Proposal: B. Tkachuk for Kyrou.

[stempniaksen]

Kyrou isn't the main piece I'd want back in any hypothetical Tkachuk trade (which isn't happening for the next year or two at the very least). No collection of nickels and dimes makes Ottawa downgrading from Tkachuk to Kyrou worthwhile for a team trying to get better in the short term.

 

[jfhabs]

It's Thomas not Kyrou if Brady is being traded.

Not how it works if Brady is truly asking out... unless Thomas is asking out too

 

[Golden_Jet]

No a top 10 1c who gets above ppg have way more value then under ppg power forwards. Anyone who argues otherwise is just not knowledgeable. Kyrou is comparable to brady. Brady is not comparable to thomas who plays the 200ft game. Brady is career minus 63.

Pot meet kettle

That’s funny, thanks for the entertainment.

 

[StlBill]

Not how it works if Brady is truly asking out... unless Thomas is asking out too

Robert and Brady are close friends and want to play together.

 

[LTIR]

Robert and Brady are close friends and want to play together.

They can join a rec league together in summer then

I would make Draisaitl available for Tkachuk+ in the offseason based on how contract negotiations go with him.

 

[Reality Czech]

1. Brady is not unhappy.
2. Kyrou would return a Batherson, not a Tkachuk

It's always fun when someone responds to a bad trade proposal with an equally bad one.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It's always fun when someone responds to a bad trade proposal with an equally bad one.

Batherson and Kyrou have almost identical stats this year, except Kyrou makes 3+ million more.

 

[Reality Czech]

Batherson and Kyrou have almost identical stats this year, except Kyrou makes 3+ million more.

Kyrou and Tkachuk have very similar stats as well. 3 points difference

 

[Golden_Jet]

Kyrou and Tkachuk have very similar stats as well. 3 points difference

Ya not even close to comparable players,

whereas Batherson and Kyrou are similar players, just Kyrou costs 3+ million more.

 

[Reality Czech]

Ya not even close to comparable players,

whereas Batherson and Kyrou are similar players, just Kyrou costs 3+ million more.

I agree Tkachuk is worth more than Kyrou but I've learned a lot about Sens fans reading this thread.

 

[stl76]

Ya not even close to comparable players,

whereas Batherson and Kyrou are similar players, just Kyrou costs 3+ million more.

 

[bert]

Anything is possible, but its is unlikely Ottawa receives full value. Ottawa would want 1st + Kyrou + Dvorsky/Neighbours + Lindstein/Stenburg/Snuggerud for Brady + other players like Boucher + cap dump... but they might need to settle on 1st + Kryou + Lindstein/Stenburg/Snuggerud.

When the team has 3 more years of control you dont trade for less than full value. He isnt an upcoming UFA he is a 24 year old captain. He isnt going anywhere anyway.

You are right Batherson can play with a physical edge, and makes way less. Your own fanbase is booing this player out of town you own fans are trying to get rid of him and you act like he's some sort of super star.

You want an equivalent situation. The rumor boys say Thomas wants out and sens fans are like yeah he definitely wants to be traded. We will give you Batherson for him. Then be upset when you guys dont want to do it.

 

[Celtic Note]

What about something like: Kyrou, Hofer, Stennberg (or other forward prospect not named Neighbours or Dvorsky), 1st (whichever pick we get from trading Buchnevich), and a 2nd?

Brady is a unicorn but the offensive difference between him and Kyrou is not that much. Last 3 years: Kyrou = 195 pts, Brady = 200 pts. The cap hits are the same so that makes the cap a non-issue. Brady is a year younger but his contract is up when he'll be 28 so he's going to get another massive payday, while Kyrou is locked in until he's 32 so his current contract will take him all the way through his prime.

Ottawa gets their goalie of the future, 2 - 1sts worth of value, and a mid-early 2nd for losing the intangibles Tkachuk provides but without losing much offensive output.

If Brady gets moved (big IF I know), then I think this is probably the most any team would be willing to give up.

Why are you trying to ruin the Blues in one trade?

 

[Celtic Note]

I feel like there are a few posters on both sides trying their best to make bad posts in hope of making their respective fan bases look bad by association.

 

[Blanick]

Ok I am going to preface this by saying there is nothing wrong with Sens fans not wanting Kyrou as a piece back for Tkachuk. That does not change the fact that in a vacuum they are a very close comparable. Nearly identical points per game, both leave a something to be desired on the defensive side of things. There are literally 3 things that give Tkachuk a slight edge and 2 or them are utter nonsense. Tkachuk plays with more of an edge and fire that Kyrou lacks and can be motivating for his team, that is legit. The other two things are his draft position and his name, neither of which should effect his value at this point.

Again there is nothing wrong with the Sens saying no thanks to a player their not interested in but in a vacuum Kyrou plus a small add is all Tkachuk is worth at this point.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Ok I am going to preface this by saying there is nothing wrong with Sens fans not wanting Kyrou as a piece back for Tkachuk. That does not change the fact that in a vacuum they are a very close comparable. Nearly identical points per game, both leave a something to be desired on the defensive side of things. There are literally 3 things that give Tkachuk a slight edge and 2 or them are utter nonsense. Tkachuk plays with more of an edge and fire that Kyrou lacks and can be motivating for his team, that is legit. The other two things are his draft position and his name, neither of which should effect his value at this point.

Again there is nothing wrong with the Sens saying no thanks to a player their not interested in but in a vacuum Kyrou plus a small add is all Tkachuk is worth at this point.

If Kyrou isn't on the scoresheet - he's basically useless. Ottawa's version of that is Batherson (who has similar stats to Kyrou this season). There's a good reason 99.9% of the Sens fanbase will choose Brady over Batherson. Now factor in Batherson makes over 3mil less than Brady (and Kyrou) and you'll see why it's not even close.

Not to mention there's probably 25+ teams that would start with a piece Ottawa would prefer over Kyrou. It's a terrible starting point, given the Sens needs.

 

[Blanick]

If Kyrou isn't on the scoresheet - he's basically useless. Ottawa's version of that is Batherson (who has similar stats to Kyrou this season). There's a good reason 99.9% of the Sens fanbase will choose Brady over Batherson. Now factor in Batherson makes over 3mil less than Brady (and Kyrou) and you'll see why it's not even close.

Not to mention there's probably 25+ teams that would start with a piece Ottawa would prefer over Kyrou. It's a terrible starting point, given the Sens needs.

Guess who else has similar stats to Kyrou this season and the last 3 seasons. Wait for it......... Brady Tkachuk. It is also worth stating that while Kyrou is useless when not on the scoresheet, Brady's usefulness is getting overly aggressive and taking stupid penalties. Yes it my energize his team with the antics but it also actively hurts them putting them on the PK frequently. That is why he has over 6 times as many penalty minutes in his career than Kyrou despite only playing ~100 more games.

Again not arguing that Tkachuk holds slightly more value than Kyrou but they are far closer to each other than Batherson is to Kyrou.

 

[Blanick]

I will also point out that if Tkachuk is traded and I still have doubts that it will happen it means that he is forcing the Sens to trade them, making them the seller. As we have seen year after year at TDLs and the summer the seller very rarely gets a 1 for 1 equal value trade it is usually for a package of pieces. I have a hard time believing that any team that buys Tkachuk is going to offer a better player than Kyrou, maybe a prospect with higher potential but that comes with its own risk.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Guess who else has similar stats to Kyrou this season and the last 3 seasons. Wait for it......... Brady Tkachuk. It is also worth stating that while Kyrou is useless when not on the scoresheet, Brady's usefulness is getting overly aggressive and taking stupid penalties. Yes it my energize his team with the antics but it also actively hurts them putting them on the PK frequently. That is why he has over 6 times as many penalty minutes in his career than Kyrou despite only playing ~100 more games.

Again not arguing that Tkachuk holds slightly more value than Kyrou but they are far closer to each other than Batherson is to Kyrou.

This may be the best example of someone missing the point, as I've seen on HF.

 

[Blanick]

This may be the best example of someone missing the point, as I've seen on HF.

It's an example of me using your logic against you. You compared Batherson point total (44) to Kyrou (47) and I compared to Tkachuk's (50). I further extended the argument that Kyrou has a track record of points in the mid 70s that last few years similar to Tkachuk while Batherson has plateaued at 62 last year and seems unlikely to get back to that point this year. But please tell me again how I am missing the point. In a vacuum, based on points Kyrou is very comparable to Tkachuk, there are other variables that give Tkachuk a slight edge, I have conceded that point. Again if the Sens don't want Kyrou there is nothing wrong with that but fans turning their nose up pretending were offering someone like Hayes is patently ridiculous. Or imagining that it would cost the Blues Thomas + is ever more ridiculous.

 

[TK 421]

I see that some are laboring under the misguided notion that STL doesn't have a Tkachuk and thus needs one. This is incorrect, the Blues have Robert the 3rd Tkachuk Thomas as their No.1 center. They also have Walt, who weighs as much as 2 Tkachuks, and Chantal so STL is Tkachuk Central already. The Blues actually have a surplus of Tkachuk from which they could help out with other teams Tkachuk shortages. So yeah, glad we could clear that up.

 

[Blanick]

Nice @KevinRedkey, can't actually refute any of the facts that I presented so instead claim that I am "missing the point," while not providing the point or simply using the "HAHA" emote on my post because you can't come up with any counter argument. I understand wanting the best possible return on your player, we are going through that with Buchnevich right now but there is difference between rational discussion and the hyperbole and hysterics that make up most of these threads. I'll let you figure out which side of the discussion your on.

 

[Cogburn]

I have no horse in this race, but I'd pay more Tkachuk, even the younger one, than I would for Kyrou or Thomas.

 

[stempniaksen]

It's an example of me using your logic against you. You compared Batherson point total (44) to Kyrou (47) and I compared to Tkachuk's (50). I further extended the argument that Kyrou has a track record of points in the mid 70s that last few years similar to Tkachuk while Batherson has plateaued at 62 last year and seems unlikely to get back to that point this year. But please tell me again how I am missing the point. In a vacuum, based on points Kyrou is very comparable to Tkachuk, there are other variables that give Tkachuk a slight edge, I have conceded that point. Again if the Sens don't want Kyrou there is nothing wrong with that but fans turning their nose up pretending were offering someone like Hayes is patently ridiculous. Or imagining that it would cost the Blues Thomas + is ever more ridiculous.

I think the bolded is the issue honestly. What Tkachuk brings to the table is more than just points and the difference between what Tkachuk brings to the table pver Kyrou when they're not on the scoresheet is much more than a "slight edge" in the minds of Sens fans.

You're entitled to your opinion of course but every Sens fan who has posted in this thread has basically agreed that Kyrou isn't an ideal starting point because he'd bring more of the same that the Senators already have. We're a fanbase who knows a thing or two about guys being able to produce offence while bringing very little value in other areas and moving what the Sens need (intensity, leadership, physicality) for someone who can produce roughly the same offence without bringing those intangibles isn't something this team needs as currently constructed.

If BT truly wants out that obviously changes the equation, especially if his trade protection kicks in and he's picking his destination. As of now that doesn't seem to be the case so Sens fans can be as picky as they want.

 

[stl76]

I have no horse in this race, but I'd pay more Tkachuk, even the younger one, than I would for Kyrou or Thomas.

You are severely underrating Thomas.

You are right Batherson can play with a physical edge, and makes way less. Your own fanbase is booing this player out of town you own fans are trying to get rid of him and you act like he's some sort of super star.

If comparing Batherson to Kyrou is the hill you want to die on, be my guest.