Value of: Avs are getting healthy, still need a #2C and backup goalie

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Jul 25, 2012
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Ugh I don't want any of these awful players being offered lol

Henrique? MONAHAN??!

Hard pass even if they were free.
What a weird post…. Henrique is miles better than ryjo and colton.

Finding a 2c was something you needed to do in the offseason not the deadine... isnt exactly going to be a ton of options out there... even lindholm hasnt looked great and prob going to cost way more than Henrique.

Maybe the kings would trade you PLD tho
 
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Bender

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Sep 25, 2002
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Drouin was offered at 50% avs fans still say no , not even for a 7th rd.
If he stays in AVS next year he will ask for at least 3.5mil
Yeah because 50% of $5.5M is still a hell of a lot more than $825K AND he was playing poorly in that market or not playing at all.

Comes to the Avs on close to a minimum deal - the Avs gave him time to do a 'reset' and here we are - he's playing very well for us.

It was still the correct call to say 'no' to a 7th with 50% retention last season.
 

Miller Time

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Sep 16, 2004
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I would think the following would be on the move if they could solve their 2nd line center disaster with a youngish player that is either an upcoming RFA or locked up. I know that will cost a lot.

Byram LHD
Ritchie C (having a great year in the OHL 45pts in 25 games)
Behrens LHD
1st rd picks available: 24, 25 and 26
2nd rd picks : 26


What could be the outcome?

It's completely relevant because like way back when - it's now YOU FANS who are trying to shove monahan down our throats when he's clearly not what the Avs need.
perhaps you need to revisit the post that started this thread? (see above)

Avs fan identified 2C as a need. Of the players generally viewed as "available", Monahan represents the #2 or #3 option, from a quality pov, at C. That's not a habs fan opinion, that's just the reality of the market.

Of those 3 options (Lindholm, Henrique, Monahan), Monahan carries 1/2 the cap hit of the other two, and therefore is much easier for any contending/cap stretched team to consider adding.

Again, not a habs fan opinion, a very simple, relevant and obvious fact.


Now, as to your opinion that Monahan "isn't what the Avs need". Great. not sure you need to add anything to that. OP sees a need at C. Monahan is one of the best C options available. Is what it is.

If you think that Ross or RyJo are better players, today, than Monahan. Great. Not all opinions are created equally, as they say.

Monahan may get traded, or he may stay put. If he does get traded, it's likely that his minutes will go down, and I would bet that his scoring/60 actually goes up... Context matters. Playing on a team with the likes of Makar/Toews/Girard/Mack/Rantanen creates a lot more opportunity for middle-6 players than playing on a roster as thin as the habs this year.... You might have heard of a player named Jonathan Drouin... saw his G/60 and sh% grow exponentially from a year ago. Funny what playing with and around elite talent does to some skilled players, isn't it ;)
 
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Bender

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perhaps you need to revisit the post that started this thread? (see above)

Avs fan identified 2C as a need. Of the players generally viewed as "available", Monahan represents the #2 or #3 option, from a quality pov, at C. That's not a habs fan opinion, that's just the reality of the market.

Of those 3 options (Lindholm, Henrique, Monahan), Monahan carries 1/2 the cap hit of the other two, and therefore is much easier for any contending/cap stretched team to consider adding.

Again, not a habs fan opinion, a very simple, relevant and obvious fact.


Now, as to your opinion that Monahan "isn't what the Avs need". Great. not sure you need to add anything to that. OP sees a need at C. Monahan is one of the best C options available. Is what it is.

If you think that Ross or RyJo are better players, today, than Monahan. Great. Not all opinions are created equally, as they say.

Monahan may get traded, or he may stay put. If he does get traded, it's likely that his minutes will go down, and I would bet that his scoring/60 actually goes up... Context matters. Playing on a team with the likes of Makar/Toews/Girard/Mack/Rantanen creates a lot more opportunity for middle-6 players than playing on a roster as thin as the habs this year.... You might have heard of a player named Jonathan Drouin... saw his G/60 and sh% grow exponentially from a year ago. Funny what playing with and around elite talent does to some skilled players, isn't it ;)
For the 1st bolded - let me rephrase that then. It is my opinion that if the Avs want to go deep in the playoffs and potentially win the Cup again while we have this core together, they need a BETTER PLAYER than what Monahan has shown to be this season.

I love how you state that it's my opinion as if it doesn't have much value but then you go on to state YOUR opinion as if it's a cold-hard fact that couldn't possibly be discounted. Go ahead and pat yourself on the back there, sparky. :laugh:

For the 2nd part - this is exactly the same thinking that led to CMac acquiring a player like Ryan Johansen (who we got at half price for free) because if RyJo was playing with elite players, his 'stats should grow exponentially', right ?

Turns out, RyJo can't keep up in Bednar's system and has trouble maintaining the pace that's set by the rest of the team so on most nights, he's a full step behind everyone else. That's why he's having problems in Colorado, it's not because he forgot how to play hockey. He's been a notorious floater for years - so to ask him to be engaged and working his ass off every night is a tough ask and it was a risky acquisition to begin with.

Now I live in the montreal area and I've seen plenty of Monahan this season. While faster than RyJo, he's not exactly the speedster he used to be... I'll leave it at that.
 

Lockin17

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Jul 31, 2018
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Yeah because 50% of $5.5M is still a hell of a lot more than $825K AND he was playing poorly in that market or not playing at all.

Comes to the Avs on close to a minimum deal - the Avs gave him time to do a 'reset' and here we are - he's playing very well for us.

It was still the correct call to say 'no' to a 7th with 50% retention last season.
You guys called him trash over and over again.
The money was not a issue.
And now he's playing on your first line.

You guys are just good at calling players out.
 
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Miller Time

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Sep 16, 2004
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For the 1st bolded - let me rephrase that then. It is my opinion that if the Avs want to go deep in the playoffs and potentially win the Cup again while we have this core together, they need a BETTER PLAYER than what Monahan has shown to be this season.

I love how you state that it's my opinion as if it doesn't have much value but then you go on to state YOUR opinion as if it's a cold-hard fact that couldn't possibly be discounted. Go ahead and pat yourself on the back there, sparky. :laugh:

For the 2nd part - this is exactly the same thinking that led to CMac acquiring a player like Ryan Johansen (who we got at half price for free) because if RyJo was playing with elite players, his 'stats should grow exponentially', right ?

Turns out, RyJo can't keep up in Bednar's system and has trouble maintaining the pace that's set by the rest of the team so on most nights, he's a full step behind everyone else. That's why he's having problems in Colorado, it's not because he forgot how to play hockey. He's been a notorious floater for years - so to ask him to be engaged and working his ass off every night is a tough ask and it was a risky acquisition to begin with.

Now I live in the montreal area and I've seen plenty of Monahan this season. While faster than RyJo, he's not exactly the speedster he used to be... I'll leave it at that.
Monahan is not a floater, quite the opposite.

Opinions are opinions, regardless of who shares them. Facts, are a different thing. It is a fact that every year there are deadline deals that have players moved for far more value than some segments of the recipient fan base assessed... and that every year there are deadline deals that don't turn out well for the "buying" team.

RyJo played with very talented players in Nashville... including a Norris caliber dman through his prime. If anyone thought the issues he had in Nashville were because of a weak supporting cast, they were operating from a very poorly grounded opinion ;)
He was 1 season removed from a near career best year when the Predators willingly ate 4M$/year for 2 years to move him for nothing in return... and that despite still going into the season with 8M$ in cap space (so they didn't cut ties with him because of cap reasons). That speaks volumes to how RyJo's performance was valued, and his struggles in Colorado only further cement how low he's fallen.

The two are not comparable, frankly. the opinion that they are has very little grounding in reality.

If the Avs figure that Monahan won't be able to adapt to their play style, they obviously won't trade for him. But they gave up a 2nd last year for Eller who isn't exactly a speedster at this point in his career either, so :dunno:
 

PAZ

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Jul 14, 2011
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You guys called him trash over and over again.
The money was not a issue.
And now he's playing on your first line.

You guys are just good at calling players out.
Drouin was trash the first 20-30 games of the season. He would’ve been trash if we acquired him at the TDL last year.

Bednar + co. are great at rebuilding a player’s game and confidence, but they aren’t miracle workers. Drouin would’ve been useless last year and wouldn’t have sniffed any postseason time. He also wouldn’t have had the leash he has this year since they were gearing up for the playoffs.
 

Bender

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Sep 25, 2002
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Monahan is not a floater, quite the opposite.

Opinions are opinions, regardless of who shares them. Facts, are a different thing. It is a fact that every year there are deadline deals that have players moved for far more value than some segments of the recipient fan base assessed... and that every year there are deadline deals that don't turn out well for the "buying" team.

RyJo played with very talented players in Nashville... including a Norris caliber dman through his prime. If anyone thought the issues he had in Nashville were because of a weak supporting cast, they were operating from a very poorly grounded opinion ;)
He was 1 season removed from a near career best year when the Predators willingly ate 4M$/year for 2 years to move him for nothing in return... and that despite still going into the season with 8M$ in cap space (so they didn't cut ties with him because of cap reasons). That speaks volumes to how RyJo's performance was valued, and his struggles in Colorado only further cement how low he's fallen.

The two are not comparable, frankly. the opinion that they are has very little grounding in reality.

If the Avs figure that Monahan won't be able to adapt to their play style, they obviously won't trade for him. But they gave up a 2nd last year for Eller who isn't exactly a speedster at this point in his career either, so :dunno:
To be clear, I didn't call Monahan a floater - I called RyJo a floater. I know Monahan has a good work ethic.

I don't know how you can say that they aren't comparable. Both were at one time considered #1C for their organizations. Both went through significant injuries in recent years (RyJo - achilles-foot-ankle / Monahan - Hip) and both clearly don't skate nearly as well as they once did.

Besides, I'm not saying they are comparable in terms of 'value' throughout the league - I'm purely comparing them in terms of each player being acquired to play as the #2C on the second line for the Avs. My belief is that Monahan would struggle as well and he's better suited for a different team.

The Avs gave up a 2nd for Eller to play as the teams' #3C last season because Bednar had faith in Compher's ability to center the 2nd line. Compher had a grand total of 12 points in his last 30 games for the Avalanche (including playoffs) playing exclusively in the Top-6 so that played a large part in the Avs first round exit.

When other teams are willing to shell-out $5M+ and a long-term contracts to a guy like Compher who couldn't get it done as the Avs #2C - are you really THAT sure that Monahan would fit that bill no problem ?
 

BKarchitect

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I would’ve given a late 1st for two years of Henrique but definitely not just as a rental, and definitely not Ritchie or Gulyayev now that they are tracking really well.

Still would be interested in Henrique as a versatile pure rental but more in the Josh Manson range of cost (2nd and B- prospect).

Would much prefer Henrique to Monahan from a stylistic standpoint. Wouldn’t totally thumb my nose at Monahan but certainly not at the price some Habs fans are dreaming of.

Lindholm totally depends on price of his new contract and Landeskog’s long-term prognosis. I’m not a cap guy so if you tell me the Avs can keep everybody including Landeskog and Moose’s new deal and also resign Lindholm - then yeah, I’m all in on that. But without studying the math - that seems virtually impossible. And there is zero chance the Avs will prioritize Lindholm long-term over a healthy Landeskog (I know, big if) or Moose’s next deal. And you gotta keep that powder dry for Cale too. It’s a ways off but you can’t hand out 8 years deals to 29 year-olds like candy and expect to have a good financial outlook for future deals.
 

AvStock

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Lmfao at all of the pin heads who think we will trade Byram for Henrique or Monahan, Nelson, etc… you can however get Girard for one of those
 
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Miller Time

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To be clear, I didn't call Monahan a floater - I called RyJo a floater. I know Monahan has a good work ethic.

I don't know how you can say that they aren't comparable. Both were at one time considered #1C for their organizations. Both went through significant injuries in recent years (RyJo - achilles-foot-ankle / Monahan - Hip) and both clearly don't skate nearly as well as they once did.

Besides, I'm not saying they are comparable in terms of 'value' throughout the league - I'm purely comparing them in terms of each player being acquired to play as the #2C on the second line for the Avs. My belief is that Monahan would struggle as well and he's better suited for a different team.

The Avs gave up a 2nd for Eller to play as the teams' #3C last season because Bednar had faith in Compher's ability to center the 2nd line. Compher had a grand total of 12 points in his last 30 games for the Avalanche (including playoffs) playing exclusively in the Top-6 so that played a large part in the Avs first round exit.

When other teams are willing to shell-out $5M+ and a long-term contracts to a guy like Compher who couldn't get it done as the Avs #2C - are you really THAT sure that Monahan would fit that bill no problem ?

Yes, I would take Monahan over compher, and yes, I think Monahan will get something in the 5M$ range on a multi year deal this summer...

I'm sure the Avs would love to have McDavid play 2C. But as this isn't video game world, the reality is that IF they choose to upgrade their C position btw now and the deadline, the oprions are relatively limited (minus a much bigger or riskier deal than a trade for Lindholm, Monahan or Henrique would represent).

If I were in Colorado's shoes, I'd feel pretty good about targeting Monahan both because of the upgrade he'd represent & relative ease to make it work cap-wise.

But there are several teams looking for such upgrade and a few of them have probably bigger incentive to upgrade at C, hopefully Hughes is able to sell to the highest bidder.
 
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Alienblood

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Nov 22, 2021
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Buffalo is not trading for an overhyped overpaid Ratannen.

Buffalo has a bunch of young wingers in their system.

not having having a concussion in 2 years doesnt matter. concussions dont heal like a torn ligament where at some point you are back at 100%. we have seen athletes in other sports like football walk away. Whats to stop him after the next big hit.
Makar has had as many if not more
 

John Mandalorian

2022 Avs: The First Dance
Nov 29, 2018
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Yes, I would take Monahan over compher, and yes, I think Monahan will get something in the 5M$ range on a multi year deal this summer...

I'm sure the Avs would love to have McDavid play 2C. But as this isn't video game world, the reality is that IF they choose to upgrade their C position btw now and the deadline, the oprions are relatively limited (minus a much bigger or riskier deal than a trade for Lindholm, Monahan or Henrique would represent).

If I were in Colorado's shoes, I'd feel pretty good about targeting Monahan both because of the upgrade he'd represent & relative ease to make it work cap-wise.

But there are several teams looking for such upgrade and a few of them have probably bigger incentive to upgrade at C, hopefully Hughes is able to sell to the highest bidder.

Nice try at a pump and dump.

No thanks though.
 

Miller Time

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Sep 16, 2004
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All good. Still though - no thanks!!
Perfect, cuz I wasn't asking you.

Funny thing is that the odds are pretty good that Hughes/McFarland are talking. They've made mutually beneficial deals twice already in Hughes' brief tenure.

If Avs are lucky enough to win the Monahan sweepstakes, I suspect both sides that matter will be pleased with the deal.
 
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Pierce Hawthorne

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I would think that the Avs would want players with more of a winning track record, and better two way games, like Lindholm... I mean Hertl would be great, but I don't think he's available.
Mittelstadt is a phenomenal two-way player.


Zegras was making strides in his two-way game under Cronin this year before injuries starting plaguing his year.


The playoff experience thing wouldn't be an issue IMO because the Avs are loaded with playoff experience and would be able to surround either guy with 2 Stanley Cup winning wingers that would help with the playoff intensity.
 

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John Mandalorian

2022 Avs: The First Dance
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Perfect, cuz I wasn't asking you.

Funny thing is that the odds are pretty good that Hughes/McFarland are talking. They've made mutually beneficial deals twice already in Hughes' brief tenure.

If Avs are lucky enough to win the Monahan sweepstakes, I suspect both sides that matter will be pleased with the deal.

Maybe. But this is also why MacFarland is on thin ice (with fans).

Bednar has veto powers. And he hasnt subscribed to this slow and broken down parade. MacFarland is all you care about, certainly. Thats the root of this pump and dump routine of yours.

Admittedly, within the Avs, there are incongruities. Maybe at some point MacFarland should give his coach guys he can legitimately use instead of this parade of broken down race horses.

PS - Thanks for Drouin though.
 

Miller Time

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Sep 16, 2004
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Maybe. But this is also why MacFarland is on thin ice (with fans).

Bednar has veto powers. And he hasnt subscribed to this slow and broken down parade. MacFarland is all you care about, certainly. Thats the root of this pump and dump routine of yours.

Admittedly, within the Avs, there are incongruities. Maybe at some point MacFarland should give his coach guys he can legitimately use instead of this parade of broken down race horses.

PS - Thanks for Drouin though.


Enjoy the crow as much as you enjoy Drouin :)
 
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Pierce Hawthorne

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You can quit it with the personal jabs. It's one thing to have empty takes, another to behave like a troll.

Aside from the incoherence of your opinions and player assessments, you continue to show difficulty understanding what you are reading in my posts, so probably best to move on.

Enjoy the crow as much as you enjoy Drouin :)
The irony is strong
 

toddkaz

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Nov 25, 2022
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Mittelstadt is a perfect fit for the Avs but I don't think they have what it takes to get Mitts.
 

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