Management Bill Guerin
- Thread starter BuiumSaveUs
- Start date
Just following your position. I am not moving the goalposts. Adding Wennberg/Suter is not shuffling the chairs. It's adding potential talent that fits around the age of this team. Adding Gaudreau and...uh Bjugstad? back? is the definition of shuffling the chairs.
If you believe it's actually adding talent. I don't. Those two also cost more than who we have and that is a consideration with this team now.
I completely understand wanting to upgrade the center position...I just do not believe the guys you are talking about are an upgrade.
You ask for a center that would cost around 4 million; Suter and Wennberg both hit that.
Pius Suter - 14 goals, 13 assists 27 points
Alex Wennberg - 17 goals, 12 assists 29 points. Career high is 13 goals and 46 assists for 59 points. Paces around 10 goals and 30 assists for 40 points. He's been on some bad Columbus teams and rebounded last season.
Frederick Gaudreau - 2 goals, 8 assists 10 points. Career high is 2 goals and 8 assists for 10 points. Averages around 4 goals and 10 assists for 14 points.
Marco Rossi - 0 goals, 0 assists. Career high is 0 goals and 0 assists for 0 points.
Nick Bjugstad - 6 goals, 11 assists for 17 points. Career high is 24 goals and 19 assists for 43 points. Hasn't hit double digits in goals in 4 years, and hasn't stayed healthy that long either. If he can stay healthy has paced around 14 goals and 16 assists for 30 points.
Victor Rask - 10 goals and 13 assists for 23 points last season. Career high is 21 goals and 27 assists for 48 points. Paces around 14 goals and 22 assists for 36 points.
You're telling me that Suter or Wennberg wouldn't be an upgrade to Gaudreau?
I said what good center is going to cost 4 million? Those two to me are average second line third line okay fine. But those two combined also cost $7 million Rask and Gudreau cost two million dollars. That is a consideration here. They could be an upgrade.. but I'm not saying it's a sure thing...and for 5 mil more...it should be a sure thing. We also can't do 5 mil more with Kaprizov still unsigned.
Those guys weren't going to wait...so we had to look for cheaper options.
Those guys weren't going to wait...so we had to look for cheaper options.
No...for the 4th time...I'm saying they aren't enough of an upgrade to justify the cap increase needed to get them.
And I'm again...saying that the barometer of "better than Rask" shouldn't be the barometer to upgrade a center... especially with our cap crunch.
DeagleJenkins
Registered User
Agree here, we discuss treading water and some say building on last year yet at the same time speak on how last year was against the worst of the worst teams. Going after wennberg is not the move to push us over the edge. I want an upgrade at center also but not just any upgrade.
Have to agree with the others, aside from Rossi turning into a stud none of these guys are really going give us what we need. Suter might have been interesting but we can't make him sign with us and he certainly isn't going to pushing us into contender status. Nice little re-set year for us to see where we stand playing all the teams and us getting younger, which was needed.
As soon as they signed Goligoski you just kind of new they weren't going to get any decent center, the only good news is that was a 1 year deal and Rask comes off the books next year plus a pile of other smaller contracts so we should have some ammo to go shopping. Several options next year if they hit UFA status, might be the plan and sometimes plans take longer than we want.
Wennberg being a 40-50 point second line center would have been good for this team.
Rossi - Wennberg - Eriksson-Ek in the future would have been a fantastic lineup down the middle.
DeagleJenkins
Registered User
It could easily be ek - Rossi - khovanov/Sturm next year and possibly produce similar results. We won’t know, I just don’t think wennberg is the guy to go after. It’s all gonna be built from within.
Khovanov that couldn't even play in the KHL? Sturm who couldn't play at center?
DeagleJenkins
Registered User
Sturm who can play center but as the evasion we dislike for whatever reason didn’t put him there when he looked better than Rask there
Maybe it's because they don't envision Sturm as more than a 3rd/4th line depth winger.
GuerinUp
Registered User
khovanov kept getting increased ice time in the KHL before he was demoted. He started at 3min a game, and his last game was around 16 min. regardless of the fact he was held pointless his toi increase doesnt really point to quality in play being his reason for demotion. It was also reported he had a disagreement with the coach which was the sole cause.
He's had disagreements with his coaches since his junior days. Talent alone won't get a player into the NHL...see Sheppard.
GuerinUp
Registered User
did you just say james sheppard was talented?
Most had Sheppard listed in the top 10-15 of his class. He was selected 1st round by the Screaming Eagles.
James Sheppard - Hockey's Future
Jovofan's Final 2006 NHL Mock Draft
Inside College Hockey | 2006 NHL Draft: Pre-Draft Rankings
Just because he busted with the Wild doesn't mean he didn't have talent. He clashed heavily with Lemaire (and he wasn't the only one who had problems with Lemaire). Sheppard's biggest knock was his skating, which wasn't as big of an issue back then as it is now.
As it stands, Sheppard did play 394 games in the NHL, which isn't bad for a guy that was a 'bust'.
GuerinUp
Registered User
Points don't always tell the entire story. Again Sheppard was talented, but clashed with management. There was a host of issues with Sheppard, but talent wasn't one of them.
GuerinUp
Registered User
host of issues in not being talented. Our team was garbage when he was drafted, he couldnt play higher than a 4th line center on a team that had 1 good center (koivu) the guy is playing in the DEL right now... but i dont expect anything less from the same guy who thinks veilleux was one of our best players.
Dickie Dunn
Registered User
I think we are back to where we started. Is waiting a better plan than trying? I agree that Wennberg/Suter types might not move the needle....but they also might when compared to guys like Rask/Bjugstad/Gaudreau.
So are the Wild (Guerin) waiting or trying?
So are the Wild (Guerin) waiting or trying?
MuckOG
Registered User
- May 18, 2012
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I think Guerin is realistic about where this team currently sits, but doesn't want to go full tank mode because he doesn't like the message it would send to the team. I think that he is being extremely cautious with the development of the younger players, as evidenced by all the recent 1 year signings....but also wouldn't hesitate to move (waive/trade) one of these players if a younger player forces his hand and earns a roster spot.
This might be the "boring" approach as some have suggested around here. But I think this is his plan.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
He was also rushed into the NHL, and his host of issues included having disagreements with his coach. And our team wasn't garbage when he came up. In 2006-2007, the Wild were a playoff team, and in 2007-2007, the Wild won the Northwest. If you don't think Sheppard was talented (which is one of the reasons why he was taken in the top 10 of the NHL draft), you can't differentiate between development and drafting.
Also Veilleux was one of our better third-line forwards in team history, which this team struggled to develop properly after trading Clutterbuck. Do you remember the host of players that Fletcher tried to get in here to play the third and fourth lines and couldn't? Veilleux played 506 games, which is 31st best in his draft class. He was also a 3rd rounder, which according to this board is hard to find a good player from.
This is sort of approach that also puts Minnesota in a position to draft a guy like Luke Kunin instead of a guy like Tkachuk or Dubois.
