Blue Jays Discussion: Back in Toronto AND things are happening (trade deadline @ 4pm ET/1pm PT today)

[Cor]

Ray - 3.04 era
Ryu - 3.26 era
Berrios - 3.48 era
Manoah - 2.90 era

Yeah that's a legit top 4.

I hope we bring back Ray.

Add in Nate Pearson (hopefully) and that’s a solid starting 5

 

[TSA0402]

Your 4th best ERA in the starting rotation has a WHIP of 1.04. That's pretty encouraging.

 

[ryno23]

He’s got a high floor. He’s pretty much a sure bet to be a major leaguer but his potential is limited by his ability to:

1. Hit for power
2. Play defence

And even his speed isn’t great. To compare him to Madrigal, there isn’t a tool that Martin has that is a clear cut grade above him. The power should be a bit better than Madrigal’s but he’s also not touted as a generational hit for average type of guy and there’s no position that he’s plus at defensively.

I do like Madrigal pick up by my cubs but would have been more ecstatic for the Jays package for Kimbrel. Kimbrel at least would have at least impacted way more games than Berrios.

You might get 8 starts out of Berrios this year and at best 30 next year. So only 38 times Berrios will impact a game. Kimbrel would have more saves than 38 by the middle of May next year lol.

 

[Woodman19]

I do like Madrigal pick up by my cubs but would have been more ecstatic for the Jays package for Kimbrel. Kimbrel at least would have at least impacted way more games than Berrios.

You might get 8 starts out of Berrios this year and at best 30 next year. So only 38 times Berrios will impact a game. Kimbrel would have more saves than 38 by the middle of May next year lol.

We will get way more value out of Berrios and at worst fetch a comp pick afterwards. Kimbrel not so much.

 

[ryno23]

We will get way more value out of Berrios and at worst fetch a comp pick afterwards. Kimbrel not so much.

how would you get more value out of Berrios? He only pitches every 5th day? Kimbrel will pitch 4 times a week if the team is good. Why wouldn't Kimbrel fetch a comp pick as well? I would assume he would be in the top 30% of his positional group?

Kimbrel will impact more games vs Berrios who will only see the mound at best 30 times a year?

 

[Woodman19]

how would you get more value out of Berrios? He only pitches every 5th day? Kimbrel will pitch 4 times a week if the team is good. Why wouldn't Kimbrel fetch a comp pick as well? I would assume he would be in the top 30% of his positional group?

Kimbrel will impact more games vs Berrios who will only see the mound at best 30 times a year?

Well, the 200+ innings > 50 innings. 200 is bigger than 50

 

[aingefan]

Do we know what Axford has been hitting on the radar gun in Buffalo? He’s been lights out there so far and might be a bp option.

Interesting question. There are a number of guys in Buffalo having nice years.
Also, how did last years version of Jacob Waguespeck turn into this years?

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Didnt realize Mayza had been that good the last few months tbh. Maybe it's because it's easier to assume everyone in the pen is trash.

 

[saska sault]

how would you get more value out of Berrios? He only pitches every 5th day? Kimbrel will pitch 4 times a week if the team is good. Why wouldn't Kimbrel fetch a comp pick as well? I would assume he would be in the top 30% of his positional group?

Kimbrel will impact more games vs Berrios who will only see the mound at best 30 times a year?

Doesn't Kimbrel need to get a qualifying offer which is usually in the 17-20 mil range?

 

[TF97]

how would you get more value out of Berrios? He only pitches every 5th day? Kimbrel will pitch 4 times a week if the team is good. Why wouldn't Kimbrel fetch a comp pick as well? I would assume he would be in the top 30% of his positional group?

Kimbrel will impact more games vs Berrios who will only see the mound at best 30 times a year?

Just want to add that Kimbrel is ineligible for a qualifying offer as he has already received one in the past. It’s the reason why he signed so late with the Cubs in 2019 as he waited until after the draft so the loss of a draft pick was no longer attached to him.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Well, the 200+ innings > 50 innings. 200 is bigger than 50

Lol can't believe this had to be explained.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Welcome home boys. Thanks for the W.

 

[canucksfan]

Espinal has a WAR of 1.2 and Biggio is at 0.0

 

[Woodman19]

Lol can't believe this had to be explained.

Nothing surprises me anymore.

 

[barilko05]

Sounds like SD was also after Berrios. I assume that's why it cost us what it did to get him. We had to raise the stakes to make the deal. I think it'll be worth it.

 

[TMLeafer]

What a sight to see them back home.

 

[dredeye]

Espinal has a WAR of 1.2 and Biggio is at 0.0

I actually wonder if Biggio stock has taken a big hit. They wanted him as a super utility but he’s clearly not that guy. It’s 2b or bust for him

 

[Kurtz]

Nothing surprises me anymore.

Well in fairness all of Kimbrel's innings would be high leverage, unlike Barrios'. I wonder if there's a formula out there that compares the value of high leverage vs normal innings.

 

[Eyedea]

Well in fairness all of Kimbrel's innings would be high leverage, unlike Barrios'. I wonder if there's a formula out there that compares the value of high leverage vs normal innings.

Let's also compare them by their replacements. The bullpen is next man up, so the setup guy would become the closer if the closer went down. When it comes to a starting pitcher, you'll likely have to dip into the minors to get your replacement. The value of an elite closer is still not at the same level as a top of the rotation starter.

 

[Cloned]

Let's also compare them by their replacements. The bullpen is next man up, so the setup guy would become the closer if the closer went down. When it comes to a starting pitcher, you'll likely have to dip into the minors to get your replacement. The value of an elite closer is still not at the same level as a top of the rotation starter.

I would also add that most of the games where we've had the lead to start and lost have NOT been lost in the 8th or 9th innings. Usually it's been in the 5th/6th/7th innings, where Montoyo would very likely NOT be using Kimbrel anyways.

 

[phillipmike]

Was thinking about this and part of me thinks ownership gave the FO direction of what to do at the deadline: Buy!

Ownership has lost hundreds of millions of dollars over the last year and a half in sales plus add in the cost of housing players, paying salaries, minor league wages, travel, scouting, development, staffing, COVID and health costs and even draft and IFA money. They also had to retro fit a minor league stadium last year to major league standards. Then upgrade the same field in Buffalo again after spending money on Dunedin and more money on that field to get it up to MLB standards.

They did all this and so far the only revenue they got back was 40 something games in ticket sales from on average 2000 fans from Florida and 8000 from Buffalo.

So ownership told the FO to go big game hunting and get a big name to get fans pumped and get the team back into the playoffs.

The Leafs came off a disappointing year and the Raps are retooling. Now is the time to capitalize on being the best team in Toronto to make money back.

Also isn’t a mistake the had the new uniforms created in 2019 out for the first game. I bet you see these uniforms a lot so they can make a lot of money back in sales.

 

[saska sault]

Now that was a fun game. Even watching on my couch watching the game, you can sense the players and hear the crowd... Its finally a home field advantage. Renewed excitement, lets hope for some exciting baseball down the stretch like tonight!

 

[The Nemesis]

If we've calmed down now who do we think is coming out of the rotation?

Matz or Stripling?

I keep Stripling in the rotation. He's had a bit of a hiccup lately, but has still been very good for most of the last couple months. Matz came out of the gate on fire, but has been kinda meh since then.

Neither goes super deep into games, but for your presumptive #5 in the rotation that's fine. If you can get 5 and a bit innings of not shit baseball out of them every 5 days, that's all you can ask for.

 

[Puckstuff]

 

[SDig14]

Despite thinking the cost was too high, I'm feeling better about it now and hoping this means ownership has given them the green light to spend this offseason as well and continue to build the pen, fill any holes and try to keep Ray and/or Semien. If they walk despite wanting to stay over a bit of cash I will be very mad.

I'm also not a believer in this Red Sox team. So, I'm comforting myself knowing that we still have a prospect pool better than the Red Sox and Yankees and that's after adding Berrios to the roster.