Babcock fired by the Leafs discussion

[Einzakin]

He's missed the playoffs twice in sixteen years and been fired once despite working for 3 NHL teams. I know it was time for him to go, but his as much as the local media wants to tear him down, his reputation isn't bad, it's not what it was, but it's not bad. He challenged some people in a way people found off-putting, but this is professional sports, a ton of **** is tolerated if you believe it will get you results. He's probably not a candidate for every job in the league, but considering about 20% to 25% turnover their coaching staff every season. 19 of the NHL current 31 NHL coaches were not with their team prior to the end of the 2016-17 regular season (that also doesn't count a guy like Housley and Hitchcock in Dallas being hired full-time and fired in that time-frame) and only 3 coaches were with their current team prior to us hiring Babs. He'll be a candidate for at least 50% of those jobs and probably closer to 75%. Also, keep in mind that 10 of these 19 coaches had previous head coaching experience. Do you really think if we see between 12-16 coaching changes in the next 24 months (not an uncommon expectation) that someone with Babs resume won't get one of those jobs?

Go look at his playoff record over the last 10 years. I get all the other stuff but there are so many reasons why a GM shouldn't hire him. He's honestly not a great coach and the league has evolved to puck possession and will only continue to do so, not grinding.

 

[93LEAFS]

Go look at his playoff record over the last 10 years. I get all the other stuff but there are so many reasons why a GM shouldn't hire him. He's honestly not a great coach and the league has evolved to puck possession and will only continue to do so, not grinding.

And, I'm saying, even if you think he's a bad coach (which I wouldn't agree with, he's league average at worst), it would be foolish to think he doesn't get another job unless he gets outed as a racist or something so unprofessional that it makes him toxic (and the Mitch Marner situation doesn't even come close to approaching that).

And to be honest, how many times did he lose in the playoffs as the favored team in the past 10 years? The only two he's lost with home-ice are 2012 vs Arizona and 2009 Cup finals.

You want to talk about the league evolving into heavy puck-possession systems, we literally just watched Hitchcock and Tippett hired in the last 12 months.

You disputed the claim it would be easy for him to find a job. Given how the NHL operates, I find that a bit of a comical claim. Barring some sort of bombshell about unprofessional conduct, if he wants an NHL job, he will most likely have one by the start of next season, and I can't see him not having one by the start of 2021-22.

 

[Notsince67]

The Hyman/Babcock thing was always one of the more idiotic takes on this board.

I dont believe there will be a lot of introspection around here. Hyman is a great player to have. His work ethic shows every game. Some people have changed their views but many have just gone silent with their bashing because it no longer fits the practical reality...that he makes this team better and has earned his position

 

[hullsy47]

Go look at his playoff record over the last 10 years. I get all the other stuff but there are so many reasons why a GM shouldn't hire him. He's honestly not a great coach and the league has evolved to puck possession and will only continue to do so, not grinding.

How does nick shore or timo make this team before engvall
U wonder how many more marlies are ready
Babcock is just a bully mule

 

[deletethis]

Imagine if he takes over Coach's Corner and we got to hear the real gud pros gud family man eat well sleep well feeds family bull**** with country music in the background.

It might would be worth it just to experience the delicious whining about him being on Coach's Corner.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

I have no doubt that Babcock firing was a well organized coup. They have replaced two key dmen, Zaytsev and Hainsey, who wouldn't cooperate... After that they had no problem at all. I was never a fan of Babcock, but he wasn't that bad. Suspicious loses at home... lots of games left to make the playoffs. Weak competition. Well calculated moves.

I carry the same sentiment. Shanny and Dubas are always very cognizant of the Toronto mass media hype and the proverbial crapstorms and fireworks that follow every move they make.

IMHO, they knew last seasons playoffs he was going to be fired... too many blunders and too many chances to beat Boston...Marleau. etc.

Anyways...

What better way to shut the media up, and broadcast the flaws of Babcock to all of the hockey world than to let him play 20 Games using his crap system and fail. What better way than to leave 100% no doubt that Babs was wrong despite results going forward.

If Babs was gone in summer half the media might defend Babs and attack Dubas if the leafs falter. We all know now 99.9 of the media and fans, are cheering at Babs firing.

By using players who have tuned him out and garnered massive dislike for him, the Marlie callups give hint that Keefe might get the callup, and somehow in that glimpse of hope... The leafs core decided to play extra crap to setup the next step management was planning on anyway.

A coup d'etat.

 

[stonec]

So would anyone with the rosters he had. The last olympic team was probably the best hockey team in the history of the world.

Why is this argument still being made? History has proven it wrong, Canada in this decade has an incredibly poor winning record without Babcock both in U20 and world championship tournaments. In fact, the only two men's golds Canada managed to win without Babcock have been with former Babcock assistant coaches.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I carry the same sentiment. Shanny and Dubas are always very cognizant of the Toronto mass media hype and the proverbial crapstorms and fireworks that follow every move they make.

IMHO, they knew last seasons playoffs he was going to be fired... too many blunders and too many chances to beat Boston...Marleau. etc.

Anyways...

What better way to shut the media up, and broadcast the flaws of Babcock to all of the hockey world than to let him play 20 Games using his crap system and fail. What better way than to leave 100% no doubt that Babs was wrong despite results going forward.

If Babs was gone in summer half the media might defend Babs and attack Dubas if the leafs falter. We all know now 99.9 of the media and fans, are cheering at Babs firing.

By using players who have tuned him out and garnered massive dislike for him, the Marlie callups give hint that Keefe might get the callup, and somehow in that glimpse of hope... The leafs core decided to play extra crap to setup the next step management was planning on anyway.

A coup d'etat.

I find this hard to believe, it just sounds too complicated.

Why is this argument still being made? History has proven it wrong, Canada in this decade has an incredibly poor winning record without Babcock both in U20 and world championship tournaments. In fact, the only two men's golds Canada managed to win without Babcock have been with former Babcock assistant coaches.

Team Canada winning with Babcock and losing without him is just coincidence IMO. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, it's not like Babcock is the only guy who knows how to coach and just like any team, it's mostly the players and not the coach who decides things in the end. Plus there's the issue of sample size, these tournaments are so short so ... no way to prove it either way.

Coaching Team Canada and coaching an NHL team are two very different things so I don't really see how it matters anyway.

 

[GoonieFace]

Babcock is a good coach. Once Dubas took over, you could tell Babcock essentially mailed it in. He made insane decisions that nobody on earth would make, and its not because he though it was the right move, he made those moves to spite management. He constantly criticized every move Dubas made, and he ensured that he implemented a style that didn't suit Dubas' vision. He dared Dubas to fire him, and he essentially waited too long, but hopefully things have turned around for good.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I dont believe there will be a lot of introspection around here. Hyman is a great player to have. His work ethic shows every game. Some people have changed their views but many have just gone silent with their bashing because it no longer fits the practical reality...that he makes this team better and has earned his position

Babcock picked Hyman to be his golden boy to hold over all of his other players on day 1, to play exclusively on the teams top line, every single game, for four seasons. The guy repeatedly T-boned praise of guys like Marner, Matthews or Tavares by saying it's all about Hyman, effectively insulting those players saying the were carried by someone else.

Now, with Babcock gone, I can finally just appreciate Hyman for what he is, rather than rolling my eyes and feeling resentment everytime his name comes up.

 

[Joedoggy]

Be thankful for a new beginning...yet remember the fans will pay for the contract owing

 

[Gary Nylund]

Babcock is a good coach. Once Dubas took over, you could tell Babcock essentially mailed it in. He made insane decisions that nobody on earth would make, and its not because he though it was the right move, he made those moves to spite management. He constantly criticized every move Dubas made, and he ensured that he implemented a style that didn't suit Dubas' vision. He dared Dubas to fire him, and he essentially waited too long, but hopefully things have turned around for good.

A coach who decides to mail it in because he doesn't like the GM is not a good coach.

 

[ACC1224]

Babcock is a good coach. Once Dubas took over, you could tell Babcock essentially mailed it in. He made insane decisions that nobody on earth would make, and its not because he though it was the right move, he made those moves to spite management. He constantly criticized every move Dubas made, and he ensured that he implemented a style that didn't suit Dubas' vision. He dared Dubas to fire him, and he essentially waited too long, but hopefully things have turned around for good.

Yeah, was pretty childish on his part.
He did seem like he needed to prove to everyone that his way would work contrary to the results.

Lets hope it works out better for the new Coach.

 

[LeafSteel]

Babcock is a good coach. Once Dubas took over, you could tell Babcock essentially mailed it in. He made insane decisions that nobody on earth would make, and its not because he though it was the right move, he made those moves to spite management. He constantly criticized every move Dubas made, and he ensured that he implemented a style that didn't suit Dubas' vision. He dared Dubas to fire him, and he essentially waited too long, but hopefully things have turned around for good.

Interesting take. Babcock pretty much accomplished what he wanted in Toronto, in that he got a long-term contract, raised the bar on coach's salaries, and stayed close to his family.

Can see the scenario, where Babcock doesn't like Dubas and that keeping him cost Lou (didn't Babcock, in his exit call Lou his "friend for life??"), and didn't like our young core of Matthews, Nylander, and Marner?

If Babcock doesn't like our guys and Dubas, why not mail it in and get paid for the next 3 years to sit at home? Babcock has nothing left to prove in hockey and will be behind a bench whenever he wants to be, and not having to deal with a group he doesn't like and a hockey market that freak's out at anything and everything?

I can see it.......

 

[Dough72]

Our media is going to end up turning fans against the new coach. It's fine if Shanahan/Dubas told the Rogers people to sell the new guy to the fans but they need to tone it down already, it's so over the top it's actually made me laugh out loud a few times. Barrie flicks a puck at the net and it bounces off a skate "coaching" and "new system". Last night one of them was gushing about how Nylander will thrive in the new system because "he likes to carry the puck and use his speed" as if he hasn't been doing that the entire time here. They were even doing it the first game and I don't think he even had a practice with the team yet. If I have to listen to them keep selling coaching and system in a league where 95% of a teams success comes down to the roster and everyone's precious systems are near carbon copies of one another anyways, I'll probably end up turning on him myself.

 

[GoonieFace]

A coach who decides to mail it in because he doesn't like the GM is not a good coach.

Typically, a GM picks their coach. So when Lou was there from the beginning, he and Babcock shared the same philosophy and things were good. The team improved, the younger players did thrive (aside from popular belief). Once Lou was let go and Dubas took over, Babcock essentially saw the writing on the wall. He constantly criticized Dubas' player acquisitions and essentially was egging him on. He knew very well the team he had was not suited to the style of play he liked, and the style of play he thought was necessary to win a Cup. Hes not a stupid guy, he basically fired himself, it should have been done earlier, but early results are good.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I dont think so. I think alot of people are changing their attitudes on hockey especially GMs. New game, younger coucher and people who are more open. I think he's closed the door on alot of places.

He’s number 8 in all time wins for a coach, out of that top ten wins of all time, only Bowman has a better winning percentage.

Babcock will coach again if he wants to. His time was up here but he’s an upgrade over lots of coaches.

 

[Super Mega]

Shame it couldn't have been done in the off season, especially if it was a chance for Keefe to choose an assistant. You do get a sense this has been brewing for a good part of the season not just the 6 game skid.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Typically, a GM picks their coach. So when Lou was there from the beginning, he and Babcock shared the same philosophy and things were good. The team improved, the younger players did thrive (aside from popular belief). Once Lou was let go and Dubas took over, Babcock essentially saw the writing on the wall. He constantly criticized Dubas' player acquisitions and essentially was egging him on. He knew very well the team he had was not suited to the style of play he liked, and the style of play he thought was necessary to win a Cup. Hes not a stupid guy, he basically fired himself, it should have been done earlier, but early results are good.

Sure, I get what you're saying. Maybe it happened that way, maybe not. All I'm saying is that if that is what happened then it's a disgrace because when you're paid 50 million dollars to do a job, then you do it to the best of your ability. If you don't because circumstances around you have changed in a way that you don't like, well put it this way, I wouldn't even consider hiring him if I think that this is what happened.

If he wanted out, he should have asked out. Or kept doing his job despite the circumstances not being ideal for him. Either way, that would have been the stand-up thing to do.

Maybe he's not a stupid guy but if this is what he did then he lacks integrity.

 

[Teeder Keon]

He’s number 8 in all time wins for a coach, out of that top ten wins of all time, only Bowman has a better winning percentage.

Babcock will coach again if he wants to. His time was up here but he’s an upgrade over lots of coaches.

Depending on the make up of the team
I think he would do great with Seattle
But not so gud with a team like the sens ..

 

[ULF_55]

Flames need a new Head Coach.
Red Wings look like they need a new Head Coach.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Flames need a new Head Coach.
Red Wings look like they need a new Head Coach.

Peters is available

 

[zeke]

I think what is driving all this anger at Babs is that mosst all of us think that he easily COULD have been a better coach, and part of this turnaround.

But instead he decided to double down on his ego, and try to stick it to his young GM.

It was his choice, imo. He's smart enough to learn new things. Keefe isn't a rocket surgeon.

 

[The Podium]

Our media is going to end up turning fans against the new coach. It's fine if Shanahan/Dubas told the Rogers people to sell the new guy to the fans but they need to tone it down already, it's so over the top it's actually made me laugh out loud a few times. Barrie flicks a puck at the net and it bounces off a skate "coaching" and "new system". Last night one of them was gushing about how Nylander will thrive in the new system because "he likes to carry the puck and use his speed" as if he hasn't been doing that the entire time here. They were even doing it the first game and I don't think he even had a practice with the team yet. If I have to listen to them keep selling coaching and system in a league where 95% of a teams success comes down to the roster and everyone's precious systems are near carbon copies of one another anyways, I'll probably end up turning on him myself.

Everything you posted in here is wrong. Yes, I understand that it is a bit premature to be gushing over the new coach when he has barely had time to actually implement his system. But pay attention to the small details, not the overall game. He has clearly encouraged his players to maintain possession rather than chip and chase or stretch pass. He has clearly instructed players to come lower in the D zone rather than waiting at the point to clear the zone. The leafs are taking a triangle approach where the puck carrier always has 3 options, with the third always behind with momentum. This team is playing possession hockey, taking low risk short passes to gain zone entry, which wasnt the case under Babcock. Once they are in the Ozone, they are forcing the puck to the slot, and using the same triangle approach to maintain possession and cycle effectively.

The system is different, definitely better, and the players are responding with inspired play and a smile on their faces.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I think what is driving all this anger at Babs is that mosst all of us think that he easily COULD have been a better coach, and part of this turnaround.

But instead he decided to double down on his ego, and try to stick it to his young GM.

It was his choice, imo. He's smart enough to learn new things. Keefe isn't a rocket surgeon.

It comes down to ego IMO. He just couldn't try winning a different way because HIS way won a cup and medals etc. He really was a stubborn mule...Just the way he would formulate the lines and was unwilling to change them even though it was obvious to everyone they needed changing. He had to prove his SYSTEM was the best (even though not a single branch of his coaching tree has won a cup) to the detriment of our players.

He really felt threatened by a guy like Spezza who he didn't actively pursue like Marleau and Hainsey. I think he was afraid of Spezza usurping his authority in the room after those 2 guys left, so he wanted to flex his muscle by playing mind games with him to start the season. He was afraid of Spezza corrupting the younger players and telling him that Bab's way of doing things is just plain stupid. He couldn't afford for that to happen and we end up with him sitting the first game. I think that is when he totally lost the room for good.

Last nights game against Detroit was a perfect example of Keefe's "system" vs Babs System. We were in their zone like it was a PP for a lot of the night and we hardly broke a sweat...we were ACTING instead of reacting...it was sweet to see for someone who has hated Babs since he was hired...