Management Bill Guerin

[Digitalbooya]

You're not getting my point about Hartman. What do you think 1.7M gets you on the open market? We are a cap strapped team... he is an asset as a 3rd liner at that price ,let alone a guy who is a RHS who can also play C. You don't let those guys go. If he was making 3-4M it would be a different story.

Again, he lead the team in playoff points... I mean, what are your expectations for 1.7M/yr?

All those XXXX's How do you propose to fill them in? With what cash? Where are we going to get not only one, but two, first liners to play with Kaprizov?

I understand perfectly what you said.

Ryan “good for a penalty against every game” Hartman. He’s not a good center. He sucks at faceoffs, a key point of contention for the second straight playoffs. Maybe 42% is good in your books, but it’s not in mine. He’s not top line quality. He barely plays any sort of special teams. If the reason he’s on the roster is because of his cap hit and not his play, that’s a lame ass reason.

He might be “good value” for $1.7M, but his play is not good value for his spot in the lineup. He gets absolutely diffed by the other team’s top center. Oh, Hartman had 5 points in 5 games? Hintz had 12(!) in 6 games. Hintz was also 60% on the draw. You cannot win with that being your 1C v 1C matchup.

As for the lineup, there are always bargain bin players to be signed.

If Zucc+Foligno are gone, that’s $9.1M right there. Nyquist might come cheap with a “prove it” deal. Put up or shut up time for Rossi. You could trade for a center with that amount of cap space too.

If they go into next year with virtually the same lineup, I will be beyond irate.

At least if you have guys like Rossi/Walker in, it’s a win-win situation. If you are winning, that’s great. If you are losing, hello top draft pick to help the team.

At least Hartman showed up in this series. Other than Nyquist probably our best forward.

Which is crazy, because he was almost certainly the guy who was gapped the most by his counterpart 1C on the Stars.

 

[57special]

I understand perfectly what you said.

Ryan “good for a penalty against every game” Hartman. He’s not a good center. He sucks at faceoffs, a key point of contention for the second straight playoffs. Maybe 42% is good in your books, but it’s not in mine. He’s not top line quality. He barely plays any sort of special teams. If the reason he’s on the roster is because of his cap hit and not his play, that’s a lame ass reason.

He might be “good value” for $1.7M, but his play is not good value for his spot in the lineup. He gets absolutely diffed by the other team’s top center. Oh, Hartman had 5 points in 5 games? Hintz had 12(!) in 6 games. Hintz was also 60% on the draw. You cannot win with that being your 1C v 1C matchup.

As for the lineup, there are always bargain bin players to be signed.

If Zucc+Foligno are gone, that’s $9.1M right there. Nyquist might come cheap with a “prove it” deal. Put up or shut up time for Rossi. You could trade for a center with that amount of cap space too.

If they go into next year with virtually the same lineup, I will be beyond irate.

At least if you have guys like Rossi/Walker in, it’s a win-win situation. If you are winning, that’s great. If you are losing, hello top draft pick to help the team.


Which is crazy, because he was almost certainly the guy who was gapped the most by his counterpart 1C on the Stars.

You say you get my point, but then reply with a post that shows you don't. It's not Hartman's fault( a guy who is being paid like a 4th liner, and has the talent of a 3rd liner, maybe borderline 2nd liner) that he is being played out of position That's on the management. Kaprizov is paid over 5 times what what Hartman is paid. It is not acceptable, that he outscored Kaprizov 5 to 1 in the playoffs. By your logic, Kaprizov should be the one traded, not Hartman.

I also notice how you are freely criticizing Hartman for taking penalties and not delivering(?), but not your favorite, Foligno, who is far less productive, took far more costly penalties, cannot play C, and has twice the cap hit that Hartman does.

You are right that Hartman should not be our #1C, but he had been supplanted as #1c by JEE. The only reason he was playing there was because of JEE's injury. You are blaming a vg role player on this team who makes a relative pittance for not being a #1C.... that's not on him. That's also not a reason to trade him.
I've watched a lot of Rossi, and all of the guys down in the AHL. None of them are as good as Hartman, right now. It's not really close. Steel, i can listen to an argument about, but even there... the guy makes the minimum, or close to it. He was a waiver wire pickup, with an extremely undistinguished NHL career. It's not his fault that he failed as a top 6 C, or even as a top 9 C. It's Guerin's fault for believing that he can fill that position with such players.

Your finger pointing is misplaced.

 

[Digitalbooya]

You say you get my point, but then reply with a post that shows you don't. It's not Hartman's fault( a guy who is being paid like a 4th liner, and has the talent of a 3rd liner, maybe borderline 2nd liner) that he is being played out of position That's on the management. Kaprizov is paid over 5 times what what Hartman is paid. It is not acceptable, that he outscored Kaprizov 5 to 1 in the playoffs. By your logic, Kaprizov should be the one traded, not Hartman.

I also notice how you are freely criticizing Hartman for taking penalties and not delivering(?), but not your favorite, Foligno, who is far less productive, took far more costly penalties, cannot play C, and has twice the cap hit that Hartman does.

You are right that Hartman should not be our #1C, but he had been supplanted as #1c by JEE. The only reason he was playing there was because of JEE's injury. You are blaming a vg role player on this team who makes a relative pittance for not being a #1C.... that's not on him. That's also not a reason to trade him.
I've watched a lot of Rossi, and all of the guys down in the AHL. None of them are as good as Hartman, right now. It's not really close. Steel, i can listen to an argument about, but even there... the guy makes the minimum, or close to it. He was a waiver wire pickup, with an extremely undistinguished NHL career. It's not his fault that he failed as a top 6 C, or even as a top 9 C. It's Guerin's fault for believing that he can fill that position with such players.

Your finger pointing is misplaced.

Hartman consistently put his team in a bad spot with his penalties, horrible faceoffs, skill level, etc. If he’s still on the 1st line next year, what’s the point of even watching this team? 1st round exits made easy courtesy of Hintz this year and O’Reilly last year.

Kaprizov was injured twice down the stretch and he gets the benefit of the doubt from me after last playoffs.

Foligno was #3 on my list to get rid of? Listed before Hartman. I don’t know what gave you the impression that Foligno is my favorite, but you are sorely mistaken. We are talking about Hartman because you think we should keep him and I don’t. I’m ready to move on. I also think there’s something to be said about getting value for Hartman before he walks next offseason.

I’m fine with Rossi getting thrown into the top 6. Sink or swim. He’s either good enough, or he will play a part in getting someone who is good enough to be a top 6 center. There is little left to learn in the AHL for him IMO.

I’m ready to take a step back in the name of future progress. You want to keep hammering out 1st round exits. Just two different philosophies.

 

[57special]

Hartman consistently put his team in a bad spot with his penalties, horrible faceoffs, skill level, etc. If he’s still on the 1st line next year, what’s the point of even watching this team? 1st round exits made easy courtesy of Hintz this year and O’Reilly last year.

Kaprizov was injured twice down the stretch and he gets the benefit of the doubt from me after last playoffs.

Foligno was #3 on my list to get rid of? Listed before Hartman. I don’t know what gave you the impression that Foligno is my favorite, but you are sorely mistaken. We are talking about Hartman because you think we should keep him and I don’t. I’m ready to move on. I also think there’s something to be said about getting value for Hartman before he walks next offseason.

I’m fine with Rossi getting thrown into the top 6. Sink or swim. He’s either good enough, or he will play a part in getting someone who is good enough to be a top 6 center. There is little left to learn in the AHL for him IMO.

I’m ready to take a step back in the name of future progress. You want to keep hammering out 1st round exits. Just two different philosophies.

But if Hartman is so bad, wouldn't that just help us tank?

 

[Digitalbooya]

But if Hartman is so bad, wouldn't that just help us tank?

I would like to think long term. Hartman has 1 year left on his contract. Time to figure out if Rossi has what it takes.

 

[f7ben]

I really like Hartman , as a 3rw. I’d love to sign him for another 3 years if he will take 2 million.

 

[P10p]

Hartman consistently put his team in a bad spot with his penalties, horrible faceoffs, skill level, etc. If he’s still on the 1st line next year, what’s the point of even watching this team? 1st round exits made easy courtesy of Hintz this year and O’Reilly last year.

Kaprizov was injured twice down the stretch and he gets the benefit of the doubt from me after last playoffs.

Foligno was #3 on my list to get rid of? Listed before Hartman. I don’t know what gave you the impression that Foligno is my favorite, but you are sorely mistaken. We are talking about Hartman because you think we should keep him and I don’t. I’m ready to move on. I also think there’s something to be said about getting value for Hartman before he walks next offseason.

I’m fine with Rossi getting thrown into the top 6. Sink or swim. He’s either good enough, or he will play a part in getting someone who is good enough to be a top 6 center. There is little left to learn in the AHL for him IMO.

I’m ready to take a step back in the name of future progress. You want to keep hammering out 1st round exits. Just two different philosophies.

Being ready to "take a step back in the name of future progress' doesn't really jive with throwing what could be a big piece of our future to the wolves.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Being ready to "take a step back in the name of future progress' doesn't really jive with throwing what could be a big piece of our future to the wolves.

Putting Rossi at 2C isn’t throwing him to the wolves.

 

[north21]

I really like Hartman , as a 3rw. I’d love to sign him for another 3 years if he will take 2 million.

Hartman might be looking for a payday at the end of this deal, he should make more than 2 if he can keep up his current play. He even kind of shows up in the playoffs.

 

[f7ben]

Hartman might be looking for a payday at the end of this deal, he should make more than 2 if he can keep up his current play. He even kind of shows up in the playoffs.

Well there’s a case for him completely being a product of surroundings and he also took 1.7 to stay here. Maybe he takes 2.1 to stay longer.

 

[MNRube]

I blame Evason more than Guerin. The Game 2 MAF decision was inexcusable and the desperation juggling of the lines in elimination games is something we’ve seen In back to back series.

We still have no idea how Boldy & Kaprizov mesh at 5v5. Same with Kaprizov and JEE, not nearly enough of a sample size to determine chemistry.

I will say, that the one player I feel that Guerin has mismanaged this year is Addison. He should’ve been moved at the deadline or before when all those PP assists had his value at an all-time high. Currently, his value is lower and I don’t get the impression the relationship between him and the FO is great. Seems like bad asset management 101 to me.

I’d say most of Guerin’s trades have been good. Gus, Middleton, Mojo, Nyquist, Reaves all helped this team and we see now with Faber that at least the Fiala return looks more promising than many initially thought

 

[DANOZ28]

so far i'd give guerin a B+/A- grade. i question the suter buyout (maybe could have beat him into submission) and the fiala trade (lost offense) but overall terrific job. sad / disappointing end to a fun season. we gotta improve on faceoff wins and goal scoring. after 2 more years of cap h3ll we should be a top 10 team and legit contenders

 

[Sota Popinski]

I'm out on BG after yesterday's press conference. Using the dead cap as an excuse is pretty pathetic when he was the one that made those decisions.

Then pretending there is no difference between a first round out and a second round out or conference finals or Cup Finals. I thought it was about winning?

 

[57special]

I blame Evason more than Guerin. The Game 2 MAF decision was inexcusable and the desperation juggling of the lines in elimination games is something we’ve seen In back to back series.

We still have no idea how Boldy & Kaprizov mesh at 5v5. Same with Kaprizov and JEE, not nearly enough of a sample size to determine chemistry.

I will say, that the one player I feel that Guerin has mismanaged this year is Addison. He should’ve been moved at the deadline or before when all those PP assists had his value at an all-time high. Currently, his value is lower and I don’t get the impression the relationship between him and the FO is great. Seems like bad asset management 101 to me.

I’d say most of Guerin’s trades have been good. Gus, Middleton, Mojo, Nyquist, Reaves all helped this team and we see now with Faber that at least the Fiala return looks more promising than many initially thought

100%

 

[57special]

I'm out on BG after yesterday's press conference. Using the dead cap as an excuse is pretty pathetic when he was the one that made those decisions.

Then pretending there is no difference between a first round out and a second round out or conference finals or Cup Finals. I thought it was about winning?

Deer in headlights moment for Guerin. It's like he doesn't think that there should be any uncomfortable moments when his team chokes for the 4th year in a row. I mean, they didn't even put up a fight in the last two games. To see an expansion team then beat Dallas just highlights our ineptitude.

As far as the buyout excuse...own it, man. Seeing Suter on the other team playing a goodly role on the Stars, while our Suter cap penalty and replacement sits on the bench(to the tune of 9M for the next two years) and didn't see a minute of play also doesn't speak well to his decision making.

 

[Sota Popinski]

Deer in headlights moment for Guerin. It's like he doesn't think that there should be any uncomfortable moments when his team chokes for the 4th year in a row. I mean, they didn't even put up a fight in the last two games. To see an expansion team then beat Dallas just highlights our ineptitude.

As far as the buyout excuse...own it, man. Seeing Suter on the other team playing a goodly role on the Stars, while our Suter cap penalty and replacement sits on the bench(to the tune of 9M for the next two years) and didn't see a minute of play also doesn't speak well to his decision making.

By sheer luck we should have won a series in the past four tries. The past two all-time great regular season teams lost in the first round, so anyone saying that Dallas was just the better team and it's unrealistic to expect any postseason success during these dead cap years is either lying, stupid, or both.

 

[Minnewildsota]

By sheer luck we should have won a series in the past four tries. The past two all-time great regular season teams lost in the first round, so anyone saying that Dallas was just the better team and it's unrealistic to expect any postseason success during these dead cap years is either lying, stupid, or both.

hAi, I aM StOoPid

 

[guitarhunterdude]

hAi, I aM StOoPid

Liar

 

[f7ben]

Stupid liar

 

[Minnewildsota]

Stupid liar

Love you too. Mean it.

 

[f7ben]

Love you too. Mean it.

It had to be typed , I just happen to be here to type it lol , sorry

 

[DANOZ28]

i didn't like guerin getting upset at russo's question , it was legit to ask even if unpleasant. makes me wonder if he was talking to parise & suter and just lost his cool and fired them.

 

[Digitalbooya]

i didn't like guerin getting upset at russo's question , it was legit to ask even if unpleasant. makes me wonder if he was talking to parise & suter and just lost his cool and fired them.

It did seem like he was ready to blow his top off at Russo. Just a weird sequence after a pretty calm introduction.

 

[Wild11MN]

I didn't really think it was that weird at all. It was a good question and a decent response.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Bizarre all around. We want to win a cup but 2nd round is meaningless to that effort within the scope of our goal......which is winning a cup......

huh? Too many hits to the head Bill?