Post-Game Talk: B2B Jets lose 4-1

[Ducky10]

Scheifele is turning into a crybaby whiner to the refs.

They are probably getting sick of his bull****

 

[Ducky10]

Our star players Laine, Wheeler, Schief Ehlers and Connor all need to be better. When they don’t register a point the team deserves to lose.

I’m not sure about deserving to lose, but if those guys don’t score and Helle plays average or below, they will lose more times than not.

 

[Ducky10]

Hellebuyck did not cost the Jets the game today but he did on the prior game on Friday against St Louis.

He is way too inconsistent this season and his game is awful lately.

He let in 7 goals in the 2 games against St Louis and that is not going to cut it.

Inconsistent this season?

wtf? You can’t be serious? He’s played poorly of late, otherwise he’s been outstanding.

 

[Jets 31]

Ya I’d say missing your top player is worse than missing three bottom 6 players.

Tarasenko is a big loss but having 5 starting players out , even though they aren't top 6 except for Buff , puts way more pressure on the depth of a team than 1 guy . Frenchie and Copp are 2 thirds of our checking line with Lowry that we desperately need considering our defense and the guys replacing them are borderline NHLers . Little out hurts our PK big time , same with Copp and yes i include Buff because as of right now we don't have his contract off the books . Buff not playing has forced Poolman and Sbisa to play too high in the defense pairings , Poolman is not a #1 pairing defenseman and Sbisa isn't a 2nd pairing . I would say if you put all those players back in the lineup and Laine was the only guy missing for example , we would not be hurting near as bad as we are right now .

 

[Easternbull]

Try and find some positives, Pionk was the jets best player in these two games against the best team in the NHL.

When we get healthy things will turna around we are just missing to many quality players and do not have enough AHL depth.

Scheiffele has always acted like a diva IMHO, but last game was embarrasing.

Trade rosie + picks for Ristolainen.

 

[Duke749]

Basically the Blues dominated us, in both games, but especially the second game.

This is completely wrong. We get average tending in the first game and we win easily. The second game wasn’t much different either. I have no clue what you’re watching or how someone comes to that conclusion.

 

[ps241]

Agree -
The question is, will our team (best players) play a D style game knowing that is likely the only way we can compete - especially against teams as good as the Blues. Is it coaching or one dimensional players?
What do you do? Make a few high profile moves or fire the coach (or both)?

We will win a few based on pure offensive domination - but not against this level of competition.

We need to rebuild the D core and think wisely about our next moves in the top 6. We did pretty well with this forward group (for the most part) 2 seasons ago so I don’t think we want to panic.

This season we do not have the horses on the Blue line full stop. IF IF IF (major long shot if) Buff were to come back healthy and rested and we get Niku playing well and he can pull a Pionk lite then by gosh by golly this D core could look good as soon as late March but I give that a 10% probability. For my money we wait and see but really focus on this summer to retool our D core if the Hail Mary doesn’t hit this spring.

Part of the reason I wanted Mark Stone here so badly is he would have been “the” major ice tilter zone entry exit master that would have reshaped our top 6 completely. That is the single type of asset that can change a team (think ROR and the Blues). Our fans are maybe too focused on the centre position and not focused enough on the Ice tilting factor. We need one more possession monster in our top 6 then we can roll Ehlers off one line and a fill in the blanks on the other line. My hopes are that Laine grows into that by the time he is 23.

IF we are going to expend assets on a 2nd line centre (or forward) at some point then let’s get a possession beast that can carry anyone. Finishing skills are less important since we have those in spades already. I do not have a name in mind but I will put some thought to it.

We have to overcome the suboptimal defensive play of Connor (is there a worse star in the league at getting out of the zone), Scheifele, and eventually an aging of Wheeler etc. the thing is though we don’t want to try to make a hunting dog of a grey hound. Add one key possession driving asset and I think we have a really dynamic top 6. We gave it our best shot on Stone but he had other plans in mind, however, at least we were on the right track.

We would be wise to keep the Copp Lowry pair together on their next contracts too.

 

[jepjepjoo]

Inconsistent this season?

wtf? You can’t be serious? He’s played poorly of late, otherwise he’s been outstanding.

While I think Helleybuck has been the least of their problems this season, this is the definition of inconsistency:

He’s played poorly of late, otherwise he’s been outstanding.

 

[Ggg99]

Surprising post

Onto reality...

I think the Jets played a really good series. We had some bad bounces, some bad calls against. We could have gotten 3 or 4 points out of this if a couple things that went wrong went right

Setting a record for "bad bounces" this year. Our Jets getting all of those...

 

[ps241]

While I think Helleybuck has been the least of their problems this season, this is the definition of inconsistency:

This post is more directed at the OP not you.

Very few goalies play at a .930 clip all season. Maybe one in the NHL most seasons if they have over 65 starts. Pretty much every goalie has (variance) ups and downs within the season somthe idea of a consistent goalie over a large sample size is a bit of a myth.

If the OP was expecting .930 type consistency all season then that is not really connected to reality. Currently after a tougher stretch of 8 games Hellebuyck has dropped from Vezina level to a .923 save % which is very good still considering the NHL scoring levels again this season, his heavy usage, and the porous leaky team he plays on.

What the Op night want to be more concerned about Bros consistently bad .888 save % over his 10 games this season so far. That is what is killing our team save %.

 

[hn777]

On the discipline of the leaders (Wheeler, Scheifele) including shift length:

I have seen some posters mention Wheeler's "long shifts". It is becoming a myth.

Actually, Wheeler's average shift length is perfectly reasonable. According to Fox Sports stats it is 0:47 min this regular season, down from 0:51 last regular season. Note, this is - I believe - for all situations (not sure where to look up purely 5v5 without having to calculate it myself), but comparable PP1 forwards Scheifele, Laine, Connor all have shift lengths between 0:51 and 0:54 (Scheifele), while lesser played Jets forwards are between 0:43 and 0:47.

Fun (or not so fun!) fact:
Buff lead all NHL skaters in average shift length last regular season with 1:02 min.

Also, based on interviews, I think Wheeler's attitude has changed for the better.

I think the Captain has looked in the mirror and done some self reflection. IMHO, it's time for the Assistant Captain (our 1C) to do the same (or maybe the issue is, he is looking too much in the mirror)!

 

[hn777]

Why are people so hard on Scheifele? Didn’t see him do anything too bad, except that one play in OT last game. Is there a specific play they are referring to? Or is it the general grumpiness after a loss?

IMO, he is not showing the best attitude for a leader (floating/lazy backchecking, complaining to the refs, long shift lengths and slow changes while coming to the bench).

 

[jepjepjoo]

On the discipline of the leaders (Wheeler, Scheifele) including shift length:

I have seen some posters mention Wheeler's "long shifts". It is becoming a myth.

Actually, Wheeler's average shift length is perfectly reasonable. According to Fox Sports stats it is 0:47 min this regular season, down from 0:51 last regular season. Note, this is - I believe - for all situations (not sure where to look up purely 5v5 without having to calculate it myself), but comparable PP1 forwards Scheifele, Laine, Connor all have shift lengths between 0:51 and 0:54 (Scheifele), while lesser played Jets forwards are between 0:43 and 0:47.

Fun (or not so fun!) fact:
Buff lead all NHL skaters in average shift length last regular season with 1:02 min.

Also, based on interviews, I think Wheeler's attitude has changed for the better.

I think the Captain has looked in the mirror and done some self reflection. IMHO, it's time for the Assistant Captain (our 1C) to do the same (or maybe the issue is, he is looking too much in the mirror)!

Average shift length doesn't really tell you much...

Player 1	Player 2
0:40	0:25
0:10	0:55
1:40	0:50
0:20	0:45
1:20	0:55
0:40	0:40
0:40	0:35
0:30	0:55
avg 0:45	avg 0:45

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Neither does the individual shift length without knowing the context. Did player 1 stay out for 1:40 because they were hemmed in their own zone for almost the entire shift or did he have an opportunity to change at 0:55, but still went for offense and lost possession and got hemmed in again? Did the coach put that player out there for the offensive faceoff even when he had stayed out for 0:40 already?

 

[jepjepjoo]

This is completely wrong. We get average tending in the first game and we win easily. The second game wasn’t much different either. I have no clue what you’re watching or how someone comes to that conclusion.

1st game expected goals

Jets 2.81 - Blues 3.71

2nd game expected goals

Blues 4.70 - Jets 2.55

This game was the 5th worst xGF% game for the Jets this season.

		xGF%
Blues 4	Jets 1	35.15%	L
Stars 5	Jets 3	35.01%	L
Red Wings 5	Jets 2	32.66%	L
Penguins 1	Jets 4	31.59%	W
Sharks 2	Jets 3	22.36%	W

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[hn777]

Average shift length doesn't really tell you much...

Player 1	Player 2
0:40	0:25
0:10	0:55
1:40	0:50
0:20	0:45
1:20	0:55
0:40	0:40
0:40	0:35
0:30	0:55
avg 0:45	avg 0:45

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Neither does the individual shift length without knowing the context. Did player 1 stay out for 1:40 because they were hemmed in their own zone for almost the entire shift or did he have an opportunity to change at 0:55, but still went for offense and lost possession and got hemmed in again?

So, how would you evaluate whether Wheeler, Scheifele or any other player takes too long shifts?

 

[Eyeseeing]

I saw 2 competitive games this weekend.
Could have gone either way.
On to the next one.

 

[Ducky10]

While I think Helleybuck has been the least of their problems this season, this is the definition of inconsistency:

Then by that definition, you can pretty much throw that label on every player in the league.

It’s absurd to call .923 over 32 games inconsistent when evaluating a goaltender in hockey.

 

[Zippity]

On the discipline of the leaders (Wheeler, Scheifele) including shift length:

I have seen some posters mention Wheeler's "long shifts". It is becoming a myth.

Actually, Wheeler's average shift length is perfectly reasonable. According to Fox Sports stats it is 0:47 min this regular season, down from 0:51 last regular season. Note, this is - I believe - for all situations (not sure where to look up purely 5v5 without having to calculate it myself), but comparable PP1 forwards Scheifele, Laine, Connor all have shift lengths between 0:51 and 0:54 (Scheifele), while lesser played Jets forwards are between 0:43 and 0:47.

Fun (or not so fun!) fact:
Buff lead all NHL skaters in average shift length last regular season with 1:02 min.

Also, based on interviews, I think Wheeler's attitude has changed for the better.

I think the Captain has looked in the mirror and done some self reflection. IMHO, it's time for the Assistant Captain (our 1C) to do the same (or maybe the issue is, he is looking too much in the mirror)!

Wheelers attitude is whining about not being in the hall of fame yet. Shiefele has taken over from Laine from last year for being lazy

 

[tbcwpg]

Wheelers attitude is whining about not being in the hall of fame yet. Shiefele has taken over from Laine from last year for being lazy

I can't wait until the next win and the PGTs become a but more reasonable.

 

[folix]

It was a sloppy change with apples basically crawling off the ice - how is that a coaching issue? He should have been benched after that effort.
Those stretch passes only work on a bad change and this was a bad change.
How many of those stretched didn't work because the change was clean and we didn't get caught with one guy back.

When they try it 4x you know they have seen something they can exploit. Not doing something about it before they score is simply not good enough.

If they had talked to the players before hand then especially with a player like Appleton you can bench for a bit. This is not the first time however we get caught on this type of play. I've seen other teams not score off of it bit catch us on a whole sale line change.

The whole sale line change is done more for match up reasons but its risky as hell. They are being told most likely to come to the bench all at once, so yeah its coaching. I'm not condemning the game plan yesterday, I thought they played well. When I see mistakes plague us like that its maddening.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

For the "I told you so" crowd, happy you feel vindicated, but you shouldn't.

Anyone with an inkling of hockey insight, knew back in October that for this team to have any success this season, we would need above average goaltending.

Listening to Westwood this morning makes me want to gag. Acting all righteous, acting as though his internal wisdom of advanced analytics has him a step above the rest. Wow, a team with several players playing roles above their capabilities needs goaltending to achieve success, who da thunk?

 

[Channelcat]

I saw 2 competitive games this weekend.
Could have gone either way.
On to the next one.

Yes, I didn't mind these last 2, but they have still lost 5 of last 6.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Yes, I didn't mind these last 2, but they have still lost 5 of last 6.

I didn’t like the Carolina or Montreal games for sure.

 

[Howard Chuck]

The PP is shocking - we have the horses to get it done on the PP -actually, it's looked a little better lately regardless of the numbers - they are getting shots and better possession time.

The PK is no surprise IMO - we don't have the big bodies on the back end that you need to break up board battles or front net congestion.
In front, we are missing pcs like Tanev and more recently, Lit's and Copp. All 3 are good PK players that were replaced with . . .

I wanted to bring up the PP, so might as well jump off from this post....

The PP looked a little better last night, some good movement etc, BUT! Man, those passes from Pionk to Laine are painfully slow. By the time the puck gets to Laine, a forward is kneeling in front of Laine and Binnington is in position. I said it in the GDT as well, those passes are almost comically slow. That will never work in a million years.

How hard is it to simply spend some time working on something like that. It takes what? An hour to work out where the pass should be and how hard it can be? I don't understand why it takes months to move this team's PP.

 

[cbcwpg]

Didn't expect to win either game against the Blues... and I wasn't disappointed. They are a much better team than the Jets.