Babcock resigning as CBJ Head Coach *Mod note, post #687*

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So how is it an overreaction, then?

I don’t think it’s worth terminating his contract over. That’s serious. That’s not something that happens everyday. This wasn’t a normal firing for bad performance.

Has he probably not learned his lessons? Yes, but what are you expecting with Babcock? He’s not there for player relations. This isn’t a big enough deal that his contract deserves to be terminated.

 

[Baby Punisher]

Unfortunately, once people make up their minds about a person there is little that person can do to change their opinion. A few soundbytes don't define a person, but I guess it's unrealistic to expect people to look at the whole picture before passing judgment about a person. To some people Biz will never be more than the frat boy they imagine him to be no matter what he does or says in the future.

If people don't like Biz's style or his humor that is totally fine, but he's clearly a decent person who's busted his butt to make a career in media for himself. The reason he gets so much inside information is that he has earned the respect of his peers more than most hockey journalists out there. I just listened to the podcast from last week where the allegations were made and it's clear that the Chiclets guys didn't even consider the fact that Babs might get fired for this. They were just reporting a juicy story that they had confirmed through people who would know. We live in a shoot-the-messenger society where people base their judgments more on who said it rather than what the message actually is.

Biz is a talented guy. He is entertaining and can riff off the cuff with ease. I think at times he tries too hard to be outrageous and it comes off as fake. He just needs to be himself and tone it down a bit. You don't have to always be the clown to be entertaining.

 

[BelovedIsles]

The hilarity of looking back at his Saskatchewan resignation and finding:

“To be honest the guys were absolutely spectacular,” said Babcock. “I enjoyed interacting with them so much. The part I didn’t realize is we were going to get to know their families, the Moms and Dads were going to be around so much. So that was good for my heart and brought me pure joy.”

Well, I mean, he did a thorough investigation of their phones, so yeah, he got to know their families ...and a lot of other things...

 

[Chips]

I don’t think it’s worth terminating his contract over. That’s serious. That’s not something that happens everyday. This wasn’t a normal firing for bad performance.

Has he probably not learned his lessons? Yes, but what are you expecting with Babcock? He’s not there for player relations. This isn’t a big enough deal that his contract deserves to be terminated.

Player relations is one of the biggest parts of the job. He’s dealing with human beings. The uniting, motivating etc are parts of the job and how you approach people the right or wrong way affects if.. and also just human beings deserve respect. It’s pretty much been well shown by now in any industry that workers are more motivated, energized etc when they’re not working in a dictatorship


Not necessarily being liked, but being respected. Players young and old are shitting on him with no respect or admiration despite his accolades… you don’t really see that often.


Reading more and more, it honestly makes me wonder if that run or “poor drafting” Detroit had in the 2000s-2010s to some extent was actually more about poor development. New generations, new communication is needed. Literal abuse and mind games are not remotely necessary.

Franzens issues w Babcock are well known

In the players tribune, Jakob Kindl (it was written in another language and as always the translation may not be exact.)

I wasn't his favorite player from the beginning, and even though Holland liked me, Babcock seemed to constantly test what I could handle and he let me know that he didn’t like me as a player. I couldn’t stand him as a person. I saw him making jokes with the others, but with me he barely exchanged a few words. If he did, it was to humiliate me.

For example, he once put me on the right side of the defense, and I was looking at the lineup in disbelief. He was just passing by and heard me, so he looked at the lineup and said, "Yeah, you're on the right side. You have trouble playing on the left, and I'm making it harder for you, right?" He erased it and put me back on the left.

He seldomly trusted me on the ice. My teammates also wondered what the issue was, because even when I didn't play for a long time, I immediately was among the best when he gave me a chance. Then he let me sit again. Sometimes, I didn’t play a single game for two months, then I jumped in, played well, scored a goal and an assist, for example, and then didn’t play the next game again.

^thats a tame example. Chelios on spitten chiclets painted an uglier picture

Invasion of privacy is a whole different still wildly inappropriate thing too, an Babs has lost any “second chance” trust at this point.

 

[Albatros]

I don't doubt anything else, but Kindl is out to lunch if he thinks he was one of the best in Detroit for any prolonged period of time.

 

[Bounces R Way]

How did he last so long in Detroit?

I get he had success but it's surprising the entire room didn't turn against him there

always the answer to this question

 

[Guttersniped]

Well, they didn't go to the management which meant that the management didn't know. Maybe they need to work on that, but either way in this particular instance one can't really expect them to throw the head coach under the bus only based on podcast rumors. First the leading players came out saying that they didn't have a problem with the coach, only after it emerged that some younger players apparently did have a problem. Once things became clear Babcock was out and Jarmo apologized to the players.

You’re sidestepping how management would have done jackshit if a player went to them because they already publicly committed to Babcock and said he was an amazing guy.

Players don’t go to GMs to complain about coaches because unless they’re superstars it will not work for them. There’s no HR here. Babcock had no internal checks. That’s how NHL coaching works.

Jarmo can publicly apologize all he wants but he backed Babcock over players until the NHLPA made that impossible to do.

 

[Guttersniped]

I think this is an overreaction, but I also think Babcock continuing to ask these players to share personal photos with him after they were allegedly uncomfortable doing so suggests he still can’t read the room and may not be the type of coach you want anyway.

He took some players phones and went through them and then lied about that afterwards. That’s what got him fired, not asking for pictures.

So did he actually cross the line or not? Been following this story from a distance, so not sure if I missed something, but sounded like it was a whole lot of nothing.

You missed something

 

[Albatros]

You’re sidestepping how management would have done jackshit if a player went to them because they already publicly committed to Babcock and said he was an amazing guy.

Players don’t go to GMs to complain about coaches because unless they’re superstars it will not work for them. There’s no HR here. Babcock had no internal checks. That’s how NHL coaching works.

Jarmo can publicly apologize all he wants but he backed Babcock over players until the NHLPA made that impossible to do.

I don't know how he could have "backed players" when no player had yet told that they had a problem.

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

How did he last so long in Detroit?

I get he had success but it's surprising the entire room didn't turn against him there

Time to 'investigate' Ken Holland. Dominos.

 

[BLONG7]

I don’t think it’s worth terminating his contract over. That’s serious. That’s not something that happens everyday. This wasn’t a normal firing for bad performance.

Has he probably not learned his lessons? Yes, but what are you expecting with Babcock? He’s not there for player relations. This isn’t a big enough deal that his contract deserves to be terminated.

Bullying people is just no longer tolerated, at any level it's just that simple...........he has a terrible reputation of doing some nasty things...................just because he can.

Those dinosaurs are no longer accepted any longer ( Therrien, Hitch, Babs etc )

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

Bullying people is just no longer tolerated, at any level it's just that simple...........he has a terrible reputation of doing some nasty things...................just because he can.

Those dinosaurs are no longer accepted any longer ( Therrien, Hitch, Babs etc )

Hate to be the one to tell you this my man, but 'bullying' is just as prevelent and excepted as ever. The pendulum swings side to side but it's always there. Quit following it left to right and learn to understand the point of 'balance' that sits atop it - guiding the string.

It's a human 'being' kind of problem

 

[BLONG7]

Hate to be the one to tell you this my man, but 'bullying' is just as prevelent and excepted as ever. The pendulum swings side to side but it's always there. Quit following it left to right and learn to understand the point of 'balance' that sits atop it - guiding the string.

It's a human 'being' kind of problem

True............but problem is the key word............ask Babs.

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

True............but problem is the key word............ask Babs.

Babs is an absolute donkey. Trouble is believing you're washing your hands of the 'old guard' and making change for the better when there's a long line of similar-minded folk looking to do the same shit in a 'newer' and more 'tolerant' and 'loving' way. Snakes shed their skin.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

I wonder the type of shit coaches like Milbury and Keenan used to do...
[/QU

What do you mean? I agree he's toxic.
I just think it's funny that Commodore was scratched a lot and waived out of Columbus, then goes to Detroit and blames Babcock for some sort of "personal vendetta" against him because he was scratched there too. Now he's been on a 10+ year personal vendetta himself.

Babcock is a piece of shit but I think it's hilarious that people are blowing Commodore and to a much lesser extent Biz (who got like 30% of the initial story correct, but since Babs looked at a phone it doesn't matter that his initial report was pretty inaccurate - but no one likes Babs so no one cares) Good on them for getting the NHLPA to go deeper, though

Zeke, Im going on my memory of the time, but I recall (or recall Commodore saying) that Babcock had urged Commodore to come to Detroit claiming he had use for him and offered ice time etc. I think Commodore is partly pissed because he took Cockles at his word, turning down other interested teams in the process. Even if that is true, I think Commodore needs to let it go already and get Mike freaking Babcock out of his mind, but thought I would add some perspective - if I'm remembering correctly. Maybe you, Lazlo or some of the Wings fans active here can remember more clearly.
I can't Stan Commodore, Biz or Babcock, so I'm not trying to say Commodore's nonsense is justified. He sounds like a petulant, whiny adolescent and really needs to grow up and move on. On the flip side, I like the spotlight being put on Babcock's horrendous treatment of players, mostly due to his treatment of Franzen.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

N

Is he elite?

Naw, but he's real gud.

 

[Beau Knows]

Misunderstood genius is still genius. Think they crucified a guy for that once...

"Hey let me see that phone, I need to look through it!".

Wow, what a genius.

 

[Guttersniped]

Misunderstood genius is still genius. Think they crucified a guy for that once...

Time to 'investigate' Ken Holland. Dominos.

 

[Guttersniped]

Hate to be the one to tell you this my man, but 'bullying' is just as prevelent and excepted as ever. The pendulum swings side to side but it's always there. Quit following it left to right and learn to understand the point of 'balance' that sits atop it - guiding the string.

It's a human 'being' kind of problem

You can’t lie to your bosses, and then have them put their reputation on the line defending your bullshit, but you’re ignoring that key part.

 

[Ezekial]

Zeke, Im going on my memory of the time, but I recall (or recall Commodore saying) that Babcock had urged Commodore to come to Detroit claiming he had use for him and offered ice time etc. I think Commodore is partly pissed because he took Cockles at his word, turning down other interested teams in the process. Even if that is true, I think Commodore needs to let it go already and get Mike freaking Babcock out of his mind, but thought I would add some perspective - if I'm remembering correctly. Maybe you, Lazlo or some of the Wings fans active here can remember more clearly.
I can't Stan Commodore, Biz or Babcock, so I'm not trying to say Commodore's nonsense is justified. He sounds like a petulant, whiny adolescent and really needs to grow up and move on. On the flip side, I like the spotlight being put on Babcock's horrendous treatment of players, mostly due to his treatment of Franzen.

Can't tag your post because of the quote formatting but I don't remember the exact Commodore situation I just know it wasn't much different than how the CBJ handled him. Babs could've told him anything I guess, but at the end of the day he signed a 1x1 and didn't play himself into a better situation. He simply fell off as a hockey player less than halfway into that CBJ 5 year deal. He was scratched to open the season in year 3 of 5.
I agree with everything else you said. The way he treated Franzen is imo the worst thing he's done that's public so it's crazy that phone thing is talked about the way it is. He's done actual sociopathic stuff before that affected people's mental state, much worse than making someone uncomfortable by using their phone.

 

[Barnum]

How did he last so long in Detroit?

I get he had success but it's surprising the entire room didn't turn against him there

10 years but it also doesn’t sound like the players wanted him there either. According to this, they tried every year to get him fired.

This article was printed before the recent nonsense with Babcock, it was after the Leafs situation.

Ex-Red Wings D Colaiacovo on Babcock: Guys hated him in Detroit, tried to get him fired every year

In an interview with TSN this week, Colaiacovo said when he was there he learned that Red Wings team leaders wanted Babcock fired, and they went to GM Ken Holland each year to try to get rid of the coach.

www.clickondetroit.com

Colaiacovo said when he was with Detroit he learned that Red Wings team leaders wanted Babcock fired, and they went to GM Ken Holland each year to try to get rid of the coach.

 

[Cup or Bust]

Mike Babcock sounds like a real low life scumbag of a person. It seems like he went out of his way to be an a-hole as well which makes him an even bigger loser.

 

[TooManyHumans]

This is like when ESPN hired Rush Limbaugh and then fired him for being Rush Limbaugh. Like, what did you expect from Babcock? If anything, this is way less bad than what I would have expected.

ETA: Just to be clear, I thought it was a bad hire and I am fine with him being fired. I just don't understand why the team thought it would turn out any different. Babcock is who he is and is not capable of changing that.

 

[JS19]

How did he last so long in Detroit?

I get he had success but it's surprising the entire room didn't turn against him there

It's funny. The word got out that some of the Red Wings players were not happy with what Babcock was doing, and Ken Holland got involved to basically say: "suck it up or get traded." In other words, players perceived what Holland did as protecting Babcock.

What's wilder is that in the time since parting ways in Detroit, you never really see Ken Holland rush to Babcock's defense in anything. Not the Marner situation, or this controversy. In fact, he's uncharacteristically candid about saying players hated the guy and that he was aware of it.
Which tells me that Holland wasn't so much protecting Babcock, as he was prioritizing the status quo above all else. As long as Detroit were winning and were annual contenders, he wasn't gonna do jack shit about jeopardizing the situation. If Detroit were perennial losers, we might've seen a completely different story.

 

[um]

This is like when ESPN hired Rush Limbaugh and then fired him for being Rush Limbaugh. Like, what did you expect from Babcock? If anything, this is way less bad than what I would have expected.

ETA: Just to be clear, I thought it was a bad hire and I am fine with him being fired. I just don't understand why the team thought it would turn out any different. Babcock is who he is and is not capable of changing that.

Hey the dude just turned 60, he has plenty of time to grow.

I mean, who is themselves at 60?