Babcock resigning as CBJ Head Coach *Mod note, post #687*

[Doshell Propivo]

It's funny. The word got out that some of the Red Wings players were not happy with what Babcock was doing, and Ken Holland got involved to basically say: "suck it up or get traded." In other words, players perceived what Holland did as protecting Babcock.

What's wilder is that in the time since parting ways in Detroit, you never really see Ken Holland rush to Babcock's defense in anything. Not the Marner situation, or this controversy. In fact, he's uncharacteristically candid about saying players hated the guy and that he was aware of it.
Which tells me that Holland wasn't so much protecting Babcock, as he was prioritizing the status quo above all else. As long as Detroit were winning and were annual contenders, he wasn't gonna do jack shit about jeopardizing the situation. If Detroit were perennial losers, we might've seen a completely different story.

Ding ding...

 

[Chips]

I don't doubt anything else, but Kindl is out to lunch if he thinks he was one of the best in Detroit for any prolonged period of time.

What years was he there so I can see the D core. I don’t think he meant (assuming it’s even translated 100%) a top dman, so much as he and his teammates thought he was playing NHL worthy and getting dropped for someone else anyway

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Bullying people is just no longer tolerated, at any level it's just that simple...........he has a terrible reputation of doing some nasty things...................just because he can.

Those dinosaurs are no longer accepted any longer ( Therrien, Hitch, Babs etc )

You are assuming things that haven’t been reliably claimed by any of the main reporters. We don’t know that he bullied anyone.

I’m not defending Babcock either, but some of you are jumping to conclusions.

 

[BLONG7]

You are assuming things that haven’t been reliably claimed by any of the main reporters. We don’t know that he bullied anyone.

I’m not defending Babcock either, but some of you are jumping to conclusions.

Many past players, and their stories seem to be coming out now............Chelios saw what Babs did to Franzen and said he couldn't believe it....
At the end of the day, it's no sweat off of our backs, but it saves the kids who play now, and who decided no more.....good on them.

Babs was always overrated in my eyes, and now this.......big wow. Seems to be a terrible person.
Big fail.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Many past players, and their stories seem to be coming out now............Chelios saw what Babs did to Franzen and said he couldn't believe it....
At the end of the day, it's no sweat off of our backs, but it saves the kids who play now, and who decided no more.....good on them.

Babs was always overrated in my eyes, and now this.......big wow. Seems to be a terrible person.
Big fail.

I’m talking about what got him fired, not his past with other teams.

 

[Chips]

I’m talking about what got him fired, not his past with other teams.

His past with other teams plays into this firing. He was already on his second chance, has a history of abuse and invasion of privacy (the phone thing wasn’t new, he’s been doing that. A former Leafs player during Babs time there who knows people on CBJ was the guy who tipped off Biz). Players all around the league all know each other and talk about stuff we don’t hear.


More than likely the players decided in communicating with the team management they didn’t want to play for Babs.

 

[BLONG7]

I’m talking about what got him fired, not his past with other teams.

What got him fired, is the same crap.............doesn't know how to talk to people........crossed the lines again...............guy is a giant jerk.
He got let go before he even coached a preseason game..................he is now done like dinner.

I’m talking about what got him fired, not his past with other teams.

What got him fired, is the same crap.............doesn't know how to talk to people........crossed the lines again...............guy is a giant jerk.
He got let go before he even coached a preseason game..................he is now done like dinner.

His past with other teams plays into this firing. He was already on his second chance, has a history of abuse and invasion of privacy (the phone thing wasn’t new, he’s been doing that. A former Leafs player during Babs time there who knows people on CBJ was the guy who tipped off Biz). Players all around the league all know each other and talk about stuff we don’t hear.


More than likely the players decided in communicating with the team management they didn’t want to play for Babs.

Stupid on the Jackets part to even bother, and yet................Jarmo and Davidson should be ashamed of themselves.
Old boys club in the NHL is trying not to die..............dinosaurs. And no I am not a kid, I say this as a 60 year old fan of the game.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

It's funny. The word got out that some of the Red Wings players were not happy with what Babcock was doing, and Ken Holland got involved to basically say: "suck it up or get traded." In other words, players perceived what Holland did as protecting Babcock.

What's wilder is that in the time since parting ways in Detroit, you never really see Ken Holland rush to Babcock's defense in anything. Not the Marner situation, or this controversy. In fact, he's uncharacteristically candid about saying players hated the guy and that he was aware of it.
Which tells me that Holland wasn't so much protecting Babcock, as he was prioritizing the status quo above all else. As long as Detroit were winning and were annual contenders, he wasn't gonna do jack shit about jeopardizing the situation. If Detroit were perennial losers, we might've seen a completely different story.

I agree that winning definitely buys a lot of leeway. If Babcock were winning in Toronto he likely wouldn't have been fired.

As for Holland, he had supported Babcock all along the way including after his firing in Toronto. Here's an interview from around three years ago where he basically refutes or downplays most of the accusations made about Babcock.



You have to remember that when Babcock signed with the Leafs, Holland was offering him a contract to coach the Wings for 5 more years. With this latest incident he's probably smart enough to realize it's better to stay quiet and hope no one points any fingers at him. As GM he had to have a pretty good idea of what was going on and was apparently ok with it.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

I don’t think it’s worth terminating his contract over. That’s serious. That’s not something that happens everyday. This wasn’t a normal firing for bad performance.

Has he probably not learned his lessons? Yes, but what are you expecting with Babcock? He’s not there for player relations. This isn’t a big enough deal that his contract deserves to be terminated.

Of course you don’t. Every time something like this happens, you don’t think it’s as bad as it should be.

 

[Albatros]

What years was he there so I can see the D core. I don’t think he meant (assuming it’s even translated 100%) a top dman, so much as he and his teammates thought he was playing NHL worthy and getting dropped for someone else anyway

He must be talking about spring 2015, he suffered an elbow injury in late January and returned over Grand Rapids about a month later. Scored two goals upon his return and played four more games without anything noteworthy before becoming a healthy scratch for a month. Basically lost his spot to Kyle Quincey. Had a goal and an assist upon return and was scratched again. Played one more game before the playoffs and one in the playoffs without further scoring.

Their LHD group was Kronwall, DeKeyser, Quincey, Ericsson, Smith, Kindl, Ouellet, Lashoff, RHD only Židlický and Marchenko.

Typical pairings Ericsson-Kronwall, DeKeyser-Quincey, Smith-Židlický.

His self-assessment in original: "Pozastavovali se nad tím i sami spoluhráči, protože já mnohdy delší dobu nehrál, pak jsem nastoupil a hned jsem patřil k nejlepším."

I can see why Kindl is sore, but also why Babcock preferred other options over him.

 

[FDBluth]

Hey the dude just turned 60, he has plenty of time to grow.

I mean, who is themselves at 60?

70 is the new mid-life crisis.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

His past with other teams plays into this firing.

How do you know that?

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you are assuming that what happened at past stops influenced the eventual decision here.

 

[Chips]

He must be talking about spring 2015, he suffered an elbow injury in late January and returned over Grand Rapids about a month later. Scored two goals upon his return and played four more games without anything noteworthy before becoming a healthy scratch for a month. Basically lost his spot to Kyle Quincey. Had a goal and an assist upon return and was scratched again. Played one more game before the playoffs and one in the playoffs without further scoring.

Their LHD group was Kronwall, DeKeyser, Quincey, Ericsson, Smith, Kindl, Ouellet, Lashoff, RHD only Židlický and Marchenko.

Typical pairings Ericsson-Kronwall, DeKeyser-Quincey, Smith-Židlický.

His self-assessment in original: "Pozastavovali se nad tím i sami spoluhráči, protože já mnohdy delší dobu nehrál, pak jsem nastoupil a hned jsem patřil k nejlepším."

I can see why Kindl is sore, but also why Babcock preferred other options over him.

Fair enough. At the very least we know that while other coaches would treat their scratched guy with respect, maybe even motivating him to keep working, Babs was just an asshole. Just guessing a bit based on that but he doesn’t sound like a guy especially interested in motivating and helping guys learn improve and develop. At least not in a healthy way.

 

[Albatros]

Fair enough. At the very least we know that while other coaches would treat their scratched guy with respect, maybe even motivating him to keep working, Babs was just an asshole. Just guessing a bit based on that but he doesn’t sound like a guy especially interested in motivating and helping guys learn improve and develop. At least not in a healthy way.

Kindl made it pretty clear that he has little good to say about Babcock as a person, but did praise him as a coach:

"We were also coached by Mike Babcock. As a human being, I can think of him whatever I want, but his emphasis on every detail that makes players better is the reason why as a coach he is so valued. Whether we won or lost, the next day, he had prepared a five-minute analysis of things that we should improve upon, and we would continue to focus on those. He had a different preparation for each game; a detailed strategy for every team in the league.

He taught me how to keep my opponent from the front of the goal, how to stop him from going into a corner, and how to move without a puck. I didn't really know any of these things before, and I never needed to."

 

[Chips]

How do you know that?

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you are assuming that what happened at past stops influenced the eventual decision here.

Reading, listening to all the insider coverage + common sense given everyone had already been surprised he got hired and talking about this is a second chance for him. Nobody would trust this guy with a second “second chance”

If he was squeaky clean before, this maybe slides (though the Biz and company + some insiders have said/hinted there’s more than we’ve heard)


*Also, they kept reporting before he stepped down that the investigation involved talking to players from other teams. I can’t remember if I’m conflating points but I’m pretty sure someone said the player or one of the key players who convinced the PA not to wrap up early was from another team.


It was humiliating for both coach and management to have him “step down”. They wouldn’t do that if the players were like “oh no he’s super nice and misguided” or that they trust him to be better. Dudes had years to change with the times like Torts did, allegedly all but faked his way through that college coaching to rehabilitate his image.

 

[DingerMcSlapshot]

Wonder if Ken Holland is worried the woke mob is coming after him. I hope so. He was an enabler and knew what was going on. I think.

 

[Chips]

Kindl made it pretty clear that he has little good to say about Babcock as a person, but did praise him as a coach:

"We were also coached by Mike Babcock. As a human being, I can think of him whatever I want, but his emphasis on every detail that makes players better is the reason why as a coach he is so valued. Whether we won or lost, the next day, he had prepared a five-minute analysis of things that we should improve upon, and we would continue to focus on those. He had a different preparation for each game; a detailed strategy for every team in the league.

He taught me how to keep my opponent from the front of the goal, how to stop him from going into a corner, and how to move without a puck. I didn't really know any of these things before, and I never needed to."

Fair enough. It’s the motivator part. I remember the difference between me hating my first boss and not my latter. Dread is a distraction

 

[Brookbank]

All industries seem to have these kinds of guys. Everyone knows that they are a borderline fraud and a-hole and yet , someone hires them again. Wierd how that works

 

[End on a Hinote]

It's really too bad that he is the way he is. He, like Ron Maclean before him, was a hockey guy I really wanted to like especially after the 2010 Olympics. Its a damn shame because he really was a good coach that let his lousy ways get the better of him.

This could also explain his dismissal from the University of Saskatchewan a year or so ago.

And what he did to Modano is the very text book example of an unforgivable dick move. Sometime I seriously wonder if Modano can get out of retirement and play one lousy shift for his Stars just to get to that 1500th game (obviously it's not that simple, otherwise he would have by now)

 

[SirKillalot]

Lidstrom about Babcock at 15:40 of the clip:
Red Wings' Nicklas Lidstrom Talks Legacy, Reacts to Accusations Against Former Coach Mike Babcock - WDET 101.9 FM

 

[Barnum]

I’m talking about what got him fired, not his past with other teams.

You seem to think this doesn’t matter? Why is that?

You can’t compartmentalize Babcock’s body of work into separate incidents at this point. That’s not how it works in life.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You seem to think this doesn’t matter? Why is that?

You can’t compartmentalize Babcock’s body of work into separate incidents at this point. That’s not how it works in life.

You are putting words in my mouth. Please cite where I said that.

 

[Barnum]

You are putting words in my mouth. Please cite where I said that.

How do you know that?

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you are assuming that what happened at past stops influenced the eventual decision here.

 

[SirKillalot]

I agree with everything else you said. The way he treated Franzen is imo the worst thing he's done that's public so it's crazy that phone thing is talked about the way it is. He's done actual sociopathic stuff before that affected people's mental state, much worse than making someone uncomfortable by using their phone.

Not that no one is saying what Franzen experienced from his end is wrong, but except for Chelios there hasn't been much of any other players backing his story. Which leads me to believe that either it's blown out of proportion or most players were used to having coaches who on lets say a regular basis gave shit to players and it wasn't in most eyes or ears nothing out of the ordinary rants they have heard. It just fired more on Franzen as he had concussion symptoms etc as well.

Colaiacovo said when he was with Detroit he learned that Red Wings team leaders wanted Babcock fired, and they went to GM Ken Holland each year to try to get rid of the coach.

A story heard several times from that end, but not one of the leaders nor complimentary players have said anything. Only one who everyone knows is Filppula who fell out with Babcock and said it was either or. Ended up with Flip leaving.

What's wilder is that in the time since parting ways in Detroit, you never really see Ken Holland rush to Babcock's defense in anything. Not the Marner situation, or this controversy. In fact, he's uncharacteristically candid about saying players hated the guy and that he was aware of it.
Which tells me that Holland wasn't so much protecting Babcock, as he was prioritizing the status quo above all else. As long as Detroit were winning and were annual contenders, he wasn't gonna do jack shit about jeopardizing the situation. If Detroit were perennial losers, we might've seen a completely different story.

And why should he speak about those. He wasn't there. He doesn't know what happened first hand other places. He said there will always be players disliking the coach as you cannot keep everyone happy. And the reoccurring theme among those players who have said something is either old players at the very tail end of their careers or bottom line scrubs who didn't prove on game to game basis that belonged in a secure role.

Babcock wanted to win, he is sort of a product of his environment, most players were used to it by it's time. For example if it was Kessel he had left out in those matches in his current age instead of Chelios and Modano, people would for sure say he shouldn't complain because he wasn't good enough. I would have used them because they by longevity deserved it, but Babcock didn't.

 

[FDBluth]

Babs gonna Babs.