OT: Bears & NFL Talk 97

[ClydeLee]

In his second year Trubisky had 3600 yards and 27 TDs in 14 games, fields has 3000 and 20 this season in 12 games.

OK?

 

[Illinihockey]

Now do rushing yards. Or does that not apply here?

I wonder if this is what Bills fans use to crap on Ravens fans with Allen vs Jackson debate with Josh Allen throwing over 4,000 yards now going on 4 times, 30+ TD passes going on 4 times and Lamar Jackson never hitting the 4,000 mark and only the 30+ TD passes once. Meanwhile Lamar is working on his second MVP trophy.

That includes rushing and passing yards and TDs

OK?

So what he said was factually incorrect

 

[HeisenBaez]

From Jeremy Fowler/Courtney Cronin report from ESPN:

“If the Bears traded the first pick, the return could be immense. Several executives agree Chicago could net more than it did in the Panthers trade, and from a prospective trade partner already picking in the top five. Those execs believe the price to get to No. 1 could be two future first-rounders on top of this year’s pick, along with a variation of a Day 2 pick and/or a premium veteran player on a manageable contract.”

2 firsts, a day 2 pick and a quality player to flip first round picks this year? If the Bears get anywhere near this for 1/1, I can pretty much guarantee you Poles will trade the pick.

 

[hawksrule]

In his second year Trubisky had 3600 yards and 27 TDs in 14 games, fields has 3000 and 20 this season in 12 games.

Ah, so you’re cherry picking various seasons to try to make your point. If you think the Trubisky is better than Fields I don’t know what to tell you other than I can’t take your opinion seriously.

 

[Romang67]

Fields simply doesn't statistically compare as favorably to early seasons Trubisky as people would like. I understand it. I like Fields the person too. But his stats don't compare favorably to that many QBs in the NFL.

 

[Illinihockey]

Ah, so you’re cherry picking various seasons to try to make your point. If you think the Trubisky is better than Fields I don’t know what to tell you other than I can’t take your opinion seriously.

In his theirs season Mitch had 3300 yards and 19 TDs. We’ll see fields can put up 300 yards of offense on Sunday. If so he can hit the lofty heights of Mitch Trubisky

 

[hawksrule]

From Jeremy Fowler/Courtney Cronin report from ESPN:



2 firsts, a day 2 pick and a quality player to flip first round picks this year? If the Bears get anywhere near this for 1/1, I can pretty much guarantee you Poles will trade the pick.

To get that and stay in the top 5 would be incredible.

 

[Illinihockey]

Noted bust Baker Mayfield had 3800 yards and 27 TDs as a rookie in 14 games. That would be Fields best season by a sizeable margin

 

[ClydeLee]

That includes rushing and passing yards and TDs



So what he said was factually incorrect

There's a lot of, we'll known to anyone here with a memory context here. What are you attempting to say about Trubisky having more passing yards?

That he had an playcaller who was pass happy. The Bears have run over 500 times already this year. Trubisky had designed runs and scrambles too, not as much yeah.(forgot to say, point is they had like mid 400s runs 2018. They had less than 400 at all in 2019) 2018 was a very good year for the team though, things were better than any fields year.

Stats like that are meaningless without context. It's like posting +/-

Mainly Trubisly shouldn't of thrown that much. He only did because he had way more attempts because his HC/playcaller was a fool.

 

[Romang67]

There's a lot of, we'll known to anyone here with a memory context here. What are you attempting to say about Trubisky having more passing yards?

That he had an playcaller who was pass happy. The Bears have run over 500 times already this year. Trubisky had designed runs and scrambles too, not as much yeah. 2018 was a very good year for the team though, things were better than any fields year.

Stats like that are meaningless without context. It's like posting +/-

Mainly Trubisly shouldn't of thrown that much. He only did because he had way more attempts because his HC/playcaller was a fool.

Fields also doesn't favorably to Trubisky in net yards per attempt or adjusted net yards per attempt.

I also think that Fields is better than year 3 Trubisky was. But I'd be lying if I didn't admit it's worrisome that there isn't much statistically backing it up. At all.

 

[TLEH]

2 firsts, a day 2 pick and a quality player to flip first round picks this year? If the Bears get anywhere near this for 1/1, I can pretty much guarantee you Poles will trade the pick.

You haven't shown the ability to have a coherent conversation about this and are too emotionally invested. You legit wanted the Panthers to win. In your wishful scenario we don't even have a chance to receive this fabled compensation.

Fields also doesn't favorably to Trubisky in net yards per attempt or adjusted net yards per attempt.

I also think that Fields is better than year 3 Trubisky was. But I'd be lying if I didn't admit it's worrisome that there isn't much statistically backing it up. At all.

Comparing Fields passing vs Trubisky passing really isn't all that fair as it completely ignores the rushing upside. I think Fields is better than Trubisky but I don't think the gap is really THAT large, truthfully.

 

[Romang67]

Fields also hasn't, contrary to popular opinion, had a late season resurgence. The defense has. Fields's numbers have stayed around the same.

You haven't shown the ability to have a coherent conversation about this and are too emotionally invested. You legit wanted the Panthers to win.


Comparing Fields passing vs Trubisky passing really isn't all that fair as it completely ignores the rushing upside. I think Fields is better than Trubisky but I don't think the gap is really THAT large, truthfully.

Yeah, it's a big plus, but I wonder if it actually covers the gap. Fields's success rate (basically a measure of whether he gained "enough" yards on first, second, third down) with his legs is good. It's over 50%. His success rate with his arm is atrocious. It's stayed consistent under 40% all three seasons. His passing game is so bad, and it has been so neutralized by the blitz and the zone even in this season, I'm pretty much beyond thinking that will change.

I too hope Fields improves. Quite frankly, I hope he improves even if it's not with the Bears because I like and wish success on Fields the person. But it's hope, and pretty much nothing else.

 

[TLEH]

I could talk about this everyday for a long time. Its such a fun convo.

 

[Illinihockey]

There's a lot of, we'll known to anyone here with a memory context here. What are you attempting to say about Trubisky having more passing yards?

That he had an playcaller who was pass happy. The Bears have run over 500 times already this year. Trubisky had designed runs and scrambles too, not as much yeah.(forgot to say, point is they had like mid 400s runs 2018. They had less than 400 at all in 2019) 2018 was a very good year for the team though, things were better than any fields year.

Stats like that are meaningless without context. It's like posting +/-

Mainly Trubisly shouldn't of thrown that much. He only did because he had way more attempts because his HC/playcaller was a fool.

fields has 354 passing attempts this season (29.5/game), Trubisky had 434 in 14 games in 2018 (31/game). Fields would have a lot more pass attempts if he didn’t routinely turn 5-7 pass plays per game into run plays because he doesn’t throw the ball.

 

[TLEH]

Ignoring the QB convo. Regardless of that, should Flus be back?

 

[Illinihockey]

Ignoring the QB convo. Regardless of that, should Flus be back?

For me, no. The bears lost 3 games where they had a 90%+ chance of winning in the 4th quarter. That’s coaching. To the larger point if you keep Flus then you run into the Lovie situation where the only OC candidates you get are young and inexperienced or old and washed up. I think a lot of defensive coordinators could come in and succeed with the defense as currently constructed.

 

[ClydeLee]

Fields also hasn't, contrary to popular opinion, had a late season resurgence. The defense has. Fields's numbers have stayed around the same.

Yeah, it's a big plus, but I wonder if it actually covers the gap. Fields's success rate (basically a measure of whether he gained "enough" yards on first, second, third down) with his legs is good. It's over 50%. His success rate with his arm is atrocious. It's stayed consistent under 40% all three seasons. His passing game is so bad, and it has been so neutralized by the blitz and the zone even in this season, I'm pretty much beyond thinking that will change.

I too hope Fields improves. Quite frankly, I hope he improves even if it's not with the Bears because I like and wish success on Fields the person. But it's hope, and pretty much nothing else.

The blitz situation is why I'm not even pro keeping Getsy for continuity. If there was value to having an offensive system stay, it's that you can do adjusting on the fly. But they don't at the end of year 2... so why would it be that Getsy does this in year 3. They never have option routes of guys going where blitzes leave gaps. Ever. Most teams you see do it.

Should he be back, no, should Flus be bad no. Will they? Oddly i think a last game vs the Packers will decide it.

If it's anything but a blown lead loss, I think Flus returns. If he blows another loss, and to the Packers letting them into the playoffs. I think that will push him out, otherwise he stays

 

[TLEH]

For me, no. The bears lost 3 games where they had a 90%+ chance of winning in the 4th quarter. That’s coaching. To the larger point if you keep Flus then you run into the Lovie situation where the only OC candidates you get are young and inexperienced or old and washed up. I think a lot of defensive coordinators could come in and succeed with the defense as currently constructed.

I mean both Ron Rivera and Staley got fired this year and they got Bienemy and Kellen Moore last year, so not sure the OC thing is a problem. You could say Flus has picked some bad coordinators and I would agree with you there.

I think he personally should be let go due to the 4th quarter collapses, losing 14 straight games and overall uneven play, but likely acknowledge he won't unless they collapse in GB.

 

[Romang67]

Ignoring the QB convo. Regardless of that, should Flus be back?

If he is, is he brought back because the defense has been picking off everything in the air like some kind of freakish lizard-bear the past 5 weeks, or because he has managed to keep the locker room seemingly extremely close knit and supportive despite the mediocre streak?

Because one of those things doesn't really translate from season to season. But I am genuine surprised by how much the team seems to like each other. Sweat commented on it when he came in, and he was traded to a 2-6 team.

To be clear, I think those would be the reasons to keep him. The reasons to fire him are numerous.

 

[Romang67]

The blitz situation is why I'm not even pro keeping Getsy for continuity. If there was value to having an offensive system stay, it's that you can do adjusting on the fly. But they don't at the end of year 2... so why would it be that Getsy does this in year 3. They never have option routes of guys going where blitzes leave gaps. Ever. Most teams you see do it.

Should he be back, no, should Flus be bad no. Will they? Oddly i think a last game vs the Packers will decide it.

If it's anything but a blown lead loss, I think Flus returns. If he blows another loss, and to the Packers letting them into the playoffs. I think that will push him out, otherwise he stays

The Getsy situation is weird. I think he's been a really bad OC for Fields, but I can't see keeping Fields and having him learn a third playbook going into year 4. On the other hand, you can't really keep him even if you keep Fields because they just don't think offensive football the same way.

 

[TLEH]

The eyes and statistics tell me why they run so many screens and that is because it forces you to get the ball out against the blitz. You can definitely say Getsy and Fields don't work well together while also acknowledging that aspects of his play aren't conducive to modern NFL football (quick game).

But then how do you have Fields learn a completely new offense in year 4 and get a genuine evaluation? Even really good QBs in the NFL struggle year 1 in a new offense. Which is why him struggling so bad this year in Year 2 of the offense was disappointing.

 

[Romang67]

There are genuinely a fair number of fun things to discuss about the the team unrelated to the #1 draft pick and the QB situation. The coaching, Poles's first two draft classes, the upcoming draft, Poles's FA acquisitions, the trades.

And oh yeah, the season isn't actually over yet.

Since the QB situation likely won't be resolved until April at the earlier, and will potentially linger until the draft, that discussion is becoming exhausting.

 

[TLEH]

This is the frustrating thing about having this conversation though, is because media (THAT LITERALLY PLAYED IN THE NFL) will just say whatever they want.

rbsdm.com/stats

Here is the site that you can use to view some of this data. EPA per play.. it correlates.

Here is the top 10 in Offense EPA/Play.. see any bad offenses there??

 

[Romang67]

The eyes and statistics tell me why they run so many screens and that is because it forces you to get the ball out against the blitz. You can definitely say Getsy and Fields don't work well together while also acknowledging that aspects of his play aren't conducive to modern NFL football (quick game).

But then how do you have Fields learn a completely new offense in year 4 and get a genuine evaluation? Even really good QBs in the NFL struggle year 1 in a new offense. Which is why him struggling so bad this year in Year 2 of the offense was disappointing.

Yep. It's screens or plays to where the field opened up because of the blitzer, and Fields doesn't really do slants. At all. Which is probably why Mooney is about to finish with a second straight <500 yard season.

 

[bwanajamba]

The best you can say for both Fields and Eberflus is that the guys on the team seem to really like them. It isn't nothing.

But yeah, it is going to be tough to endure a full offseason of this debate. The intrigue is reasonable but I worry that it's going to make people simply dig their heels in when there is a lot of information still to come.