Auston Matthews 69 goals in 81 games, most goals scored since Lemieux in 1995-96

[MCR74]

Lol what...? Are teams supposed to just forfeit the rest of their games once they clinch a playoff spot?

He's a Sens fan. For him, the games haven't mattered since December.

 

[Oilslick941611]

I'm just saying that scoring is up, more goals are going in. I'm not totally shocked that the best goal scorer is flirting with 70, especially since last year had 2 guys in the 60's.

Like I said, separation from 2nd place is very impressive.

ovechkin was scoring 50-60 when players were winning the Art Ross with point totals in the 80s.

Its like comparing Gretz/Mario to todays players, its a different league. 70 goals however is impressive in a historical context, but its been done before and will be done again with the way scoring keep raising and goalies SV% keep going down. The NHL has changed rules over the last decade to increase scoring because from the mid 90s to the mid 2010 it was down.

 

[Martin Skoula]

ovechkin was scoring 50-60 when players were winning the Art Ross with point totals in the 80s.

Its like comparing Gretz/Mario to todays players, its a different league. 70 goals however is impressive in a historical context, but its been done before and will be done again with the way scoring keep raising and goalies SV% keep going down. The NHL has changed rules over the last decade to increase scoring because from the mid 90s to the mid 2010 it was down.

He was also scoring low 30s 3 times in his prime.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I'm just saying that scoring is up, more goals are going in. I'm not totally shocked that the best goal scorer is flirting with 70, especially since last year had 2 guys in the 60's.

Like I said, separation from 2nd place is very impressive.

Scoring being up isn’t a flat impact across the spectrum. For example teams pulling the goalie 1-2 minutes earlier than they did in 2008 means games that would have ended 3-2 in 2008 are now 4-2 or 4-3 OT endings for an extra 1.5 goals on average in close situations, but the players getting those extra ENGs are going to be disproportionately defensive grinders defending leads.

 

[kevsh]

Impressive stuff, but he's once again racking up the goals when the games don't matter.

User name checks out.

 

[wetcoast]

ovechkin was scoring 50-60 when players were winning the Art Ross with point totals in the 80s.

You need to get your facts right here as Ovi scored 65 and 56 goals in his 3 year prime and after that his next highest total was 53 goals.

Its like comparing Gretz/Mario to todays players, its a different league. 70 goals however is impressive in a historical context, but its been done before and will be done again with the way scoring keep raising and goalies SV% keep going down. The NHL has changed rules over the last decade to increase scoring because from the mid 90s to the mid 2010 it was down.

69 goals is extremely impressive, especially with 51 ESG, if AM could ever have an elite PP year in scoring goals he might top 80.

AM might not have a chance at catching Ovi in overall goals due to injuries at the start of his career but both players have led the league in ESG 5 times already and AM has a decent shot at that record assuming some kind of good health the rest of the way.

through their first 8 seasons (AM has 2 games elft this year this is how they breakdown in ESG

AM 274 in 560 games

Ovi 240 in 601 games.

 

[Razz]

Rocket + Selke would be amazing. Screw the Hart.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Scoring being up isn’t a flat impact across the spectrum. For example teams pulling the goalie 1-2 minutes earlier than they did in 2008 means games that would have ended 3-2 in 2008 are now 4-2 or 4-3 OT endings for an extra 1.5 goals on average in close situations, but the players getting those extra ENGs are going to be disproportionately defensive grinders defending leads.

2 years ago, Josi scored the most points as a defenseman since... when?

Last year, Karlsson scored 100 points as a defenseman for the first time since... when?

Last year, McDavid scored 150+ points for the first time since... when?

Last year, we had 2 60+ goal scorers for the first time since... when?

This year, we've got 3 130+ point scorers for the first time since... when?

I'm honestly not trying to slag on Matthews. Just saying that it is not surprising to me for the single season goals total to follow suit.

It's obviously a different time in the league than it was even 5 years ago.

 

[wgknestrick]

He's got to hit 70, right?

Would be a HUGE lift for everyone that looks like they aren't allowed near playgrounds.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

I think Matthews getting close to 70 goals is awesome, but that doesn’t take away from OV. Gotta remember, he was getting that 65 goal season in an era where the next two leading scorers got 52 and 50 goals that year.

I feel like when all is said and done, we will look back at these guys and think Matthews has the higher goalscoring peak, but Ovechkin will have the longevity. He as been pretty healthy despite playing physically and has a goal scoring game that has aged wonderfully; lots of it is off teeing off with a one-timer from the hashmarks, not having to rely on speed or agility, which declines with age.

With Matthews it makes me sad how many games he has missed due to injury and Covid shutdown. He has had multiple seasons where he has been on pace for 60+ goals, just hasn’t had the raw numbers of games to get there, but this season we are finally seeing him fully healthy and with a full season to play, so we should enjoy it.


Boston and Tampa have had a stranglehold on the Atlantic for a decade and a half. There is a reason why all those talented Toronto teams got knocked out in the first round year after year.

"All those talented Toronto teams"

I haven't seen a talented Toronto team since the early 2000's. But since maybe Nylander, Matthews, Marner....... I've been lucky to watch talented Toronto players.

Team? Yeah............... still waiting to see that.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

0 of these words have anything to do with durability or consistency lol, cope more

Well, I for one hope Matthews shows up More Good for the playoffs this year.

I think that's gonna be my thoughts going in, f*** the rest of the team, Matthew needs to be More Good!

He's got to hit 70, right?

Would be a HUGE lift for everyone that looks like they aren't allowed near playgrounds.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Matthews in this era compares to Gretzkys 92 IMO.

This doesn't remotely compare to Gretzky's 92, even if you just want to look at the goal-scoring aspect. When you add in the fact that Gretzky had 108 points when he had 50 goals (in 39 games - not he played 39 games, but the team had played more) and he was on his way to obliterating the single-season points record (164) he'd set the prior season, which wiped out Esposito's prior mark (152), it really doesn't compare.

Hell, it doesn't even compare to Brett Hull's 86, which is maybe even more impressive since Hull did that in a down-scoring year for the league and the next highest goal scorer on his team had 27 (Geoff Courtnall) and only one other player (Adam Oates, 25) topped 20, and everyone knew Hull was going to be the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and probably 4th threat to score goals and they still couldn't stop him.

It's a great season, sure. Let's not discount that. You get near 70, you're in the top-15 all-time. But the argument on where it ranks all-time tops out at #3, and you're trying to argue whether it's more impressive than Gretzky's 87 (it's not) or Lemieux's 85 (it's also not) regardless of how Selke-level his play has been this season.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

2 years ago, Josi scored the most points as a defenseman since... when?

Last year, Karlsson scored 100 points as a defenseman for the first time since... when?

Last year, McDavid scored 150+ points for the first time since... when?

Last year, we had 2 60+ goal scorers for the first time since... when?

This year, we've got 3 130+ point scorers for the first time since... when?

I'm honestly not trying to slag on Matthews. Just saying that it is not surprising to me for the single season goals total to follow suit.

It's obviously a different time in the league than it was even 5 years ago.

You’re not allowed to mention the two distinct jumps in league wide scoring in 2018, and then again in 2021 that directly coincided with the golden knights and kraken entering the league.

 

[Leksand]

Matthews in this era compares to Gretzkys 92 IMO. I mean dude, the goalies pads never touched the ice back then if they didnt accidentally fall down, and their equipment was like half the size compared to today. OBV im not hating on #99, he has the records for a reason, and the reason is because he was so much better than everyone else. But if we talk about goal scoring Matthews is just that, way better than the competition, its not even close.

NOW, everyone will start hating me saying Matthews is on Gretzkys level as is tradition. But what about my countryman Jari Kurri who scored 71 in 73games in the 84-85 season? I guess he is just way better than than Matthews as well, you dont get to pick and choose.

By this "They scored more in less games, and scoring was the same" logic Matthews is like barely top10 if even in it. These dudes did it with having defenders who couldnt skate backwards, goalies whose gear was smaller than todays players.

You can say this season is top-10 and could be #2 maybe in the next couple of days. Never saw a thorough discussion of how to adjust properly, but most tables I've seen come up with something broadly like this.

Indeed, many will not accept adjustments - "a goal is a goal". Also, it now seems quite a few think one needs to adjust Gretzky's numbers and others from the 80s early 90s but somehow not the dead puck era seasons / first 15 seasons of the 2000s.

Selänne's best is 24th and Kurri's best 59th. (Markus Näslund is 77th as the best Swede I think so the stats are clearly flawed).

 

[Leksand]

2 years ago, Josi scored the most points as a defenseman since... when?

Last year, Karlsson scored 100 points as a defenseman for the first time since... when?

Last year, McDavid scored 150+ points for the first time since... when?

Last year, we had 2 60+ goal scorers for the first time since... when?

This year, we've got 3 130+ point scorers for the first time since... when?

I'm honestly not trying to slag on Matthews. Just saying that it is not surprising to me for the single season goals total to follow suit.

It's obviously a different time in the league than it was even 5 years ago.

This is illuminating and relevant. I do not understand why it is so controversial.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

ovechkin was scoring 50-60 when players were winning the Art Ross with point totals in the 80s.

Its like comparing Gretz/Mario to todays players, its a different league. 70 goals however is impressive in a historical context, but its been done before and will be done again with the way scoring keep raising and goalies SV% keep going down. The NHL has changed rules over the last decade to increase scoring because from the mid 90s to the mid 2010 it was down.

because there was less high end talent then there is now

 

[Arthur Morgan]

You can say this season is top-10 and could be #2 maybe in the next couple of days. Never saw a thorough discussion of how to adjust properly, but most tables I've seen come up with something broadly like this.

Indeed, many will not accept adjustments - "a goal is a goal". Also, it now seems quite a few think one needs to adjust Gretzky's numbers and others from the 80s early 90s but somehow not the dead puck era seasons / first 15 seasons of the 2000s.

Selänne's best is 24th and Kurri's best 59th. (Markus Näslund is 77th as the best Swede I think so the stats are clearly flawed).


View attachment 851849View attachment 851848

adjusted stats are pure nonsense. wheres the bar? whos doing the math here and how do you even its correct? like I said pure nonsense

 

[34]

Impressive stuff, but he's once again racking up the goals when the games don't matter.

Those goals win you games that get you the points to make the playoffs. So yeah, kinda important.

 

[Martin Skoula]

2 years ago, Josi scored the most points as a defenseman since... when?

Last year, Karlsson scored 100 points as a defenseman for the first time since... when?

Last year, McDavid scored 150+ points for the first time since... when?

Last year, we had 2 60+ goal scorers for the first time since... when?

This year, we've got 3 130+ point scorers for the first time since... when?

I'm honestly not trying to slag on Matthews. Just saying that it is not surprising to me for the single season goals total to follow suit.

It's obviously a different time in the league than it was even 5 years ago.

At the same time we had a 19 year old Crosby putting up a 120 point season, Thornton almost hitting 100 assists, and no name middle 6ers like Chechoo scoring 50+.

I’m not disagreeing scoring is up now compared to the mini DPE in the early-mid 2010s but the people doing flat % adjustments are being lazy. The main changes like early goalie pulls, 3 on 3 OT, 4 forward power plays, the death of the slapshot and dump and chase, etc are going to benefit some types of players significantly more than others. It’s a golden age for puck dominant mobile playmakers right now to rack up a mountain of systemic transition points on top of their usual in-zone playmaking, but netfront guys and big point shot D haven’t had those same gains.

Karlsson, Josi, Kucherov, Pastrnak are putting up massive totals but they’re also putting them up on bigger gaps to 2nd place on their team than anyone in the previous era, is that scoring being up on the whole or is that scoring being funnelled to one player more than before?

 

[Leksand]

adjusted stats are pure nonsense. wheres the bar? whos doing the math here and how do you even its correct? like I said pure nonsense

Adjustments are tricky to make but obviously necessary if you want to compare numbers across time, given how incredibly different the scoring environment is across time (recent issues are ENGs, overtime, and 6v5 changes just as an example).

It's really why I more and more appreciate ranking stats - who scored the most goals, had most points, had most assists in a season / several seasons / many seasons over a career. All players play with the same rules during a season, play against the same players, shoot against goalies with the same size pads, face the same tactics, same reffing and so on.

 

[authentic]

ovechkin was scoring 50-60 when players were winning the Art Ross with point totals in the 80s.

Its like comparing Gretz/Mario to todays players, its a different league. 70 goals however is impressive in a historical context, but its been done before and will be done again with the way scoring keep raising and goalies SV% keep going down. The NHL has changed rules over the last decade to increase scoring because from the mid 90s to the mid 2010 it was down.

"One of the best goal scoring seasons of all-time has been done before and will be done again" Well that sure is one way of dismissing the season Matthews is having

And I've posted this a few times before but just so everyone is aware...

Here are the top 10 in goals this season

69 - 72 pace
55 - 56 pace
53 - 56 pace
51 - 52 pace
48 - 49 pace
47 - 48 pace
47 - 48 pace
45 - 47 pace
44 - 49 pace
43 - 45 pace

Now compare that to Ovechkin's 65 goal season

65
52 - 54 pace
50
47
43
43 - 47 pace
42 - 45 pace
41 - 47 pace
40
40 - 47 pace

Matthews is actually a little more dominant over the runner up and 10th place goal scorers (especially in pace) than Ovechkin was while being 44th in powerplay time instead of 2nd and contending for a Selke trophy in the process.

He also has 9 more goals than anyone has primary assists (McDavid 60) and 14 more even strength goals than anyone has even strength primary assists (McDavid 37).

 

[TDotMassive]

To me and most fans Mackinnon is the clear 2nd best player in the game.

ovechkin was scoring 50-60 when players were winning the Art Ross with point totals in the 80s.

Its like comparing Gretz/Mario to todays players, its a different league. 70 goals however is impressive in a historical context, but its been done before and will be done again with the way scoring keep raising and goalies SV% keep going down. The NHL has changed rules over the last decade to increase scoring because from the mid 90s to the mid 2010 it was down.

Not totally accurate... scoring increased significantly after the lockout season and the cap-era started. Several rule changes enabled this. Scoring was similar to today (just a shade lower) until it fell toward the beginning of the 2010's, when it dropped for a few years before rebounding the past several seasons.

 

[authentic]

You can say this season is top-10 and could be #2 maybe in the next couple of days. Never saw a thorough discussion of how to adjust properly, but most tables I've seen come up with something broadly like this.

Indeed, many will not accept adjustments - "a goal is a goal". Also, it now seems quite a few think one needs to adjust Gretzky's numbers and others from the 80s early 90s but somehow not the dead puck era seasons / first 15 seasons of the 2000s.

Selänne's best is 24th and Kurri's best 59th. (Markus Näslund is 77th as the best Swede I think so the stats are clearly flawed).


View attachment 851849View attachment 851848

Matthews does this while getting half the powerplay time and contending for a Selke trophy. Just let that sink in.

 

[Dirty Dan]

Mackinnon is very good player

However there is no player brilliant like Matthew's

He has most strikes in 40 years. For Hart trophy Matthew's is highly competitive and superior consideration

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Adjustments are tricky to make but obviously necessary if you want to compare numbers across time, given how incredibly different the scoring environment is across time (recent issues are ENGs, overtime, and 6v5 changes just as an example).

It's really why I more and more appreciate ranking stats - who scored the most goals, had most points, had most assists in a season / several seasons / many seasons over a career. All players play with the same rules during a season, play against the same players, shoot against goalies with the same size pads, face the same tactics, same reffing and so on.

I would just like to see the math where they come up with these numbers. Ill agree with them but to me its just someones opinion of what it potentially could have been but are they right? not even remotely close