Babcock resigning as CBJ Head Coach *Mod note, post #687*

[Spring in Fialta]

How do you hire this guy?

GM getting flexed on by his own subordinate.

That's badass from Babcock.

 

[LOFIN]

Jarmo’s comment about him being unapproachable for players problems is absurd. Doesn’t even see how that’s a big issue, not just phones, but what about another Chicago/Beach situation?

Dude has to go IMO. I am far from uber sensitive or wanting to cancel people but bosses that cannot get into the trenches with the guys that are on the front lines are the absolute worst. First boss was like that and it’s completely miserable feeling to be worried you’ll come across “needy” to ask permission to go to a doctors appointment.

I know you as a Pens fan can feel pretty good about your team in this because you have Dubas, who has proven to go above and beyond for his players. But let's face it, that's not the way thing usually are in this league. Can you imagine a player going up to Lou about a similar issue? Yeah, me neither. I don't really think Jarmo is in the minority of the league when it comes to this. Players generally don't interact with the GM all that much. They do exit-interviews, maybe 1 or 2 other times a year they have a chat, that's about it. Maybe some GMs do it more, but even the ones that do it a lot are not really involved in the day-to-day activities of the teams.

And let's translate this to real working life. If I'm a blue collar worker and my superior is pulling Babcock stuff on me, my first reaction isn't going to the CEO, it's calling up my union representative. Which was the case here. Now the step that's missing in this equation is the leadership group of the team and that has to be a concern for CBJ fans.

 

[viper0220]

Imho. No way Babs steps down....unless his Lawyers tell him to. Or he has been fired. Babs may even get Sued by some players. Maybe even the NHLPA or the State. What a Clown.

I am guessing that he has some causes in the “step down contract”.

Say what you will but Babs made a lot of money for a not whole lot of work.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

He probably does know more, but the way he construed it was Gary Bettman and the NHLPA told CBJ management Babs is done.

There’s about dozen different ways to phrase it better if they don’t want to share details. Saying legitimately anything other than “we don’t know”

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Love kicking the seasons off with a hot drama.

 

[viper0220]

You knows Babs was gonna use the material he gathered going through their photos and messaging apps to engage in psychological warfare with the rookies and younger players.

just some absolute toxic mind game sh/t

This is very true and likely what was going to happen, I’d say good that he is out, he would have f***ed up the younger generation of Blue Jackets players.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

How do you hire this guy?

Why did Jarmo agree to that? There's no way. He did this to make public believe:

1. I am aware of this.
2. When he did it to me it was "no big deal".

 

[yianik]

Babcock was out of line with whatever mind crap he was pulling on the players and he is doing this after Toronto. He had to go.

I'm not blaming Columbus management.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

How do you hire this guy?

That's the thing. It's not surprising that a 57 year old who is Babcock's boss might not feel uncomfortable if asked to hand over his phone to show pictures. But Babcock has three kids of his own and was volunteer coaching at a University. Even in the most benign interpretation of whatever went down, his lack of sensitivity of how the power dynamic is different with a young player is pretty staggering.

 

[LOFIN]

That's the thing. It's not surprising that a 57 year old who is Babcock's boss might not feel uncomfortable if asked to hand over his phone to show pictures. But Babcock has three kids of his own and was volunteer coaching at a University. Even in the most benign interpretation of whatever went down, his lack of sensitivity of how the power dynamic is different with a young player is pretty staggering.

That's not just Jarmo though. Jenner and Gaudreau as well. In general, I think there are lots of things in society where we fail to put ourselves in the positions of those in weaker positions. It's not some unique feature certain people have, almost everyone does it to a degree.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

That's not just Jarmo though. Jenner and Gaudreau as well. In general, I think there are lots of things in society where we fail to put ourselves in the positions of those in weaker positions. It's not some unique feature certain people have, almost everyone does it to a degree.

To some degree sure. But Babcock of all people has had multiple instances that should have led him to reevaluate the power dynamic when he is coach and work on being more aware of what it's like for a young player to be coached by someone with his past and reputation.

 

[gach]

Yeah that makes perfect sense.

I cannot believe these youth softies thought this anything but a backbone test that if they stood up for themselves they would be rewarded with ice time and the PK.

We all know Babcock is a man on integrity who has never held vendettas or played mental games or embarrassed players publically. He has never scratched players for an entire year, or been known to say one thing but blatently lie.

This should all be interpreted as a regular coaching technique to illicit moral character.

You are naive.

You sound like Babcock telling me what I am. I'm not a fan of Babcock and I think people should stick up for themselves

 

[CorgisPer60]

Babcock was out of line with whatever mind crap he was pulling on the players and he is doing this after Toronto. He had to go.

I'm not blaming Columbus management.

I am. They knew his history. They hired him. This is on their pointy little heads. Why do you hire the fox to guard the chicken coop?

 

[Channelcat]

Why did Jarmo agree to that? There's no way. He did this to make public believe:

1. I am aware of this.
2. When he did it to me it was "no big deal".

To some people it really isn't a big deal. I know people who will hand you their phone and beg you to look through their shit. Pets, vacation shots etc. I'm like "nah man, I'm good"

 

[TheTotalPackage]

How do you hire this guy?

"The phone thing." Does that mean he asked to see pictures of his kids, or took control of it to snoop through? That's as vague a comment as can be given the situation.

 

[Accelleratii]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I figured Jarmo and JD hired Babcock on the standing that he was in fact a changed man and learned from his past mistakes. I mean, how else could he have gotten job? Sad to say it but clearly this man can't help himself...so for those saying Jarmo should be next to go, I disagree because I'm can only assume that in the many interviews that lead to the hiring Babcock made Jarmo feel comfortable hiring him. But either way, that he quickly addressed the situation once it all came to light speaks to Jarmo's leadership and positive qualities as a manager IMO. Just my .02

 

[Mike C]

Yup. The issue is that a player or two thought it was "kinda weird" to show a coach a photo or two. So what should have been a team-building exercise in openness and the opportunity to be coached by a Cup-winning coach and build on last year's progress... is a soap opera. But because a hockey coach allegedly yelled at a guy or two over the years...posters here are happy.

But it's typical NHL... more outrage over photogate than, say, faking an injury to avoid the salary cap, employing a serial sexual abuser or murderer, or fixing a lottery.

And how can Jarmo still be employed?

he got the boss to show him his phone and downloaded pictures......"not gonna fire me now are you????"

 

[Hanji]

How do you hire this guy?

There's no way that occured. Babcock scrolling through Jarmo's phone? Right.

Mr. Kekäläinen is in saving-his-own-ass mode.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

In a normal job if you're boss retaliates you just quit and get another job. NHL players are "owned" by their team for years. The head coach holds a crapton more power over them than a traditional boss. Saying no could ruin their career.

As said before, it works the other way around as well. As a regular person you can just get fired for whatever reason they want and unless it's due to a very narrow set of legally defined criteria there's very little you can do about it.

An NHL player is a much stronger position because he possesses a rare skill set and cannot be 'easily' replaced. If you can be 'easily' replaced in the NHL you're not going to be in the NHL for more than a minute, and it won't have anything to do with saying "no" to a coach's off-ice request.

This isn't acting where quality is highly subjective, this is also not the 1930s/40s NHL where most players were still pretty close to just being regular guys, a player that can play and is willing to sign a contract will be in the NHL.

There's two conflicting narratives about players popular on these forums, and that's why I thought about the sexual assault angle. On the one hand players are supposedly these egomaniacs who have been allowed to act as they please all their lives, protected by a culture glorifying athletic talent allowing players to get away with all kinds of misconduct because they win games for their coaches and managers. On the other hand we're supposed to believe they're poor, oppressed workers who are victims of their abusive superiors and have no power to even voice disagreement with a request made by them.

At this stage we fully know that it's impossible to run an NHL team against the locker room. No coach can succeed without players pulling in the same direction, and the days where they'll do that no matter what out of some sense of loyalty and esprit de corps are long gone. That's why it's absurd to believe that people 'couldn't speak up' in the moment. They aren't prisoners, they aren't 12 year old gymnasts at their doctors, they're professionals who have a right expect to be treated as such and an obligation to act as such.

 

[LOFIN]

There's no way that occured. Babcock scrolling through Jarmo's phone? Right.

Mr. Kekäläinen is in saving-his-own-ass mode.

Why would he lie about such a fact? When he already knows his ass is safe for the time being?

Babcock has not pulled this only on players, he did it with all the coaches in Toronto.

 

[myleafs]

The Leafs were actually hitting their stride. 2019 was probably the first time they could have won a playoff series, and they didn't, but they lost to a pretty darn good team. Babs is fired in November of 2019, a month and a half into a season, you really think it was Keefe that turned the Leafs around? He has won a single playoff series in his coaching career. And then they lost to a Cinderella team the next round, quite badly as well. Sorry, the guy hasn't had success, he's had plenty of playoff failures. Why he still has a job in Toronto is anyone's guess. So when your replacement has had much more time with an elite team and still not done any better, then I think it is fair to say Babcock probably didn't deserve to get fired in Toronto, let alone now.

When you can find a guy who guided Canada to the international success he has done then maybe we can start comparing.

The leafs were not hitting their stride when Babs got canned....not sure why you would think that. There is a reason he got axed just like there is a reason he got axed again by Columbus. If you think that Babs was doing a good job and that the team didnt get immediately better after he left then either you dont watch the leafs or you are related to Babs. International success? Talk about living in the past.

 

[Peasy]

There's no way that occured. Babcock scrolling through Jarmo's phone? Right.

Mr. Kekäläinen is in saving-his-own-ass mode.

Before stuff was confirmed, there were rumours that he did this to management as well.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Now that more information has surfaced, it was imperative that Columbus moved on from Babcock.

I disagree with the vitriol towards Jenner and Gaudreau though. They were probably being honest about their particular encounters with Babcock and didn't want to rock the boat.

 

[Tripledeke333]

There's no way that occured. Babcock scrolling through Jarmo's phone? Right.

Mr. Kekäläinen is in saving-his-own-ass mode.

This! You get how these things work!

The reason so many bosses get support from their bosses boss for being “power-trippy”, is not because the bosses boss endorses the behavior, but the bosses boss is not the hot seat for hiring someone with this negative trait.

This! You get how these things work!

The reason so many bosses get support from their bosses boss for being “power-trippy”, is not because the bosses boss endorses the behavior, but the bosses boss is not the hot seat for hiring someone with this negative trait.

*on the hot seat

 

[895]

I don't think you can blame Jarmo for hiring Babcock and giving him a second change. You can still do your due diligence and still be wrong about something.

However when the accusation came out and then the Blue Jackets did a 10 second investigation and basically swept it under the rug, then it became a fireable offense. He clearly didn't do due diligence there.

Jarmo should be fired.