Bill the Thrill: Nylander appreciation thread

[Oscar Peterson]

He had his best year last year and was 31st in scoring among forwards. If you think that, fine but i could have probably named more than 10 right wingers who were better than him last year on balance.

1st line winger = ~ top 60 winger in the league.
Despite having flaws he needed to work on, he’s still been that level every year except his holdout year.

 

[Notsince67]

1st line winger = ~ top 60 winger in the league.
Despite having flaws he needed to work on, he’s still been that level every year except his holdout year.

Top 64 and it is noteable that he isn't even the best right winger on his team.
Not sure why you are flexing over this.
Like I said...in an all star selection, he probably would have finished 13th or 14th best at right wing last year

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Top 64 and it is noteable that he isn't even the best right winger on his team.
Not sure why you are flexing over this.
Like I said...in an all star selection, he probably would have finished 13th or 14th best at right wing last year

Flexing? What are you even talking about lol
Just saying that saying he was a “run of the mill top 6 winger” prior to this year is ridiculous, it’s factually inaccurate and just comes across as a cheap shot at him regardless if that’s your intention.
Not being as good as Marner doesn’t take anything away from how good Nylander is. It’s like saying it’s notable that Malkin isn’t even the top center on his team despite being one of the top players of his era full stop.

 

[Notsince67]

Flexing? What are you even talking about lol
Just saying that saying he was a “run of the mill top 6 winger” prior to this year is ridiculous, it’s factually inaccurate and just comes across as a cheap shot at him regardless if that’s your intention.
Not being as good as Marner doesn’t take anything away from how good Nylander is. It’s like saying it’s notable that Malkin isn’t even the top center on his team despite being one of the top players of his era full stop.

You are the one doing the math. 2 wingers per team, x number of teams. The problem is that 1 of the 2 on the leafs wouldn't have been Willy. I was correcting your little mathematical example (and kind of a poor representation to make your point in my mind...)
As for your statement that it was meant as a cheap shot...beyond the elite players of this game, there is little differentiating everyone else above replacement level. Statistically they only vary by the quality of their teams. I only said he was run of the mill...which meant he wasn't elite and he wasn't.
He has now broken into an elite group of a few players.
Elite is so high that it makes everyone else combined below the statistical average. That is how good elite players are in the NHL.
So forgive me for not paying proper reverence to your idol. It aint about you so remember that when you essentially run up on someone.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Omg he said top 6 winger, who cares if he used to be a top six winger or 1st line winger, either way it means a good player. The semantics don’t Matter, the point about nylander going crazy this season and playing like a superstar is the main point to look at.

This version of nylander helps us much more then the past versions, especially come playoff time

 

[Sundinisagod]

If we didn’t sign Tavares, Willy could have been developed into a centre, as many hoped when we first drafted him. He’s definitely got what it takes. My favourite Leaf and I won’t be complaining when we give him that 88 million dollar contract he deserves.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He’s always been better than run of the mill top 6 winger. It’s more that he’s jumped from 1st line winger to star player.

Exactly. Maybe you could say that for a long time now, he's been a run of the mill 1st line winger, saying he's been a run of the mill top 6 winger is an insult to the fine player that he has been for us.

Top 64 and it is noteable that he isn't even the best right winger on his team.
Not sure why you are flexing over this.
Like I said...in an all star selection, he probably would have finished 13th or 14th best at right wing last year

Noteable for you maybe but you're not making any sense. The Malkin/Crosby example has already been pointed out to you, the fact that they happen to play on the same team doesn't mean Malkin isn't a #1 centre. If you don't know who Malkin is then Matthews/Tavares is an example closer to home. Not as dramatic/obvioius an example mind you, but valid nevertheless.

So forgive me for not paying proper reverence to your idol. It aint about you so remember that when you essentially run up on someone.

This is rich, coming from you. Marner has exactly one more point than Nylander and you've been going on and on for a long time now about how Marner is gods gift to hockey. It's pretty transparent that Marner is your idol and that's reason enough for you to tear down Nylander.

I think they're both great players, Marner's been better to this point in their careers but since the beginning of the last playoffs, it's not easy to say who's been the better player. Nylander's closed the gap and now they're really close.

 

[freshwind]

Exactly. Maybe you could say that for a long time now, he's been a run of the mill 1st line winger, saying he's been a run of the mill top 6 winger is an insult to the fine player that he has been for us.


Noteable for you maybe but you're not making any sense. The Malkin/Crosby example has already been pointed out to you, the fact that they happen to play on the same team doesn't mean Malkin isn't a #1 centre. If you don't know who Malkin is then Matthews/Tavares is an example closer to home. Not as dramatic/obvioius an example mind you, but valid nevertheless.


This is rich, coming from you. Marner has exactly one more point than Nylander and you've been going on and on for a long time now about how Marner is gods gift to hockey. It's pretty transparent that Marner is your idol and that's reason enough for you to tear down Nylander.

I think they're both great players, Marner's been better to this point in their careers but since the beginning of the last playoffs, it's not easy to say who's been the better player. Nylander's closed the gap and now they're really close.

good post ... I will go one further ... if one of the "core" needs to be moved I would seriously look at marner ... I am not sure marner has any further to grow .. I do not think he has improved this year, but I think willie has a lot of room to still grow.
this is not a marner hate post but realistically if we need to readjust, imagine the return for marner at the draft?
I can see matthews, nylander, even ror as being an easier negotiation than mitch ...
but regardless of any of our thoughts and biases, management needs to sit down with all of them before the draft and know where they are going, that may make the decision for management for them...

 

[Gabriel426]

Both MM and Willie are great players and most importantly they both play for the Leafs.
MM is in the second tier of players with Kuch, Drai, and the rest below McD. Willie is not quite there yet, but to say Willie is not a Top 64 wingers in the league is crazy. I would even rank Willie as a top 20 wingers in the league and top 50 forwards in the league.

 

[Gabriel426]

You are the one doing the math. 2 wingers per team, x number of teams. The problem is that 1 of the 2 on the leafs wouldn't have been Willy. I was correcting your little mathematical example (and kind of a poor representation to make your point in my mind...)
As for your statement that it was meant as a cheap shot...beyond the elite players of this game, there is little differentiating everyone else above replacement level. Statistically they only vary by the quality of their teams. I only said he was run of the mill...which meant he wasn't elite and he wasn't.
He has now broken into an elite group of a few players.
Elite is so high that it makes everyone else combined below the statistical average. That is how good elite players are in the NHL.
So forgive me for not paying proper reverence to your idol. It aint about you so remember that when you essentially run up on someone.

Honestly, if someone here went to the MM appreciation thread and said MM is a top line winger, you will be throwing all kinds of stuff and state that MM is more than a top line winger.

 

[Gabriel426]

good post ... I will go one further ... if one of the "core" needs to be moved I would seriously look at marner ... I am not sure marner has any further to grow .. I do not think he has improved this year, but I think willie has a lot of room to still grow.
this is not a marner hate post but realistically if we need to readjust, imagine the return for marner at the draft?
I can see matthews, nylander, even ror as being an easier negotiation than mitch ...
but regardless of any of our thoughts and biases, management needs to sit down with all of them before the draft and know where they are going, that may make the decision for management for them...

I can certainly see MM getting more than Willie in a trade and even AM due to his current season.
But I don’t think you can justify trading MM unless the player coming back is McD, Vas, Shek or Makar.
I mentioned in the game thread when someone said Yokes top 5 pick, Chychrun plus picks for AM is a good package and I said even Bedard plus Chychrun for AM is not good enough, which led to me saying even Bedard, Chychrun and Keller is not good enough for McD and this poster said Oilers will say yes.
Anyhow the point is that, even if it is Bedard and Chychrun for MM, I still won’t do it bc it doesn’t make the Leafs better.
McD is another story.
Same can be said for Makar.
Vas and Shek are goalies.

 

[Notsince67]

Exactly. Maybe you could say that for a long time now, he's been a run of the mill 1st line winger, saying he's been a run of the mill top 6 winger is an insult to the fine player that he has been for us.


Noteable for you maybe but you're not making any sense. The Malkin/Crosby example has already been pointed out to you, the fact that they happen to play on the same team doesn't mean Malkin isn't a #1 centre. If you don't know who Malkin is then Matthews/Tavares is an example closer to home. Not as dramatic/obvioius an example mind you, but valid nevertheless.


This is rich, coming from you. Marner has exactly one more point than Nylander and you've been going on and on for a long time now about how Marner is gods gift to hockey. It's pretty transparent that Marner is your idol and that's reason enough for you to tear down Nylander.

I think they're both great players, Marner's been better to this point in their careers but since the beginning of the last playoffs, it's not easy to say who's been the better player. Nylander's closed the gap and now they're really

Honestly, if someone here went to the MM appreciation thread and said MM is a top line winger, you will be throwing all kinds of stuff and state that MM is more than a top line winger.

I have said far better things about Nylander and for longer than you and Marner. You fanboys act like you own this player. I am a fan yet you attempt to cast me as a hater.
Gonna start blocking you folks with a fetish

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Nothing short of magnificent this season.

 

[Gabriel426]

I have said far better things about Nylander and for longer than you and Marner. You fanboys act like you own this player. I am a fan yet you attempt to cast me as a hater.
Gonna start blocking you folks with a fetish

I don’t think you are a hater, you are just a lot tougher on Willie than you are on MM, that’s all.
Kind of like MM is your fav kid and can do no wrong, while Willie is your other kid where you want so much more out of him.

 

[Gary Nylund]

good post ... I will go one further ... if one of the "core" needs to be moved I would seriously look at marner ... I am not sure marner has any further to grow .. I do not think he has improved this year, but I think willie has a lot of room to still grow.
this is not a marner hate post but realistically if we need to readjust, imagine the return for marner at the draft?
I can see matthews, nylander, even ror as being an easier negotiation than mitch ...
but regardless of any of our thoughts and biases, management needs to sit down with all of them before the draft and know where they are going, that may make the decision for management for them...

Not sure how realistic it is for management to sit down with all of them but that is something many of us were hoping for years ago, and they should at least try.

They may have to make a decision soon and since it's Matthews and Nylander who are due first, they might have to decide which one they can't afford to keep and right now if it comes to that, my choice would be Matthews. Unless he shakes off the lethargy, comes alive in the playoffs and blows everyone away, Nylander is probably the best bang for the buck going forward. Unless of course he asks for the moon, also very possible. I can see a scenario where Pasta sets the market by signing for whatever, let's be optimistic and say it's only 11 million and the you could argue that OK, Nylander can't be worth more than 10. But then Willie says fine, I'll see what the UFA market says I'm worth and you know what, someone probably will give him 11 or maybe more even. The cap is also projected to go up so that's going raise his demands for sure, the only question is how much and that will depend on the cap projections. And that's how we got screwed before, signed out big guys to big money deals when reasonable projections had the cap going up, then covid hit and ...

Then again, you do have a point saying Marner should be the one to go. I would hate to lose him, I think I'd even rather keep him over Matthews but because teams trading for him are getting him for more than one year, the return should be a lot more than it would be for Matthews so there is that - obviously the return matters a great deal.

What about this - trade Matthews in the summer, hopefully sign Nylander for something not too crazy and then sit Marner down and find out where his head is at and tell him straight out that unless he's willing to extend here for a reasonable price, he is being traded period. Tell him gong forward we are putting an internal cap structure in place the way Boston does and that's not to his liking, he needs to go. I personally think that he wants to be a Leaf forever and he will agree but if not, trade him period. Send a message to everyone that the days of mercenaries cashing in for top dollar are over, stick with players that want to be here.

I want to resign ROR as well, I really do but it's hard to envision a scenario where we are sitting here a couple of years from now with even the big 4 all under contract, never mind ROR.

Tough decisions ahead, very tough. Oh well, they're not my decisions to make so I'll try to just focus on the present and put the unpleasant future possibilities out of my mind. But if we fail again in the playoffs, even if it's losing in round 2 to Boston, something has to change anyway so that pressure in addition to various contract nightmare scenarios make it easier to decide to shake things up.

I have said far better things about Nylander and for longer than you and Marner. You fanboys act like you own this player. I am a fan yet you attempt to cast me as a hater.
Gonna start blocking you folks with a fetish

Once again, that's rich coming from you. For every negative thing I say about Marner, I say a hundred positive things yet every time I dare to post anything about Marner, you attack me as if I hate the guy. Even when I say the positive things you attack me, saying nonsense like I don't really mean it etc. You've single handedly destroyed the Marner thread to the point where it's no longer possible to have a rational discussion there.

You think your threat to block people worries anyone? Please go ahead, your responses to my posts are usually beyond ridiculous and if you stopped, that could improve that overall quality of any thread.

 

[ER89]

Not sure how realistic it is for management to sit down with all of them but that is something many of us were hoping for years ago, and they should at least try.

They may have to make a decision soon and since it's Matthews and Nylander who are due first, they might have to decide which one they can't afford to keep and right now if it comes to that, my choice would be Matthews. Unless he shakes off the lethargy, comes alive in the playoffs and blows everyone away, Nylander is probably the best bang for the buck going forward. Unless of course he asks for the moon, also very possible. I can see a scenario where Pasta sets the market by signing for whatever, let's be optimistic and say it's only 11 million and the you could argue that OK, Nylander can't be worth more than 10. But then Willie says fine, I'll see what the UFA market says I'm worth and you know what, someone probably will give him 11 or maybe more even. The cap is also projected to go up so that's going raise his demands for sure, the only question is how much and that will depend on the cap projections. And that's how we got screwed before, signed out big guys to big money deals when reasonable projections had the cap going up, then covid hit and ...

Then again, you do have a point saying Marner should be the one to go. I would hate to lose him, I think I'd even rather keep him over Matthews but because teams trading for him are getting him for more than one year, the return should be a lot more than it would be for Matthews so there is that - obviously the return matters a great deal.

What about this - trade Matthews in the summer, hopefully sign Nylander for something not too crazy and then sit Marner down and find out where his head is at and tell him straight out that unless he's willing to extend here for a reasonable price, he is being traded period. Tell him gong forward we are putting an internal cap structure in place the way Boston does and that's not to his liking, he needs to go. I personally think that he wants to be a Leaf forever and he will agree but if not, trade him period. Send a message to everyone that the days of mercenaries cashing in for top dollar are over, stick with players that want to be here.

I want to resign ROR as well, I really do but it's hard to envision a scenario where we are sitting here a couple of years from now with even the big 4 all under contract, never mind ROR.

Tough decisions ahead, very tough. Oh well, they're not my decisions to make so I'll try to just focus on the present and put the unpleasant future possibilities out of my mind. But if we fail again in the playoffs, even if it's losing in round 2 to Boston, something has to change anyway so that pressure in addition to various contract nightmare scenarios make it easier to decide to shake things up.


Once again, that's rich coming from you. For every negative thing I say about Marner, I say a hundred positive things yet every time I dare to post anything about Marner, you attack me as if I hate the guy. Even when I say the positive things you attack me, saying nonsense like I don't really mean it etc. You've single handedly destroyed the Marner thread to the point where it's no longer possible to have a rational discussion there.

You think your threat to block people worries anyone? Please go ahead, your responses to my posts are usually beyond ridiculous and if you stopped, that could improve that overall quality of any thread.

This dude has horrible takes re marner vs nylander. He is Paul dw.

 

[WillyC]

I think Marner will genuinely give a team discount… he knows all time points and a statue on Legend’s Row are possible.

 

[Bomber0104]

Excellent game to him this year, exactly what I thought he could be.

Still has another untapped gear though....

And that's both offensively and defensively.

 

[ULF_55]

I like that he can score goals, which are worth 2 points, assists are worth 1 point.

If old enough you know the source, if not you're excused.

 

[Menzinger]

Top 12 in goals scored in the league. Leads the Leafs.

 

[ZEBROA]

Dont know yet if moving him to the second line is good or bad for the team. One game says nothing. Good for Matthews to get some goals.

 

[Notsince67]

Dont know yet if moving him to the second line is good or bad for the team. One game says nothing. Good for Matthews to get some goals.

He looks like he will produce wherever he is. It's up to the others.

 

[Gabriel426]

He looks like he will produce wherever he is. It's up to the others.

I think as long as JT stop carrying the puck and just park in front of the net like Ovie, Willie and ROR can work magic. I think ROR is the closest C to Backstorm that Willie played with in terms of style.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Two more spectacular setups tonight, including on the GWG (5 GWGs in a row he has either scored or assisted on).

Mitch has a couple more points, but with more ice time (ES, PP, and SH), and with a clearly better centre, it's not surprising.

Actually, Willy has more goals and points at ES and at ES+PP, especially if you look at it in terms of "per 60".

 

[ZEBROA]

Two more spectacular setups tonight, including on the GWG (5 GWGs in a row he has either scored or assisted on).

Mitch has a couple more points, but with more ice time (ES, PP, and SH), and with a clearly better centre, it's not surprising.

Actually, Willy has more goals and points at ES and at ES+PP, especially if you look at it in terms of "per 60".

The question is , is Mitch having a great season compared to his other seasons or just a normal Mitch season? If it is a great season , then Nylanders season is fantastic.

Mitch should always be better then Nylander, by a lot. Not just 3points.(I know he pks, it does not make up for it).
I still think Nylander will cool down here at the end of the season and Mitch heat up and the gap will be larger. But right now i am amazed that Nylander is that close to the top players (pointwise).

But Mitch and Nylander being close in points is just a blessing, more concerned about Matthews. Depth guys realy need to step up this playoff to compensate i belive.