Auston Matthews 69 goals in 81 games, most goals scored since Lemieux in 1995-96

[cyris]

Honest question I know Centre is the glorified position but considering his nose for net have they ever tried to move him to wing? I mean say he doesn't have to worry about the centre's defensive ability then would he be even more dangerous?

I mean your paying him to score anyway why not give him even more opportunity to do exactly that then?

He is good at faceoffs and a strong two way player.

Why would you ever move a player from a more important position he excels at to a less important position?
Would he score more goals? Maybe but wouldn’t the team be worse overall with the downgrade at 1C?

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

It's around average in league history. Around the mid-point. This year is lower scoring than last year so far.

Last year was high. This year is slightly high. This is a high scoring era. We’ve spent 80 of our 106 year history at 3 goal or less average. Seeing it tick in the 3.10-3.20 range is on the high side. Not the highest ever, but historically, this is inarguably a high scoring era of hockey.

Statistically, Matthews is nearing the greatest even-strength goal scorers of all time. This is his 5th season leading the league in even-strength goals, the record is 6.

Matthews is disadvantaged by playing on a team that gets among the least powerplays every single season. Since Matthews entered the league, the Maple Leafs are 27th in PP opportunities/GP.

Ovechkin played in a lower scoring season than this one, yes, but he got way more PP time by playing on the team that got way more PP's + he plays more ice time on the PP than most other players did.

Ovechkin played 5:37 PP time per game in 07-08 when he scored 65.
Matthews plays 3:14 PP time per game this season.

So yes, higher scoring league than 07-08 but Ovechkin played 2 more mins every game on the PP.

Not even sure what you’re arguing anymore. Ovechkin probably didn’t peak as high as Mario, and his peak has been matched goal scoring wise by a couple handful of guys in league history. Both Hulls, Gretzky and Mario at the minimum.

Ovechkin is the GOAT because nobody was as consistent. His goal scoring never fell off, his goal scoring prime lasted until he was 37, and he never got hurt. So if you think we are witnessing the next coming of the greatest goal scoring prime of all time right now, I’d say statistically, it’s unlikely.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

And most importantly: 20.4% efficiency. He does this without forcing.

 

[Daximus]

Not even sure what you’re arguing anymore. Ovechkin probably didn’t peak as high as Mario, and his peak has been matched goal scoring wise by a couple handful of guys in league history. Both Hulls, Gretzky and Mario at the minimum.

Ovechkin is the GOAT because nobody was as consistent. His goal scoring never fell off, his goal scoring prime lasted until he was 37, and he never got hurt. So if you think we are witnessing the next coming of the greatest goal scoring prime of all time right now, I’d say statistically, it’s unlikely.

Yeah there's basically 3 ways you get to 800+ from what we have seen.

Have an insane peak like Gretzky, have insane longevity like Howe or have insane consistency like Ovi.

To put it into perspective if Matthews finishes this season with 70 goals, he's going to need 7 more 60 goal seasons to finish in the top 4 all time, 8 more 60 goal seasons to pass Ovi and 9 more 60 goal seasons to break 900. Or that equivalent over a long career.

He's got a really solid peak so far, not insane but solid. But he's going to need to basically have Ovi level consistency or Howe level longevity to push into 800+ territory. And to put that further into perspective he's already lost more time to injury at 26 than Ovi or Howe did in their entire careers.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Matthews is now the favorite for the HART

nope. Still Kucherov or MacKinnon ATM

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Best goal scorer since Ovi. Ridiculously underrated defensively.

The GOAT USA players imho: Modano, pick-em Chelios/Leetch, Kane. He's rapidly entering the conversation already at age 26.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Straw man

Fact man

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

This guy is an insanely good goal scorer. To be this good he must have practiced all day every day.. add in natural talent and the guy is disgusting.

He picks spots like Ovechkin did in his prime.

Ive also noticed by watching him, he is very strong on the puck and really good at stealing the puck from other players.

Been a longggg time since I seen a player be able to find little openings game after game after game.

Leafs would be a fun team to watch if they had some defense. Man they are atrocious in that area and leave their goalie out to dry like crazy.

I enjoy watching Mathews way more than McDavid.

This is true but somehow he does it very differently than everyone else. When my kid played hockey I would constantly tell him to be strong on his stick when fighting for the puck, on faceoffs, etc. How was I to know you could do it better with your hands 6" apart at the top of your stick and just being crafty?

 

[authentic]

Impressive goal scorer, without a doubt. A modern day Brett Hull.

Except he’s a big all around center instead of a winger who does nothing but score.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Yeah there's basically 3 ways you get to 800+ from what we have seen.

Have an insane peak like Gretzky, have insane longevity like Howe or have insane consistency like Ovi.

To put it into perspective if Matthews finishes this season with 70 goals, he's going to need 7 more 60 goal seasons to finish in the top 4 all time, 8 more 60 goal seasons to pass Ovi and 9 more 60 goal seasons to break 900. Or that equivalent over a long career.

He's got a really solid peak so far, not insane but solid. But he's going to need to basically have Ovi level consistency or Howe level longevity to push into 800+ territory. And to put that further into perspective he's already lost more time to injury at 26 than Ovi or Howe did in their entire careers.

Daunting but really shows how great the greats really are.

 

[authentic]

The last time scoring was this high consistently was the early to mid 90s. It’s gone up ~15% since OV nearly got 70 in 2008. I never tried to claim it was historically higher than the 80s. It’s just definitely higher than average.


His release definitely reminds me a lot of Brett Hull, or even pre-injury Stamkos. The way he gets to his spots and handles the puck down low in tight spaces always reminded me of prime Tavares a little bit.

This is canceled out by Matthews averaging barely more than half the powerplay time. Huge difference between being ranked 1 and 2 on a yearly basis on the powerplay and averaging anywhere from 50th-75th

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Yeah there's basically 3 ways you get to 800+ from what we have seen.

Have an insane peak like Gretzky, have insane longevity like Howe or have insane consistency like Ovi.

To put it into perspective if Matthews finishes this season with 70 goals, he's going to need 7 more 60 goal seasons to finish in the top 4 all time, 8 more 60 goal seasons to pass Ovi and 9 more 60 goal seasons to break 900. Or that equivalent over a long career.

He's got a really solid peak so far, not insane but solid. But he's going to need to basically have Ovi level consistency or Howe level longevity to push into 800+ territory. And to put that further into perspective he's already lost more time to injury at 26 than Ovi or Howe did in their entire careers.

I don't expect him to hit the all time record for a few reasons. Basically you need health luck, no more strikes, the effects of new move to load management, etc. I also don't think he's the type that will hang around just to beat it.

That said, I think you are making some of it seem like a bigger mountain than it is. He does not need 7 more 60 goal seasons unless you figure he is retiring at 33 years old.

Let's say he gets to 66 this year. Not unreasonable and chosen just to give me a round total of 360 goals by 26 years old. To date, Matthews has shown us every single year that barring time lost to injury, the bare minimum for him is 40 goals. If he played until 38 (completely reasonable) and could maintain his bare minimum rate, he's at 840 goals. In fact, to get into the top 4, he would only need to average 34 goals per year to 38 years old. That's a far cry from your 7 seasons of 60+ goals, don't you think?

Daunting but really shows how great the greats really are.

Also very out to lunch as it assumes he retires at 33.

 

[authentic]

Yeah there's basically 3 ways you get to 800+ from what we have seen.

Have an insane peak like Gretzky, have insane longevity like Howe or have insane consistency like Ovi.

To put it into perspective if Matthews finishes this season with 70 goals, he's going to need 7 more 60 goal seasons to finish in the top 4 all time, 8 more 60 goal seasons to pass Ovi and 9 more 60 goal seasons to break 900. Or that equivalent over a long career.

He's got a really solid peak so far, not insane but solid. But he's going to need to basically have Ovi level consistency or Howe level longevity to push into 800+ territory. And to put that further into perspective he's already lost more time to injury at 26 than Ovi or Howe did in their entire careers.

Yeah but 9 more 60 goal seasons equals 13 more 40ish goal seasons, which is not out of the realm of possibility at all. Brett Hull scored close to 40 goals at 37 in a lower scoring era, and 13 more seasons takes Matthews to 39. It’s all about health really but I believe he has the ability to do so if he can stay close to this level for another few seasons atleast.

 

[Spargon]

What's wild is after his 4 goal debut, Matthews had something like 35 2-goal games before his second hat trick. Now he has 5 this year alone so far.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Ovechkin's done a lot of things Matthews has never done...

Raw goals? PP time? Empty netters?

 

[Chuck Norris Trophy]

Insane player. Absolutely lethal, that shot is something else.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Ovechkin would be doing the same if he had his peak now with the significant reduction in goalie equipment

If the Queen had nuts she would have been King.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

That means 1/3 of his goals have come in just 5 games. If you’re impressed, awesome, I’d just want a bit more consistency outta my star player, personally.

Ok I’m just jealous, dude’s a monster this year.

Goal scorers are traditionally streaky. Even the Hulls and Ovies scored in crazy bunches

And how is he better than Ovechkin?

His career GPG is wayyyy higher than Ovie. Bossy was the purest goal scorer in NHl history. Only player close to his goals per game was Mario. They were around .75 goals per game in career. That’s crazy

 

[Duder54]

Except he’s a big all around center instead of a winger who does nothing but score.

Imagine a player being compared to of the greatest goal scorers to ever play the game and fans of said player somehow taking that as an insult. lol.

 

[Daximus]

I don't expect him to hit the all time record for a few reasons. Basically you need health luck, no more strikes, the effects of new move to load management, etc. I also don't think he's the type that will hang around just to beat it.

That said, I think you are making some of it seem like a bigger mountain than it is. He does not need 7 more 60 goal seasons unless you figure he is retiring at 33 years old.

Let's say he gets to 66 this year. Not unreasonable and chosen just to give me a round total of 360 goals by 26 years old. To date, Matthews has shown us every single year that barring time lost to injury, the bare minimum for him is 40 goals. If he played until 38 (completely reasonable) and could maintain his bare minimum rate, he's at 840 goals. In fact, to get into the top 4, he would only need to average 34 goals per year to 38 years old. That's a far cry from your 7 seasons of 60+ goals, don't you think?


Also very out to lunch as it assumes he retires at 33.

I'm not assuming he retires at any point just illustrating what kind of mountain that truly is that is why I said that or the equivalent over a long career.

It's going to take an insane level of consistency from even 360 goals to hit 800. Thats 440 more goals. If he plays until age 40, so 14 more seasons thats an average of 31 goals roughly per season for 14 more seasons. A feat only accomplished by 5 players. Add that to the eight 30+ goal seasons he has and that is a grand total of 22- 30 or more goal seasons making him by far the greatest and most consistent goal scorer the NHL has ever seen.

That is an unreasonable expectation.

Yeah but 9 more 60 goal seasons equals 13 more 40ish goal seasons, which is not out of the realm of possibility at all. Brett Hull scored close to 40 goals at 37 in a lower scoring era, and 13 more seasons takes Matthews to 39. It’s all about health really but I believe he has the ability to do so if he can stay close to this level for another few seasons atleast.

Yeah that puts him at about 22 thirty or more goal seasons over the course of a 22 year career which has never been done.


To put that even more into perspective Gordie Howe has 22- 20 or more goal seasons over the course of a much much longer and much much more healthy career. Having missed less time due to injury over the course of his entire career than Matthews has missed by age 26.

 

[tmlmatus]

I can see him getting 50 in 50 in the next few years. Guy is a stud.

 

[AvroArrow]

<Insert critical and overly creative comment about the Matthews playstyle that would get me banned>

April is going to be a beauty.

<insert salty comment about a player because I hate the team that he plays for and then cry about getting called out>

<insert comment to derail the thread and then cry about it>

 

[The90]

Lmao Ovechkin would destroy this easy league. Sam Reinhart is gonna score 60 ffs

Sam Reinhart is also shooting g 28% lol

Just a had a streak of 10 goals in 6 games where he shot at 38%! Pretty crazy

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I'm not assuming he retires at any point just illustrating what kind of mountain that truly is that is why I said that or the equivalent over a long career.

It's going to take an insane level of consistency from even 360 goals to hit 800. Thats 440 more goals. If he plays until age 40, so 14 more seasons thats an average of 31 goals roughly per season for 14 more seasons. A feat only accomplished by 5 players. Add that to the eight 30+ goal seasons he has and that is a grand total of 22- 30 or more goal seasons making him by far the greatest and most consistent goal scorer the NHL has ever seen.

That is an unreasonable expectation.

You literally did your math with him finishing at 33 years old. He literally needs to average 34 to age 38 to end up top 4. He does not need a single 60 goal season. He does not need a single 50 goal season. He does not need a single 40 goal season. He does not need a single 35 goal season. Based on age 38 at least.

Saying "only accomplished by 5 players" doesn't mean a whole lot when with each passing year he's doing things only seen by the top 3 to 5 all time. If you aren't picking up on it, this guy is far from ordinary. Add to it how much less ice time and PP time he is producing those numbers with and you'll realize even more how rare this guy is.

 

[Daximus]

You literally did your math with him finishing at 33 years old. He literally needs to average 34 to age 38 to end up top 4. He does not need a single 60 goal season. He does not need a single 50 goal season. He does not need a single 40 goal season. He does not need a single 35 goal season. Based on age 38 at least.

Saying "only accomplished by 5 players" doesn't mean a whole lot when with each passing year he's doing things only seen by the top 3 to 5 all time. If you aren't picking up on it, this guy is far from ordinary. Add to it how much less ice time and PP time he is producing those numbers with and you'll realize even more how rare this guy is.

No I wasn't he could accomplish one of those 60 goal seasons at 38 for all that the numbers matter. Never once did I specify he would need to do it by 33 years old or that he only had until 33 to do it. You are just using that as some arbitrary cutoff to make it look easy even by his standard and I assure you it will be far from easy even for him.

The reason I'm using larger goal numbers for the earlier points of his career is that it's a lot easier to compile while your younger than when your older. The vast majority of scorers do not post high scoring totals later on in their careers, especially scorers who have the injury history he has already.

I don't think you are realizing the actual difficulty of what you think is likely to happen. It's extremely unlikely he finishes his career with the most ever 30 goal seasons by a significant number higher than anyone else has ever reached. You are talking about the most consistent goal scorer the NHL has ever seen from a guy who has missed more time due to injury already than both Howe and Ovi have in their entire careers. It's actually much more likely that his injury history catches up to him and he slows down later on in his career than he reaches 800.