OT: Bears & NFL Talk 102

[TLEH]

Jayden Daniels in 2022 was pretty average. He had a great senior year but prior to that? Not great at all.

Every single organization was taking Caleb at 1. It wasn’t the wrong pick.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Jayden Daniels in 2022 was pretty average. He had a great senior year but prior to that? Not great at all.

Every single organization was taking Caleb at 1. It wasn’t the wrong pick.

Stroud put up almost 90/10 at OSU in two years as starter, did it against premier blue chip programs, in big games, Bears/Poles said nah.....and what was Burrow like before his senior year at LSU? Caleb feasted on dogshit pac 12 programs and was mediocre against good teams...lazy group think to make decisions like well everybody else would've done the same so how can we blame them...their job is to make the right decisions and they haven't at the position for years

 

[TLEH]

Stroud put up almost 90/10 at OSU in two years as starter, did it against premier blue chip programs, in big games, Bears/Poles said nah.....and what was Burrow like before his senior year at LSU? Caleb feasted on dogshit pac 12 programs and was mediocre against good teams...lazy group think to make decisions like well everybody else would've done the same so how can we blame them...their job is to make the right decisions and they haven't at the position for years

32/32 teams were taking Caleb Williams.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

32/32 teams were taking Caleb Williams.

and they would've been wrong, this is the same league that does shit like take Anthony Richardson at 4, why should Poles be evaluated based on what every other team would've done, he had multiple QBs to pick from in two draft classes and he got the wrong one...if you rank all the QBs he had a chance to hand pick and evaluate he got the one that might end up outside the top 3, Stroud, JD and Maye might all end up better, then you still have Penix and McCarthy who have yet to play...might as well have a fan run the team if your analysis is just well consensus says pick XYZ player

 

[Pez68]

Oh, we're at "the Bears drafted the wrong QB" portion of meatheadedness already? For f***'s sake.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853498759524557013

Oh, we're at "the Bears drafted the wrong QB" portion of meatheadedness already? For f***'s sake.

do we need 3 years like Fields and more silver linings and scapegoats? what happened to greatest rookie situation ever and generational talent

 

[Romang67]

Oh, we're at "the Bears drafted the wrong QB" portion of meatheadedness already? For f***'s sake.

It's silly, but hardly unexpected.

 

[TLEH]

and they would've been wrong, this is the same league that does shit like take Anthony Richardson at 4, why should Poles be evaluated based on what every other team would've done, he had multiple QBs to pick from in two draft classes and he got the wrong one...if you rank all the QBs he had a chance to hand pick and evaluate he got the one that might end up outside the top 3, Stroud, JD and Maye might all end up better, then you still have Penix and McCarthy who have yet to play...might as well have a fan run the team if your analysis is just well consensus says pick XYZ player

It’s been 8 games.

 

[Pez68]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853498759524557013

do we need 3 years like Fields and more silver linings and scapegoats? what happened to greatest rookie situation ever and generational talent

I mean, you typically need at least a season or two...

Who was buying into that bullshit about "greatest rookie situation ever"? The offensive line was clearly trash tier, and the coaching staff was still full of morons. Firing Getsy wasn't enough for most of us. They aren't even USING their talent, because their offensive coordinator is a f***ing imbecile who doesn't like to target tight ends, and their offensive line couldn't stop a college pass rush.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I mean, you typically need at least a season or two...

Who was buying into that bullshit about "greatest rookie situation ever"? The offensive line was clearly trash tier, and the coaching staff was still full of morons. Firing Getsy wasn't enough for most of us. They aren't even USING their talent, because their offensive coordinator is a f***ing imbecile who doesn't like to target tight ends, and their offensive line couldn't stop a college pass rush.

A lot of people were buying into the idea the bears had the greatest situation ever for a #1 pick to come into given all the weapons he has

It’s been 8 games.

And hes been ass cheeks for a lot of them

 

[Romang67]

I mean, you typically need at least a season or two...

Who was buying into that bullshit about "greatest rookie situation ever"? The offensive line was clearly trash tier, and the coaching staff was still full of morons. Firing Getsy wasn't enough for most of us. They aren't even USING their talent, because their offensive coordinator is a f***ing imbecile who doesn't like to target tight ends, and their offensive line couldn't stop a college pass rush.

It amazes me that people don't realize the importance of an offensive line. A good offensive line allows for two things: pass protection so the QB has CONSISTENT time to pass, and run blocking so the run game can take pressure off the QB.

The O-line was supposed to be average this season, with Davis returning to form, Bates playing C, Wright and B Jones taking steps forward, and Jenkins staying healthy. It has been anything but.

So the Bears doesn't give him consistent time to pass the ball, and the run game has been incredibly inconsistent.

It Williams stepping up and performing despite a bad O-line? No. Do I wish he were? Sure. Am I surprised he isn't? Of course not.

At this point, the rest of the season is, unfortunately, likely more about stopping him from developing bad habits than it is about developing good habits.

 

[Crow]

Oh, we're at "the Bears drafted the wrong QB" portion of meatheadedness already? For f***'s sake.

Some of these people are going to have to apologize to musto.

 

[belfour30]

It amazes me that people don't realize the importance of an offensive line. A good offensive line allows for two things: pass protection so the QB has CONSISTENT time to pass, and run blocking so the run game can take pressure off the QB.

The O-line was supposed to be average this season, with Davis returning to form, Bates playing C, Wright and B Jones taking steps forward, and Jenkins staying healthy. It has been anything but.

So the Bears doesn't give him consistent time to pass the ball, and the run game has been incredibly inconsistent.

It Williams stepping up and performing despite a bad O-line? No. Do I wish he were? Sure. Am I surprised he isn't? Of course not.

At this point, the rest of the season is, unfortunately, likely more about stopping him from developing bad habits than it is about developing good habits.

The OL was not that bad last year. Waldron's scheme has turned them from average to complete crap.

 

[Romang67]

The OL was not that bad last year. Waldron's scheme has turned them from average to complete crap.

Which is really weird. They're tripping over themselves when a below average D-line throws a simple stunt on them. Except for against Carolina, which barely has an existing D-line, and Jaguars, which is starting to feel like more of a jet-lag game on their end than anything special from the Bears, the O-line has been a complete and utter catastrophe no matter how bad the opposition has been.

Promoting the O-line coach to also being in charge of run game coordination was certainly a choice as well. That feels like something that deserves more criticism than it's getting. Though I'm admittedly not sure how much of the failure of the O-line falls on OC Scheme vs O-line coach and run coordinator input.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

The Caleb vs Jayden debate doesn't just start with week 1-9, Jayden won the Heisman last year, Caleb wasn't even invited, he's been outperforming Caleb for nearly 1.5 seasons now, so to say its a meatball thing to suggest Poles got it wrong is simply ignoring data and not updating your priors because Caleb is your favorite team's QB

Some of these people are going to have to apologize to musto.

Bears fans owe themselves an apology for telling themselves he had the best rookie situation ever only to see him produce like Danny Dimes

 

[belfour30]

Which is really weird. They're tripping over themselves when a below average D-line throws a simple stunt on them. Except for against Carolina, which barely has an existing D-line, and Jaguars, which is starting to feel like more of a jet-lag game on their end than anything special from the Bears, the O-line has been a complete and utter catastrophe no matter how bad the opposition has been.

Promoting the O-line coach to also being in charge of run game coordination was certainly a choice as well. That feels like something that deserves more criticism than it's getting. Though I'm admittedly not sure how much of the failure of the O-line falls on OC Scheme vs O-line coach and run coordinator input.

What's also annoying is that Swift is really explosive but they cannot block for him.

 

[TLEH]

No one has to lie to themselves either. It hasn’t been as good as I thought it would be at this point. The OL has been worse than I thought it was (already bad) and then the situation around the team also not good.

His accuracy has been a problem. I’m surprised by that. But it isn’t making me question who they selected.

It would be like if Fantilli was better than Bedard. Like okay? Not like there was a choice to make.

 

[belfour30]

It would be like if Fantilli was better than Bedard. Like okay? Not like there was a choice to make.

Isn't that what you pay scouts for?

 

[Toews2Bickell]

No one has to lie to themselves either. It hasn’t been as good as I thought it would be at this point. The OL has been worse than I thought it was (already bad) and then the situation around the team also not good.

His accuracy has been a problem. I’m surprised by that. But it isn’t making me question who they selected.

It would be like if Fantilli was better than Bedard. Like okay? Not like there was a choice to make.

Apples to oranges, Caleb regressed his last year of college, Bedard continued to ascend and put up video game numbers, Caleb wasn't even a top 2 QB in his own conference let alone his entire draft class, Bedard cleared everybody by a mile, thats the difference

 

[ChiHawks10]

Apples to oranges, Caleb regressed his last year of college, Bedard continued to ascend and put up video game numbers, Caleb wasn't even a top 2 QB in his own conference let alone his entire draft class, Bedard cleared everybody by a mile, thats the difference

Do you really not comprehend the importance of an offensive line for a rookie QB? There are a bunch of young QBs struggling in the NFL right now behind piss-poor offensive line play. It's not like this is a new concept in football. QB has time to throw, QB can be good. QB is running for his life the second the ball is snapped on every play, QB will be bad. There were no less than 10 times yesterday where I saw a guy come in completely unmolested by anyone near our offensive line the second the ball was snapped. I mean... literally the guy was across the line of scrimmage as soon as the ball was snapped, and no one even got a hand on him. Like... this isn't rocket science. The line play(and scheming to have TEs or RBs block/chip) has been abysmal, on top of the OL play being below replacement player level. I don't care what QB you have back there. You could have Tom f***ing Brady behind this OL, and he would be on his ass the whole game too, and failing miserably.

 

[clydesdale line]

32/32 teams were taking Caleb Williams.

Eh... I don't know about that. There were some anonymous scouts and even media guys like Louis Riddick (who is highly respected in NFL circles) who stuck their neck out for Daniels for weeks leading up to the draft. I won't count Dan Orlovsky in the "respected" category but he was another one.

And I have no dog in this "they chose the wrong QB" fight cuz it's b.s. What I've seen out of Caleb I've never seen any rookie QB who has had a Bears uniform do in this city. Bears are going to Bears him though despite his tremendous talent. They've already started keeping Eberflus.

 

[Romang67]

No one has to lie to themselves either. It hasn’t been as good as I thought it would be at this point. The OL has been worse than I thought it was (already bad) and then the situation around the team also not good.

His accuracy has been a problem. I’m surprised by that. But it isn’t making me question who they selected.

It would be like if Fantilli was better than Bedard. Like okay? Not like there was a choice to make.

Yep.

Williams hasn't been as good as I hoped, primarily on the deep ball. He has worked the middle of the field better than I thought he would this early in his career, but that only does so much. But that pales in comparison to my expectations vs the reality for:

1. The scheming and playcalling.

2. The O-line

3. The play of the receivers.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

How much shit did Bears fans talk about Carolina and Bryce Young debacle, that trade etc, to turn around and say no no our QB needs more time, he needs more around him and a better staff, its too small of a sample, and Bryce had way way less to work with and a more dysfunctional franchise, truly comical development but on par for this fanbase

Do you really not comprehend the importance of an offensive line for a rookie QB? There are a bunch of young QBs struggling in the NFL right now behind piss-poor offensive line play. It's not like this is a new concept in football. QB has time to throw, QB can be good. QB is running for his life the second the ball is snapped on every play, QB will be bad. There were no less than 10 times yesterday where I saw a guy come in completely unmolested by anyone near our offensive line the second the ball was snapped. I mean... literally the guy was across the line of scrimmage as soon as the ball was snapped, and no one even got a hand on him. Like... this isn't rocket science. The line play(and scheming to have TEs or RBs block/chip) has been abysmal, on top of the OL play being below replacement player level. I don't care what QB you have back there. You could have Tom f***ing Brady behind this OL, and he would be on his ass the whole game too.

Do you not comprehend that he's been terribly inaccurate and held onto the ball too long even going back to USC, he tries to play hero ball and he has struggled in structure for awhile now, god forbit you take a 1.5 year sample and use it to evaluate Caleb vs Jayden...comparing this guy to Bedard now like he didn't just put up Baker Mayfield type production in college...its a joke tbh

 

[Romang67]

How much shit did Bears fans talk about Carolina and Bryce Young debacle, that trade etc, to turn around and say no no our QB needs more time, he needs more around him and a better staff, its too small of a sample, and Bryce had way way less to work with and a more dysfunctional franchise, truly comical development but on par for this fanbase


Do you not comprehend that he's been terribly inaccurate and held onto the ball too long even going back to USC, he tries to play hero ball and he has struggled in structure for awhile now, god forbit you take a 1.5 year sample and use it to evaluate Caleb vs Jayden...comparing this guy to Bedard now like he didn't just put up Baker Mayfield type production in college...its a joke tbh

Where did you get the idea that Caleb was terribly inaccurate in college?

 

[ChiHawks10]

How much shit did Bears fans talk about Carolina and Bryce Young debacle, that trade etc, to turn around and say no no our QB needs more time, he needs more around him and a better staff, its too small of a sample, and Bryce had way way less to work with and a more dysfunctional franchise, truly comical development but on par for this fanbase


Do you not comprehend that he's been terribly inaccurate and held onto the ball too long even going back to USC, he tries to play hero ball and he has struggled in structure for awhile now, god forbit you take a 1.5 year sample and use it to evaluate Caleb vs Jayden...comparing this guy to Bedard now like he didn't just put up Baker Mayfield type production in college...its a joke tbh

His accuracy has been bad at times, and good at times. It's much better when he has TIME.

A QB that is rushed, that is on the run, that has no time to set his feet, or step up into the pocket, is going to be far more inaccurate than one who does. He's always throwing off balance, off one foot, or on the run for his f***ing life.

You're passing judgement on a rookie 8 games into his career, playing behind the worst offensive line in football, with some of the worst play calling and scheming in football(if not the worst). It's f***ing nonsensical. It's f***ing meathead shit, if I'm being honest.

And all that is completely ignoring that he has f***ing receivers just giving up on their routes and walking off the field mid-play.

BTW, he had a 67% completion percentage his three years in college. How is that inaccurate?