Best player in the world: 2018

[Dallas Winston]

Indeed Ovechkin's team spanked Malkin in the second round.

Ovie was great in that series - 3 game winning back breaking late 3rd period or OT goals were either scored or set up by Ovie.



Ovechkin's 2018 regular season + playoffs was better than Crosby's 2017.

Lmfao are you serious

 

[AndreRoy]

Insulting ones intelligence is an ad hominem attack.

Others pointing out your homerism isn't.

The team I root for has nothing to do with the points I’ve raised, nor does pointing it out refute them. Unfortunately it seems few in this thread have the intellectual capacity for rational debate. Fortunately there’s a way of dealing with such people so that they (and you) no longer waste my time. Goodbye!

 

[Senor Catface]

Ad hominem attacks are also not a valid argument. I see we have yet another “genius” in this thread.

The team I root for has nothing to do with the points I’ve raised, nor does pointing it out refute them. Unfortunately it seems few in this thread have the intellectual capacity for rational debate. Fortunately there’s a way of dealing with such people so that they (and you) no longer waste my time. Goodbye!

 

[wetcoast]

Yes, I get it.....but I simply don't buy the argument. I think it's fine if we are using it as a tiebreaker type thing....but I think Kuch separated himself enough where we really shouldn't get to this level of detail.

It's kind of early because you are talking about next season but like I said upthread no one is seriously taking anyone over McDavid in a one year throw them in the poll no salary cap league.

McDavid was young and still climbing his talent mountain and everyone would take him as he would be the guy who could explode.

That level of detail for Kuch pretty shows that it was a perfect storm season for him and his line mates and that he would almost certainty go back to being a 100ish point guy.

 

[daver]

It's kind of early because you are talking about next season but like I said upthread no one is seriously taking anyone over McDavid in a one year throw them in the poll no salary cap league.

McDavid was young and still climbing his talent mountain and everyone would take him as he would be the guy who could explode.

That level of detail for Kuch pretty shows that it was a perfect storm season for him and his line mates and that he would almost certainty go back to being a 100ish point guy.

In 16/17, a 23 year old Kucherov was 3rd in PPG and was matching McDavid in PPG until the last couple of weeks of the season. In 17/18, a 24 year old Kucherov was the leading scorer until Game 72.

He was not a Top 3- 5ish scorer (as your "100ish point guy" implies", he was an Art Ross threat going into the 18/19 season as much as anyone including McDavid. Perhaps his points were inflated a bit due to the team he was on but the level of detail to move him down below McDavid is not reasonable.

Based on the voting trend by most of the posters so far, Kucherov should win the next season.

The focus on PP points is interesting as McDavid has become a lot more reliant on PP points since his earlier years.

 

[Albatros]

Regarding inflated, Kucherov had eight hours fewer ice time in those two years.

 

[daver]

Regarding inflated, Kucherov had eight hours fewer ice time in those two years.

In 17/18, McDavid's PPG in games where he played under 21 minutes was 1.74 (61 points in 35 games), In 18/19, McDavid's PPG in games where he played under 21 minutes was 1.61 (42 points in 26 games).

I wonder if TOI has zero correlation with point totals because you play your star player less when you are winning?

 

[TheStatican]

It was a close one but Crosby won it over McDavid.

Noice! That makes it 9 out of 19 years where a Penguin was the leagues best player, truly a time when all was right with the world. And it probably be 15/16 out of 29 years if you started all the way back from '88.

Poor Hall, obviously not the best player in the world but having less than 2% of the vote has got to be the worst result yet for a Hart winner in these polls.

 

[Albatros]

In 17/18, McDavid's PPG in games where he played under 21 minutes was 1.74 (61 points in 35 games), In 18/19, McDavid's PPG in games where he played under 21 minutes was 1.61 (42 points in 26 games).

I wonder if TOI has zero correlation with point totals because you play your star player less when you are winning?

For sure that's sometimes a thing, but he seems to have actually played more in games won in 17/18. Probably also has to do with the Oilers not having had any real playoff hopes at the time. For whatever reason he's played a ton especially against the big market Metropolitan teams.

 

[daver]

For sure that's sometimes a thing, but he seems to have actually played more in games won in 17/18. Probably also has to do with the Oilers not having had any real playoff hopes at the time. For whatever reason he's played a ton especially against the big market Metropolitan teams.

I think the TOI argument is meaningless. If they switch teams that year, Kucherov's TOI goes up and McDavid's goes down. But this should not have any real affect on their scoring levels.

It is a false flag.

 

[Albatros]

Kucherov was Tampa's most lethal ES scorer but only played 16 minutes a night, I think it's very likely that he would have scored some more with a couple of minutes more ice time.

 

[Paper]

The last couple and next 5 years will be pretty easy. It's the polls after those that get hard.

 

[daver]

Kucherov was Tampa's most lethal ES scorer but only played 16 minutes a night, I think it's very likely that he would have scored some more with a couple of minutes more ice time.

And McDavid definitely scores more if he were on TB's Powerplay.

That's the issue with playing around with hypothetical scenarios, there are unlimited subjective interpretations.

 

[Albatros]

By 18/19 he was stapled to Draisaitl and Nugent-Hopkins on PP, that's not really less privileged than Stamkos and Point.

 

[bobholly39]

This nonsense again?? I see you’ve slightly altered it from “desperately needing to score more goals” to “desperately needing to perform”, so perhaps our last tumble got through to you a little.

You keep talking about how you didn’t like McDavid that season and it’s completely ridiculous.

He had 10 goals and 25 points in the first 20 games of the season. They were 7-11-2. They scored 50 goals, which means he factored in on 50% of them. He contributed 50% of their offense and 20% of their goals scored, but you want him to do more. Yeah, okay.

The Oilers let up 4 or more goals 8 times in those 20 games and lost all of them. Ala current day, what is scoring a few more goals and some more points going to do to reverse those losses where defense and goaltending melted down over and over?

The Oilers had 3 OT wins during that opening quarter. McDavid scored or assisted on all three. McDavid scored and assisted on 3 straight goals to pull them out of 2-0 hole in Game 20 and give them the lead until Talbot let in 4 goals over the remaining half of the game.

They let up 4 or more in 12 of the next 28 games through the All-Star break. They won 1 of those. They won 1 of those games. They finished up by allowing 4 or more in 11 of their remaining 33 games. Again, when a team lets up 4-8 goals in 40% of their games, it’s going to be a struggle to compile a good record and scoring some more points in the first half isn’t going to reverse any of those results.

And on and on on, if we picked through each and every game of the season.

They had 135 goals through the All-Star break. 2 of those were shootout goals which don’t count (McDavid scored the winner in one of them). That’s 40.6% of their offense. How many of those 12 games that they lost when letting up 4-8 goals are they winning during that stretch where McDavid was PPG and the team went 15-13-1? He slumped from about Christmas to the All-Star break no doubt about it…but again, how many more games do the Oilers really win if he scores even 8 more goals and 15 points during that stretch? They had far far greater issues, as they always seem to.

Only a select few can look at the troubles the Oilers had (and still do after all these years) and not see that there was something else desperately wrong when McDavid potted 26 goals and 54 points over the final 33 games and it only resulted in a 14-16-3 finish.

He ultimately contributed to 47.2% of their offense and scored 18% of their total goals for the season.

Momentum is a real thing in hockey. By mid year Edmonton was already sucking and not gonna win games.

My issue with McDavids season is - lets use your own words. You say "he potted 54 points in final 33 games and Oilers were still 2 games under 500". Id have liked to see him pot 54 points in the first 33 games instead, where maybe his super strong plays leads to a win or a second and that momentum carries them to a better record than 2 games under 500 to start the year.

You're being too literal when you look at a 5-1 loss in october and say "even if McDavid scored 2 more goals they lose 5-3 so who cares". In an actual game - momentum. If in that 5-1 loss McDavid had set up 2 quick goals for Oilers to take a 2-0 lead, good chance momentum leads to a win vs a 5-1 loss

Best player in 2018 - McDavid (Kuch is close).

Mvp/hart? No way, not McDavid for 1.

 

[bobholly39]

I understand where you're come from, but McDavid's play until the all-star game was still really strong. The Oilers just sucked.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Time Period[/TD]
[TD]EVP[/TD]
[TD]Primary Points[/TD]
[TD]% Team Offense[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Pre All-Star Break (49 games)[/TD]
[TD]40 (3rd in NHL)[/TD]
[TD]36 (10th in NHL)[/TD]
[TD]40.6%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Post All-Star Break (33 games)[/TD]
[TD]44 (1st by 10)[/TD]
[TD]44 (1st by 7 points)[/TD]
[TD]56.3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

His 40.6% in the first half of the season still leads the league. Sure, his raw totals don't jump out, but the Oilers were a dumpster fire offensively.

The Oilers were bad in the first half too, but McDavid went supernova in the last 30ish games, reaching a level he only hit again in 2020-21 and 2022-23.

McDavid was still the best player in the first half of the season. It's just he did it on a terrible Oilers team.

Isn't scoring 40% of your teams goals more a reflection of what your team does or doesnt do when you're not on the ice? It has less to do with him directly or his own performance.

In your own table you show he's 10th in primary points by all star break. Even though we both agree he's the best player (not best season), and in a year where his team was majorly underperforming and could have used a boost of a better McDavid contribution. 10th isnt very good?

If McDavid had "gone supernova" in the first ~30ish games instead...and then dropped to norm to end season instead (maybe bc his team still sucked and was far from playoffs) id like his season a lot better and genuinely consider him for hart. The narrative would be "wow, look at how good McDavid did to try and pull his team to success, but even he couldnt drag a putrid Oilers team in playoffs spot". As it is, Oilers sucked while McDavid was far from league leaders in points.

McDavid 2018 is my least favorite season for him (discounting rookie year). Its obviously still a great season overall - but a bad season for McDavid based on his own extremely high standards.

 

[Dallas Winston]

Voted kucherov
Mcdavid scoring a bunch of points while his team is eliminated and you can bet your money it became his and the oilers mandate to win him the art ross

 

[bobholly39]

Ovechkin's 2018 regular season + playoffs was better than Crosby's 2017.

1. Even if that were true this has nothing to do with 2018 and still in no way justifies voting Ovechkin here

2. But its obviously not true. Id absolutely love to hear your rationale for it though.

Ovechkin fans are truly the worst on HF. Just a select few, but complete nonesense posts. You can argue rationally with most other fanbases, but its only ever with Ovechkin fans you get into nonsense like this.

 

[daver]

Isn't scoring 40% of your teams goals more a reflection of what your team does or doesnt do when you're not on the ice? It has less to do with him directly or his own performance.

This can serve as a bit of a tiebreaker when point totals are similar. When your team clearly relies on your offense an you produce, it is a positive. But it really isn't a reason to move a player up in scoring.

There isn't a reason to believe that McDavid's 13 place in scoring after 49 games isn't reflective of his level of play.

By 18/19 he was stapled to Draisaitl and Nugent-Hopkins on PP, that's not really less privileged than Stamkos and Point.

You can bring this up in the next poll.

To clarify, you think that Kucherov would have put up more points if he played with the Oilers in 17/18 and got more icetime?

 

[Midnight Judges]

Ovechkin fans are truly the worst on HF. Just a select few, but complete nonesense posts. You can argue rationally with most other fanbases, but its only ever with Ovechkin fans you get into nonsense like this.

Ha! How many Ovechkin fans voted for Ovechkin in 2005-06? I'll give you a hint: It's half as many Crosby homers, except Ovechkin had a clearly better case.

In that season the media voters chose Ovechkin 120-something to 4 over Crosby for the Calder. A solid 30-35% of hfboards would be among that 4. In fact it was 30% in the history forum. For you that feels normal but just know that it isn't.

I recall you once claiming Ovechkin's 30-some goals /80-some points 2011 season was a "huge disappointment" and in the very same post when Crosby put up 30-some goals and 80-some points for basically four straight seasons you described it as "amazing consistency!" Like two paragraphs down.

The Ovechkin homerism on hfboards is a fraction of the Crosby homerism.

1. Even if that were true this has nothing to do with 2018 and still in no way justifies voting Ovechkin here

2. But its obviously not true. Id absolutely love to hear your rationale for it though.

The rationale is that they had basically the same points (reg season + playoffs - 116 to 114) but Ovechkin had 12 more goals (64 to 52). There was a roughly 7% change in the scoring environment too that improves Sid's season. Ovie also adds a physical presence on the ice. Their defensive contributions were the same. Actually Sid played more sheltered minutes than Ovie did with a higher offensive zone start percentage while also not penalty killing (although Sid somehow did get credit for penalty killing in the Canadian media).

 

[Toby91ca]

Ha! How many Ovechkin fans voted for Ovechkin in 2005-06? I'll give you a hint: It's half as many Crosby homers, except Ovechkin had a clearly better case.

In that season the media voters chose Ovechkin 120-something to 4 over Crosby for the Calder. A solid 30-35% of hfboards would be among that 4. In fact it was 30% in the history forum. For you that feels normal but just know that it isn't.

I recall you once claiming Ovechkin's 30-some goals /80-some points 2011 season was a "huge disappointment" and in the very same post when Crosby put up 30-some goals and 80-some points for basically four straight seasons you described it as "amazing consistency!" Like two paragraphs down.

The Ovechkin homerism on hfboards is a fraction of the Crosby homerism.



The rationale is that they had basically the same points (reg season + playoffs - 116 to 114) but Ovechkin had 12 more goals (64 to 52). There was a roughly 7% change in the scoring environment too that improves Sid's season. Ovie also adds a physical presence on the ice. Their defensive contributions were the same. Actually Sid played more sheltered minutes than Ovie did with a higher offensive zone start percentage while also not penalty killing (although Sid somehow did get credit for penalty killing in the Canadian media).

I don't even know where to start, but I'll try.

1 - Crosby getting more votes than Ovechkin in 2005/06 poll really, really bothers you for some reason. It's probably simply due to him having more fans than Ovechkin, I don't know. Crosby fans being more homers than Ovechkin's? Doubtful....I'd suggest they are about the same there....just like fans of any other players. The point here though is that it really doesn't matter....neither one of them should have been voted as the best player that year and the vast majority didn't vote for them.....so who cares?

2 - Ovechkin scoring 32 goals after averaging more than 50 for the first 5 years of his career was a disappointment. I wasn't one yelling from the mountains about being disappointment in Ovechkin and then claiming super consistency for Crosby during that 4 year period either....however, there is a difference. Perhaps it depends on how vocal someone is about it.....putting Ovechkin way down and building Crosby way up? That wouldn't be a big deal for a fan of one player vs. the other, but there was a difference here. Scoring was way down in those 4 years....Crosby was scoring in the 80's, which doesn't seem great, but it was good for 3rd, 3rd, 2nd and 10th overall in scoring each of those years....cumulatively over that 4 year period he was 1st overall in scoring (5th in goals).

On the point with Ovechkin being better in in 2018 than Crosby in 2017, you still haven't really addressed the question. Yes, they had similar points, but Crosby slightly more points in fewer games. But that bigger part is overall scoring, you suggest Crosby benefiting by a 7% change in scoring which I don't get.....Crosby was near the top of the league in scoring, was near the top of voting in the major awards and Ovechkin was not near the top of scoring or major awards.....the only argument you make is that Ovechkin scored more goals and was more physical. You mention they contributed the same on defense, which I won't bother arguing because you'll just talk about a Cdn media conspiracy and it really doesn't matter anyway.....Crosby did everything and won everything Ovechkin did except more....so I don't get the argument.

 

[wetcoast]

In 16/17, a 23 year old Kucherov was 3rd in PPG and was matching McDavid in PPG until the last couple of weeks of the season. In 17/18, a 24 year old Kucherov was the leading scorer until Game 72.

He was not a Top 3- 5ish scorer (as your "100ish point guy" implies", he was an Art Ross threat going into the 18/19 season as much as anyone including McDavid. Perhaps his points were inflated a bit due to the team he was on but the level of detail to move him down below McDavid is not reasonable.

Based on the voting trend by most of the posters so far, Kucherov should win the next season.

The focus on PP points is interesting as McDavid has become a lot more reliant on PP points since his earlier years.

There is way too much focus on points here and not on the actual question.

 

[Video Nasty]

Momentum is a real thing in hockey. By mid year Edmonton was already sucking and not gonna win games.

My issue with McDavids season is - lets use your own words. You say "he potted 54 points in final 33 games and Oilers were still 2 games under 500". Id have liked to see him pot 54 points in the first 33 games instead, where maybe his super strong plays leads to a win or a second and that momentum carries them to a better record than 2 games under 500 to start the year.

You're being too literal when you look at a 5-1 loss in october and say "even if McDavid scored 2 more goals they lose 5-3 so who cares". In an actual game - momentum. If in that 5-1 loss McDavid had set up 2 quick goals for Oilers to take a 2-0 lead, good chance momentum leads to a win vs a 5-1 loss

Best player in 2018 - McDavid (Kuch is close).

Mvp/hart? No way, not McDavid for 1.

I’m not going to downplay your momentum point. Things don’t exist inside a vacuum and it’s an argument I make myself plenty of times.

The problem is that you addressed nothing about defense and goaltending. We’ve seen better, more mature McDavid superhuman efforts crumble and go to waste, due to these things.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I don't even know where to start, but I'll try.

1 - Crosby getting more votes than Ovechkin in 2005/06 poll really, really bothers you for some reason.

It is solid evidence of significant bias.

It's not that Crosby is getting more votes than Ovechkin - it's that he got any votes at all - over Thornton and over Jagr especially. There is no thinking or rational basis behind that. It's simply "Crosby is my guy" and nothing more.

 

[Midnight Judges]

On the point with Ovechkin being better in in 2018 than Crosby in 2017, you still haven't really addressed the question. Yes, they had similar points, but Crosby slightly more points in fewer games. But that bigger part is overall scoring, you suggest Crosby benefiting by a 7% change in scoring which I don't get.....

It's the other way around. Scoring was approximately 7% higher in 2018 relative to 2017. So this adjusts Crosby's season to be relatively better.