News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets

[Dekes For Days]

I am not judging on team success, I am judging on their personal lack of success.

That's just a fancy way of saying you're judging on team success. The only personal success they're lacking thus far is team playoff success.

Why did their buddy Dubas feel every season and every playoff season the great need to inject leadership.

High character individuals are always targeted by teams, and especially so when the majority of your core is quite young, and when you're adding to a team mid-season. They also tend to be either some of the best players available at the deadline, or the players nearing the end of their career who are willing to take less to go to a destination in the offseason, who we'd want to target anyway. That doesn't equate to Matthews being a bad leader.

They rejected O Reilly last yr. when he came and tried to motivate the team.

Lol. No they didn't. What are you even talking about.

You need to rewatch a few of those games, watch how AM reacts, sulking thru a number of games when he did not take the opening face-off.

Good lord. You imagining Matthews making some face and arbitrarily concluding the reasons for it based on nothing is not an argument. I'm not sure why anybody would think somebody would care about taking a faceoff, but the funniest part is that the number of faceoffs Matthews took pre and post deadline didn't even meaningfully change.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I know for a fact that is not true.

No you don't, don't lie you aren't around the team.

 

[IPS]

You don't really know the leadership of any of these players.

And how exactly do you figure you know?

 

[LeafSteel]

And how exactly do you figure you know?

 

[geo25]

"Leadership" is not really a significant contract consideration for anybody, but both Matthews and Marner are leaders. You don't really know the leadership of any of these players.

Messier says hi! Neither of these players have or have demonstrated leadership imho. They arent able or willing to carry the team. What you talk about is more like wishful thinking. There are few leaders and when you see one its fairly obvious by their play, drive, character etc...Mckinnon is a leader. I would take him over Matthews in a heartbeat...

 

[egd27]

Because that's what the people who actually do know say.

Publicly

 

[TorMapleJays]

Messier says hi! Neither of these players have or have demonstrated leadership imho. They arent able or willing to carry the team. What you talk about is more like wishful thinking. There are few leaders and when you see one its fairly obvious by their play, drive, character etc...Mckinnon is a leader. I would take him over Matthews in a heartbeat...

Moose is also #3 all time in points.

 

[Dekes For Days]

And how exactly do you figure you know?

I'm not. I'm saying the people who would know would know, and they all speak highly of him as a leader.

Publicly

And privately.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm not. I'm saying the people who would know would know, and they all speak highly of him as a leader.

And privately.

Pardon?

How can privately be known?

That makes it public.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Pardon?
How can privately be known?

You should ask the individual who appears to be claiming that all of our players are publicly lying about Matthews with zero evidence.

 

[LeafSteel]

You should ask the individual who appears to be claiming that all of our players are publicly lying about Matthews with zero evidence.

Yasssss, because hockey players regularly and openly beef with their teammates in the NHL, and it’s a smart way to conduct oneself in a hockey mad market like Toronto.

MLSE would love and encourage nothing more than for its players to openly disparage teammates publicly, amiright?

Dekes, your naïveté would be refreshing if it weren’t so laughable, stale and boring.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yasssss, because hockey players regularly and openly beef with their teammates in the NHL, and it’s a smart way to conduct oneself in a hockey mad market like Toronto.
MLSE would love and encourage nothing more than for its players to openly disparage teammates publicly.

That's all completely besides the point. If somebody is going to come in and make claims that they know for a fact that our players and staff and management are making statements about Matthews publicly that are the opposite of what they say privately, the responsibility is on that person to provide some evidence. In fact, it's literally a rule on this site. You don't just take that random claim as fact because you want it to be true.

 

[notdoneyet]

Paying maybe a top 5 player in the league
The highest cap hit is exactly why the leafs wont win a cup with this guy.
Should have traded him when they had the chance

And for those who ask my top five
Mcdavid
Mackinnon
Draisitel
Pasternak
Makar

 

[LeafSteel]

That's all completely besides the point. If somebody is going to come in and make claims that they know for a fact that our players and staff and management are making statements about Matthews publicly that are the opposite of what they say privately, the responsibility is on that person to provide some evidence. In fact, it's literally a rule on this site. You don't just take that random claim as fact because you want it to be true.

This entire post is hyperbolic sewage.

All you ever say is that anything that disagrees with what you think is unsubstantiated and without merit, based solely in incorrect opinion.

Then you turn around and offer your opinion, dressed as indisputable fact and any time anyone calls you on it you have a hissy fit that dissolves into an argument around semantics.

Every
Single
Time

It’s why I can’t be bothered with you, really.

 

[Dekes For Days]

All you ever say is that anything that disagrees with what you think is unsubstantiated and without merit, based solely in incorrect opinion.
Then you turn around and offer your opinion, dressed as indisputable fact

His claim is not unsubstantiated based on opinion. His claim is unsubstantiated because he never even attempted to substantiate it. There's nothing to have an opinion on. There was no supporting evidence, no source, no context, or anything else. That is not anything.

I also have not claimed my opinion as fact at all. I haven't even based anything off of my personal opinion. I've based everything off of what everybody who would actually know the leadership of Matthews says. Contradicting claims about Matthews would require some evidence.

 

[LeafSteel]

His claim is not unsubstantiated based on opinion. His claim is unsubstantiated because he never even attempted to substantiate it. There's nothing to have an opinion on. There was no supporting evidence, no source, no context, or anything else. That is not anything.

I also have not claimed my opinion as fact at all. I haven't even based anything off of my personal opinion. I've based everything off of what everybody who would actually know the leadership of Matthews says. Contradicting claims about Matthews would require some evidence.

And you believe that unless someone has a direct quote from a player saying “man that Matthews is a complete a-hole”, you believe that Matthews is loved and revered by all?

Ok then. There really is a Neverland, and it’s between your ears.

Have a great day!

 

[Dekes For Days]

And you believe that unless someone has a direct quote from a player saying “man that Matthews is a complete a-hole”, you believe that Matthews is loved and revered by all?

No, I just don't take random claims about players with zero evidence on a message board as fact, especially when it contradicts what everybody that would know says.

 

[Sypher04]

Paying maybe a top 5 player in the league
The highest cap hit is exactly why the leafs wont win a cup with this guy.
Should have traded him when they had the chance

And for those who ask my top five
Mcdavid
Mackinnon
Draisitel
Pasternak
Makar

Even IF I grant you that MacKinnon is better, it’s marginal, and he’s the highest paid player in the league today by AAV. McDavid is 2 due to time alone and nothing else as he’s clearly the #1 player. Draisaitl is massively underpaid from like 6 years ago now. Pastrnak is not better than Matthews and his pay reflects that. Lastly, re: Makar, pay structures for top D haven’t yet caught up to the best forwards.

There are more factors (like when deal was signed) that go into whether a player is appropriate to be highest paid.

Assuming Matthews’ deal sets the new high mark this season, it’ll be eclipsed in short order by both McDavid and Draisaitl. These things are cyclical

 

[notdoneyet]

Even IF I grant you that MacKinnon is better, it’s marginal, and he’s the highest paid player in the league today by AAV. McDavid is 2 due to time alone and nothing else as he’s clearly the #1 player. Draisaitl is massively underpaid from like 6 years ago now. Pastrnak is not better than Matthews and his pay reflects that. Lastly, re: Makar, pay structures for top D haven’t yet caught up to the best forwards.

There are more factors (like when deal was signed) that go into whether a player is appropriate to be highest paid.

Assuming Matthews’ deal sets the new high mark this season, it’ll be eclipsed in short order by both McDavid and Draisaitl. These things are cyclical

Nylander is scoring as many goals and people expect him to take 4/5 million less
Marner outpoints him for most years. Im not sure he is our best player.

You can make all the excuses that we should overpay matthews but in reality he doesn’t deserve any where close to 13.5. He hasnt done anything to deserve more than he is making right now.

 

[egd27]

You should ask the individual who appears to be claiming that all of our players are publicly lying about Matthews with zero evidence.

The individual is not claiming that at all.

 

[Sypher04]

Nylander is scoring as many goals and people expect him to take 4/5 million less
Marner outpoints him for most years. Im not sure he is our best player.

You can make all the excuses that we should overpay matthews but in reality he doesn’t deserve any where close to 13.5. He hasnt done anything to deserve more than he is making right now.

First thing: You made a claim that he’s not a top 5 player (an opinion you’re entitled to) and that he shouldn’t be paid more than any of them and then proceeded to list your top 5 players. I merely offered the context as to why he will be paid more than several of them which is not in any way excuse making.

Second: using Nylander’s career best year compared against a dip well below Matthews’ usual level (largely due to injury) is a pretty disingenuous way of starting this discussion. Beyond that, the value in each player’s game is not solely derived from their point production, nor are they deployed the same way (for better or worse). I see Nylander having the argument for $10M and Matthews having the argument for high 12s to low 13s. Marner is between the two but closer to Matthews.

As for the assertion that Matthews hasn’t done anything to deserve more than he’s currently making that’s just objectively false when you look at contracts in the NHL.

As of right now we have no idea what Matthew will sign for. Time will tell. Hopefully it starts with a 12

 

[notdoneyet]

First thing: You made a claim that he’s not a top 5 player (an opinion you’re entitled to) and that he shouldn’t be paid more than any of them and then proceeded to list your top 5 players. I merely offered the context as to why he will be paid more than several of them which is not in any way excuse making.

Second: using Nylander’s career best year compared against a dip well below Matthews’ usual level (largely due to injury) is a pretty disingenuous way of starting this discussion. Beyond that, the value in each player’s game is not solely derived from their point production, nor are they deployed the same way (for better or worse). I see Nylander having the argument for $10M and Matthews having the argument for high 12s to low 13s. Marner is between the two but closer to Matthews.

As for the assertion that Matthews hasn’t done anything to deserve more than he’s currently making that’s just objectively false when you look at contracts in the NHL.

As of right now we have no idea what Matthew will sign for. Time will tell. Hopefully it starts with a 12

Sorry if i called you out that wasn’t my agenda. I am only going on what is being discussed and reported.
I guess my point is there is a reason Nylander hasn’t signed yet and that is most certainly the reason that matthews is asking for 13-14 million. Its my opinion that we will never win a cup with matthews. He just doesn’t give me the win at all cost vibes.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Paying maybe a top 5 player in the league
The highest cap hit is exactly why the leafs wont win a cup with this guy.
Should have traded him when they had the chance

And for those who ask my top five
Mcdavid
Mackinnon
Draisitel
Pasternak
Makar

Drai and Pasta are both pretty bad defensively but if you’re talking strictly offensive then you’re probably not far off .

 

[Stephen]

As for the assertion that Matthews hasn’t done anything to deserve more than he’s currently making that’s just objectively false when you look at contracts in the NHL.

This one is a bit of a conundrum.

Matthews full delivered on his $11.634 million cap hit in 2021-22 during his Hart, Rocket, Everything year, and I'd say emerging as that level of a player has certainly put him in line for being highest paid on the next deal, next in line to Mackinnon etc.

Where it kind of goes wonky on me is he had a very disappointing 2022-23 follow up season by his standards and once again did not really build on his playoff resume.

But why is Matthews' value impervious to down seasons, seemingly the only superstar pegged to the future cap increase, and the only guy not looking for full term security?

Don't get wrong, I'm still jumping at the chance to lock him up at $13.5 million or whatever has been reported. But when David Pastrnak has just surpassed Matthews single season best and only at $11.25 million on an 8 year deal months before Matthews negotiation?

We're definitely paying a Toronto only tax for a player whose value does not seem tied to any real precedent in the league.

 

[IPS]

This one is a bit of a conundrum.

Matthews full delivered on his $11.634 million cap hit in 2021-22 during his Hart, Rocket, Everything year, and I'd say emerging as that level of a player has certainly put him in line for being highest paid on the next deal, next in line to Mackinnon etc.

Where it kind of goes wonky on me is he had a very disappointing 2022-23 follow up season by his standards and once again did not really build on his playoff resume.

But why is Matthews' value impervious to down seasons, seemingly the only superstar pegged to the future cap increase, and the only guy not looking for full term security?

Don't get wrong, I'm still jumping at the chance to lock him up at $13.5 million or whatever has been reported. But when David Pastrnak has just surpassed Matthews single season best and only at $11.25 million on an 8 year deal months before Matthews negotiation?

We're definitely paying a Toronto only tax for a player whose value does not seem tied to any real precedent in the league.

Down years dont count
Playoff production doesnt count.
Injuries dont count

Its absolutely ridiculous how many exuses are made for Toronto players.