching, a very good defense, and a capable safety valve in Diggs (Hines will help here as well).

I still deep down believe Allen will be okay but for curiosity's sake, does anyone care to guess how we'd finish up? 9-8? 10-7?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Just being a Negative Nancy but 30+ years of this will do that...with that in mind, does anyone think we're still a WC team if Allen is out for the season? I'm not going to lie, Keenum feels like he's a big step behind Trubisky in terms of arm talent and the ability to replicate 70 percent of what Allen could do. His passes in the preseason included some wounded ducks that were tough to watch.

On the other hand, we have great coaching, a very good defense, and a capable safety valve in Diggs (Hines will help here as well).

I still deep down believe Allen will be okay but for curiosity's sake, does anyone care to guess how we'd finish up? 9-8? 10-7?

This does not turn into a 2 or 3 win team without Allen.

 

[buffalowing88]

This does not turn into a 2 or 3 win team without Allen.

The drop-off from Allen to Keenum is so steep. That combined with the injuries ravaging the defense scare me. Then again, this entire past 12 hours since the rumors starting floaring around have scared me. I hate this.

 

[TheStorm]

Seasons over if Allen is out for the rest of the year. Please let that not be the case.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Seasons over if Allen is out for the rest of the year. Please let that not be the case.

The drop-off from Allen to Keenum is so steep. That combined with the injuries ravaging the defense scare me. Then again, this entire past 12 hours since the rumors starting floaring around have scared me. I hate this.

This does not turn into a 2 or 3 win team without Allen.

Well, hopefully this comes to fruition:


That would be best case scenario. He missed 4 games in 2018, so maybe he could play through it or misses a couple of games. As someone else mentioned- we have 4 games left against the division with a game in hand, so we could miss him this week and still control our own fate.

 

[Dubi Doo]

On a separate topic- I really, really hope Allen can reel in the INTs. He's a gun slinger, so I understand his INTs will be higher, but he needs to be better in this regard:


Finally, not in regards to Allen- I know a lot of the d line has gone AWOL (Basham, Epenesa, etc...), but what the heck is up with Oliver? Basham and Epenesa I thought would be good depth pieces, but they've struggled lately. Whatever- I didn't have high expectations for them, but I did for Oliver. The addition of Miller seemed like it was going to take Oliver's game to the next level, and he's seemingly fallen flat on his face. Pretty frustrating. Perhaps he's still dealing with an injury because he was great last year.

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

Honestly I feel like the AFCE could just beat eachother up and all go 3-3 in division games this year.

 

[kirby11]

Team desperately needed wide receiver help. Hope it doesn’t become too obvious like addressing vet pass rusher was last year. To be this close and be a day late on the thing everyone knows they need twice would be devastating.

help us OBJ, you’re our only hope.

I hope they give Shakir a legit shot at slot receiver if they don’t trust McKenzie there. The lack of a security blanket wideout underneath (and the odd fact that they’ve basically erased Knox from the offense) is killing them in terms of staying ahead of the sticks

On a separate topic- I really, really hope Allen can reel in the INTs. He's a gun slinger, so I understand his INTs will be higher, but he needs to be better in this regard:


Finally, not in regards to Allen- I know a lot of the d line has gone AWOL (Basham, Epenesa, etc...), but what the heck is up with Oliver? Basham and Epenesa I thought would be good depth pieces, but they've struggled lately. Whatever- I didn't have high expectations for them, but I did for Oliver. The addition of Miller seemed like it was going to take Oliver's game to the next level, and he's seemingly fallen flat on his face. Pretty frustrating. Perhaps he's still dealing with an injury because he was great last year.

IIRC Oliver got hurt in the Rams game and then missed the next 3 or 4. Could be he’s not at 100%.

Speaking of Boogie and Epenesa, can Beane have someone else make some of our 2nd/3rd round picks? The amount of talent he’s missed in that range is astonishing

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Dubi Doo]

I hope they give Shakir a legit shot at slot receiver if they don’t trust McKenzie there. The lack of a security blanket wideout underneath (and the odd fact that they’ve basically erased Knox from the offense) is killing them in terms of staying ahead of the sticks


IIRC Oliver got hurt in the Rams game and then missed the next 3 or 4. Could be he’s not at 100%.

Speaking of Boogie and Epenesa, can Beane have someone else make some of our 2nd/3rd round picks? The amount of talent he’s missed in that range is astonishing

They need to give up on the McKenzie experiment in the slot. Unfortunately, theyre usually ultra conservative when it comes to playing rookies. Really hope they switch it up, though.

Also think OBJ is a bigger need unless Davis shows more consistency. He's had some big time plays, but disappears for stretches. So much of our offense funnels through Diggs.

That would be anywhere from 2-8 weeks, right?

Actually:

 

[Jim Bob]

They need to give up on the McKenzie experiment in the slot. Unfortunately, theyre usually ultra conservative when it comes to playing rookies. Really hope they switch it up, though.

Also think OBJ is a bigger need unless Davis shows more consistency. He's had some big time plays, but disappears for stretches. So much of our offense funnels through Diggs.


That would be anywhere from 2-8 weeks, right?

Actually:

He missed 4 weeks last time he hurt his UCL.

The early reports are that this looks to be not that bad. So, if he misses time, that 2-4 week projection seems to be what they would be looking at.

 

[buffa dud]

IIRC Oliver got hurt in the Rams game and then missed the next 3 or 4. Could be he’s not at 100%.

Speaking of Boogie and Epenesa, can Beane have someone else make some of our 2nd/3rd round picks? The amount of talent he’s missed in that range is astonishing

Agreed on Oliver.

And on drafting/development, overall I think it should be a concern of Beane and his staff. It's possible I'm being impatient, or unrealistic, but outside of 2017 and 2018 (Allen, Edmunds, Milano, Dawkins and Tre) the Bills have struggled horrendously with finding the top-end talent they're going to need to remain competitive. They have drafted zero All-Pro, Pro-Bowl, or Offensive/Defensive POY over the last four years. That is a virtual death knell in this league, if your aspirations are winning the Super Bowl.

 

[Dubi Doo]

He missed 4 weeks last time he hurt his UCL.

The early reports are that this looks to be not that bad. So, if he misses time, that 2-4 week projection seems to be what they would be looking at.

Well then-

The Superbowl's back on the menu, boys!

 

[kirby11]

Agreed on Oliver.

And on drafting/development, overall I think it should be a concern of Beane and his staff. It's possible I'm being impatient, or unrealistic, but outside of 2017 and 2018 (Allen, Edmunds, Milano, Dawkins and Tre) the Bills have struggled horrendously with finding the top-end talent they're going to need to remain competitive. They have drafted zero All-Pro, Pro-Bowl, or Offensive/Defensive POY over the last four years. That is a virtual death knell in this league, if your aspirations are winning the Super Bowl.

For me, it's not even that they're missing on elite players--they've hardly even gotten any useful starting-level players out of these early day 2 picks. Going back to 2018 picks in rounds 2 and 3:

Phillips: Decent interior DL, if a bit undersized. Left for a bigger payday. Could reasonably chalk that up as a hit for Beane.

Cody Ford: The "why did you pass on D.K. Metcalf" pick. Massive bust.

Singletary: Perfectly serviceable starting RB. Hit.

Knox: Decent tight end, though his current usage is frustrating. Not sure if it's a result of scheme, him not playing as well as expected, or Josh just not looking his way much. Hit.

Epenesa: Meh. Underwhelming rotational DE. Looking mediocre at best.

Moss: Possibly ruined by that injury in the playoffs a couple years ago. Was pretty much a bust at the end of his time here.

Basham: The "why did you pass on Creed Humphrey" pick. Trending toward bust status.

Brown: Looked promising for some of his rookie year. Injuries are a significant concern.

Cook: Incomplete, not great so far.

Bernard: Incomplete.

By my count, out of ten picks, you have:
-3 legit starters, though none of them are upper echelon players, and only Knox is likely gonna be here after this season.
-A middling depth player in Epenesa
-Question marks with Brown, Cook, and Bernard

The rest are a whole lot of junk.

 

[Dubi Doo]

For me, it's not even that they're missing on elite players--they've hardly even gotten any useful starting-level players out of these early day 2 picks. Going back to 2018 picks in rounds 2 and 3:

Phillips: Decent interior DL, if a bit undersized. Left for a bigger payday. Could reasonably chalk that up as a hit for Beane.

Cody Ford: The "why did you pass on D.K. Metcalf" pick. Massive bust.

Singletary: Perfectly serviceable starting RB. Hit.

Knox: Decent tight end, though his current usage is frustrating. Not sure if it's a result of scheme, him not playing as well as expected, or Josh just not looking his way much. Hit.

Epenesa: Meh. Underwhelming rotational DE. Looking mediocre at best.

Moss: Possibly ruined by that injury in the playoffs a couple years ago. Was pretty much a bust at the end of his time here.

Basham: The "why did you pass on Creed Humphrey" pick. Trending toward bust status.

Brown: Looked promising for some of his rookie year. Injuries are a significant concern.

Cook: Incomplete, not great so far.

Bernard: Incomplete.

By my count, out of ten picks, you have:
-3 legit starters, though none of them are upper echelon players, and only Knox is likely gonna be here after this season.
-A middling depth player in Epenesa
-Question marks with Brown, Cook, and Bernard

The rest are a whole lot of junk.

I'd say it's still a bit too soon to judge.

Knox was looking really good last year. I have to wonder if his mind isn't all their due to trauma with losing his brother. He's still a good TE, but hopefully he gets more involved in the passing game.

I haven't kept tabs on Phillips for the past few weeks, but he seemed to be loved in Minnesota, and he's a good player when healthy.

I wish we would have a start player from the second round, but it seems like they're at least churning out starters at a decent rate. I'd assume a 50% hit rate for a starter isn't bad considering they are drafting later and later in the second round. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, though!

 

[TehDoak]

Honestly, as. much as it sucks, Josh Allen missing 3-4 games might be the best thing for us. He's a bit a of a cheat code and when he's on it covers up flaws in our game. You can let a team run all over you in the 2nd half if you are up 3 scores. If he misses 4 games and we go 2-2 vs Minny, Cleveland, Vikiings, and Patriots, you come out 8-4 and probably in a tie for top of the division, or at worst, one game back and losing tie breakers.

We need to learn to run the ball consistently. With Allen, we rarely stick to the run game because why would you? You are going to get more yards and score more by letting Allen throw the ball. So they throw the ball. I think simplifying the offense a bit for Keenum and having run be a bigger part of it could help us long term. Much like when Prescott was out and Dallas changed up their offense.

It should also be noted, MVP winners rarely win the Super Bowl. MVP winners rarely face any adversity in the regular season and typically play in a bad division so they run up their stats against. It's good for the team to face some adversity in the regular season.

 

[Jim Bob]

Next Gen Stats: Josh Allen's final pass attempt was ridiculous

Yup, that was a rocket:

billswire.usatoday.com

 

[zenthusiast]

About a month is a sweet spot. Interestingly, qbs recover a lot faster from UCL injuries like these than pitchers do, and require surgical repairs much less frequently.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Why the **** are people even talking about Tommy john’s?

 

[buffalowing88]

For me, it's not even that they're missing on elite players--they've hardly even gotten any useful starting-level players out of these early day 2 picks. Going back to 2018 picks in rounds 2 and 3:

Phillips: Decent interior DL, if a bit undersized. Left for a bigger payday. Could reasonably chalk that up as a hit for Beane.

Cody Ford: The "why did you pass on D.K. Metcalf" pick. Massive bust.

Singletary: Perfectly serviceable starting RB. Hit.

Knox: Decent tight end, though his current usage is frustrating. Not sure if it's a result of scheme, him not playing as well as expected, or Josh just not looking his way much. Hit.

Epenesa: Meh. Underwhelming rotational DE. Looking mediocre at best.

Moss: Possibly ruined by that injury in the playoffs a couple years ago. Was pretty much a bust at the end of his time here.

Basham: The "why did you pass on Creed Humphrey" pick. Trending toward bust status.

Brown: Looked promising for some of his rookie year. Injuries are a significant concern.

Cook: Incomplete, not great so far.

Bernard: Incomplete.

By my count, out of ten picks, you have:
-3 legit starters, though none of them are upper echelon players, and only Knox is likely gonna be here after this season.
-A middling depth player in Epenesa
-Question marks with Brown, Cook, and Bernard

The rest are a whole lot of junk.

Pretty spot on. My only disagreement would be on Cook. I think he's looked pretty intriguing so far. He's shown some marked improvement in breaking tackles already and I think it's just a matter of him keeping his feet moving.

Otherwise, agree with these. I'd even go so far as to throw Basham and Epenesa in bust categories decisively. When I see those two and Lawson being touted as great depth I cringe a little.

Why the **** are people even talking about Tommy john’s?

Because the injury is one that athletes turn to Tommy John surgery for if the tear is anything more than partial?

 

[Jim Bob]