News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets

[mjd1001]

Not only just one playoff round in 7 years for this unprecedented mix of super stars. They are yet to be the best team in the Atlantic/Northeast Division. It has been 23 years since the Leafs won their division. I know we finished top in that weird North-division n covid-times, but that was such a weird circumstance, I fail to take it seriously.

I think this will be the year for that, but this might be the ONLY year for them to win the division easily.

We all know Boston is on the way down, Tampa is aging quickly, and Buffalo and Ottawa aren't ready to compete for the division yet. Its Toronto and whatever Florida is going to be this year for the division.

2 years from now Ottawa and Buffalo are going to be in the mix and probably VERY tough, and Florida will still be what they are. Tornoto could go from a very easy division win this year to fighting all season for a top-3 spot in the division the following year.

 

[Sypher04]

I think this will be the year for that, but this might be the ONLY year for them to win the division easily.

We all know Boston is on the way down, Tampa is aging quickly, and Buffalo and Ottawa aren't ready to compete for the division yet. Its Toronto and whatever Florida is going to be this year for the division.

2 years from now Ottawa and Buffalo are going to be in the mix and probably VERY tough, and Florida will still be what they are. Tornoto could go from a very easy division win this year to fighting all season for a top-3 spot in the division the following year.

Maybe. Personally I’m not high on Ottawa and Buffalo’s core players. I’m not convinced they have the kind of upward trajectory people believe they do.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Of course AM is questioned, and many many people question his leadershipthat is why he was NOT made captain. And yes JT is now over paid and hoping down hill. That is not to say he isn't great guy and player, but not worth what he is getting. Fact..JT came to The Leafs, was made captain. AM was not, so do not look so dumb denying it.
Do we need to list the players who teams committed to and never lived up to their promise.
When that happens it takes years to recover, and in the end Pitt will pay for Crisby and Malkin deals.
The only reason the need to know about AM injury is my team is trying to negotiate a contract, and lost the right to trade him July 1, and our biggest asset is potentially going down the tubes...year 57...and if we fu the dollars and term and he continues his slide or injury problem then I likely will never see Stanley come to Toronto. Only guys like you who love individual players more than the team and Gary Bettman will be happy when 56 becomes 66.

Nobody important questions Matthews or his leadership. Just a few angry fans on the internet, for reasons that don't actually have anything to do with Matthews' leadership. Tavares was not overpaid, and the fact that this career captain was chosen to be captain instead of a 21 year old doesn't say anything you claim it does.

Lots of teams commit to players and the players don't live up to it. It can happen with literally anybody. But that doesn't stop you from signing players, and that's much less likely to be the result when you're signing one of the best players in the world. In the end Pittsburgh will pay for signing Crosby and Malkin? Yeah, they paid real bad by getting long, dominant careers out of them and multiple cups.

The team is trying to negotiate a contract. That means they have to know about his health, and they do. That doesn't mean you have to know anything in the middle of the offseason. I love the team more than any individual player. That's why I want to keep players who help my team like Matthews.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Maybe. Personally I’m not high on Ottawa and Buffalo’s core players. I’m not convinced they have the kind of upward trajectory people believe they do.

I think Buffalo is good but the goaltending position is the biggest concern.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Nobody important questions Matthews or his leadership. Just a few angry fans on the internet, for reasons that don't actually have anything to do with Matthews' leadership. Tavares was not overpaid, and the fact that this career captain was chosen to be captain instead of a 21 year old doesn't say anything you claim it does.

Lots of teams commit to players and the players don't live up to it. It can happen with literally anybody. But that doesn't stop you from signing players, and that's much less likely to be the result when you're signing one of the best players in the world. In the end Pittsburgh will pay for signing Crosby and Malkin? Yeah, they paid real bad by getting long, dominant careers out of them and multiple cups.

The team is trying to negotiate a contract. That means they have to know about his health, and they do. That doesn't mean you have to know anything in the middle of the offseason. I love the team more than any individual player. That's why I want to keep players who help my team like Matthews.

You trust the Leafs too much, and they have been wrong too many times in 56 years. You think they know about his health...you have no idea. How old was Crosby when he was captain.
I hope you and Dubas enjoy Pitt together. You appear to be his mouthpiece. Only time will tell if AM continues to develop intestinal fortitude, but there are signs that say he may not. Those signs were never there with Crosby, or McDavid, or Sittler, or Salming, or Orr, or Clark, or Horton, or Trottier, or Keon, or Lafleur, or Robinson, or Howe, or many others.
Giving a young man $100 000,000 is risky.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You think they know about his health...you have no idea.

Of course we know the Leafs know about his health. They have all of his medical records.

How old was Crosby when he was captain.

Irrelevant. Different teams approach things in different ways, and Pittsburgh didn't really have the same kind of older career captain alternatives.

Only time will tell if AM continues to develop intestinal fortitude, but there are signs that say he may not. Those signs were never there with Crosby, or McDavid, or Sittler, or Salming, or Orr, or Clark, or Horton, or Trottier, or Keon, or Lafleur, or Robinson, or Howe, or many others.

Matthews has plenty of "intestinal fortitude". He's no different than any of those names you hold up.

Giving a young man $100 000,000 is risky.

Giving a top tier player the money he earned is less risky than most alternatives.

 

[Cleetus]

I think Buffalo is good but the goaltending position is the biggest concern.

I agree, but I do think they found there guy in Levi..... lots of upside for sure

 

[Niagara Bill]

Of course we know the Leafs know about his health. They have all of his medical records.

Irrelevant. Different teams approach things in different ways, and Pittsburgh didn't really have the same kind of older career captain alternatives.

Matthews has plenty of "intestinal fortitude". He's no different than any of those names you hold up.

Giving a top tier player the money he earned is less risky than most alternatives.

Not sure if your last name is Dubas or Matthews, but those rose colored glasses need to be cleaned.
Your top tier player has not earned what he is asking for. The Leafs are paying forward for potential. I am sure if he suddenly becomes a 75 point guy he will not be handing money back. And if that happens you can kiss Stanley goodbye for another 10 years.
You only show interest and concern for AM , not the Leafs. This is a team game and it takes a lot for a 13.5m to take that money and promise to do more to make up for the lack of credible 3rd line players. We will lose WN over AM contract. He had better be able to score 70 goals to make up for the lose.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Your top tier player has not earned what he is asking for. The Leafs are paying forward for potential. I am sure if he suddenly becomes a 75 point guy he will not be handing money back. And if that happens you can kiss Stanley goodbye for another 10 years.
You only show interest and concern for AM , not the Leafs. This is a team game and it takes a lot for a 13.5m to take that money and promise to do more to make up for the lack of credible 3rd line players. We will lose WN over AM contract. He had better be able to score 70 goals to make up for the lose.

Matthews has earned what he's reportedly asking for. Pretty easily. His pre-signing period is tops in the cap era for a UFA signing a currently legal contract.
There's nothing to indicate that he'll randomly become a 75 point player. That's just fear-mongering.
My concern is for the Leafs. That's why I want to keep one of the best players to ever put on this jersey, that helps our team. His impact is greater than his cap hit.
Nylander remaining with the team has nothing to do with Matthews. We should be keeping and can keep both.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Matthews has earned what he's reportedly asking for. Pretty easily. His pre-signing period is tops in the cap era for a UFA signing a currently legal contract.
There's nothing to indicate that he'll randomly become a 75 point player. That's just fear-mongering.
My concern is for the Leafs. That's why I want to keep one of the best players to ever put on this jersey, that helps our team. His impact is greater than his cap hit.
Nylander remaining with the team has nothing to do with Matthews. We should be keeping and can keep both.

, as an agent you are certainly single minded. As a fan, not so much.
Have a good night

 

[Boxscore]

Nobody important questions Matthews or his leadership. Just a few angry fans on the internet, for reasons that don't actually have anything to do with Matthews' leadership. Tavares was not overpaid, and the fact that this career captain was chosen to be captain instead of a 21 year old doesn't say anything you claim it does.

Complete nonsense. The fact that the Leafs brought Tavares in, gave him the 2nd largest cap hit in the NHL behind McDavid, and immediately put the C on his chest, is a clear indication the team wasn't fully convinced Matthews was a gifted leader. Do you truly think if the Pens or Hawks signed Tavares, he was getting the C ahead of a 21 year old Crosby or Toews? Laughable.

Tavares was an irrelevant captain on an Islanders squad that didn't win a thing, yet ironically started playing better as soon as Tavares left. And he absolutely was overpaid. The Leafs gave him the 2nd highest cap hit in the world when his career high in points was 86 and his resume was blank. The following summer, Kucherov signed for 9.5 x 8 with the Bolts after winning the Hart and scoring 126. Tavares was overpaid by close to 2 million... and overpaid by a team that already had 3 budding offensive stars, including a supposed elite, #1 center and face of the franchise in Matthews. The Tavares signing was a disaster on multiple levels.

Lots of teams commit to players and the players don't live up to it. It can happen with literally anybody. But that doesn't stop you from signing players, and that's much less likely to be the result when you're signing one of the best players in the world. In the end Pittsburgh will pay for signing Crosby and Malkin? Yeah, they paid real bad by getting long, dominant cdareers out of them and multiple cups.

This is true. But Matthews and Marner aren't Crosby and Malkin, never were, and never will be. And all players have a price. Just because 34 and 16 are the best players on the Leafs, doesn't mean they automatically deserve to be paid more than MacKinnon and Pastrnak. Especially when they can't win anything in the playoffs after 7 years.

The team is trying to negotiate a contract. That means they have to know about his health, and they do. That doesn't mean you have to know anything in the middle of the offseason. I love the team more than any individual player. That's why I want to keep players who help my team like Matthews.

Again, this is true. The first part at least. I do not expect the Leafs to dump Matthews' x-rays online or go into details about his injuries just to throw curious fans a bone. No argument there. But, I do not believe you like the Leafs more than Matthews and Marner. At least it doesn't seem like it. And, yes, the Leafs should keep Matthews. But there is a breaking point. And loyalty and commitment work both ways -- the Leafs cannot continue to pay Matthews insane amounts of money, strictly on his terms, then sit idle and watch him come of short year after year in the playoffs. It's time for Matthews to commit long-term to the team and take a bit less for the betterment of the organization.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The fact that the Leafs brought Tavares in, gave him the 2nd largest cap hit in the NHL behind McDavid, and immediately put the C on his chest, is a clear indication the team wasn't fully convinced Matthews was a gifted leader.

They didn't immediately give the C to Tavares. Tavares got the C in 2019.
And no, signing Tavares to a historically average UFA contract doesn't say anything about Matthews' leadership.

Tavares was an irrelevant captain on an Islanders squad that didn't win a thing, yet ironically started playing better as soon as Tavares left.

More accurately, they started getting better results when their defensive players matured, and they got goaltending that helped cover all of their flaws.

The following summer, Kucherov signed for 9.5 x 8 with the Bolts after winning the Hart and scoring 126.

Kucherov signed the year before. Was also an RFA.

This is true. But Matthews and Marner aren't Crosby and Malkin, never were, and never will be.

They're all among the best players in the league. Same thing applies. You sign them, even if they've had some injuries in the past.

Just because 34 and 16 are the best players on the Leafs, doesn't mean they automatically deserve to be paid more than MacKinnon and Pastrnak.

No, being better players than Mackinnon and Pastrnak through their respective pre-signing periods means they deserve to be paid more than Mackinnon and Pastrnak.

Again, this is true. The first part at least. I do not expect the Leafs to dump Matthews' x-rays online or go into details about his injuries just to throw curious fans a bone. No argument there. But, I do not believe you like the Leafs more than Matthews and Marner. At least it doesn't seem like it. And, yes, the Leafs should keep Matthews. But there is a breaking point. And loyalty and commitment work both ways -- the Leafs cannot continue to pay Matthews insane amounts of money, strictly on his terms, then sit idle and watch him come of short year after year in the playoffs.

Of course I like the Leafs more than Matthews and Marner. Why would I care about some random people? I care about keeping them because I care about keeping top tier players that make my team better. The Leafs can continue to pay Matthews appropriate amounts consistent with cap era history, and will be better off doing it than not.

 

[Boxscore]

Kucherov signed the year before. Was also an RFA.

Tavares signed on July 1st, 2018 and Kucherov signed on July 10, 2018. So we're both wrong. But Kucherov agreed to an extension for 9.5 x 8, foregoing free agency, 9 days after Tavares signed for 11. And Kucherov was fresh off a 100 point season when he signed. As for Matthews and Marner, they have done nothing that warrants them being paid more than MacKinnon and Pastrnak on their next deals. And there's zero justification for Marner being paid more than Matthew Tkachuk as well, let alone Pastrnak.

You keep talking about Matthews and Marner like they have an outstanding playoff pedigree. Yes, they are great regular season players, but paying them insane money (I consider them overpayments based on comparable deals, lack of term, plus their lack of playoff success) has proven to be a recipe for failure. I'm not sure how you can keep beating the drum for the Leafs to continue down this path instead of sharing the opinion that 34 and 16 should start showing some loyalty to the team, instead of scratching and clawing for every possible dollar on short-term deals.

 

[IPS]

I think this will be the year for that, but this might be the ONLY year for them to win the division easily.

We all know Boston is on the way down, Tampa is aging quickly, and Buffalo and Ottawa aren't ready to compete for the division yet. Its Toronto and whatever Florida is going to be this year for the division.

2 years from now Ottawa and Buffalo are going to be in the mix and probably VERY tough, and Florida will still be what they are. Tornoto could go from a very easy division win this year to fighting all season for a top-3 spot in the division the following year.

The Leafs are definitely gonna be the best on-paper team in the division. Next year should be good but the year after it's going to be interesting what the general look of the team will be like with the new raises and the possible subtraction of Nylander. A huge year next year and a step back the year after is probably gonna happen. Realistically you'd tough it out until Tavares if off the books and hope you can get the big 3 into somewhat workable contracts if the plan really is to keep them.

 

[Stephen]

The Leafs are definitely gonna be the best on-paper team in the division. Next year should be good but the year after it's going to be interesting what the general look of the team will be like with the new raises and the possible subtraction of Nylander. A huge year next year and a step back the year after is probably gonna happen. Realistically you'd tough it out until Tavares if off the books and hope you can get the big 3 into somewhat workable contracts if the plan really is to keep them.

Tavares' contract also happens to end the year Draisaitl, Sheshterkin and Rantanen come up. I'm not saying to go chasing after big names necessarily, but if Nylander is gone and Tavares comes off the books, the Leafs will have a lot of flexibility opening up in two years time.

 

[Racer88]

Of course we know the Leafs know about his health. They have all of his medical records.

Irrelevant. Different teams approach things in different ways, and Pittsburgh didn't really have the same kind of older career captain alternatives.

Matthews has plenty of "intestinal fortitude". He's no different than any of those names you hold up.

Giving a top tier player the money he earned is less risky than most alternatives.

Anyone that has watched him get ragdolled by various plays and fail to stand up for himself would argue about his intestinal fortitude

 

[Dekes For Days]

Tavares signed on July 1st, 2018 and Kucherov signed on July 10, 2018. So we're both wrong.

No, that's exactly what I said. You said he signed in 2019 after his big season. I noted that he signed the year before that. Kucherov was also an RFA, not a UFA, and for the record, cherry picking individuals with great contracts you like isn't how you properly evaluate if somebody was overpaid.

As for Matthews and Marner, they have done nothing that warrants them being paid more than MacKinnon and Pastrnak on their next deals. And there's zero justification for Marner being paid more than Matthew Tkachuk as well, let alone Pastrnak.

Matthews and Marner have done everything to be worth more than those guys at time of signing. Over the 3 years prior to signing, they were better 5v5 producers than all of them (many by quite a bit), while producing similarly if not better on the PP, being much better defensively, and bringing additional things like PK impacts.

You keep talking about Matthews and Marner like they have an outstanding playoff pedigree.

No, I just recognize how misleading and misused so-called "playoff pedigree" can be when comparing players across teams, and I've looked into how much it actually factors into contracts. Most people's evaluation of how somebody performed in the playoffs is how many raw points they got, with zero of the context or considerations that's necessary for properly understanding what that production means, how it was formed, and how much of it is attributable to the individual.

Yes, they are great regular season players, but paying them insane money (I consider them overpayments based on comparable deals, lack of term, plus their lack of playoff success) has proven to be a recipe for failure.

It hasn't proven to be a recipe for failure at all. We've been a top tier team under this configuration.

Anyone that has watched him get ragdolled by various plays and fail to stand up for himself would argue about his intestinal fortitude

He didn't get "ragdolled" lol. Such wild exaggerations. He stands up for himself plenty, but some people can't seem to accept that your best goal scorer fighting with already injured wrists is not what's best for the team.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

No, that's exactly what I said. You said he signed in 2019 after his big season. I noted that he signed the year before that. Kucherov was also an RFA, not a UFA, and for the record, cherry picking individuals with great contracts you like isn't how you properly evaluate if somebody was overpaid.

I don't know Dekes...

Never mind Tavares, I've never understood how the Kucherov contract makes sense in relation to Matthews post elc contract.

Why don't we compare Matthews to Kucherov, a 100-point forward, on his 3rd NHL contract with more leverage and rights? His contract starts the same year as Matthews, buys 7 UFA years, and is only 9.5m per year. What justification does Matthews have for more?

 

[ACC1224]

Anyone that has watched him get ragdolled by various plays and fail to stand up for himself would argue about his intestinal fortitude

Definitely his greatest weakness.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Never mind Tavares, I've never understood how the Kucherov contract makes sense in relation to Matthews post elc contract.

That's because you're trying to compare a post-ELC contract to a non post-ELC contract, and the methodology you use for comparing contracts in general is already wrong, before even getting into the incomparability of those two very different types of contracts.

Well, you're not arguing with me Dekes, you're arguing with yourself from 2018.

I'm sure there are things that I said about contracts 5 years ago that were wrong, as I just blindly accepted many of the common claims about how they worked back then, but no, I'm debating with you, because I updated my position 5 years ago when I got new information and evidence that proved it wrong, while you did not. Your claims about me and what I do are all false. That was the only time my position changed, and the only reason is because that's what the evidence said.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

That's because you're trying to compare a post-ELC contract to a non post-ELC contract, and the methodology you use for comparing contracts in general is already completely wrong, before even getting into the incomparability of those two very different types of contracts.

Well, you're not arguing with me Dekes, you're arguing with yourself from 2018. Because that's a direct quote from you.

This seems to be a pattern. You give evaluations of our players at fair market value, but when they get much more than that you do a 180 and rationalize the overpayments. You defend management no matter what, and you'll skew the data how ever you need to in order to accomplish that.

I don't have any idea how we got to a place where Matthews at 13.5x4/5 is reasonable in any way whatsoever. There is such a massive cultural problem on this team.

 

[ULF_55]

Well, you're not arguing with me Dekes, you're arguing with yourself from 2018. Because that's a direct quote from you.

This seems to be a pattern. You give evaluations of our players at fair market value, but when they get much more than that you do a 180 and rationalize the overpayments. You defend management no matter what, and you'll skew the data how ever you need to in order to accomplish that.

I don't have any idea how we got to a place where Matthews at 13.5x4/5 is reasonable in any way whatsoever. There is such a massive cultural problem on this team.

Give him MacKinnon % against the projected Cap of 87.7 * 15.27%, minus .5% for every year less than 8.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think Buffalo is good but the goaltending position is the biggest concern.

I like the future of their goalies with U-P L and Levi. If one of them hits they're set for when their window opens.

 

[uncleben]

Bring it back on topic or feel free to leave the thread.

 

[supermann_98]

I thought it was a different wrist each time right?

Both his wrists seem to be a little limp, but not enough to hone his golf game in the off season. I hurt my wrist too when I shank a 7-iron into a huge divot in the fairway, but I'm not being paid $12m to ensure my wrists are healthy for the people that cut my cheques