Post-Game Talk: B2B spankings, Jets lose 7-4

[DannyGallivan]

Chevy is so passive and risk averse, Im 50-50 if they actually do anything significant in terms of player movement.

One thing people often forget is that Winnipeg is on a lot of no-trade lists. That makes a value-for-value trade difficult. Circumstances lined up perfectly for the Laine-Dubois trade. That is rare, though.

Lots of teams would love to have Scheifele, but we would have to be content with prospects and draft picks. And if we're talking about good teams, then the draft picks would be too low.

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

I don't believe I said he wasn't hurt, but maybe that's how you interpreted it. I said I wonder if the reason why Scheifele is not playing, is because he's been traded, or in talks of being traded. When a player is traded, and still with his former team, one of the conditions of the acquiring team, is that he's not to play, to avoid injury to protect their acquisition. This is quite standard I believe.

In any event, as some other poster stated, the trade deadline has passed, so if true, which I believe it is, then he very likely is injured. I don't think people took issue with that, but maybe you did ? Don't know why they would.

Isn't that implying he isn't hurt? By saying he may be out because of a trade and not by an actual injury is the same as saying they may be lying to us.

And yes deadline has passed about 3 weeks ago. Trades can still happen but the players cant play if they do.

 

[DRW204]

One thing people often forget is that Winnipeg is on a lot of no-trade lists. That makes a value-for-value trade difficult. Circumstances lined up perfectly for the Laine-Dubois trade. That is rare, though.

Lots of teams would love to have Scheifele, but we would have to be content with prospects and draft picks. And if we're talking about good teams, then the draft picks would be too low.

I think you'll be surprised the amount, and quality of players that have been moved as of late that do not have ntc or nmc.

 

[tbcwpg]

Yes before 19-20 season. So it's been for 3 seasons now. What exactly is your point? What have we accomplished with them at the helm?

OK stripping them all Is a bit harsh. But when players are coming out with lack of desire, motivation etc that's a failure on the entire group. 55 and 26 are often the popular whipping boys, however what exactly is 44 doing in all of this? If he's the beta of the group, while the locker room is saying guys aren't motivated to play, get someone better or stronger in then that can actually make a difference.

He's clearly a younger leader. I don't like calling him a "beta" but if that's the definition you want to use, sure. I think he doesn't have the same influence and impact that Scheifele and Wheeler do. He's leading by example by being the team's best defenceman this year.

It's like he's a manager trainee. Anything he might say is drowned out by Scheifele and Wheeler. Do you think that Ehlers, Stastny and these guys coming out and telling the media that the team is unprepared are not able to say this in the room as well? Morrissey might have an A but he may as well not have one because the team has 2 captains, Wheeler and Hand of the King Scheifele and until they aren't here, it won't change, and once they do leave, it would allow Morrissey to become a more effective leader.

 

[Jets 31]

Absolutely horrible winter that won't end and a Jets season to match, how lucky are we.

 

[SSC4me]

Chevy will 100% feel compelled to pull off a big move in an attempt(perhaps desperate) to save his job. I imagine it will involve Scheiffle, perhaps Wheeler in same or other move. Scheiffle I still think could be elite player in league, but seems checked out here.

Chevy shouldn't be making a decision. It should be the responsibility of a new GM.

 

[jetsv2]

Absolutely horrible winter that won't end and a Jets season to match, how lucky are we.

The season is going to end before winter will this year.

 

[Jets 31]

The season is going to end before winter will this year.

That's guaranteed.

 

[johnnyonthspot]

Well on the bright side at least the Raptors lost tonight

But the leafs won ugghh

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Let me throw some cold water on people

Teams don't necessarily fire the GM and trade their top end players just because they missed the playoffs after 1 season

Just think about that for a minute

 

[LowLefty]

Let me throw some cold water on people

Teams don't necessarily fire the GM and trade their top end players just because they missed the playoffs after 1 season

Just think about that for a minute

If you think this is just about missing the playoffs, then I would agree

 

[ps241]

Let me throw some cold water on people

Teams don't necessarily fire the GM and trade their top end players just because they missed the playoffs after 1 season

Just think about that for a minute

The Calgary Flames 2022 factor Is always a possibility even though they flipped Captain Gio. The fact its not always easy to make big changes in the NHL is also a factor.

I will say though that how this first season of our “contention window” unfolded doesn’t seem to be a team just having an off season. If Chipman and Chevy decide to change a coach and stay the course for the most part then that also carries a risk that could backfire too.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

If you think this is just about missing the playoffs, then I would agree

I don't think that but I am also trying to throw some cold water on people's argument's.
I do think the team is at a crossroads but I also think that it may not go the route some people think it should.

I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I don't think many people do. I do know that I don't like what I see on the ice. Team looks disorganized. Gives up way to man quality chances far to easily and we can't string together solid game after game. I do know the AHL team is the exact opposite of this team. That would suggest its the coach or the players. One coach left and another took over and the team looks even worse to me. That would suggest it is the players.

Let's say that they trade both Schief and Wheeler and the best you can manage is draft picks and prospects. Are we a better team on paper? No. Maybe we are better by subtraction in other area's. We won't know until this team steps on the ice and plays. We could end up in Ottawa territory after they dumped Karlsson and company. Years of bottom dwelling. I kind of trust our scouting and development process though to get us through that but you just don't know.

 

[jetsv2]

I don't think that but I am also trying to throw some cold water on people's argument's.
I do think the team is at a crossroads but I also think that it may not go the route some people think it should.

I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I don't think many people do. I do know that I don't like what I see on the ice. Team looks disorganized. Gives up way to man quality chances far to easily and we can't string together solid game after game. I do know the AHL team is the exact opposite of this team. That would suggest its the coach or the players. One coach left and another took over and the team looks even worse to me. That would suggest it is the players.

Let's say that they trade both Schief and Wheeler and the best you can manage is draft picks and prospects. Are we a better team on paper? No. Maybe we are better by subtraction in other area's. We won't know until this team steps on the ice and plays. We could end up in Ottawa territory after they dumped Karlsson and company. Years of bottom dwelling. I kind of trust our scouting and development process though to get us through that but you just don't know.

Ottawa had almost nothing left after trading Karlsson and Stone. The Jets would start next year with Dubois, Connor, Ehlers, Morrissey and Hellebuyck as their core if they moved those two players. You can also trade Scheifele and Wheeler and use the picks/prospects you get back to aquire other NHL ready players from another team.

 

[snowkiddin]

But the leafs won ugghh

Regular season wins don’t mean so much to me, I’m just waiting for their annual first round collapse.

 

[surixon]

I don't think that but I am also trying to throw some cold water on people's argument's.
I do think the team is at a crossroads but I also think that it may not go the route some people think it should.

I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I don't think many people do. I do know that I don't like what I see on the ice. Team looks disorganized. Gives up way to man quality chances far to easily and we can't string together solid game after game. I do know the AHL team is the exact opposite of this team. That would suggest its the coach or the players. One coach left and another took over and the team looks even worse to me. That would suggest it is the players.

Let's say that they trade both Schief and Wheeler and the best you can manage is draft picks and prospects. Are we a better team on paper? No. Maybe we are better by subtraction in other area's. We won't know until this team steps on the ice and plays. We could end up in Ottawa territory after they dumped Karlsson and company. Years of bottom dwelling. I kind of trust our scouting and development process though to get us through that but you just don't know.

I think you need to get rid of one of the two to send a message and change the coach. You raise a good point about the Moose, completely different cultures and mindsets in the same org. One team busts their asses for everything they get and play as a team. The other has issues with work ethic, accountability and entitlement. So where is the issue, the NHL team has a number of players that work hard consistently like Dubois, JoMo, Ehlers, Conner etc but how much of that is undone by Mark's lazy and uninspired play? How much does the coaching staffs inability to hold certain players accountable impact the room? Gotta think its hard for players to put a lot of trust in the staff when they have different accountability models and allow a couple of players to float around all year and or underperform without repercussions.

I look at a guy like Svech who gets unceremoniously demoted all the time despite playing well. A player that can't get any PP time despite producing when ever put in a spot to produce. He instead sees the coach trot out his son and Sanford on the PP. I wouldn't have much trust in the coach either. Numerous players likely don't feel as if they are being treated fairly by this staff.

I think that it is both a coaching and player issue. We have players who are doing their own thing and not buying in plus we have a coaching staff that is enabling it by not correcting the behavior.

It is why I think Mark needs go and Wheeler if he stays needs to surrender the C. We also need a coaching staff that will come in and be able to get everyone onboard and accountable to each other.

 

[CorgisPer60]

I'm looking forward to the playoffs, if anything just to watch excellent hockey daily. I'm so tired of seeing the Jets right now. They are borderline unwatchable. There had better be some changes this offseason. This is unacceptable. I think KC's comments last night are very telling. There are quite a few passengers right now. f***, when's the last time we saw a quote from Wheeler? Has to be at least a month ago at this point. It's almost always PLD and Morrissey facing post-game scrums.

 

[snowkiddin]

I think you need to get rid of one of the two to send a message and change the coach. You raise a good point about the Moose, completely different cultures and mindsets in the same org. One team busts their asses for everything they get and play as a team. The other has issues with work ethic, accountability and entitlement. So where is the issue, the NHL team has a number of players that work hard consistently like Dubois, JoMo, Ehlers, Conner etc but how much of that is undone by Mark's lazy and uninspired play? How much does the coaching staffs inability to hold certain players accountable impact the room? Gotta think its hard for players to put a lot of trust in the staff when they have different accountability models and allow a couple of players to float around all year and or underperform without repercussions.

I think that it is both a coaching and player issue. We have players who are doing their own thing and not buying in plus we have a coaching staff that is enabling it by not correcting the behavior.

It is why I think Mark needs go and Wheeler if he stays needs to surrender the C. We also need a coaching staff that will come in and be able to get everyone onboard and accountable to each other.

Re: the bolded — 100%. When Dummy Maurice was here, it was obvious he had favourites on the team. It was obvious some players got benefits that others did not. It was obvious he was blinded by his love for gud vets. It was obvious he didn’t trust young players.

Now Maurice has bailed and these issues still seem to remain. So was it actually so obviously Maurice’s fault? Is Lowry just a carbon copy? Or this is a larger organizational thing? I lean towards Lowry being the same, but a lot of the issues we have now festered under Maurice and the organization’s inability to remove him (IMO he should’ve been gone after the Blues series) is part of that. So, while I do believe Maurice is responsible for a lot of this mess, some of it has to fall on the organization (Chevy, and co.) for enabling it for so long.

 

[raideralex99]

Chevy shouldn't be making a decision. It should be the responsibility of a new GM.

Maybe Chevy does not have full control ... Chipman has the final word?

 

[surixon]

Re: the bolded — 100%. When Dummy Maurice was here, it was obvious he had favourites on the team. It was obvious some players got benefits that others did not. It was obvious he was blinded by his love for gud vets. It was obvious he didn’t trust young players.

Now Maurice has bailed and these issues still seem to remain. So was it actually so obviously Maurice’s fault? Is Lowry just a carbon copy? Or this is a larger organizational thing? I lean towards Lowry being the same, but a lot of the issues we have now festered under Maurice and the organization’s inability to remove him (IMO he should’ve been gone after the Blues series) is part of that. So, while I do believe Maurice is responsible for a lot of this mess, some of it has to fall on the organization (Chevy, and co.) for enabling it for so long.

At this point it is an entire org problem. Management should have seen the stagnation and complacency that was happening and stepped in. Now we have a bunch of ingrained traits in some players and it is going to be a hell of a mess to correct. It shouldn't have taken a number of the young guys finally becoming pissed off and rebelling for this to have been made apparent to management.

I get loyalty but results, performance and attitude need to trump that principle.

 

[Al Camino]

Hyothesis: SportsNet has let us (Jets fans) down.

Results and Discussion: Consider Millen specifically. Speaking as a Jets fan, I get the feeling (and @bustamente said it) its plain that Millen doesn't care about the team, they've no skin in the fate of the team, there's very little interest. His colour input is like that of a lopsided dissection by a know-it-all alcoholic uncle. That's fine, but at least try a little, yes? - This is the CDN call for the CDN market. Not asking them to be homers, just try not to cheerlead for the opposition so much.

Concluding remarks: Once in a long while SN cover a few games here and there, but I guess they don't want to be there. I like H. Singh - > he's honestly into hockey, not jaded, and calls a good game with good knowledge but defers to guys like Millen. Overall SN's colour people are really the bottom of the barrel.

Rant off//

SN is going through the motions via contractual obligation.

I still think Kevin Sawyer might be the worst colour commentator I’ve ever heard.

 

[Al Camino]

Chevy shouldn't be making a decision. It should be the responsibility of a new GM.

Probably Zinger. Book it. Now way Chipman fires a guy from the Moose days

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Ottawa had almost nothing left after trading Karlsson and Stone. The Jets would start next year with Dubois, Connor, Ehlers, Morrissey and Hellebuyck as their core if they moved those two players. You can also trade Scheifele and Wheeler and use the picks/prospects you get back to aquire other NHL ready players from another team.

After Ottawa decided to move on from Karlsson it started an exodus

The 1st season they had Stone,Duchene,Chabot,Dzingel,Tierney and Anderson in net. I am assuming they thought they were going to be fine and they weren't. They eventually kept trading players and I don't think they are anywhere near close at getting out of that hole

 

[surixon]

On a different tangent this happening may just be the best thing to happen to this org. It is forcing Mark to take a real hard look at his hockey opps department. It was pretty smooth sailing for this org the first 7 or so years, full building and energized crowd. We also made hay with our first round picks which pushed the team real close in 18. Usually teams dont hit on that many picks in the range the team drafted. Not rebuilding unexpectedly lead to a powerhouse team. I think the org took the NHL too lightly as things worked out for them and as such they could engage in their loyalty culture. They also took it for granted that things would juat work itself out if they stayed loyal and patient. It didn't lead to improved play but instead complacency and disfunction.

Perhaps now they know that the NHl is a very cut throat league where the windows are short and the margin for error low. I hope that the org has learned that things need to be addressed immediately and hard decisions always need to be made and you don't have time to allow for things to work out.

 

[raideralex99]

People calling for firing the GM, blowing up the team need to step back for a minute and look at the recent history.
Brodreau's record with the Canucks 29-13-8 since taking over with basically the same team.
Woodcroft's record with the Oilers 21-8-3 since taking over with basically the same team.
Gallant first year with the Rangers 49-21-6 after taking over a 27-23-6 team.
Look at Sutter and Gaudreau ... fans wanted Gaudreau traded after last year season ... different story this year right?
Loyalty is what killed the Jets ... Maurice was kept too long and this is what he created ... a divided room.
Should Chevy be fired for keeping Maurice too long?
Maybe ... but the big question is was Chipman against firing Maurice?