Babcock fired by the Leafs discussion

[William Hylander]

Can't bench them all, the players should have shown some solidarity.
Guessing most didn't think it was a big deal until they dug deeper into the issue.

Ya its easy for the older wiser of us to come to the conclusion "Hey maybe I shouldn't give this guy my phone"

Different story for younger more naive 18-25 year olds. Realistically they are thinking this is probably my one shot at a 500k salary, even for a few years I better do as Mr. Babcock wants.

Jenner etc. have nothing to worry about, the younger guys on their first contracts?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The whole Babcock dynamic amazes me. He is a very decorated coach, who I do believe is a very good coach despite the way he goes about it, who was the crown jewel of coaches not even a decade ago (the time when the Leafs hired him).

When the initial reports came out and it was merely asking for family photos, I thought it was much ado about nothing. To actually ask for players' phones so he can go scrolling through them borders on sociopathy. I don't even let my wife look at my phone, let alone scroll through it. So no clue what the hell he was thinking.

Realistically though, this isn't independent to Babcock. The whole culture of hockey is disgusting, and it is finally slowly being broken down. From hazing rituals which have always been completely unnecessary and disgusting, to coaches like Babcock, Peters and Tortorella with archaic mentalities. But it is far deep rooted than that -- this "bullying" of younger players starts the moment when they are conducting their pre-draft interviews with teams. Some of the things asked is disgusting mind games being played with vulnerable kids (which they essentially are still). And that includes coaches like Babcock sitting through those interviews.

It will take some time to root out all of us over 50s who played in a completely different culture and era of hockey .. fyi Babs is not really a hard *ss coach .. So many guys in O were far far far more intense and true hard *ss (all with big hearts) .. Bert, Killer, Bougie, Hunter, Selly, Nolly, Stan, Rammer, Mac, Stuey, Topper, Rykes .. da list goes on and on of tap on shoulder coaches who guys would play through da walls for .. you gotta remember we are only 25 years removed from 1st day of camp being staged fights to see if rooks could continue with camp or be sent home .. no one jumped up and down freaked out .. it was normal practice to see if guys had da inner guts to play a tough game when it matters

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Unpopular opinion but I'm not sure what the big deal is.

I'm aware of his past rumoured behavior but this wasn't even close to that stuff.

You know I have a hard time believing that Keefe has never seen a picture of any of his players familes or that they have never seen pictures of his family.

Maybe that's true but I HIGHLY doubt it

 

[Menzinger]

The smart bet is the the more information that comes out the worse it's going to look. This is a league that absolutely does not like to rock the boat, so the fact that it ended the way it did as quickly as it did, I think it's fairly telling.

Some guys are going to have some personal stuff on their phones that they likely goes well beyond just pics of their family that they almost certainly didn't want to have to share with their boss.

 

[Stephen]

I’m curious if this will cause a rift in the room between the CBJ stars of today who probably got the cordial treatment - and defended Babcock - while some of the prospects and young players got something much worse… probably won’t help foster cohesion and trust between the generations…

 

[Peasy]

Unpopular opinion but I'm not sure what the big deal is.

I'm aware of his past rumoured behavior but this wasn't even close to that stuff.

You know I have a hard time believing that Keefe has never seen a picture of any of his players familes or that they have never seen pictures of his family.

Maybe that's true but I HIGHLY doubt it

Youre just gunna ignore the fact that he requested someones while outside of the arena and the proceeded to go through it for several minutes?

That is a lot different than a player going hey look at this pic of my family...

Not sure how so many people continue to fail to grasp this concept.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I’m curious if this will cause a rift in the room between the CBJ stars of today who probably got the cordial treatment - and defended Babcock - while some of the prospects and young players got something much worse… probably won’t help foster cohesion and trust between the generations…

I think it would be pretty hard for the captain and NHLPA rep Boone Jenner to come back from publicly making a statement to defend Babcock. I don't think I'd go as far as to say he deliberately lied about his own meeting, but he probably didn't take the allegations seriously enough and should have checked in with the younger players before taking his stance.

It will probably also generate some resentment between those players and the GM, who had no reason to hire Babcock in the first place and commended his professionalism on the way out

 

[Stephen]

Unpopular opinion but I'm not sure what the big deal is.

I'm aware of his past rumoured behavior but this wasn't even close to that stuff.

You know I have a hard time believing that Keefe has never seen a picture of any of his players familes or that they have never seen pictures of his family.

Maybe that's true but I HIGHLY doubt it

The original story that was presented to the public and backed up by Jenner and Gaudreau seemed like a nothing-ish burger, plausibly innocent enough like a pecha kucha slide show that was misconstrued… but when you factor in the specifics of a Mike Babcock being Mike Babcock. Probably preferential treatment depending on whether you’re a veteran or a kid, the NHL being haunted by the Blackhawks scandal where multiple levels of player leadership, coaching, management was basically involved in a scandal failing the victim, of course there’s no way back for Babcock.

On the other hand I do think Mike Babcock will end up being punished very severely in the court of public opinion, lose his career over what amounts to being a real jerk and maybe unfairly name associated with much worse people in the game… by like the Radiohead lyric goes “you did it to yourself..”

 

[Stephen]

I think it would be pretty hard for the captain and NHLPA rep Boone Jenner to come back from publicly making a statement to defend Babcock. I don't think I'd go as far as to say he deliberately lied about his own meeting, but he probably didn't take the allegations seriously enough and should have checked in with the younger players before taking his stance.

It will probably also generate some resentment between those players and the GM, who had no reason to hire Babcock in the first place and commended his professionalism on the way out

I could see it ripping apart the program and forcing the old leadership out in a sell off. Maybe some blow back to the GM level too.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Unpopular opinion but I'm not sure what the big deal is.

I'm aware of his past rumoured behavior but this wasn't even close to that stuff.

You know I have a hard time believing that Keefe has never seen a picture of any of his players familes or that they have never seen pictures of his family.

Maybe that's true but I HIGHLY doubt it

I agreed with you until the moment it was being highly speculated/suggested that he asked for players' phones and spent minutes scrolling through them.

 

[Future]

There is quite literally zero justification for a coach going through a player’s phone for several minutes.

There is probably a total of zero people I would hand my phone to and encourage them to go through it for several minutes… let alone my boss.

Not sure why some people are saying this isn’t that bad. It’s crazy.

 

[Clark4Ever]

There is quite literally zero justification for a coach going through a player’s phone for several minutes.

There is probably a total of zero people I would hand my phone to and encourage them to go through it for several minutes… let alone my boss.

Not sure why some people are saying this isn’t that bad. It’s crazy.

Agreed. This is such an awkward situation and a player's personal photos have nothing to do with his commitment to his team.

If Babcock just stuck to the Xs and Os of coaching, he wouldn't be in this mess.

Ultimately, his past also caught up with him.

 

[Bichael Munting]

Mike Commodore, of all people, brought up a really good point about privacy. What if a player’s closeted, and not out to his family and teammates? What if that’s part of their photo roll? Who would want to be outed that way, against their wishes, by a guy who’s essentially their boss?

It’s just one example, but privacy matters. And it sounds like Babcock did a little more than ask players to volunteer family photos.

 

[Rob Brown]

Unpopular opinion but I'm not sure what the big deal is.

I'm aware of his past rumoured behavior but this wasn't even close to that stuff.

You know I have a hard time believing that Keefe has never seen a picture of any of his players familes or that they have never seen pictures of his family.

Maybe that's true but I HIGHLY doubt it

Either you aren't fully up to speed on what happened or you are downplaying it. The issue wasn't that Babcock 'saw a picture of his player's families'.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

More will fall in CBJ...

I wish I could re-visit my Boone Jenner trade proposal, but...

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Never disliked a coach more

I’m with you. And, he clearly showed us again why some of us despise the guy much. Imagine having the audacity of trying one of these stunts again when he knew the hockey world was watching. You know he’d use what he’d find against the kid at some point in the future. He’s a contemptible, vile human being.

 

[wingman75]

Either you aren't fully up to speed on what happened or you are downplaying it. The issue

Right... think about your own workplace, on either side of this...

He might have learned some things from his past, but the fact is, Babcock does not know right from wrong when it comes to things like this, he does see the line like most of us do, and that alone makes him inappropriate to be in a leadership position imo. All the things I have read about him (without including this event) made me feel like he is a despicable human being that does not know what respect is.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I’m with you. And, he clearly showed us again why some of us despise the guy much. Imagine having the audacity of trying one of these stunts again when he knew the hockey world was watching. You know he’d use what he’d find against the kid at some point in the future. He’s a contemptible, vile human being.

The offensive thing isn’t the behaviour in a vacuum necessarily, it’s acting like Bowman without any of the winning or talent. The difference between Messier, Towes, or MacK reputations and JT Miller’s reputation is results. You can do a Bowman impression if your team has a reason to believe you doing so will result in a cup, not a 1st round exit.

 

[klmdg]

It amazes me how many people still want to give this guy the benefit of a doubt when it is pretty clear at this point he has a personality that leans heavily towards narcissistic psychopathy, making him a predator by nature

He will form alliances with those he perceives as strong and prey upon those he perceives as weak because his success has always been based upon the predatory axiom of divide and conquer

Guaranteed, walking into a new environment, what he requested of the established and respected players was far different from what he requested of the younger and less established players of whom he intended to find easy prey

 

[IPS]

Mike Commodore, of all people, brought up a really good point about privacy. What if a player’s closeted, and not out to his family and teammates? What if that’s part of their photo roll? Who would want to be outed that way, against their wishes, by a guy who’s essentially their boss?

It’s just one example, but privacy matters. And it sounds like Babcock did a little more than ask players to volunteer family photos.

Well said, the fact that this even needs to be explained is ridiculous.

Player conduct and everything else aside - does Babcock realize how insanely stupid of a thing this was to do? If you exposed something about someone that was very, very private to them (I'll let your imagination do the rest of the work) that could end up in them taking legal action against Babcock and probably winning. WTF would ever risk something like that for? Babcock is a shady character man.

It amazes me how many people still want to give this guy the benefit of a doubt when it is pretty clear at this point he has a personality that leans heavily towards narcissistic psychopathy, making him a predator by nature

When you've been in a relationship with a narcissist before you can spot other narcissists like it's a 6th sense. Babs was an easy spot from day 1.

 

[Bichael Munting]

When you've been in a relationship with a narcissist before you can spot other narcissists like it's a 6th sense. Babs was an easy spot from day 1.

Yep. And it goes beyond a lot of the Mike Babcock-refers-to-himself-as-Mike-Babcock stuff people usually point to.

Pitting players against each other — in Marner’s case — and exploiting power imbalances is all highly manipulative stuff. It’s way beyond how a coach should act.

 

[Fogelhund]

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[Squiffy]

lmao I love how the new guy doing bad makes people think the old shitty guy who did nothing with this team should have gotten it done. You guys are always mad because you just take the position of "whatever we did is wrong and we should have kept the old thing that didn't work".
I think the funniest part is how much you guys believe yourselves and half of you forget you were also shrieking and mad when Bab's was losing in round 1 and giving a 40goal guy 3rd line minutes because he wasn't a vet.
It is extremely funny if you seriously think the last sentence is trade off we'd actually have the option for had we kept Badcock.

Not me. I think most here would consider me unduly optimistic in general. Thought it was a mistake from a coaching perspective to get rid of him. The man can coach hockey. Or least could. Clearly can't in todays NHL. It's a fair point below that the players seem to have quit on him here.

This is no longer about the official outing of Mike Babcock that's way too easy. It's about the outing of the posters here and on other social media who have chosen to defend him despite all the info out there about him or who don't understand or are minimizing what a serious violation of privacy going through someone else's phone is in any setting. That level of delulu is well worth noting.

Well let's be reasonable here, more information has come to light. I have posted multiple times that if the guy was holding someone's phone and just going through pics, now that's a problem, but that's not what was being reported. Am I shocked? No, there's a reason I kept qualifying my opinion on that detail. But surprised a bit? Ya, ya I am, what the hell is wrong with him to actually have done that lol.. legit did not think anyone, even Babs, would do that.

See, it's the optimism thing there again..

As much as I hate on Keefe for getting wrekt by other coaches come playoff time we wouldn't have even made the playoffs the year Babs got fired if he wasn't let go. Like it or not the players quit on him (because he's a jackass)

Ya, touche.

 

[MK78]

Mike Commodore, of all people, brought up a really good point about privacy. What if a player’s closeted, and not out to his family and teammates? What if that’s part of their photo roll? Who would want to be outed that way, against their wishes, by a guy who’s essentially their boss?

It’s just one example, but privacy matters. And it sounds like Babcock did a little more than ask players to volunteer family photos.

I think it would be a complete non story if Babcock simply asked for the players to send to him, or team staff photos they wish to share with him or the team, to be displayed on a tv or whatever.

Not browse their phones.

 

[freshwind]

It will take some time to root out all of us over 50s who played in a completely different culture and era of hockey .. fyi Babs is not really a hard *ss coach .. So many guys in O were far far far more intense and true hard *ss (all with big hearts) .. Bert, Killer, Bougie, Hunter, Selly, Nolly, Stan, Rammer, Mac, Stuey, Topper, Rykes .. da list goes on and on of tap on shoulder coaches who guys would play through da walls for .. you gotta remember we are only 25 years removed from 1st day of camp being staged fights to see if rooks could continue with camp or be sent home .. no one jumped up and down freaked out .. it was normal practice to see if guys had da inner guts to play a tough game when it matters

by Bert - do you mean Templeton?
if so, he was also a very poor human being ... being from Hamilton I knew a number of players that played for him ... some stories are meant to be kept secret but I will say he was a good coach but not a good person at all