Auston Matthews is 53 goals from franchise history.

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Some people obviously aren’t well versed in our history and that comes through sometimes. I don’t think anyone should be disrespecting previous Leafs, but this type of comment cuts both ways. I think our current guys get more shit than they deserve as well.

Make no mistake about it I'm well aware of the history of this team but I'm no longer willing to celebrate or honor past eras because at the end of the day they lost, the best any Leaf team could do since 1967 was the conference finals.

When other teams, honor their past, and I'm not just talking about hockey teams, they honor championship teams, MAYBE teams that went to the finals, NOBODY is celebrating a conference final team, it doesn't happen.

Except it does with the Leafs.

I'm not doing it anymore.

Beyond this post I'm not going to talk about how the 2002 team is my favorite version of the team, although it is.

I'm not going to talk about how I thought 2003 and 2004 were even deeper than 2002 although, I did

Or how I thought the team that won the Canadian division would walk to the finals had Tavares not gotten kneed in the skull, still feel that way.

I'm not going to treat Tavares like a hero because he sent them to the 2nd round in 2023.

I'm done glorifying the past because there is nothing to glorify.

Nobody else glorifies conference finals they glorify championships.

There needs to be a higher standard here.

I want, and need a championship

 

[IPS]

Some people obviously aren’t well versed in our history and that comes through sometimes. I don’t think anyone should be disrespecting previous Leafs, but this type of comment cuts both ways. I think our current guys get more shit than they deserve as well.

Are you forgetting the reference point?

Go back to 2016 after we drafted Matthews. The optimism around this organization was unlike anything ever seen. After the Washington series hockey was booming in Toronto like never before.

To go from that point to one first round win in 8 years and never winning more than 5 games in the playoffs - you can't even put it into words how big of a letdown that is.

To say our guys "get more shit than they deserve" is just plain wrong. The results they've given is way more than enough reason for fans to voice their displeasure.

 

[ULF_55]

last i checked those leaf legends also were losers...not having made it to a single final let alone winning a cup. Mind you i am old enough to remember the 90s very well

90's is pretty darn recent.
Many of us here remember the 60's.
But you're correct, no winners on this current team.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Florida getting destroyed by McDavid and Tkachuk trying to do something about it (and failing) is not the same as Matthews getting shut down by a bottom feeder and then punked by Ben Chiarot. You will have to try another bad faith argument.

How does Matthews get shut down and also get bullied? Not sure but this is the guy MLSE placed their faith in. But he's not alone, Marner victimized by Florida too. It's almost like contextless clips are worthless, kind of like advanced stats.

 

[notDatsyuk]

And only 527 off the league record!

More than anything it's a sad commentary on how badly the team has done in developing and keeping players since expansion. For example Lanny McDonald had 500 goals, but more than half of them were scored after Imlach traded him away to punish Sittler.

 

[Martin Skoula]

90's is pretty darn recent.
Many of us here remember the 60's.
But you're correct, no winners on this current team.

1994 was 30 years ago, Rielly was born in 94

 

[647Hockey]

Good for him, he’s an elite goal scorer in the regular season

Imagine adding Stankoven and Johnson on ELCs instead the likes of Vesey, Jumbo, Ritchie, Boyd, Kampf, Jarnkrok, Gregor etc. Fact is this team has sucked at drafting and developing since the draft was established.


One goal in his last 10 playoff games. I mean how bad do you have to play when you are that good at scoring goals?

And that one goal came from a perfect lob pass from Domi so AM could zoom in on a breakaway. If Domi didn't pull off the pass, he'd have zero goals.

 

[647Hockey]

Who cares about regular season?

This guy is supposed to be quasi generational, yet he is getting outscored by Sundin who had 26 goals in his first 53 playoff games whereas Matthews has 23 in 55 (in a higher scoring era with a way better team).

Elite players find a way to get it done as we see with any of the talents in the league, not Matthews though, 2 goals in his last 10 playoff games (16 goal pace) and 11 in his last 30 playoff games (30 goal pace).

Exactly.

I forget who it was but yesterday or day before someone here was ragging on Sundin being less than a pt/game player. Different teams and era. Sundin played most of his career in rock bottom scoring era and his best linemates were a combo of aging Steve Thomas and Mogilny. And then Hoglund and Ponikrovsky. I think there were times Tie Domi even played his RW. No joke. And Sundin was still consistent getting around 75-80 pts/yr for 13 years in a row. And playoff time, consistent to his regular season stats.

 

[WillNy29]

90's is pretty darn recent.
Many of us here remember the 60's.
But you're correct, no winners on this current team.

see the difference is those 60s teams won so they dont fall under the loser category of Gilmour, clark, sundin, marner etc.

 

[notbias]

Florida getting destroyed by McDavid and Tkachuk trying to do something about it (and failing) is not the same as Matthews getting shut down by a bottom feeder and then punked by Ben Chiarot. You will have to try another bad faith argument.

How does Matthews get shut down and also get bullied? Not sure but this is the guy MLSE placed their faith in. But he's not alone, Marner victimized by Florida too. It's almost like contextless clips are worthless, kind of like advanced stats.

This was the request

Someone post the video clip of him smirking while being ragdolled please…….

I thought they were talking about the McDavid clip where it happens to him

I have no clue what insane rant you're going on

 

[ToneDog]

naw a cup or bust at this point semi finals means f*** all.

I don't i found coming back from 4-1 down against tampa and 2-1 down with a minute left or whatever it was was pretty fun. Same with forcing game this year. but at the end of the day the real fun is winning the cup i dont care anymore about semi finals or whatever.

Damn you have set the bar high. Some of us just want to see the team go further and show progress. If I were you, I'd find something else to do because this team may never win in your lifetime either.

 

[Sypher04]

Are you forgetting the reference point?

Go back to 2016 after we drafted Matthews. The optimism around this organization was unlike anything ever seen. After the Washington series hockey was booming in Toronto like never before.

To go from that point to one first round win in 8 years and never winning more than 5 games in the playoffs - you can't even put it into words how big of a letdown that is.

To say our guys "get more shit than they deserve" is just plain wrong. The results they've given is way more than enough reason for fans to voice their displeasure.

I stand by what I said.
They deserve criticism, but it’s often over the top.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Damn you have set the high bar. Some of us just want to see the team go further and show progress. If I were you, I'd find something else to do because this team may never win in your lifetime either.

That's where the bar should be set, especially considering this is arguably the most talented core in franchise history.

It's certainly the most talented core of the last 25 years, and I know that because I've seen nearly every game for 25 years.

Matthews Marner Nylander and Rielly is the most talented core they have arguably ever had, certainly in the last 25 years.

It is cup or bust and it should be.

Until Matthews is gone or retired.It's cup or bust

 

[ToneDog]

That's where the bar should be set, especially considering this is arguably the most talented core in franchise history.

It's certainly the most talented core of the last 25 years, and I know that because I've seen nearly every game for 25 years.

Matthews Marner Nylander and Rielly is the most talented core they have arguably ever had, certainly in the last 25 years.

It is cup or bust and it should be.

Until Matthews is gone or retired.It's cup or bust

Cup or bust for a team that is 1 and 8 in 9 playoff series? That is unrealistic. Cup or bust when you've actually done something in the playoffs like Dallas, Edmonton or NYR. The most talented core in the last 25 years is not more than the sum of it's parts and Tavares is done. Thinking this team is a serious contender and blowing assets at the TDL only to fail again is what has keeping this team from advancing further in the playoffs IMO. Anybody looking at this team objectively sees a team with too many holes to seriously contend.

As for Matthews, great player but he has proven he cannot carry the mail in the playoffs. He can win you a game or two in a series but he has never dominated a series like others have. The same goes for the other two. Sorry, this team is not a serious contender and the proof is in the pudding. The sooner Leafs management realize it, the sooner they can get back on track. Look at the Rangers writing to the fans years ago that they needed to take a step back and since then they win the Pres. Trophy and get to the ECF a couple of time while we continue to be punted in round #1. Sorry not buying the bullshit some are peddling that losing n round #1 is the same as losing in the SCF. Name me a team that went 1 and 8 in the playoffs and went on to win a SC?

 

[ToneDog]

I stand by what I said.
They deserve criticism, but it’s often over the top.

1 and 8 in playoffs for the most talented core of the last 25 years which demanded every last penny. They deserve all the criticism they get and more. When you refuse to give a discount, you better deliver or you will hear it. This core is f***ing rotten and should be blown up.

 

[Nineteen67]

naw a cup or bust at this point semi finals means f*** all.

I don't i found coming back from 4-1 down against tampa and 2-1 down with a minute left or whatever it was was pretty fun. Same with forcing game this year. but at the end of the day the real fun is winning the cup i dont care anymore about semi finals or whatever.

Winning a Cup in those days wasn't a realistic expectation, but they worked extremely hard and leadership.

Today it’s highly unlikely that they make to the semis, but with effort they could at least be entertaining like they were in games 5-7 this year. Expecting Domi to carry this team to a semi-final is a little too much to ask with all high price players consuming so much ice time.

 

[ULF_55]

1994 was 30 years ago, Rielly was born in 94

Yep, my kids are all older than Rielly.

 

[robertmac43]

Sundin has more then one playoff round win.. Give me that.

 

[Al14]

1 and 8 in playoffs for the most talented core of the last 25 years which demanded every last penny. They deserve all the criticism they get and more. When you refuse to give a discount, you better deliver or you will hear it. This core is f***ing rotten and should be blown up.

Exactly !!!

I don't care for any individual accomplishments when the team itself can't win shit in the playoffs.

It should be all about the crest on the front of the jerseys, AND NOT, the names on the back of them.

The entire core of our Leafs are overpaid, and the fact that they don't go anywhere in the playoffs is PROOF enough for me.

The entire core 5 take more pride in GETTING PAID than they do in winning playoff series.

If I were signing those paychecks, every single one of them would be up for sale to the other 31 teams. Eight years, with only 1 playoff series win, would have been the last straw for me this spring.

Getting pennies on the dollar for these under performing playoff disasters would be satisfying knowing that they took my money and delivered to me absolutely NOTHING IN RETURN !!!

Goodbye and good riddance to Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, and Rielly !!!

Now, having said the above, all could be forgiven if at least Marner was traded in order to better balance the use of the Cap. Marner is a great regular season performer that is TOO SCARED to play the way that is required to win in the playoffs.

That gaff that saw Swayman give up the puck at the side of the net should have been easily deposited by Marner into the empty net. Instead, because he might have taken a hit scoring a goal, he just picked it up and did nothing of value with the turnover. Someone like Gilmour, Sundin, or Sittler, would have easily scored on that play.

JMHO while I'm still angry and pissed !!!

 

[Nineteen67]

Exactly !!!

I don't care for any individual accomplishments when the team itself can't win shit in the playoffs.

It should be all about the crest on the front of the jerseys, AND NOT, the names on the back of them.

The entire core of our Leafs are overpaid, and the fact that they don't go anywhere in the playoffs is PROOF enough for me.

The entire core 5 take more pride in GETTING PAID than they do in winning playoff series.

If I were signing those paychecks, every single one of them would be up for sale to the other 31 teams. Eight years, with only 1 playoff series win, would have been the last straw for me this spring.

Getting pennies on the dollar for these under performing playoff disasters would be satisfying knowing that they took my money and delivered to me absolutely NOTHING IN RETURN !!!

Goodbye and good riddance to Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, and Rielly !!!

Now, having said the above, all could be forgiven if at least Marner was traded in order to better balance the use of the Cap. Marner is a great regular season performer that is TOO SCARED to play the way that is required to win in the playoffs.

That gaff that saw Swayman give up the puck at the side of the net should have been easily deposited by Marner into the empty net. Instead, because he might have taken a hit scoring a goal, he just picked it up and did nothing of value with the turnover. Someone like Gilmour, Sundin, or Sittler, would have easily scored on that play.

JMHO while I'm stilled angry and pissed !!!

I don’t know if Gilmour or Sundin would have scored, but they would have attempted to wrap in the net and they don’t near edge work ability the Marner has.
If that opportunity was in Max Domi’s hands, they may have won the series.

 

[ULF_55]

see the difference is those 60s teams won so they dont fall under the loser category of Gilmour, clark, sundin, marner etc.

Pretty well, if a Leafs want to win the Cup, they have to put another jersey on top ... Kessel, Gunnarsson, Bozak, Kadri all on the same Leafs team ... obviously weren't the issue.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I stand by what I said.
They deserve criticism, but it’s often over the top.

Agreed, but everything on the internet is "over the top".

The times we live in.

At least in the days of low-res, black-and-white 21" TVs you didn't get to see a twice-life-sized shot of a guy picking his nose in glorious 4K colour, as I did watching the football yesterday.

 

[Nineteen67]

That's where the bar should be set, especially considering this is arguably the most talented core in franchise history.

It's certainly the most talented core of the last 25 years, and I know that because I've seen nearly every game for 25 years.

Matthews Marner Nylander and Rielly is the most talented core they have arguably ever had, certainly in the last 25 years.

It is cup or bust and it should be.

Until Matthews is gone or retired.It's cup or bust

Hasn’t the core demonstrated that they’re actually not as talented as people think? They have half the sport mastered but that other half is lacking.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Matthews doesn't need a cup to be the best Leafs player of all time.

Best Leafs player and best Leafs team are two different things. One is measured by individual awards. The other has the names of everyone associated with the team on it.

Matthews will pass Sundin's goal scoring record next year.

It's only a matter of time he passes Sundin in total points as well. By the time Matthews is finished playing here his statue on legends row will already be made. Knowing Matthews he'll insist it's of pure gold.

Matthews is the only player on the team who should be considered untouchable.

Unless another sixty goal scoring franchise centre is the return. Everyone else on the team can pound pavement. It's not too late to trade those guys and surround Matthews with the right character players so he can still win a cup.

Not that he needs it to cement his status as the best Leafs player of all time or anything though.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

It's not too late to trade those guys and surround Matthews with the right character players so he can still win a cup.

Why would a character player join this team? Not only does everyone have a NMC, but the best player on the team only signs short term deals so he can remain the highest paid player in the league. Nothing Matthews or MLSE does has winning as a priority.