Babcock resigning as CBJ Head Coach *Mod note, post #687*

[DamonDRW]

Modano wasn’t just one game. It was 42 games.

He needed 41 games played to hit the milestone that season, Babcock strung him along all season with frequent scratches and sure enough he only ended up at 40. A decent coach would have found that one extra game SOMEWHERE in the schedule to help him get there.

Modano was pretty much useless that season. Frankly, he played 40 more games than he deserved.

 

[AvroArrow]

Babcock and Don Cherry can have coffee everyday and tell each other how great they are.

Don Cherry: "Mike dad Babclock"

 

[oceanchild]

I said it wasn’t a real job, and has very different laws compared to a corporation. Very similar to an influencer or social media star. Hockey players have workplace laws that are a lot more similar to Lizzo’s back up dancers than some accounting job. It’s a real industry.

Labour laws for the same for NHL players as regular folk, including the ability to have a collective agreement that defines the relationship outside or beyond the labour laws. This isn’t at all in any way similar to actors who while belonging to guild do not have a collective agreement that set parameters around wages, hours, or labour conditions and Social Media has even less legal rights and outside of a few have almost no leverage. I really don’t see how you’re connecting these, they are not similar to any other way, with the exception of the people being involved possibly becoming well known and a publicity recognized person. I doubt however Conor McDavid would be as recognized as Kim Kardation walking around most of the US. I also think, to my earlier example, many high end professionals also become famous and news worthy. Like athletes this is usually the bi-product of success, and not the goal of the individuals. They are famous because they are good at their career, not because they wanted to be famous as part of their job.

 

[Channelcat]

I have some questions for anyone who feels Babcock was wronged in this situation, or if his firing/resignation was unnecessary.

Why do you think he wanted people's phones?

Do you think a rookie or youth might have more difficulty saying no?

Does Babcock's previous history with players not make you suspicious?

Their are countless examples of psychopathic behavior. Like when he got involved in the Bell Let's Talk program and then goes on TSN and says hes never actually known anyone with depression. That interview was so f--ked I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

 

[Mike C]

That is exactly what I suggested they should do. "Can you show me your phone?" "Nope, sorry that's my personal phone and I'd rather not." According to most folks here it's impossible to expect any employee ever to say No to any request from a supervisor ever however. The only solution is to comply and then later on gossip about it.

one of the most valuable lessons i've ever learned is that "NO" is a complete sentence

 

[HandshakeLine]

Lol

 

[Satans Hockey]

I guess some people wouldn't have a problem if their immediate supervisor told them they needed to have a snooper installed on their home router that the supervisor can monitor.

After all, you've got nothing to hide, do you?

You would be surprised at how many people wouldn't. Just look at how many people put gadgets like Alexa, Google home, Siri, cameras throughout the inside of their homes, cell phones that listen to us, the overuse and over sharing on social media, facial recognition that's becoming more used in places etc, etc, etc.

Lots of people unfortunately don't care about privacy and use that phrase "you've got nothing to hide, do you?" to defend not caring about it.

 

[Sol]

What if he was just playing Candy Crush?

Definitely weird behavior. Don’t see how anyone respects that.

 

[Mike C]

So..."we should probably fire JD and Jarmo but we're waiting because the timing is awkward, but we're publicly acknowledging all this because its obvious that everybody is talking about it, dont worry we'll fire them when we're eliminated from playoff contention in February"

February???

 

[Peasy]

That is exactly what I suggested they should do. "Can you show me your phone?" "Nope, sorry that's my personal phone and I'd rather not." According to most folks here it's impossible to expect any employee ever to say No to any request from a supervisor ever however. The only solution is to comply and then later on gossip about it.

Youre still missing the point but maybe youll get there one day.

 

[bobholly39]

So I have two questions:

1. Since he "resigned" vs being fired...what about his salary? Is he still paid, or not? Anyone know?

2. He asked to see a player's phone/photos...is that it? Did he do anything unethical with photos? Did he use photos to make fun of the player/share with rest of team? Did he somehow react inappropriately to some photos in front of player (ex: comment on a girl's hotness, or kids, or etc)? Or is the totality of this based on "it's inappropriate for your boss to ask you to see personal photos on your phone"?

My understanding is that the bolded is all that he did wrong...which really isn't that bad. If there's more to it - I'd love to understand it. Kind of hard to get to the bottom of facts with 1200+ replies to shift through.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

if you watch this, it's clear that openness is important to Coach Babcock, not hiding your porn pix and stuff

 

[tarheelhockey]

I guess that's fair enough but then what do you make of that Jarmo quote about finding safe ways to share pictures? To me, that sounds like a pretty clear admission of a f***-up on Babcock's part.

Same with Friedman (post-firing) detailing that Babcock went through a player's phone for several minutes outside team facilities (info we did not have pre-firing/report).

Too much smoke to think this was an isolated nothingburger that sunk Babcock because of perception.

The thing about him having the player’s phone outside the player’s control is just bizarre and a huge problem if true. I can’t conceive of why anyone would do that or think it was ok. And it’s really strange that none of the other players seemed to know about it. I guess we’ll just see how it plays out, but that detail carries different gravity than the rest of what’s been said.

 

[Caroline Says ll]

Because the "obvious explanation" is usually done under the guise of cancel culture and the degenerate state of media.



I just don't put a lot of trust in guys like Bissonnette and Commodore. To me they are vultures who have been capitalizing/monetizing on the toxic aspects of the social media complex. Maybe if someone like Lidstrom or Scott Niedermayer came out with this info I'd be more convinced, but I can't ignore the fact that in a lot of these episodes of an "old school guy" getting destroyed by a former player, the millennial entitlement factor has to be part of the equation.

Okay, but now you have supporting reports that he had someone's phone outside of a work facility for several minutes. You have reports that youth players were very uncomfortable.

Why do you think he asked for their phones?

Does previous statements from guys like Jason York and Chris Chelios help you with a more credible critique of Babcock?

 

[Mike C]

Modano lacerated his wrist in November and was out until the end of February.

Babcock is a tithead, and Modano should have been played every game once they were in, but he missed 3 months due to a freak injury, not Babcok.

theoretically, he could have come back the next season and gotten his game in if it was that important for his posterity. much like Adam Wainwright who is stuck at 199 wins with 3 starts left for the Cards in baseball. if he cares that much, he can see if some team will give him the chance to get it next season if he can't do it in the next 2 weeks

 

[Ezekial]

1. Since he "resigned" vs being fired...what about his salary? Is he still paid, or not? Anyone know?

They negotiated a settlement and he resigned, we will never see the terms of this settlement.

 

[BKarchitect]

if you watch this, it's clear that openness is important to Coach Babcock, not hiding your porn pix and stuff

He's not resigning because people think he's trying to perv out or get a kid in trouble for whatever photos a 20 year-old may have on their phone. This isn't the issue.

 

[Mike C]

So I have two questions:

1. Since he "resigned" vs being fired...what about his salary? Is he still paid, or not? Anyone know?

2. He asked to see a player's phone/photos...is that it? Did he do anything unethical with photos? Did he use photos to make fun of the player/share with rest of team? Did he somehow react inappropriately to some photos in front of player (ex: comment on a girl's hotness, or kids, or etc)? Or is the totality of this based on "it's inappropriate for your boss to ask you to see personal photos on your phone"?

My understanding is that the bolded is all that he did wrong...which really isn't that bad. If there's more to it - I'd love to understand it. Kind of hard to get to the bottom of facts with 1200+ replies to shift through.

i think i read where they negotiated terms of his departure. i'd guess they paid him to get lost rather than have him want to stick around insisting he did nothing wrong and being a side show

now all they'll have to do is worry about why their team sucks

 

[Caroline Says ll]

So I have two questions:

1. Since he "resigned" vs being fired...what about his salary? Is he still paid, or not? Anyone know?

2. He asked to see a player's phone/photos...is that it? Did he do anything unethical with photos? Did he use photos to make fun of the player/share with rest of team? Did he somehow react inappropriately to some photos in front of player (ex: comment on a girl's hotness, or kids, or etc)? Or is the totality of this based on "it's inappropriate for your boss to ask you to see personal photos on your phone"?

My understanding is that the bolded is all that he did wrong...which really isn't that bad. If there's more to it - I'd love to understand it. Kind of hard to get to the bottom of facts with 1200+ replies to shift through.

Babcock could have just asked to see pictures of people's families or their lives. Have people gather that garbage and show it on their terms. Instead it was spur of the moment, 1 on 1 or even possibly without someones consent at all.

I really do not understand this divide at people looking at this and wondering why it is weird or unacceptable. Why did he want their phones? Why did he himself want to be the one scrolling through it?

Also at play are youth factors. If you are Cole Sillinger, and Babcock asks for your phone and you want to say no, but realise that another young player that you might be competing with for icetime had already agreed, are you still likely to say no? You know Babcock's history of basically scratching players for entire seasons, or benching them for no reasonable cause.

 

[Mike C]

Okay, but now you have supporting reports that he had someone's phone outside of a work facility for several minutes. You have reports that youth players were very uncomfortable.

Why do you think he asked for their phones?

Does previous statements from guys like Jason York and Chris Chelios help you with a more credible critique of Babcock?

the easiest explanation is when i wanted to make a clandestine call to say a bookie or a mistress it was easy to say "hey dave, my battery's low, can i borrow your phone for a quick sec"

 

[Caroline Says ll]

That is exactly what I suggested they should do. "Can you show me your phone?" "Nope, sorry that's my personal phone and I'd rather not." According to most folks here it's impossible to expect any employee ever to say No to any request from a supervisor ever however. The only solution is to comply and then later on gossip about it.

There is nuance and it is missing you completely.

If you are a young player and want to say no, are there repercussions that come with saying no? Can ice time, powerplay, scratches be determined on this information?

 

[LOFIN]

I don't know if this is really Voracek but he doesn't think Jarmo should be canned lol

 

[Saga of the Elk]

He's not resigning because people think he's trying to perv out or get a kid in trouble for whatever photos a 20 year-old may have on their phone. This isn't the issue.

Yup. The issue is that a player or two thought it was "kinda weird" to show a coach a photo or two. So what should have been a team-building exercise in openness and the opportunity to be coached by a Cup-winning coach and build on last year's progress... is a soap opera. But because a hockey coach allegedly yelled at a guy or two over the years...posters here are happy.

But it's typical NHL... more outrage over photogate than, say, faking an injury to avoid the salary cap, employing a serial sexual abuser or murderer, or fixing a lottery.

And how can Jarmo still be employed?

 

[JABEE]

Imagine if you were an in-the-closet and not out to your employer/public gay person playing for Columbus. Your first meeting with the person who will make a decision on your dream wants to root through your phone.

 

[Mike C]

You would be surprised at how many people wouldn't. Just look at how many people put gadgets like Alexa, Google home, Siri, cameras throughout the inside of their homes, cell phones that listen to us, the overuse and over sharing on social media, facial recognition that's becoming more used in places etc, etc, etc.

Lots of people unfortunately don't care about privacy and use that phrase "you've got nothing to hide, do you?" to defend not caring about it.

yeah, every now and then when i get done taking a whiz, i wiggle it up towards the ceiling vent so whoever is watching can see what i think of them invading my privacy


does that count under the "you've got nothing to hide" classification?