Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics)

[Ivan13]

So by your argument, you say the Hall-Larsson deal is being laughed at by the NHL, yet the Oilers got a top pairing, shut down d-man?

The comparison is this, Barrie needs to improve his leaky d. Trouba needs to take the next step in his offensive game, but plays a reliable d game. Both players are young, valued themselves at a higher price than they have earned, and need to make improvements to their games before commanding top dollar.

Barrie's D is just fine for the role he's playing in. And Barrie showed miles more in the offensive department than Trouba every did defensively. Plus, Barrie deserved every bit of his contract, while we have no idea what Trouba is asking for.

NHL is laughing because half of the people employed are ignorant. Larsson is quite a bit better than Trouba.

 

[xbestboybandever]

Trouba had 3 more points than Larsson last year while being far more sheltered and being a worse defensive player.
The year before Larsson had 2 more points than Trouba
Their games played over those two years are completely even.

I think people are going to be surprised with Larsson's points next year too. Could look a lot better breaking out with a first pass to McDavid instead of Henrique or Cammy. Secondary assists may role in. Plus he already does a tremendous job of shutting down top lines.

So, please explain to me how the Hall-Larsson deal is laughable.

Trouba is also younger and has been in the league less time because he took the NCAA route. Plus, there's a monster difference between having Cory Schneider in the net versus the young tandem Winnipeg went with.

 

[Ivan13]

WTH has Schneider to do with Larsson's ability to play D?

 

[xbestboybandever]

WTH has Schneider to do with Larsson's ability to play D?

Having a top 5 goalie in the league covers up a lot of mistakes.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

So, please explain to me how the Hall-Larsson deal is laughable.

Trouba is also younger and has been in the league less time because he took the NCAA route. Plus, there's a monster difference between having Cory Schneider in the net versus the young tandem Winnipeg went with.

Please explain where I said this?

 

[xbestboybandever]

Please explain where I said this?

You did not, but you have inserted yourself into a conversation in which that was the main talking point of valuing Trouba to Landeskog and Duchene. I said the asking price for young, 2 way, right handed d-men is a very good, top line forward. Like what NJ got for Larsson, like what we asked for in regards to Barrie.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

You did not, but you have inserted yourself into a conversation in which that was the main talking point of valuing Trouba to Landeskog and Duchene. I said the asking price for young, 2 way, right handed d-men is a very good, top line forward. Like what NJ got for Larsson, like what we asked for in regards to Barrie.

I inserted myself into a conversation explaining why Hall was traded for a guy like Larsson and why WPG wont get that type of value for a lesser player in Trouba.

 

[xbestboybandever]

I inserted myself into a conversation explaining why Hall was traded for a guy like Larsson and why WPG wont get that type of value for a lesser player in Trouba.

I'm not saying what Winnipeg is getting for Trouba, but I am saying that is where they are going to start. I mean, Seth Jones brought in Ryan Johansen.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Why would we care about who is laughing? The NHL is still laughing about the ROR trade. We know why it had to be done.

 

[Ivan13]

Having a top 5 goalie in the league covers up a lot of mistakes.

Again, how does Schneider make him better at defending?

I'm not saying what Winnipeg is getting for Trouba, but I am saying that is where they are going to start. I mean, Seth Jones brought in Ryan Johansen.

Now we're going to pretend that Jones doesn't have a far higher profile than Trouba, that RyJo didn't want to get out of Columbus and that Columbus didn't want to get rid of him? You keep listing trades that have virtually no common ground just because a forward was traded for a D.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Why would we care about who is laughing? The NHL is still laughing about the ROR trade. We know why it had to be done.

That trade is just irritating. At the time everyone was laughing at buffalo. ROR had a great year and now everyone is laughing at Colorado. One slight change and people will just laugh at Buffalo again.

For those who want to feel good about that trade though here's a nice stat. Ryan O'Reilly had 24 even strength points last year. Mikhail Grigorenko had 22. If you put it at a per60 rate Grigorenko actually out produced ROR at even strength by a fair amount.

Not saying Grigorenko is anywhere near the player ROR is, but when we compare the production of one of the least important players we got back in the trade to O'Reilly and it looks that promising it's something to get excited about. We're yet to see what Zads/Greer/Compher can really do for us.

 

[xbestboybandever]

Again, how does Schneider make him better at defending?

The argument was the stats that Larsson posted, one is +/- which Schneider can influence.


Now we're going to pretend that Jones doesn't have a far higher profile than Trouba, that RyJo didn't want to get out of Columbus and that Columbus didn't want to get rid of him? You keep listing trades that have virtually no common ground just because a forward was traded for a D.

I'm listing off trades in which young defenseman have been moved in the last 5 years. Those are the comparable trades. Winnipeg has his rights, they don't have to move him and they are not looking for futures in the deal. Do they get that? No clue, but to act like them asking for Landeskog or Duchene is not unrealistic, considering the trades I have listed.

 

[Ivan13]

No one uses +/- to prove anything.

The trades you listed bare little if any meaning in the Trouba situation because of the reasons I clearly explained. And they can ask for whatever, both Landeskog and Duchene are far better than Trouba, trading either for Trouba without a significant plus added to Trouba would be insane and a fireable offense. .

 

[tigervixxxen]

Believe it or not that's what the discussion was about over this summer. It obviously didn't happen but something of that magnitude was entertained. So it's not crazy pants to discuss that this is their price. They might not get it but Bigras + isn't the conversation either.

 

[Ivan13]

Believe it or not that's what the discussion was about over this summer. It obviously didn't happen but something of that magnitude was entertained. So it's not crazy pants to discuss that this is their price. They might not get it but Bigras + isn't the conversation either.

And like I said, they can ask for whatever they want, doesn't mean it's realistic. If and when he gets traded their fans will be disappointed with what he returns. And I don't think Bigras + is a realistic scenario either. There's no trade to be made here unless they want EJ and he wants to go there, which won't happen.

 

[dahrougem2]

And like I said, they can ask for whatever they want, doesn't mean it's realistic. If and when he gets traded their fans will be disappointed with what he returns. And I don't think Bigras + is a realistic scenario either. There's no trade to be made here unless they want EJ and he wants to go there, which won't happen.

Not saying you're wrong because I 100% agree with what you're saying, but man oh man am I happy we don't have to see that sentence anymore due to ROR. For a few years, that was all the main board would spew.

 

[Ivan13]

Not saying you're wrong because I 100% agree with what you're saying, but man oh man am I happy we don't have to see that sentence anymore due to ROR. For a few years, that was all the main board would spew.

Yeah. The difference here is that Radar was an elite two-way player who proved himself time and time again, Trouba not so much. And we got close what we expected, while Jets fans here want the moon for Trouba.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Doesn't matter if the NHL is laughing, the value has been put in place and Winnipeg is going to use that deal as s starting point. The Pronger situation was drastically different and Phanuef had that boat anchor of a contract. What was our ask for Barrie?

The NHL is laughing at the trade because the Oilers traded a top 10 player in his position for a guy that plays good defence. He's no Vlasic. If everything goes to plan with Larsson he's another Hjalmarsson. It's not an insult by any means but not a guy you trade a premier player for and certainly not a #1 defender.

Pronger/Phanuef were drastically different situations but yet Larsson/Hall wasn't?

Pronger asked for a trade, which is a lot closer to Trouba than Larsson's situation.

 

[D3vilsH0ck3y]

Devils fan here coming for a little bit of advice... Witht he new coach who would you rather own in a keeper league for the upcoming season? Duchene or MacKinnon? (categories are goals, assists, points, +/-, Power Play Points, Shots, Hits, and Blocks) Any input s greatly appreciated.

As for your conversation above.. Adam Larsson is a stud, I understand why the devils had to do it but that doesn't mean I have to love it. He is a #1 dman and will prove it to everyone this season.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Devils fan here coming for a little bit of advice... Witht he new coach who would you rather own in a keeper league for the upcoming season? Duchene or MacKinnon? (categories are goals, assists, points, +/-, Power Play Points, Shots, Hits, and Blocks) Any input s greatly appreciated.

As for your conversation above.. Adam Larsson is a stud, I understand why the devils had to do it but that doesn't mean I have to love it. He is a #1 dman and will prove it to everyone this season.

If it's this year only I'd say Mackinnon pretty easily. Keeper league? Mackinnon AINEC.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Devils fan here coming for a little bit of advice... Witht he new coach who would you rather own in a keeper league for the upcoming season? Duchene or MacKinnon? (categories are goals, assists, points, +/-, Power Play Points, Shots, Hits, and Blocks) Any input s greatly appreciated.

As for your conversation above.. Adam Larsson is a stud, I understand why the devils had to do it but that doesn't mean I have to love it. He is a #1 dman and will prove it to everyone this season.

Flip a coin. They won't be far off from one another.

Over 250+ games in the NHL and doesn't have 10 career goals. Name one other #1 defender who is similar. Foote in his prime was not a #1 Dman...Larsson is a far cry from him.

 

[D3vilsH0ck3y]

Flip a coin. They won't be far off from one another.

Over 250+ games in the NHL and doesn't have 10 career goals. Name one other #1 defender who is similar. Foote in his prime was not a #1 Dman...Larsson is a far cry from him.

Seems like you are a stat guy... Here are the devils rankings in goals scored over the last 4 years.... Last, 3rd to last, 4th to last, and 3rd to last. Sprinkle that in with DeBoer almost ruining him the first few years and there is your low goal total. Lets see what the offensive stats look like playing on an offensive minded Edmonton team.

 

[tigervixxxen]

If it's this year only I'd say Mackinnon pretty easily. Keeper league? Mackinnon AINEC.

Yeah I second the MacKinnon choice

 

[Bender]

The NHL is laughing at the trade because the Oilers traded a top 10 player in his position for a guy that plays good defence. He's no Vlasic. If everything goes to plan with Larsson he's another Hjalmarsson. It's not an insult by any means but not a guy you trade a premier player for and certainly not a #1 defender.

Pronger/Phanuef were drastically different situations but yet Larsson/Hall wasn't?

Pronger asked for a trade, which is a lot closer to Trouba than Larsson's situation.

I'd say that's a pretty accurate assessment of this player and where could be at if all goes well. Those thinking it was a pretty even swap for Taylor Hall are going to be proven wrong, this coming year. I realize there are notable omission on every team but Sweden actually preferred Mattias Ekholm and Anton Stralman to Adam Larsson on their World Cup roster...if he was the #1 D-man stud some people seem to think, that would never have happened...not even close.

Devils fan here coming for a little bit of advice... Witht he new coach who would you rather own in a keeper league for the upcoming season? Duchene or MacKinnon? (categories are goals, assists, points, +/-, Power Play Points, Shots, Hits, and Blocks) Any input s greatly appreciated.

As for your conversation above.. Adam Larsson is a stud, I understand why the devils had to do it but that doesn't mean I have to love it. He is a #1 dman and will prove it to everyone this season.

He's a solid #3 (or worse) and he will prove it this season. The little wrinkle in all this is that he's going to have to 'live up' to the added pressure of being the guy that was traded for Taylor Hall. In that market, I can't wait to see it.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Some harsh criticism of Larsson here. Good player, not worth Taylor Hall. I don't think he's as bad as some make him out to be, but he still won't be a savior in Edmonton.