Best defending defensemen all-time?

[ps241]

I'm bored rn and this is kinda born out of the pet peeve of mine that nobody voting for the norris seems to care about defensive play anymore. Maybe I'm just stuck in a time long past, but I like my defenders being able to shut down top opponents - and not by just by way of having the puck. So who were the best when the opponent had the puck/when their team was in the d-zone? So basically exclude offensive play (passing, shooting etc.)

80s onward, cuz I don't know many players before that. Just of the top of my head, so order is subject to change:

1. Pronger
2. Bourque
3. Lidström
4. Chelios
5. Langway
in the discussion: Potvin, Stevens, Hatcher, Chara, .........

Orr was phenomenal at defending when he had to, but he also had to defend less because the puck was always on his stick. Its why Bobby was and still is the GOAT.

 

[NYRfan85]

Lidstrom, Pronger, and Langway come to mind as the best of the best when it comes to defending.

One of the more underrated defensive d-men has to be Ken Daneyko. Spent his entire 20 year career with the Devils, won 3 Cups, and only scored 36 career goals. He was a rock in front of the net.

 

[Duffy13]

My issue with Orr is that he played in an era where the NHL went from 6 to 18 teams within a few years.

I just don't see how he is considered the best all time when he played against competition where 2/3rds of the league was basically 90's expansion teams Ottawa, Tampa, and San Jose, until Philadelphia decided they had enough and started to beat the crap out of the competition.

	GP​	G​	A​	PTS​	Plus Minus
vs O6​	308​	105​	248​	353​	163​
vs Expansion​	405​	187​	432​	619​	449​

But defensive defensemen
Robinson
Ludwig
Howe
Langway
Doug Wilson was underrated
Brad McCrimmon

 

[Craig Ludwig]

Montreal had a dynamic duo, and no it wasn't the big three in the 70s. Craig Ludwig and Rick Green.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Giordano is a solid 2nd for me

...second on his team?

 

[jigglysquishy]

My issue with Orr is that he played in an era where the NHL went from 6 to 18 teams within a few years.

I just don't see how he is considered the best all time when he played against competition where 2/3rds of the league was basically 90's expansion teams Ottawa, Tampa, and San Jose, until Philadelphia decided they had enough and started to beat the crap out of the competition.

	GP​	G​	A​	PTS​	Plus Minus
vs O6​	308​	105​	248​	353​	163​
vs Expansion​	405​	187​	432​	619​	449​

Vs 06 is a per 82 of

28 G 66 A 94 P +43

It's no longer +100 comedic, but it's still a crazy level. If you do this for everyone in the era it's still at the comedic level.

 

[Kingspiracy]

No love for prime Doughty?

 

[ESH]

...second on his team?

Yes if you look at my original post I was clearly talking about only Flames players

 

[Silky Johnson]

My issue with Orr is that he played in an era where the NHL went from 6 to 18 teams within a few years.

I just don't see how he is considered the best all time when he played against competition where 2/3rds of the league was basically 90's expansion teams Ottawa, Tampa, and San Jose, until Philadelphia decided they had enough and started to beat the crap out of the competition.

	GP​	G​	A​	PTS​	Plus Minus
vs O6​	308​	105​	248​	353​	163​
vs Expansion​	405​	187​	432​	619​	449​

But defensive defensemen
Robinson
Ludwig
Howe
Langway
Doug Wilson was underrated
Brad McCrimmon

So by those stats he is averaging 94 points and a +44 per 82 games play, against the top 1/3 of the league...that's pretty amazing.

Over the same time period Orr was 1.53 P/GP. Potvin was second at 1.08 and Park was third at 0.87.

Orr was also an average +82 over a 82 game span. Second was Robinson at +65 and S. Savard was 3rd at +53.

He put up insane point totals against the best competition and separated himself against from the competition as well as any defenseman.

Edit. He also won 8 Norris, 3 Hart, 2 Art Ross, 2 Conn Smyth and the Calder...

 

[Mandar]

The lack of recognition for Brad Park is sad indeed.

 

[Silky Johnson]

The lack of recognition for Brad Park is sad indeed.

Sort of. He was a great defenceman but Orr was just so much better at everything during the same time period that he can't be found at the top of any lists.

 

[Mandar]

Sort of. He was a great defenceman but Orr was just so much better at everything during the same time period that he can't be found at the top of any lists.

Don’t disagree…but then I see some of the names being thrown out here….

 

[Bear of Bad News]

You could put forth an argument for Park if you'd like.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Don’t disagree…but then I see some of the names being thrown out here….

Agreed.

 

[Ezpz]

Half of these lists are listing poor man's Larry Robinson's like pronger without crediting the man himself.

 

[The don godfather]

Mcdonagh number 1.

 

[57special]

Horton, Laperriere, Robinson, Lidstrom...maybe Langway( a bit clunky footed), Stevens, Lidstrom. Right now, I'm not sure who. Maybe Slavin? Brodin is great, but his value is more all over the ice, same as Orr, Bourque, and a few others.

Never saw Shore, or a young Harvey. I'm not sure that Harvey was the best defender in his own zone on his own team...that might've been Tom Johnson.

 

[jfhabs]

In his prime Chara woud be a worthy choice.

Right now I would go with Slevin, Ekblad, or Pietroangelo.

Ekblad doesn't belong with Slavin and Pietrangelo.

 

[jfhabs]

Mcdonagh number 1.

Best for active career I think.
Slavin, Pietrangelo, Lindholm, Ekholm, Parayko, Brodin, Tanev.
Potential next wave : Seider, Sanderson, Faber, Guhle, Vlasic

 

[NickyFotiu]

Langway had a few seasons where he seemed to be a brick wall.

 

[PB37]

My issue with Orr is that he played in an era where the NHL went from 6 to 18 teams within a few years.

I just don't see how he is considered the best all time when he played against competition where 2/3rds of the league was basically 90's expansion teams Ottawa, Tampa, and San Jose, until Philadelphia decided they had enough and started to beat the crap out of the competition.

	GP​	G​	A​	PTS​	Plus Minus
vs O6​	308​	105​	248​	353​	163​
vs Expansion​	405​	187​	432​	619​	449​

But defensive defensemen
Robinson
Ludwig
Howe
Langway
Doug Wilson was underrated
Brad McCrimmon

We can only compare the greatness of a player versus how they dominated his peers. IMO that's how you judge and compare players from different generations by how they stacked up against the rest of their current day competition and compare THAT. There's too many generational variables that players had to deal with as you move across time that it becomes impossible to really know how Orr would fair with today's skates, technology, and medical advancements or if Chara would have ran rough shod over the 1950s or if the training methods of those days would have also had an impact on his.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

In no particular order:

Hajt
Lidstrom
Chara
Savard
Langway
Robinson

There’s a level of achievement that is reach where the bar has been met and no one is superior to the others.

 

[tiburon12]

There needs to be more talk around prime Vlasic. Don't let his steep decline detract from how incredible the middle stage of his career was.

 

[karltonian]

There needs to be more talk around prime Vlasic. Don't let his steep decline detract from how incredible the middle stage of his career was.

Even his early career was awesome, he made the team at 19 out of camp and played 22 minutes a night for a contender.

 

[Oneiro]

Post 80s: Lidstrom, Chelios and Stevens way ahead of everyone else. Then Pronger, Bourque, Chara, Vlasic.

I can't speak to Harvey, Robinson, Potvin, etc.

These days it's Slavin. McDonaugh for a time as well. There are other guys like Tanev and Greene who were great but need to be slotted correctly - you're probably are not a very good team if he is playing 25+ minutes in the playoffs.

Also think Pronger's rep is inflated to a small degree because of narratives and his persona.