Post-Game Talk: B2B spankings, Jets lose 7-4

[WolfHouse]

After Ottawa decided to move on from Karlsson it started an exodus

The 1st season they had Stone,Duchene,Chabot,Dzingel,Tierney and Anderson in net. I am assuming they thought they were going to be fine and they weren't. They eventually kept trading players and I don't think they are anywhere near close at getting out of that hole

The difference is that Carlson and Stone were their key guys and their future.... not locker room cancers.

Keeping Scheif and Wheeler could just as potentially cause an exodus if Connor, PLD, etc get frustrated - you could see last game that PLD was kind of wondering what to do with his linemates - after having clear chemistry with Connor and Svech all season...

It is a tricky offseason. IF Scheif stays or if major coaching changes are not made, maybe PLD takes a bridge instead of 8 years... who knows.

 

[GaryPoppins]

None of our supposed leaders are impressive to say the least. What have we accomplished with any of them wearing a letter?
I don't hear any accountability or action from any of the 3 atleast publicly. Kc and Ehlers have been far more upfront of this team's, or individual play than those 3. Can add dubois too.

KC has done it exactly once…Morrissey has been the guy facing the music post-game while 55 and 26 hide and sulk.

 

[WolfHouse]

On a different tangent this happening may just be the best thing to happen to this org. It is forcing Mark to take a real hard look at his hockey opps department. It was pretty smooth sailing for this org the first 7 or so years, full building and energized crowd. We also made hay with our first round picks which pushed the team real close in 18. Usually teams dont hit on that many picks in the range the team drafted. Not rebuilding unexpectedly lead to a powerhouse team. I think the org took the NHL too lightly as things worked out for them and as such they could engage in their loyalty culture. They also took it for granted that things would juat work itself out if they stayed loyal and patient. It didn't lead to improved play but instead complacency and disfunction.

Perhaps now they know that the NHl is a very cut throat league where the windows are short and the margin for error low. I hope that the org has learned that things need to be addressed immediately and hard decisions always need to be made and you don't have time to allow for things to work out.

Umm, actually no - a long playoff run and Stanley cup would have been the best thing to happen to this org.

 

[DRW204]

People calling for firing the GM, blowing up the team need to step back for a minute and look at the recent history.
Brodreau's record with the Canucks 29-13-8 since taking over with basically the same team.
Woodcroft's record with the Oilers 21-8-3 since taking over with basically the same team.
Gallant first year with the Rangers 49-21-6 after taking over a 27-23-6 team.
Look at Sutter and Gaudreau ... fans wanted Gaudreau traded after last year season ... different story this year right?
Loyalty is what killed the Jets ... Maurice was kept too long and this is what he created ... a divided room.
Should Chevy be fired for keeping Maurice too long?
Maybe ... but the big question is was Chipman against firing Maurice?

The Jets job is appealing. You got talent on this team, I mean you should after so many high picks. And then you have Helle who's usually tops in the league. Problem is, who wants to deal with a meddling owner? Or a gm that is risk averse and takes years to make improvements. The meddling owner part, if true, is the most concerning, especially if he's enabling 55 and 26.

 

[ThinIce61]

Any chance Mark Morrison is the Jets HC next season?

Not necessarily what I want to see as I'll mention when I get around to posting my magnum opus in the I'm the new GM thread or whatever it's called.

As much as I want to see a new coach with some innovative ideas I think that the perceived problems with this team need to be addressed by a veteran HC who is known not to stand for any bullshit. Whether we could land one of those coaches here is another story but I think a younger coach gets chewed up by the group that controls the room and wouldn't Chevy's(if he's still here) or Chipman's ear to be able to deal with it the way it needs to be dealt with.

Tortorella, Babcock, Julien, Roy(maybe as GM), Quenneville , all scare me for various reasons but might be what this team needs. If nothing else they would all come in and put proper systems in place that the team would have to adhere to or suffer the consequences.


Tortorella would have to be out if we intend on being able to sign PLD long term. Announce Torts as the new coach and the next press conference, possibly the same day is to announce that PLD has said he wants to be traded and will never sign here.

 

[DRW204]

KC has done it exactly once…Morrissey has been the guy facing the music post-game while 55 and 26 hide and sulk.

And kc in his one segment says than any of the other 3. Id hope 44/55/26 face the music more often than our other players, they're captains

 

[surixon]

People calling for firing the GM, blowing up the team need to step back for a minute and look at the recent history.
Brodreau's record with the Canucks 29-13-8 since taking over with basically the same team.
Woodcroft's record with the Oilers 21-8-3 since taking over with basically the same team.
Gallant first year with the Rangers 49-21-6 after taking over a 27-23-6 team.
Look at Sutter and Gaudreau ... fans wanted Gaudreau traded after last year season ... different story this year right?
Loyalty is what killed the Jets ... Maurice was kept too long and this is what he created ... a divided room.
Should Chevy be fired for keeping Maurice too long?
Maybe ... but the big question is was Chipman against firing Maurice?

The problem is the Jets did change the coach and the results are much worse under the new guy. So that should give everyone some pause that juat changing the coaching again will magically fix everything.

 

[ps241]

I don't think that but I am also trying to throw some cold water on people's argument's.
I do think the team is at a crossroads but I also think that it may not go the route some people think it should.

I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I don't think many people do. I do know that I don't like what I see on the ice. Team looks disorganized. Gives up way to man quality chances far to easily and we can't string together solid game after game. I do know the AHL team is the exact opposite of this team. That would suggest its the coach or the players. One coach left and another took over and the team looks even worse to me. That would suggest it is the players.

Let's say that they trade both Schief and Wheeler and the best you can manage is draft picks and prospects. Are we a better team on paper? No. Maybe we are better by subtraction in other area's. We won't know until this team steps on the ice and plays. We could end up in Ottawa territory after they dumped Karlsson and company. Years of bottom dwelling. I kind of trust our scouting and development process though to get us through that but you just don't know.

Joe what you are describing is probably more of a rebuild and I don’t see that happening at this point either. The Ottawa or Buffalo model will not fly with Chipman at this point in my opinion. To me it doesn’t make sense when you have a younger emerging core of players with talent like (PLD , Connor, Ehlers, Morrissey, and Perfetti). I could see them moving on from 55 but I don’t think Wheeler goes unless he asks. My speculation is on the side but I would say they change the coaches (not just head coach) and 55 gets moved this off season.

The wild card is Helle and what his wishes are.

I reserve the right to be 100% wrong about my guess.

 

[Ducky10]

Honestly the lack of accountability seems more like an organizational flaw and it feels too easy pointing the finger at the coaches. That isn't meant to excuse the coaches either, Maurice deserves a ton of blame. I hope that it hasn't bled so far down that it's made players we know can be great like Scheifele uncoachable.

As much as I gripe on individual players I've come to think a lot of problems are a symptom of a problem further up the chain.

Do you mean managements failure to hold Maurice and other members of the coaching staff accountable as being the problem? Or are you suggesting management has played some kind of direct role when it comes to holding players accountable?
Considering this teams mediocre results (apart from one season), I guess it could be interpreted that peoples jobs aren’t tied to success and that has a trickle down effect. Claude Noel seems to be about the only one held to account for the pitiful results of the 2.0 Jets.

 

[WolfHouse]

The problem is the Jets did change the coach and the results are much worse under the new guy. So that should give everyone some pause that juat changing the coaching again will magically fix everything.

To be fair to Lowry, no other coach has retired instead of been fired - and I think it did affect 55 and 26 a lot that their guy gave up on them... you could see glimpses of Lowry trying to change the system but he was in over his head.

Claude Julien would change this team no doubt - we'd be in for boring hockey but likely win a fair bit more with the same roster.

 

[ps241]

The problem is the Jets did change the coach and the results are much worse under the new guy. So that should give everyone some pause that juat changing the coaching again will magically fix everything.

It’s actually a very important point and I am hoping its not lost on Chevy or Chipman. The team did not respond to a coaching change period…….full stop. I sense the leaders didn’t want Maurice gone since he was their boy so none of that dead cat bounce where an unpopular coach needed to go was realized. One could make the argument that the new coach didn’t really change much systems wise but we saw Minnesota and St Louis thrive when they promoted from within.

I don’t like the chances of this leadership group magically changing their ways under a new coach. My opinion doesn’t matter but the key is do you think Chevy trusts them to buy in because his job depends on this ship turning around next season.

 

[WolfHouse]

Do you mean managements failure to hold Maurice and other members of the coaching staff accountable as being the problem? Or are you suggesting management has played some kind of direct role when it comes to holding players accountable?
Considering this teams mediocre results (apart from one season), I guess it could be interpreted that peoples jobs aren’t tied to success and that has a trickle down effect. Claude Noel seems to be about the only one held to account for the pitiful results of the 2.0 Jets.

I think TNSE knows the challenges of attracting talent to Winnipeg and tried the loyalty angle - worked for a while but now its drifted into country club...

 

[blues10]

Do you mean managements failure to hold Maurice and other members of the coaching staff accountable as being the problem? Or are you suggesting management has played some kind of direct role when it comes to holding players accountable?
Considering this teams mediocre results (apart from one season), I guess it could be interpreted that peoples jobs aren’t tied to success and that has a trickle down effect. Claude Noel seems to be about the only one held to account for the pitiful results of the 2.0 Jets.

Assistant Coach Perry Pearn was also given the axe when Noel got canned. Other than that it appears that you get to coach here until you decide to seek employment elsehwere or simply walk away from the game for awhile like Maurice.

The NHL is a cut throat winner takes all professional league. After 11 years it is starting to look more and more that the "family" philosophy that TNSE has been employing does not result in a hockey club who can compete for the Stanley Cup.

 

[surixon]

To be fair to Lowry, no other coach has retired instead of been fired - and I think it did affect 55 and 26 a lot that their guy gave up on them... you could see glimpses of Lowry trying to change the system but he was in over his head.

Claude Julien would change this team no doubt - we'd be in for boring hockey but likely win a fair bit more with the same roster.

I don't think the org can afford boring hockey after the product that was on the ice the last few years. They tried boring low event hockey and it's been a disaster. Sure Julien would likely do it better but if you are selling your skill as the Jets are in their season ticket push then they should bring I a coach that will let that talent flourish.

The Jets need to get the fans excited again and I don't believe a low event guy will cut it. Also why is everyone so enamored with Julien? He hasn't accomplished anything of note since winning his cup ages ago. He wasn't good at a in Montreal. I think he's quite overrated as a coach.

 

[surixon]

It’s actually a very important point and I am hoping its not lost on Chevy or Chipman. The team did not respond to a coaching change period…….full stop. I sense the leaders didn’t want Maurice gone since he was their boy so none of that dead cat bounce where an unpopular coach needed to go was realized. One could make the argument that the new coach didn’t really change much systems wise but we saw Minnesota and St Louis thrive when they promoted from within.

I don’t like the chances of this leadership group magically changing their ways under a new coach. My opinion doesn’t matter but the key is do you think Chevy trusts them to buy in because his job depends on this ship turning around next season.

Yup you could clearly see it with Wheeler. He flat our felt betrayed. I don't know what to make of Mark, his game wasn't engaged before and it wasn't engaged after. He just seems to be off in his own world this year. The org needs to figure out if he actually wants to be here. He is the one guy I have a hard time believing a coaching change will have the desired effect.

 

[surixon]

I think TNSE knows the challenges of attracting talent to Winnipeg and tried the loyalty angle - worked for a while but now its drifted into country club...

There should be some happy medium. You can be loyal to players and people to some extent but when the results start to not be there you need to be able move make changes.

If you like the person reassign them in the org.

 

[ps241]

Yup you could clearly see it with Wheeler. He flat our felt betrayed. I don't know what to make of Mark, his game wasn't engaged before and it wasn't engaged after. He just seems to be off in his own world this year. The org needs to figure out if he actually wants to be here. He is the one guy I have a hard time believing a coaching change will have the desired effect.

One question I ask myself is does Blake see it with Mark? This season things feel very different with Scheif and everyone from the talking heads to the casual fan can see something is wrong. Blake has lots of faults but you can’t say he doesn’t try hard and with Mark mailing it in way too often I wonder how that is playing out with 26?

 

[WolfHouse]

I don't think the org can afford boring hockey after the product that was on the ice the last few years. They tried boring low event hockey and it's been a disaster. Sure Julien would likely do it better but if you are selling your skill as the Jets are in their season ticket push then they should bring I a coach that will let that talent flourish.

The Jets need to get the fans excited again and I don't believe a low event guy will cut it. Also why is everyone so enamored with Julien? He hasn't accomplished anything of note since winning his cup ages ago. He wasn't good at a in Montreal. I think he's quite overrated as a coach.

When did we ever try boring low event hockey? This team has played man coverage D since day one and NEVER had a neutral zone system... we have always engaged the D to rush...

As for Julien, the Cdns were hot to start that season and went on a mini-losing streak - nothing compared to the ones we have seen here - and Julien was canned... I think with Helle that Julien's system would work well.

 

[WolfHouse]

There should be some happy medium. You can be loyal to players and people to some extent but when the results start to not be there you need to be able move make changes.

If you like the person reassign them in the org.

You don't think Paul Maurice willl have a role in TNSE next season?

 

[surixon]

One question I ask myself is does Blake see it with Mark? This season things feel very different with Scheif and everyone from the talking heads to the casual fan can see something is wrong. Blake has lots of faults but you can’t say he doesn’t try hard and with Mark mailing it in way too often I wonder how that is playing out with 26?

Hard to say, he keeps praising mark non stop infront of the media so maybe he has blinders on with regards to Scheifele and maybe that is one of the things causing friction in the room.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

He was very clearly injured.

And the hit that caused the injury didn't appear to be that hard a blow.

One has to wonder if he's damaged goods since his 2018 injury , & explain why he rarely takes on F1 responsibilities in the defensive end. Scheifele has been a disappointment since the Conference Finals that same year.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Hard to say, he keeps praising mark non stop infront of the media so maybe he has blinders on with regards to Scheifele and maybe that is one of the things causing friction in the room.

An interview Wheeler made a few years back stuck with me. To paraphrase he praised the Jets coaching staff for allowing him to played his game, a skilled rather than a heavy game. He pointed out that the reason Boston traded him was their insistence to ask him to play a role he didn't want.

God this team misses Buff.

 

[None]

Do you mean managements failure to hold Maurice and other members of the coaching staff accountable as being the problem? Or are you suggesting management has played some kind of direct role when it comes to holding players accountable?
Considering this teams mediocre results (apart from one season), I guess it could be interpreted that peoples jobs aren’t tied to success and that has a trickle down effect. Claude Noel seems to be about the only one held to account for the pitiful results of the 2.0 Jets.

Yeah, that's basically what I was implying. A culture that lacks accountability that worked its way downwards. Ownership hasn't held management accountable, management hasn't held coaches accountable, and coaches haven't held players accountable or at best they're selective.

There's too much comfort that nobody with the ability to effect change wanted to rock the boat until it came to a head with Maurice resigning I think. And to me Maurice's resignation is just another sign of that lack of accountability.

Claude Noel is kind of an interesting situation because the players basically mutinied him.

 

[WolfHouse]

An interview Wheeler made a few years back stuck with me. To paraphrase he praised the Jets coaching staff for allowing him to played his game, a skilled rather than a heavy game. He pointed out that the reason Boston traded him was their insistence to ask him to play a role he didn't want.

God this team misses Buff.

We are so desperate for Stanley to become the next Buff...

The post game interviews are depressing... 'we needed to put Stanley back in because of consistency and speed?' What player is he talking about?

 

[WolfHouse]

Yeah, that's basically what I was implying. A culture that lacks accountability that worked its way downwards. Ownership hasn't held management accountable, management hasn't held coaches accountable, and coaches haven't held players accountable or at best they're selective.

There's too much comfort that nobody with the ability to effect change wanted to rock the boat until it came to a head with Maurice resigning I think. And to me Maurice's resignation is just another sign of that lack of accountability.

Claude Noel is kind of an interesting situation because the players basically mutinied him.

I think Maurice recognized that and got Wheeler, Buff, Scheif on his side first and foremost - look at the minutes played and you'll see who was in Pomo's club - not a bad strategy