Auston Matthews 69 goals in 81 games, most goals scored since Lemieux in 1995-96

[Rants Mulliniks]

except for the teams where it wasn't.

I will leave you however much time you need to think that through.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

There was a ton of talent in 2003.

yeah but not like today. we now got some 3rd liners with like 50 points. no goons anymore either. but I just think right now there are a higher number of elite players

 

[X66]

Given Hull got 86 and Mario got 85....no question 70+

Can't say no question.

Hull and Lemieux wouldn't be the only ones to have benefitted from that technology.

The goalies they're facing will have as well.

They'd be in the same ranges as Matthews and Ovechkin.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Can't say no question.

Hull and Lemieux wouldn't be the only ones to have benefitted from that technology.

The goalies they're facing will have as well.

They'd be in the same ranges as Matthews and Ovechkin.

You think Mario Lemieux would be scoring around the same as Auston Matthews?

 

[Strangle]

This is such a dumb question. In a league with different players, rules, and dominant styles, zero of his shots would be the same. Finding space worked differently, creating space worked differently; the meta was not the same.

That said, even if you could just presume he gets to take all the same shots, every single one that barely squeaked through would get stopped by the larger pads. The goalies were not the same.

On top of that, again, assuming he takes a the same shots from the same places, the shots themselves would be less effective due to stick technology. The equipment is not the same.

Stop asking dumb questions that undermine whatever point you think you’re making.

Lmao

You’re so close and you don’t even know it

scoring was low because NHL lacked high end talent at that time. alot of the highest end talent back then already had their best days behind them.

BINGO

you can’t tell me that Jaime Benn is scoring 66 in this ‘environment’

 

[Strangle]

Sites like Hockey Reference tell you exactly how they do era adjusted stats, it's basically just a normalization of stats to a mean it's not mischievous. And I'm sure the creators would correctly tell you it's not a perfect metric and can't be used to simply say X season was better than Y.

Comparing eras with context isn't nonsense in any sport. Whether you bring math into it or not, performances and stats are impacted by competition, rule changes etc. I could be that biggest Babe Ruth proponent out there and the reality is he didn't play against Black players.

You can support a player and acknowledge this.

That’s why we count the goals, my friend

No adjustment can encapsulate or answer to all those variables in order to normalize scoring.

It can’t even take into account just the talent discrepancy variable at all, the biggest variable of them all!

It’s a waste of time, it’s pseudo-intellectual and it’s just garbage math.

 

[X66]

You think Mario Lemieux would be scoring around the same as Auston Matthews?

Yes.

Matthews is having one of the best goal scoring seasons ever when era adjusted. I'd expect Lemieux to be right around there - some years higher some years slightly lower.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Yes.

Matthews is having one of the best goal scoring seasons ever when era adjusted. I'd expect Lemieux to be right around there - some years higher some years slightly lower.

This is just getting absolutely insane.

Auston Matthews is not comparable in any way to Mario Lemieux.

What does “some years higher, some years lower” even mean?

 

[X66]

This is just getting absolutely insane.

Auston Matthews is not comparable in any way to Mario Lemieux.

What does “some years higher, some years lower” even mean?

Dude obviously Lemieux is a better player than Matthews, he'd be putting up insane point totals in any NHL era.

But Matthews and Ovechkin are generational goal scorers, no different than Hull or Lemieux etc.

Just look at all of the goals Matthews and Ovechkin have scored on MUCH better goaltending.

No player in NHL history will be putting up consistent 70+ goal season in today's NHL, Lemieux included.

 

[Haatley]

Yes.

Matthews is having one of the best goal scoring seasons ever when era adjusted. I'd expect Lemieux to be right around there - some years higher some years slightly lower.

Lemieux would be consistently higher every year.

 

[PaulD]

I will leave you however much time you need to think that through.

What the frozen cap excuse for for Dubas overpaying core players.
Frozen Cap wasn't a "killer" for Bolts, Aves, Knights, Stars, Rangers, Bruins, and so on .....

 

[authentic]

So all those players would get 70 but only 1 player will maybe get it this year in a league full of many stars ?

This is another thing. The league today is far better and far more talented than the NHL in the 80s. The influx of Russians and a majority of European players and the increase of elite American players skyrocketed the depth of talent in the league, not to mention the vast improvement in goaltending and overall defense. Dominating the NHL today is objectively harder.

Though this applies more to Gretzky, Bossy, etc. than Lemieux of course

 

[Ol' Jase]

Dude obviously Lemieux is a better player than Matthews, he'd be putting up insane point totals in any NHL era.

But Matthews and Ovechkin are generational goal scorers, no different than Hull or Lemieux etc.

Just look at all of the goals Matthews and Ovechkin have scored on MUCH better goaltending.

No player in NHL history will be putting up consistent 70+ goal season in today's NHL, Lemieux included.

Are you old enough to have seen Lemieux play?

 

[Ol' Jase]

This is another thing. The league today is far better and far more talented than the NHL in the 80s. The influx of Russians and a majority of European players and the increase of elite American players skyrocketed the depth of talent in the league, not to mention the vast improvement in goaltending and overall defense. Dominating the NHL today is objectively harder.

Though this applies more to Gretzky, Bossy, etc. than Lemieux of course

There are also 10 more teams and 230+ more NHL roster spots than there was in the 1980’s.

And how does that apply more to Gretzky than Lemieux?

 

[gretzkyoilers]

This is just getting absolutely insane.

Auston Matthews is not comparable in any way to Mario Lemieux.

What does “some years higher, some years lower” even mean?

OK old man Jagr in 2015-2016 at 44 put up 66 points and 27 goals in 79 games playing on the Panthers and was their leading scorer over Barkov and Huberdeau. And 2015-2016 was a lower scoring environment than today. For those who have watched Jagr his whole career, he was half the player he was during his come back starting in 2011 yet he managed to be a very good and productive player. See the recent interviews with Jagr about Mario. Better yet look at Mario's stats. Jagr is the first to admit Mario was light years better than him and the rest of the league. Always good to look at overlapping careers to get perspective. Prime Mario today would be insane.

 

[SkinsFan09]

That’s why we count the goals, my friend

No adjustment can encapsulate or answer to all those variables in order to normalize scoring.

It can’t even take into account just the talent discrepancy variable at all, the biggest variable of them all!

It’s a waste of time, it’s pseudo-intellectual and it’s just garbage math.

Which is why I said the creators would tell you it can't be used to simply say one season is better than another. It's a fun chart to look at.

It's not that serious.

 

[X66]

Lemieux would be consistently higher every year.

No player in NHL history is consistently hitting 70+ post 2005.

Zero.

 

[Ol' Jase]

No player in NHL history is consistently hitting 70+ post 2005.

Zero.

So, no, you’re not old enough to have seen anyone from the 1980’s and ‘90’s play.

 

[X66]

So, no, you’re not old enough to have seen anyone from the 1980’s and ‘90’s play.

Lemieux is my all time favourite player lol

Ovechkin is the most freakish goal scorer of all time. No goal scorer had his speed, power athleticism etc and he never broke 70 once.

Zero players are breaking 70 goals consistently post 2005.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Lemieux would be consistently higher every year.

Except in real life - he wasn't.

Lemieux led the NHL in goals all of 3 times during his career.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Lemieux is my all time favourite player lol

That’s not what I asked.

Are you old enough to have seen him play?

 

[PeE eL DuBoiS]

I thoroughly believe Lemieux would be potting 70+ goals and 80+ assists, 160 or so points in today's game. But for all the people arguing about the better equipment, and lack of holding in today's NHL, also consider how much better goalies can be today in comparison to the 80s, until the butterfly style became prominent with Roy into the 90s.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Except in real life - he wasn't.

Lemieux led the NHL in goals all of 3 times during his career.

You understand the main reason for that, though, I hope?

 

[gretzkyoilers]

Except in real life - he wasn't.

Lemieux led the NHL in goals all of 3 times during his career.

Because of injury and things like CANCER his games per year were relatively low. Overall he had 690 goals in 915 games meaning he averaged ~62 goals per year. He had 69 goals twice, 70 and 85 goals as highs....

 

[EquivalentStay]

Except in real life - he wasn't.

Lemieux led the NHL in goals all of 3 times during his career.

Remind me who led the NHL in goals during his career real quick.