News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets

[PromisedLand]

The last few pages in this thread is just....

 

[Dekes For Days]

How can you say that considering we won 1 round in 7 years with them?

Because number of rounds the team won in the past doesn't actually tell you everything about everything like many people here seem to think it does.

You mean to tell me if we were to take their 22+ combined million and spend that on 3 other impact pieces, we wouldn't be able to win at least 1 round in 7 years?

You don't have 3 other impact pieces that cost 22m to spend it on.
Spending it on worse players that collectively provide less impact relative to cap hit wouldn't have helped our outcomes.

And, yes, they have (and are) significantly hampering our chances by being overpaid and not offering either a discount on cap hit, or signing long-term, so we can surround them with better talent. By taking short-term deals -- unlike the majority of other superstars who commit to 8 years -- they are continually upping their cap % at half the duration as other stars.

They're not hampering our chances, and they're not overpaid. Their contracts are consistent with history at time of signing, and they provide more impact than their cap hit since. They all signed terms that were pretty common for high-end post-ELC contracts, and only one of our core guys is reportedly looking to avoid the 8 year term, for pretty understandable reasons. For most players throughout history, signing for 8 year terms on their UFA contracts was a benefit to the player, but with the cap artificially suppressed below 50% and the cap about to skyrocket, we're in a pretty unique situation. It's too bad he's not looking for 8 years, but that doesn't mean we can't get value out of him or that we shouldn't sign him to a fair contract for that term. We'd still be getting the most valuable years.

 

[MacKaRant]

It's actually undeniable that Marner is a better player than Rantanen.

Coming here from Avs board so probably a little biased. However, Mikko Rantanen is #9 in NHL history in playoffs points per game: NHL Playoffs All-Time Points per Game Leaders

I tried to find Marner on the list, but I got tired of clicking "next page"

Saying all of this in jest, Marner's a great player, but seriously, Mikko is an amazing playoff performer, so I'd take him.

 

[The Management]

I was naively hopeful we'd get an answer on this Matthews contract in July, notwithstanding some reporters / pundits stating the parties would take their time.

 

[Racer88]

We should give a guy who put up the best pre-signing period for a UFA signing a legal contract in cap era history while playing half of his sample hurt an AAV that is consistent with that. We should theoretically be giving him the biggest UFA contract in the cap era, but we're not even doing close to that.

And hope that he is not hurt and lives up to that contract

 

[Apex Predator]

You guys are champs dealing with Jonas and James.

 

[IPS]

Coming here from Avs board so probably a little biased. However, Mikko Rantanen is #9 in NHL history in playoffs points per game: NHL Playoffs All-Time Points per Game Leaders

I tried to find Marner on the list, but I got tired of clicking "next page"

Saying all of this in jest, Marner's a great player, but seriously, Mikko is an amazing playoff performer, so I'd take him.

Not biased at all. I don't think there's a wrong choice between Marner and Rantanen - just which you prefer. Pretending they aren't comparable is what is biased and stupid.

 

[Dekes For Days]

And hope that he is not hurt and lives up to that contract

Yep. You obviously hope every player you sign stays healthy and lives up to and excels beyond their contract.
You have a better chance with at least the latter signing top tier players.

 

[therealkoho]

Not disingenuous at all. I stand by my statement.

You do know that every Leafs beat writer is throwing around those same figures

 

[therealkoho]

Doesn't AM getting credit for doing all this and more for playing the entire season with an injury affecting his skating and a wrist injury that limits his shooting and passing. For that based on all his fans he deserves 13.5+ for trying. He also states he wants to win a Stanley, that counts also, oh and it is reported by all the talking heads he loves TO, amazing.

We'll see how much he loves the big smoke if they tell him he only gets a 10% raise, seeing as he was overpaid on most of his last contract, he'd be on the first bus leaving town

 

[therealkoho]

He was hurt last summer and did not train properly and he ballooned coming into camp .. it took him 20-25 games to get back to game shape .. not saying he doesn't train hard but with his injury history it may again .. dude has a huge frame a big boned dude who can pack it on

Hurt? Is he one of those chronic types with the injuries not allowing him to do anything other than eat Mommas home cooking, but maybe what I should've said... see below

He was hurt last summer and did not train properly and he ballooned coming into camp .. it took him 20-25 games to get back to game shape .. not saying he doesn't train hard but with his injury history it may again .. dude has a huge frame a big boned dude who can pack it on

Hopefully the 13.5 he wants will be enough to motivate him enough to take hockey seriously start rehabbing his injuries immediately and treat the position he holds as a full time job.

To recap:

-centers are worth more than wingers, unless the winger is a Leaf player.

-goals are worth more than assists, unless the superior goal scorer is not a Leaf player.

-in which case superior penalty killing is the tie breaker due to defensive mindedness.

-but defending a 6 on 5 does not count like a 5 on 4 PK even if you score empty net goals, which we all know count for less than normal goals.

-5 on 5 production in the regular season is the gold standard, unless there’s an injury to the Leaf player which limits production.

-Then we move to a /60 or more favorable metric and shift away from less favorable raw points.

-Powerplay production is discounted since Oilers and Avalanche players tend to accumulate more points.

-Playoff production isn’t that important so we’ll throw out that whole category completely. Small sample size and whatnot, and lack of Leaf success.

-Stanley Cups? Not even worth talking about.

I do believe that someone actually suggested that playoff production doesn't matter because the players were no longer getting paid.

 

[andora]

Its amazing watching every year teams going 16 wins and looking at what they spend on their 4-9 forwards and hearing we cant possibly get the same impact from multiple players as one of our studs

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Coming here from Avs board so probably a little biased. However, Mikko Rantanen is #9 in NHL history in playoffs points per game: NHL Playoffs All-Time Points per Game Leaders

I tried to find Marner on the list, but I got tired of clicking "next page"

Saying all of this in jest, Marner's a great player, but seriously, Mikko is an amazing playoff performer, so I'd take him.

I need you to understand that there’s only 2 or 3 posters on this board that disagree with you. 99.999% of leaf fans (and hockey fans at large) agree with you.

 

[PromisedLand]

I really thought once Dubas was fired; there won't be any Dubas philosophy pushed around here but I stand corrected apparently....

#Frustrating!

 

[PromisedLand]

Coming here from Avs board so probably a little biased. However, Mikko Rantanen is #9 in NHL history in playoffs points per game: NHL Playoffs All-Time Points per Game Leaders

I tried to find Marner on the list, but I got tired of clicking "next page"

Saying all of this in jest, Marner's a great player, but seriously, Mikko is an amazing playoff performer, so I'd take him.

Rantanen was beast mode last season when Mack/Makar were out injured; No Landy and Kadri not with the Avs.

Rantanen also plays big in the playoffs and doesn't get pushed around much. Avs IMO would have won the 7th game if Nuke played 7th game and didn't pull the crap he did.

Avs got a cup out of their re-tool post ROR/Duchene era; Sakic knew what he was doing except for freakin' Malgin

 

[Niagara Bill]

I also find it strange that people accept random media personalities speculating about contract negotiations as fact, but that doesn't mean we should also add random speculation about Matthews' physical status to the mix as well. The important thing is that the team knows his status, and they would.

If he was not injured I am even more concerned.

 

[PromisedLand]

If he was not injured I am even more concerned.

Matthews' conditioning was garbage to start the season. Dude was huffing and puffing like a chain smoker after every shift. It didn't improve IMO as the season went on. Also, he looked slower on his skates compared to past seasons

 

[Gallagbi]

I really thought once Dubas was fired; there won't be any Dubas philosophy pushed around here but I stand corrected apparently....

#Frustrating!

Discussions around players have always happened here, it's basically what the board is built on. Then theres always been the deep dive on numbers to build on beliefs

 

[rocketman588]

Matthews' conditioning was garbage to start the season. Dude was huffing and puffing like a chain smoker after every shift. It didn't improve IMO as the season went on. Also, he looked slower on his skates compared to past seasons

I would hope he's not slacking on his conditioning while getting paid 11 mil a year.

I think our strength coach was an idiot last year. Every one of our players added a bunch of weight in one off season. It seemed to not pay off

 

[pcruz]

We disagree completely on Rantanen vs. Marner. Rantanen is a key part of the reason the Avs win in the playoffs, and have a Cup. Conversely, Marner is a key reason the Leafs lose in the playoffs, and only have 1 round to show for it in 7 years. I still can't believe the way Marner plays in the playoffs -- yes, he gets his points, but he is terrified to breach past the perimeter in most cases, and his costly turnovers and beer hockey moves, are borderline benchable offenses. Rantanen is a playoff beast, engages physically, and goes in the dirty areas, which is why his team has a Cup. I've watched both players with my own eyes for years and I'll never be convinced Marner is a better hockey player than Rantanan. As for the contracts, you brush it off as "Rantanen gets paid less" like it's nothing. It's one of the most important factors when evaluating assests in a hard cap NHL lol. Rantanen has been making 1.6 million less than Marner and I'm sure he'll be less of a headache to deal with when he next contract needs to be done as well.

Yes, it takes a team to win a Stanley Cup. Which is why players like Matthews and Marner are poison pills. Not only are they not the type of players who can hit another level in the playoffs (which makes it even more important to surround them with players who can) but they are so obsessed with making every last dollar that they can significantly hamper the Leafs chances of getting them better quality help.

Last time I checked the Avs didn't have that problem with their top players. MacKinnon, Rantanen, Makar, etc. all come to play -- and play big -- in the post season. If Marner and Matthews competed like them, we may have been to a Cup during their reign.

Matthews and Marner can't have it both ways. Either can fans who continue to position them as elite players who deserve to be among the highest paid (or in Matthews' case, the highest paid). We can't continue to beat this "our players are the best" drum then make excuses for them when they come up small in the playoffs or demand so much money we cannot build a better team around them. Pick a lane.

Can someone explain to me how the following is all true:


Rantanen is a key piece in the Avs having won in the playoffs and having a Cup.

MacKinnon carried the Avs to a Cup win and is the biggest reason they won, therefore he deserves the biggest contract in NHL history without any piece of individual hardware.

Makar led the Avs in scoring in their playoff run despite being a defenseman.


Seems like it's claimed that 3 different players are the key to the Avs winning, depending on who is most convenient to attribute the plaudits to.


It is also interesting to note that despite these 3 being the key players, it's also claimed that Kadri and Toews are also key to the team having won.

And at the same time, the Toronto players are lambasted for not having won despite the team not having a Kadri or Toews on the team.....

At times, it's claimed that the 4 here make too much money on the cap, but they forget that Naz was on this team and was traded away by management for Kerfoot....

Also, that Brodie is to Toronto what Toews was to Colorado, but hasn't been nearly as strong as a 2nd defenseman.

The core 4 score nearly half of all goals and generate about half of all offense for the team. Not over the span of a season, but over the span of all 7 years.

In fact, the core 4 generate almost half of all playoff scoring despite Tavares playing only 4 of the 7 playoffs with Toronto, and one of them a best of 5 games series...

The core players have done their job in the playoffs. They definitely could do more, and we should expect them to, but it's just utterly stupid to blast them for only generating half of the offense for the whole team year after year after year.
Last I checked, 18 skaters participate each game.
Last I checked, you want all 18 to perform their duties, and the core have done the (bare minimum expectations of) theirs.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If he was not injured I am even more concerned.

He was injured. But that's no reason to think he'll be perpetually injured moving forward.

 

[Racer88]

Can someone explain to me how the following is all true:


Rantanen is a key piece in the Avs having won in the playoffs and having a Cup.

MacKinnon carried the Avs to a Cup win and is the biggest reason they won, therefore he deserves the biggest contract in NHL history without any piece of individual hardware.

Makar led the Avs in scoring in their playoff run despite being a defenseman.


Seems like it's claimed that 3 different players are the key to the Avs winning, depending on who is most convenient to attribute the plaudits to.


It is also interesting to note that despite these 3 being the key players, it's also claimed that Kadri and Toews are also key to the team having won.

And at the same time, the Toronto players are lambasted for not having won despite the team not having a Kadri or Toews on the team.....

At times, it's claimed that the 4 here make too much money on the cap, but they forget that Naz was on this team and was traded away by management for Kerfoot....

Also, that Brodie is to Toronto what Toews was to Colorado, but hasn't been nearly as strong as a 2nd defenseman.

The core 4 score nearly half of all goals and generate about half of all offense for the team. Not over the span of a season, but over the span of all 7 years.

In fact, the core 4 generate almost half of all playoff scoring despite Tavares playing only 4 of the 7 playoffs with Toronto, and one of them a best of 5 games series...

The core players have done their job in the playoffs. They definitely could do more, and we should expect them to, but it's just utterly stupid to blast them for only generating half of the offense for the whole team year after year after year.
Last I checked, 18 skaters participate each game.
Last I checked, you want all 18 to perform their duties, and the core have done the (bare minimum expectations of) theirs.

Wasn’t it Matthews that had zero goals in the 5 games we lasted in the second round?

 

[Niagara Bill]

He was injured. But that's no reason to think he'll be perpetually injured moving forward.

Yes it is. Bad wrist, no solution yet announced! Bad back, no solution yet announced! Shoulder injuries, no solution announced!
The wrist seems chronic, more than once in 2 years. His greatest asset is affected. He had such incredible hand eye, quick stick and the most amazing wrist shot. Take that away and he is a 9m player, not 13. Affects faceoffs as a center as well.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Yes it is. Bad wrist, no solution yet announced! Bad back, no solution yet announced! Shoulder injuries, no solution announced!
The wrist seems chronic, more than once in 2 years. His greatest asset is affected. He had such incredible hand eye, quick stick and the most amazing wrist shot. Take that away and he is a 9m player, not 13. Affects faceoffs as a center as well.

But dekes knows that Matthews injury from last year is not chronic. Because he’s an employee.

But I do agree that if Matthews really is looking for a 3-4 year deal, he’s clearly betting on his health. Otherwise he’d take the 8 year deal in a heartbeat (Like literally everybody else).

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes it is. Bad wrist, no solution yet announced! Bad back, no solution yet announced! Shoulder injuries, no solution announced!

Not sure where you got bad back and shoulder from, and there's no been no indication that his wrist injury is something that will continue past an offseason of healing.