Value of: Avs are getting healthy, still need a #2C and backup goalie

[Miller Time]

How is Monahab really much of an upgrade over Johansen? Theyre similar players.

Not at all.

This is why stat watching is a limited way to assess players.

Aside from the very clear leadership, attitude & compete level intangibles, Monahan is a more versatile player and can step up to a larger role without being overwhelmed.

There's actually very little similarity btw the two except superficially

 

[Miller Time]

Ahhh, exactly?

Lehkonen came to Colorado and played on the Top line with Mackinnon.... Monahan is not going to come to Colorado and play on the Top line with Mackinnon. He's going to play 2nd or even 3rd line minutes, and get less PP opportunities with the Avs because he certainly wont be making the top PP unit.

So maybe you should pay more attention to roster context....


Monahan does nothing to shore up Colorado's roster weakness. He's not a meaningful upgrade in anyway over Johansen.


Same thing with Henrique although he's a little better. I'd much prefer throwing a 1st round pick away on Henrique over Monahan.

You might want to check your reasoning lol

Monahan is a significant upgrade on RyJo, that right there highlights that you have not actually watched the player you are so confident in assessing.

Monahan has demonstrated that he can remain a quality, engaged and consistent contributor with reduced minutes, and the ability to ramp up his production to solid top 6 level despite a brutally weak supporting cast when deployed that way. RyJo has shown the exact opposite.

Like Lekhonen* previously, Monahan is producing what he is producing in a depleted roster context. While his minutes would likely diminish in Colorado (though I bet he'd easily be relied on more than the 14min RyJo gets), the quality of opposition he'd face would be much weaker and the quality of his linemates/D support, much stronger.

That's called context. Something missing from your take.

*Ironically, many Habs fans had takes similarly missing the context like yours about him when he was with us... Few appreciated his game and how it had the clear capacity for greater output with a different/improved context.

 

[absolute garbage]

I think RyJo+1st for Monahan and Allen makes sense.

But I can see that being more of a plan B in case Colorado can't find anything better for that 1st rounder.

 

[Goulet17]

No, he was an RFA with 1 year left to UFA... And it wasn't for a 1st, it was a 2nd & former first round pick.

Last year McFarland traded a 2nd for Eller (UFA to be) & in the summer traded a high 2nd for Ross's last year RFA rights.
earlier Sakic traded a 2nd & prospect for Manson (UFA to be)...

So not sure that it's accurate to suggest the org. doesn't trade high picks or quality prospects for immediate help. An RFA or UFA you intend to extend for term is a better gamble than a pure "rental", no doubt about that. Will be interesting to see how they approach this year & next given Rantanen's contract status & their big holes/whiffs at G & C.

Colorado has traded second round picks, in abundance. Colorado has not historically traded first round picks for UFA rentals. I am trying to recall any specific instance when it has happened in the last 10 years or so. Colorado could always make a move that is out of character for the organization, but they are nothing if not consistent.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

You might want to check your reasoning lol

Monahan is a significant upgrade on RyJo, that right there highlights that you have not actually watched the player you are so confident in assessing.

Like Lekhonen, Monahan is producing what he is producing in a depleted roster context. While his minutes would likely diminish in Colorado (though I bet he'd easily be relied on more than the 14min RyJo gets), the quality of opposition he'd face would be much weaker and the quality of his linemates/D support, much stronger.

That's called context. Something missing from your take.

He really isn't and unfortunately I have watched far too many Habs games this year as it is.

The dude can barely skate just like RyJo, he's a liability defensively just like RyJo. The difference between the two is Monahan is getting top minutes including #1PP minutes while RyJo is in Jared Bednar's doghouse because he sucks.

The exact same spot Monahan would end up because he's barely any better then RyJo. Better, but not a worthwhile amount and he absolutely wouldn't be able to play in Bednars system.

 

[Miller Time]

Colorado has traded second round picks, in abundance. Colorado has not historically traded first round picks for UFA rentals. I am trying to recall any specific instance when it has happened in the last 10 years or so. Colorado could always make a move that is out of character for the organization, but they are nothing if not consistent.

The value of the 30th pick vs the 37th pick is negligible and not reflective of a shifting organization philosophy imo

He really isn't and unfortunately I have watched far too many Habs games this year as it is.

The dude can barely skate just like RyJo, he's a liability defensively just like RyJo. The difference between the two is Monahan is getting top minutes including #1PP minutes while RyJo is in Jared Bednar's doghouse because he sucks.

The exact same spot Monahan would end up because he's barely any better then RyJo. Better, but not a worthwhile amount and he absolutely wouldn't be able to play in Bednars system.

Right.

Confident in your assessment despite admitting you haven't seen what you are assessing

Bad takes are easy, no doubt about that.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Colorado has traded second round picks, in abundance. Colorado has not historically traded first round picks for UFA rentals. I am trying to recall any specific instance when it has happened in the last 10 years or so. Colorado could always make a move that is out of character for the organization, but they are nothing if not consistent.

It hasn't happened.

The closest they came was trading the 2022 1st round pick in July 2021 for a full year of Darcy Kuemper who ended up being a 1 year rental, but that's a big difference compared to a deadline UFA rental as well.



If the Avs trade for a rental like Monahan or Henrique, it wont be for a 1st round pick. It'll be the 2026 2nd that gets moved, probably with a + in the form of a B/C level prospect, like a Oskar Olausson or Ben Meyers type.

The value of the 30th pick vs the 37th pick is negligible and not reflective of a shifting organization philosophy imo



Right.

Confident in your assessment despite admitting you haven't seen what you are assessing

Bad takes are easy, no doubt about that.

"Unfortunately I have watched far too many Habs games this year as it is"


Try reading next time?

 

[John Mandalorian]

Not at all.

This is why stat watching is a limited way to assess players.

Aside from the very clear leadership, attitude & compete level intangibles, Monahan is a more versatile player and can step up to a larger role without being overwhelmed.

There's actually very little similarity btw the two except superficially

No. Both are poor skaters. Both are need (not line drivers and reliant on PP1 for points). Both are good at face offs. Neither excel at doing other things like bringing energy and fore/backchecking.

The first item and the last items are possibly the most concerning. Colorado already has a version of this type of player and hes getting 10 minutes a game.

Also worth mentioning Monahan has seemingly annual health issues. This is a big reason for the pump and dump occurring with him. But also, Monahan is playing in an environment where expectations are low. People blame injuries exclusively for his struggles in Calgary. Pressure to win could have also been a part of it.

Theres a lot of risk and also redundancy.

 

[Oblivion Beckons]

Not at all.

This is why stat watching is a limited way to assess players.

Aside from the very clear leadership, attitude & compete level intangibles, Monahan is a more versatile player and can step up to a larger role without being overwhelmed.

There's actually very little similarity btw the two except superficially

It is always funny watching Habs fans try to convince people how their mediocre player they want to get out of the team is so great. No one will be convinced. Monahan is absolutely not what the Avs need.

 

[Freaky Styley]

If the Islanders are out of the playoffs at deadline could see Brock Nelson being traded, think he would be a good fit for Avs

He'd probably be right at the top of the Avs list.

Contrary to the other posters in here, I think the Avs do and would have interest in both Henrique and Monahan. Lindholm is becoming less likely by the day IMO and he was never going to be re-signed, so I think CMac is less inclined to sell the farm for someone like that (for better or for worse)

I also think that Colorado has the wingers (when healthy) that a guy like Henrique would be fine serving as 2C. He's got playoff pedigree as well.

But I only think Henrique/Monahan make sense if we get both of them. Going from Johansen to either of them doesn't move the needle enough alone. But if we replace Johansen + Olofsson with Henrique + Monahan that's an overall nice improvement. As people have mentioned, getting Allen with Monahan would be ideal as well.

Johansen + for Allen + Monahan
Futures for Henrique @50%

There's a good chance the Avs could get both of these guys and still keep Gulayev, Ritchie, Girard & Byram. If so, I think it's something CMac seriously considers.


Drouin - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Lehkonen - Henrique - Nichuskin
Wood - Colton - LOC
Cogliano - Monahan - Kiviranta
Parise/Kovalenko/Olofsson/ Landeskog*

 

[Miller Time]

No. Both are poor skaters. Both are need (not line drivers and reliant on PP1 for points). Both are good at face offs. Neither excel at doing other things like bringing energy and fore/backchecking.

The first item and the last items are possibly the most concerning. Colorado already has a version of this type of player and hes getting 10 minutes a game.

Also worth mentioning Monahan has seemingly annual health issues. This is a big reason for the pump and dump occurring with him. But also, Monahan is playing in an environment where expectations are low. People blame injuries exclusively for his struggles in Calgary. Pressure to win could have also been a part of it.

Theres a lot of risk and also redundancy.

Expectations should be low... But it's Montreal, and that just isn't the case lol.

Monahan excelled in Calgary before his significant injuries occured.

Certainly, if a team was debating a long term commitment, his injury history would dampen the asking price. This season he's playing over 18min/game, and seems to have figured out a load management approach that is working.

I'm 100% in favor of the Habs bringing him back for 2-4yrs, so the "pump and dump" argument doesn't apply. Best case is that the Habs move him to his preferred destination with a handshake agreement to sign him back on July 1.

He is more effective than your assessment suggests, and rather than wearing out his welcome as RyJo has quickly done after his previous team ate 8M$ just to get him out of their organization, Monahan is accurately viewed as an important and trusted leader & mentor.

Put it in a different context... Monahan today provides more on & off the ice than Eller does/did last year.

 

[Thechozen1]

You know, f*** it. Pens signal the rebuild. Crosby for 1st 2024, 2025, 2026 and the requisite amount of cap dumps necessary to make the cap work.

I’d offer a lot more than that to get Crosby to the Jets.

 

[Bender]

He is a 3C or 2W, but his numbers aren't getting boosted. He's had dog shit linemates for most of the season. For most of the season the Habs have had 4 forwards capable of doing anything offensively, 3 of them play on the first line and Monahan gets stuck with the plugs. Of course he's gonna look better on the PP when he plays with those 3.

For the record this is the exact same argument coyotes fans kept trying to shove down Avs fans throats about Dvorak and how he was totally worth a 1st round pick and could totally center a 2nd line... that is before that idiot bergevin actually did throw out a 1st for him and it's been proven that he sucks. How you like that guy ?

Monahan's stats are absolutely getting boosted by playing on the 1st PP unit. He has the 3rd most PP ice time per game on the habs. He wouldn't get anywhere close to that kind of ice time in Colorado. For comparison, there are FIVE forwards with more PP ice time on the Avs than Johansen. So without those 13 PP points, seanmo's got 18 points on the season in 47 games... not what the Avs need.

Another comparison, Ross Colton (who has been playing some #2C but it isn't ideal) has 24 points on the season with only 3 PP points... so he's actually got more even strength points than Monahan and most Avs fans want an upgrade on Colton AND Johansen.

Monahan isn't plugging any hole for a #2C for ANY contender... he could be decent in a #3C role though... I doubt it will be the Avs who trade for him.

 

[The Great Weal]

Monahan isn't plugging any hole for a #2C for ANY contender... he could be decent in a #3C role though...

Which is exactly what I said... Monahan and Dvorak are nothing alike, it's completely irrelevant to this thread.

 

[Bender]

Which is exactly what I said... Monahan and Dvorak are nothing alike, it's completely irrelevant to this thread.

It's completely relevant because like way back when - it's now YOU FANS who are trying to shove monahan down our throats when he's clearly not what the Avs need.

 

[The Great Weal]

It's completely relevant because like way back when - it's now YOU FANS who are trying to shove monahan down our throats when he's clearly not what the Avs need.

Christian Dvorak's value 4 years ago according to Coyotes fans has no relevance to my post saying that Sean Monahan is a 3C/2W. Not to mention that they still ended up getting a 1st anyways bad trade or not. I was clarifying that poster's claim that the PP is boosting Monahan's numbers when they didn't consider his dogshit linemates all year.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Jones has been "alright/good" for Toronto OR you can also get Samsonov who's been really good the last 3 games

It's probably not Toronto's year and once Woll is healthy, carrying 3 goalies isn't ideal.

 

[Lockin17]

AVS fans = Monahan sucks he would not even make the team.

AVS fans last year = Drouin sucks his a cap dump.
Ohh shit Drouin playing on their first line now.......

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Ugh I don't want any of these awful players being offered lol

Henrique? MONAHAN??!

Hard pass even if they were free.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

AVS fans = Monahan sucks he would not even make the team.

AVS fans last year = Drouin sucks his a cap dump.
Ohh shit Drouin playing on their first line now.......

Habs fans = Don't understand the difference between a $5.5M contract and an $825k cap dump.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Monahan and Allen for something noice

 

[57special]

If Mittelstadt or Zegras really are available that is where all of the Avs attention should be.


If they aren't available, Lindholm is the best chance to win this year but they shouldn't be using an asset like Byram on a pure UFA rental.

I would think that the Avs would want players with more of a winning track record, and better two way games, like Lindholm... I mean Hertl would be great, but I don't think he's available.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Habs fans = Don't understand the difference between a $5.5M contract and an $825k cap dump.

Ava fans don’t understand when contracts expire

 

[Lockin17]

Habs fans = Don't understand the difference between a $5.5M contract and an $825k cap dump.

Drouin was offered at 50% avs fans still say no , not even for a 7th rd.
If he stays in AVS next year he will ask for at least 3.5mil

 

[zizbuka]

I feel like any Centre can play wing but not the other way around. Lots of players were drafted as Centres and end up as Wingers but never the other way around.

Centre but not Wingre? Weird.........