Backyard Hockey
Dealing With It
- Feb 13, 2015
- 15,684
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I guess it all worked out in the end. The two u defeateds will play (sorry fsu doesn’t count with Travis out) and top offense ba top defense. Should be a fun game
OT: Bears & NFL Talk 97
- Thread starter No Fun Shogun
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TLEH
Pronounced T-Lay
Penix is certainly setting up to be the one that we all miss on. Washington has 3 NFL WRs and a great OL. He's in the perfect situation. But man he throws a beautiful ball.
Panzerspitze
Registered User
- Mar 4, 2010
- 5,100
- 1,075
They are not paying Nate Davis 11mil/yr to be a backup for the next two years.
Backyard Hockey
Dealing With It
- Feb 13, 2015
- 15,684
- 6,094
TLEH
Pronounced T-Lay
Yeah 100%. Said as much. Two torn ACLs on the same knee. But at the same time, his production is hard to ignore. He throws a beautiful ball. He just can't create off schedule.
If Eberflus is truly back in 2024, I doubt the Bears will draft a QB. Flus is NOT going to put his fate in Chicago in the hands of a rookie QB. Flus and Fields back in 2024 (much to the dismay of this board) but makes it easier to clean house after 2024, if Fields/Flus fails.
But if they do draft a QB, I rather have Penix and the extra picks over Caleb Williams.
But if they do draft a QB, I rather have Penix and the extra picks over Caleb Williams.
Romang67
BitterSwede
Romang67
BitterSwede
I really feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I hear people talk about Fields' being a top 10-15 QB in the league and trying to upgrade on that is risky. Which of these QBs has he actually shown that he's better than?
NFCN:
Cousins
Goff
Love
NFCS:
Mayfield
Carr
NFCE:
Hurts
Prescott
Jones
NFCW:
Purdy
Stafford
Smith
Murray
AFCS:
Lawrence
Stroud
AFCE:
Tua
Allen
AFCW:
Mahomes
Herbert
Wilson
AFCN:
Jackson
Burrows
Flacco
Pickett
That's 23 QBs. I'd say you can argue his case over Smith, Pickett, Flacco, Jones, and Carr, though I don't think it's a very strong case. That's also not including rookies like Young, Levis and Richardson.
If we're being completely honest, is he actually better than he was last year? Or did the team just add a top 10 WR which bumped Fields's passer rating by less than a point?
NFCN:
Cousins
Goff
Love
NFCS:
Mayfield
Carr
NFCE:
Hurts
Prescott
Jones
NFCW:
Purdy
Stafford
Smith
Murray
AFCS:
Lawrence
Stroud
AFCE:
Tua
Allen
AFCW:
Mahomes
Herbert
Wilson
AFCN:
Jackson
Burrows
Flacco
Pickett
That's 23 QBs. I'd say you can argue his case over Smith, Pickett, Flacco, Jones, and Carr, though I don't think it's a very strong case. That's also not including rookies like Young, Levis and Richardson.
If we're being completely honest, is he actually better than he was last year? Or did the team just add a top 10 WR which bumped Fields's passer rating by less than a point?
TLEH
Pronounced T-Lay
Can't even have this discussion anymore and the season isn't even over yet. Makes my head hurt what I read.
At this point, I think the decision should come down to two factors: how much do you believe Williams or Maye can become franchise QBs, and how much can you get the 1st overall pick?
If you are medium-to-high on Caleb or Maye, I think you just take them. The chance of having a franchise QB is worth the price of potentially missing if you feel good about them.
If you are low-to-medium on Caleb or Maye, then you trade the 1st for a deal similar to last year (but it should be better given Caleb/Maye>>Young/Stroud). I would say the ask starts at 4 1st rounders or 1st rounder equivalents (ala DJ Moore in the Panthers trade).
Everything else I think is moot. Fields' play is moot (unless you truly believe he can be a franchise QB, which is just blind faith at this point), the opportunity to get another top player is moot(given everyone wants MHJ, trading back to #3 or #4 and sacrificing our ability to get multiple future 1st rounders is just not smart value management given that MHJ is a WR, which is not a position you should be spending QB-like draft capital on if you don't have your QB already), and the idea that we can trade back and select a 2nd/3rd tier QB (I'm sorry, but if you don't like the chances of Williams/Maye becoming franchise QBs, thinking that QB prospects with significantly more flaws can become quality starters and not just burn draft capital is silly).
Anything besides taking a swing at a top QB prospect or trading down for a massive haul that sets us up to have the draft capital needed to have subsequent shots at top QB prospects is just a failure in team building. We need to find a franchise QB, and this decision needs to further that goal in one way or another.
We're very lucky that we have this opportunity and we're in an incredibly unique position of having a borderline playoff-caliber team (that is on the upswing outside of draft capital due to cap space, ascending young players) that also has the chance to draft a franchise QB or acquire an insane amount of draft capital to continue to be major players in the draft moving forward regardless of our play on the field. Any decision that removes us from being in that position (like drafting MHJ) is, in my opinion, the only wrong decision that can be made.
If you are medium-to-high on Caleb or Maye, I think you just take them. The chance of having a franchise QB is worth the price of potentially missing if you feel good about them.
If you are low-to-medium on Caleb or Maye, then you trade the 1st for a deal similar to last year (but it should be better given Caleb/Maye>>Young/Stroud). I would say the ask starts at 4 1st rounders or 1st rounder equivalents (ala DJ Moore in the Panthers trade).
Everything else I think is moot. Fields' play is moot (unless you truly believe he can be a franchise QB, which is just blind faith at this point), the opportunity to get another top player is moot(given everyone wants MHJ, trading back to #3 or #4 and sacrificing our ability to get multiple future 1st rounders is just not smart value management given that MHJ is a WR, which is not a position you should be spending QB-like draft capital on if you don't have your QB already), and the idea that we can trade back and select a 2nd/3rd tier QB (I'm sorry, but if you don't like the chances of Williams/Maye becoming franchise QBs, thinking that QB prospects with significantly more flaws can become quality starters and not just burn draft capital is silly).
Anything besides taking a swing at a top QB prospect or trading down for a massive haul that sets us up to have the draft capital needed to have subsequent shots at top QB prospects is just a failure in team building. We need to find a franchise QB, and this decision needs to further that goal in one way or another.
We're very lucky that we have this opportunity and we're in an incredibly unique position of having a borderline playoff-caliber team (that is on the upswing outside of draft capital due to cap space, ascending young players) that also has the chance to draft a franchise QB or acquire an insane amount of draft capital to continue to be major players in the draft moving forward regardless of our play on the field. Any decision that removes us from being in that position (like drafting MHJ) is, in my opinion, the only wrong decision that can be made.
Sarava
Registered User
I'm not talking about Fields being top 10 or 15 - because I didn't say that, and I don't know of anyone here that said that. But this post is some general thoughts on this discussion.
I think some fans just aren't sold on any of the QB's enough where the risk seems worth it. I'm not even sure it's about Justin Fields as much as not wanting to blow the golden ticket.
That said, most of us aren't watching all these college games with all these QB prospects. We'll all learn more in the coming months as the draft approaches.
IMO - the worst thing that can happen here is the Bears select a QB at #1 that busts out. They better be damn sure a QB will be a big star if they want to use the #1 pick on someone.
I think some fans just aren't sold on any of the QB's enough where the risk seems worth it. I'm not even sure it's about Justin Fields as much as not wanting to blow the golden ticket.
That said, most of us aren't watching all these college games with all these QB prospects. We'll all learn more in the coming months as the draft approaches.
IMO - the worst thing that can happen here is the Bears select a QB at #1 that busts out. They better be damn sure a QB will be a big star if they want to use the #1 pick on someone.
Hard disagree. You will never be "damn sure" a QB will be a big start barring a Luck or Lawrence-type QB prospect (which, obviously, is very rare). When it comes to drafting QBs, it's just maximizing odds rather than guarantees.
The truly worst thing that can happen is that the Bears place building a winning roster ahead of finding a franchise QB and continue to on the path of nearly every single Bears team before them: good to great rosters that were let down by a QB that couldn't keep up. We'll be winning 7 to 12 games every year, maybe get a couple playoffs wins, and then have to blow it up and rebuild because having enough elite players to prop up a meh QB is too expensive to be sustainable.
I'd rather us stay on the rookie QB carousel until we find the one, rather than get off prematurely. It's the only way to build a sustainably competitive roster.
I would be equally worried about signing Fields to the kind of money it's going to require to keep him only for him to not take the next step that some are convinced he's going to take. A QB that busts would be a disaster in its own right but is also a disaster that is very easy to get rid of.. go back a few pages to where someone mentioned what the Giants would need to do to get rid of Daniel Jones, it isn't pretty
No Fun Shogun
34-38-61-10-13-15
I will say that the past month+ has made me walk from the edge on Fields, as I was previously thinking he was easily a bottom quarter starting QB in the league (being generous) that admittedly made a damn pretty highlight reel play or two a game.
But yeah, I'm not anointing him as remotely close to great yet.
But yeah, I'm not anointing him as remotely close to great yet.
TLEH
Pronounced T-Lay
I mean a lot of people saw Penix for the first time in a couple years last night lol. I question the amount of CFB being watched by some of the things I read.
Not even remotely close to this year. None of them get me excited. Enough that I think JJ McCarthy should go back to school.
Romang67
BitterSwede
The Top 10-15 QB comment was not directed to anyone here, to be clear.
Define exciting. Since 2020, only 2022 seems like a clearly weaker QB class. And I don't think that will change unless at least 3 QBs take massive leaps forward next year. QB1 would probably have been QB3 last year and QB4 next year, down to QB4 and QB6 respectively.
TLEH
Pronounced T-Lay
Romang67
BitterSwede
Yeah, he's probably QB1 next year if he goes back. Either him or Sanders at this point.
This is the best qb draft in twenty years. If you aren’t sold on any qbs in this draft you never will be
TLEH
Pronounced T-Lay
Watching this all play out truly shows you how little effort media people put into their opinions. The Bears twitter and media has been shelling out whatever take the masses are saying for the day.
Castle8130
Registered User
- May 9, 2017
- 3,174
- 2,757
To be honest, our offensive line was solid this year. We have put together an offense that can support a QB overall. Adding another WR or extra OL is the last step. Drafting Penix or Williams in the top 10 might not utilize our draft capital enough. Would you guys rather have us pick WIlliams? What if we could get 4th oa + 17th oa + 35th oa + 2025 2nd from the Cardinals? Grab an elite OL or WR with the 4th oa, then possibly an edge rusher at 10th oa. We should be a competitor in 2024 with the team and draft capital we have
Blackhawkswincup
RIP Fugu
Putting one's fate in Fields hands after what he has shown at this point is far more risky
Rookie QB struggle as they learn. A guy struggling in 4th year has no excuse built in for coach potentially
Blackhawkswincup
RIP Fugu
To me if Fields is QB next year the Bears better have acquired a 2025 1st rounder in whatever trade down they do because if Fields falters again and Bears need to go QB in 2025 having an additional 1st in draft would be at least a positive
The idea people should be afraid to draft another QB because of previous failures is nonsensical and if you truly feel that way then every pick/important signing all the time must be D and Bears have task ahead of building a D on par with 85 Bears or 00 Ravens to even have hope of winning a SB again.
And to me an 85 Bears D or 00 Ravens D is even rarer and longer shot to build for Bears then finally having a QB work out
The idea people should be afraid to draft another QB because of previous failures is nonsensical and if you truly feel that way then every pick/important signing all the time must be D and Bears have task ahead of building a D on par with 85 Bears or 00 Ravens to even have hope of winning a SB again.
And to me an 85 Bears D or 00 Ravens D is even rarer and longer shot to build for Bears then finally having a QB work out
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