Babcock resigning as CBJ Head Coach *Mod note, post #687*

[Albatros]

Teemu Selanne said the same thing about Randy Caryle.

Selänne was praising Carlyle as soon as he didn't have to play for him himself. They go way back having played together already in Winnipeg.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Well known POS with a recorded history of abusing his players is being investigated for, once again, being a POS and abusing his players. Reports indicate the investigation isn't looking good for Babcock and he "resigns."

"This could mean anything!"

Why avoid the most obvious explanation to give plausible deniably to a man who has done nothing to deserve the benefit of the doubt?

On the other side of the coin, how was he going to continue coaching there under these circumstances? The locker room is split between veterans who have publicly said this is a non-issue, and young guys who are leaking complaints to the media. It’s already a dumpster fire and the season hasn’t even started yet. Any coach in their right mind would step out of that situation.

 

[Kranix]

I have. Have you heard of ‘right to work’ laws? It’s what the majority of us fall under when we talk about a job, and a union job, especially that is governed under a CBA, can’t be compared to 90%+ of the jobs.

I'm not sure what point you're making. That NHL players aren't compelled to pay union dues?

 

[Captain Mountain]

Yeah, but there's no indication that naked pictures are the issue here. Babcock is a classic coach who uses psychological pressure on players as a coaching method. This kind of action is designed to enforce conformity on the team and put players on their toes.

The reason these kind of techniques allow someone like Babcock to win Stanley Cups and Olympic medals is that they quite often work. They're very unpleasant for the players, and half the players on any roster he ever coached likely hate his guts, but they often get results. Of course, these methods basically lose whatever power they may have had when players have avenues to put pressure on the coach and thus can gain leverage.

It's obvious that this is the case now, so that's why Babcock's usefulness as a coach is basically zero at this point, and CBJ were very stupid for hiring him. But people who think this is about Babcock being a 'weirdo creep' or 'pervert' are missing the point entirely.

I strongly suspect that Babcock's reputation preceded him, and that most of the CBJ players knew they were in for a rough ride this coming season. I think that a number of those guys never had any intention of working with Babcock, they just knew that leaking what happens behind scenes will do the job for them. I'm not crying for Babcock here, I'm critical of the passive aggressive 'intrigue via leak' approach and have always been. It's toxic in its own way.

We have no idea if those techniques actually work though. Mike Babcock won exactly one Stanley Cup with a more veteran Red Wings team with elite players who came up under Bowman and the Red Wings decline was under him. He won Olympic medals with stacked Canadian teams.

He was (is?) definitely a good coach, but the knock against him wasn't that he crosses the line with veterans. Guys like Gaudreau and Jenner stood up for him because he wasn't playing games with them. Detroit with Babcock as coach (and even well before that) was famous for leaving guys in the minors for as long as possible and Canada's Olympic teams were a collection of players that Babcock would never play those games with.

Buy in and working hard together is important, but other coaches have achieved that without the same methods.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

On the other side of the coin, how was he going to continue coaching there under these circumstances? The locker room is split between veterans who have publicly said this is a non-issue, and young guys who are leaking complaints to the media. It’s already a dumpster fire and the season hasn’t even started yet. Any coach in their right mind would step out of that situation.

But that's completely self-inflicted. It's pretty safe to assume that the way he went about it with the vets (let's share some family pictures) and the young players (give me your phone and I'll scroll for several minutes) were wildly different. The former is alright, the latter is 100 percent abusive and a fireable offence.

 

[Tripledeke333]

On the other side of the coin, how was he going to continue coaching there under these circumstances? The locker room is split between veterans who have publicly said this is a non-issue, and young guys who are leaking complaints to the media. It’s already a dumpster fire and the season hasn’t even started yet. Any coach in their right mind would step out of that situation.

I feel like what Boon Jenner says publicly, is likely not what he says privately. I feel like a public call out brings more drama to the situation, and that is not something the players want. Likely, Babcock crossed a line, but it was not something so evil it deserved a public call out. Babcock agreed to resign in exchange for these comments to he can try to save face.

 

[oceanchild]

It’s not at all. It’s more comparable to influencers and social media stars. People trying to compare it to a job in the accounting department or at a law firm are way off base here.

No way, social influencers or media stars don’t commit to training for a singular objective for years on end and have to compete for limited spaces for jobs within structured organizations. Those groups work within loose affiliations, sponsorships, and contracts. These contracts may require them to be some place for a period of time, but not in the same way as a professional grinding out hours at a career. Yes, actors can be professionals and have a career, but that path isn’t structured in the same way at all, and has wild variations between individuals on how they got to that point. This isn’t the case with highly educated or highly trained athletes or office types. The all follow a reasonably similar path with understood objectives and goals. So, I don’t agree with you at all, and think you couldn’t be more wrong.

I also think social influencers are a waste of space. I am on a trip around the world with my wife and three kids and am in Thailand, we started in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia and then Hong Kong. These morons walking around with selfy sticks and posing at the beach with mirrors and lights are a plague. It’s like this river or narcotic behaviour, where they expect everyone to get out of the way to allow for the perfect shot. I have been photo bombing every chance I get! They don’t get credit for being anything more than slackers looking for attention.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

An NHL team is a corporation, and the players sign employment contracts. They're unionized and collect paychecks for doing things for the corporation. Do you understand? You're seeing the perks and attention and think pro sports isn't an industry?

I said it wasn’t a real job, and has very different laws compared to a corporation. Very similar to an influencer or social media star. Hockey players have workplace laws that are a lot more similar to Lizzo’s back up dancers than some accounting job. It’s a real industry.

 

[Breakers]

You knows Babs was gonna use the material he gathered going through their photos and messaging apps to engage in psychological warfare with the rookies and younger players.

just some absolute toxic mind game sh/t

 

[PeE eL DuBoiS]

If somebody's hot take for the offseason was Babcock being hired as CBJ's coach but subsequently being fired without coaching a single game, we would have laughed that person out of the hot take thread for being ridiculous.

This is better than fiction.

 

[TGWL]

Because of the firing, I believe the situation was more “I demand everyone let me go through your phone, or you will have less ice time” and less “please everyone submit one photo that represents who you are so we all can bond”.

I don't think anybody would have had a problem with the latter scenario. That seems reasonable lol.

 

[SpezDispenser]

I mean....look to who hired him as well. What nonsense.

 

[DingerMcSlapshot]

Babcock and Don Cherry can have coffee everyday and tell each other how great they are.

 

[tarheelhockey]

But that's completely self-inflicted. It's pretty safe to assume that the way he went about it with the vets (let's share some family pictures) and the young players (give me your phone and I'll scroll for several minutes) were wildly different. The former is alright, the latter is 100 percent abusive and a fireable offence.

Why is it safe to say that?

I agree that his issues are self inflicted due to past behavior, but there’s also a pretty wild variance in the players’ understanding of his present actions. In the public square, we flat-out don’t know the truth of the matter.

In any case, there was no path forward for him in Columbus. His resignation isn’t necessarily an indicator of guilt.

 

[Sheppy]

We're so far off the rails, lol.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Why is it safe to say that?

I agree that his issues are self inflicted due to past behavior, but there’s also a pretty wild variance in the players’ understanding of his present actions. In the public square, we flat-out don’t know the truth of the matter.

In any case, there was no path forward for him in Columbus. His resignation isn’t necessarily an indicator of guilt.

It's safe to say that because that's what Gaudreau and Jenner said from their end and it's what credible reporters reported happening for younger players.

I agree that the situation was untenable no matter what. I also think it's pretty obvious that Babcock went overboard (to put it lightly) regardless of his past while the Jackets HC.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I feel like what Boon Jenner says publicly, is likely not what he says privately. I feel like a public call out brings more drama to the situation, and that is not something the players want. Likely, Babcock crossed a line, but it was not something so evil it deserved a public call out. Babcock agreed to resign in exchange for these comments to he can try to save face.

Again there is no evidence that any of these things are true. Jenner could easily have said something toned-down like “he didn’t make me uncomfortable, this is between us in the room” if that’s what he meant. Instead he was emphatic that nothing improper happened.

To be clear, I’m not saying something improper didn’t happen. I’m saying there is no way to know the truth of the situation, based on what’s being reported with actual evidence so far. A lot of this story is being carried by speculation and “I’m hearing that…”

 

[Nineteen67]

The NHLPA director already said it was a lack of respect in the professional work place.

Mike Babcock is too high on Mike Babcocks imaginary wrench to respect other human beings. The embarrassment the players are serving all over his face is well deserved

But we don’t know what he did. We know NHLPA executive director has a rather shady background too. Do we trust him?

 

[tarheelhockey]

It's safe to say that because that's what Gaudreau and Jenner said from the end and it's what credible reporters reported happening for younger players.

I very well may have missed something that Gaudreau and Jenner said on that topic. Would you mind linking or copy/pasting it?

 

[Nineteen67]

32 Thoughts podcast: Mike Babcock resigns as Blue Jackets head coach

The Mike Babcock era has come and gone in Columbus. Jeff and Elliotte discuss Babcock resigning and how we got to this point with the Blue Jackets.

www.sportsnet.ca

Friedman also said that the player might not have even been around when he was goin through his phone too.

That sheds some light on it. If the player wasn’t around then that’s different than asking to look at family pics.

 

[Monk]

I very well may have missed something that Gaudreau and Jenner said on that topic. Would you mind linking or copy/pasting it?

This blog post from 9/13 with player quotes summarizes pretty well.

Zach Werenski and Johnny Gaudreau Support Coach Mike Babcock In Light of Photo-Sharing Allegations

Defenseman Zach Werenski and forward Johnny Gaudreau supported Columbus Blue Jackets head coach Mike Babcock in light of photo-sharing allegations.

www.1stohiobattery.com

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I very well may have missed something that Gaudreau and Jenner said on that topic. Would you mind linking or copy/pasting it?

On Mobile so it's kind of annoying but I'm just talking about Jenner's released statement and Gaudreau media questions. I don't think they're lying at all and I think that their interactions with Babcock have been positive/innocent (probably helped by their status on the team).

I believe it was Friedman who reported that young player(s) had to hand over their phone and Babcock went through them. Russo reported something similar (that young players walked into a meeting and had to hand their phone over on the spot).

 

[AvroArrow]

How is CBJ's management still there? Jarmo failed epically on this hire.

Even worse he doubled down and tried to cover it up. It's a tough decision though because he's made some really good moves for CBJ as well.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Always liked the Jackets - so feel bad for the organization because this looks terrible. I don't understand why Jarmo thought this would be a good idea. This just reinforces what I always thought about Babcock after hearing about the MM incident in TOR. The guy is a dinosaur, and I can't believe he bamboozled the Jackets into getting another chance.

Silver lining - at least the whole incident happened immediately before MB could do lasting damage and the Jackets can move on.

GL to the new coach - hopefully with a full training camp he can put his stamp on the team.

 

[robertmac43]

Even worse he doubled down and tried to cover it up. It's a tough decision though because he's made some really good moves for CBJ as well.

Second line is true to an extent. He has been there for a decade now with limited success. I love that he went for it with Panarin that one year and the TB sweep is legendary, but it's not CBJ has been a winning spot in his tenure.