Athletic Has Leafs as 3rd best in contract Values

[ACC1224]

In the past Komorov 3x 4, Beagle, 3X4

Thought you were referring to the more relevant present day.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Leafs don't really have any bad contracts, maybe Tavares.

HFBoards: Dubas sucks, trust me bro!

 

[NoTeeth]

Thought you were referring to the more relevant present day.

That Chiarot deal was just horrendous by Yzerman. He really is a 3rd pair D. I don't get it after his bust in Florida.
And ex Leaf Mikheyev 4.75 per? Yikes. Obviously not a 4th liner, but yikes.

 

[allfornothing]

Imagine think marner for 11mill is better than 2 players for 5m each. Even if he puts up more points than both combined he can only play 20 minutes. You still need to find players to play the rest of the game. Danault at 3m had very similar playoff points to matthews at 11m. How many Champions have just one line score an overwhelming majority of the teams points? What happens if someone can shut that line down for a few games? Did dom write this article? He makes his living selling positive words about the leafs.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Imagine think marner for 11mill is better than 2 players for 5m each. Even if he puts up more points than both combined he can only play 20 minutes. You still need to find players to play the rest of the game. Danault at 3m had very similar playoff points to matthews at 11m. How many Champions have just one line score an overwhelming majority of the teams points? What happens if someone can shut that line down for a few games? Did dom write this article? He makes his living selling positive words about the leafs.

Marner and Bunting make 12.7m
McDavid makes 12.5m

Who are you taking?

 

[allfornothing]

Marner and Bunting make 12.7m
McDavid makes 12.5m

Who are you taking?

Yes the oilers are known for their depth lol

 

[A1LeafNation]

Yes the oilers are known for their depth lol

That is not an answer to the question I asked.

 

[Stephen]

Imagine think marner for 11mill is better than 2 players for 5m each. Even if he puts up more points than both combined he can only play 20 minutes. You still need to find players to play the rest of the game. Danault at 3m had very similar playoff points to matthews at 11m. How many Champions have just one line score an overwhelming majority of the teams points? What happens if someone can shut that line down for a few games? Did dom write this article? He makes his living selling positive words about the leafs.

Colorado just won with Mackinnon and Kadri making less combined than Mitch Marner down the middle. So the argument that we’re upper echelon for scoring and contract value is a nice pat on the back… but to win a championship teams are getting extraordinary value on legacy contracts. That advantage goes down over time in a flat cap. But overall the premise of this article would seem to be about regular season scoring. And we know we’re good in that department.

 

[NoTeeth]

Imagine think marner for 11mill is better than 2 players for 5m each. Even if he puts up more points than both combined he can only play 20 minutes. You still need to find players to play the rest of the game. Danault at 3m had very similar playoff points to matthews at 11m. How many Champions have just one line score an overwhelming majority of the teams points? What happens if someone can shut that line down for a few games? Did dom write this article? He makes his living selling positive words about the leafs.

This as to be sarcasm. The 2 most talented teams just met in the finals. You'd rather have 2 typical 5 million players instead?
97 points in 72 games...

BTW, you mentioned Danault, well Kampf for 1.5 was a steal for a 3rd line C.

Colorado just won with Mackinnon and Kadri making less combined than Mitch Marner down the middle. So the argument that we’re upper echelon for scoring and contract value is a nice pat on the back… but to win a championship teams are getting extraordinary value on legacy contracts. That advantage goes down over time in a flat cap. But overall the premise of this article would seem to be about regular season scoring. And we know we’re good in that department.

Have you veer looked up Mackinnon and kadri's stats prior to them signing that deal? Mackinnon had 63, 38, 53 points in his ELC prior to signing his deal. Nylander had better ELC numbers, let alone Matthews and marner. Mackinnon took no discount at all.

 

[Turin]

People keep saying “you can’t overpay stars!” and that’s kind of true on a business level but we also have yet to see a Cup winner with anybody making double digits.

 

[Stephen]

This as to be sarcasm. The 2 most talented teams just met in the finals. You'd rather have 2 typical 5 million players instead?
97 points in 72 games...

BTW, you mentioned Danault, well Kampf for 1.5 was a steal for a 3rd line C.


Have you veer looked up Mackinnon and kadri's stats prior to them signing that deal? Mackinnon had 63, 38, 53 points in his ELC prior to signing his deal. Nylander had better ELC numbers, let alone Matthews and marner. Mackinnon took no discount at all.

Do we need a history lesson for every favourable contract on another team that had more success than Toronto?

 

[Stephen]

People keep saying “you can’t overpay stars!” and that’s kind of true on a business level but we also have yet to see a Cup winner with anybody making double digits.

I think overpaying your stars is definitely preferable to overpaying an over the hill former star an upper middle class salary. But the great teams usually kick into a situation where one or more of their stars is completely getting ripped off on a legacy contract.

 

[allfornothing]

This as to be sarcasm. The 2 most talented teams just met in the finals. You'd rather have 2 typical 5 million players instead?
97 points in 72 games...

BTW, you mentioned Danault, well Kampf for 1.5 was a steal for a 3rd line C.


Have you veer looked up Mackinnon and kadri's stats prior to them signing that deal? Mackinnon had 63, 38, 53 points in his ELC prior to signing his deal. Nylander had better ELC numbers, let alone Matthews and marner. Mackinnon took no discount at all.

The two most talented teams yes. Which team had a forward getting paid 11% of the cap? Not one of them. How much of the leafs team is on that power play? Is it 58%? Is that the same as the elite teams? Do you think have that percentage of your resources devoted to offense is hurting their defense?

I think overpaying your stars is definitely preferable to overpaying an over the hill former star an upper middle class salary. But the great teams usually kick into a situation where one or more of their stars is completely getting ripped off on a legacy contract.

But the problem is tavares is an over the hill star. He peaked in oshawa and has been riding that ever since.

 

[NoTeeth]

The two most talented teams yes. Which team had a forward getting paid 11% of the cap? Not one of them. How much of the leafs team is on that power play? Is it 58%? Is that the same as the elite teams? Do you think have that percentage of your resources devoted to offense is hurting their defense?


But the problem is tavares is an over the hill star. He peaked in oshawa and has been riding that ever since.

Tavares had 76 points in 79 games with 2nd line usage. He at this point feels rather underrated.

Teams have won cups with a forward making more than 11% FYI.. Wings also won a cup with 4 players making a larger % of the cap than the Leaf 4 do.

 

[Stephen]

The two most talented teams yes. Which team had a forward getting paid 11% of the cap? Not one of them. How much of the leafs team is on that power play? Is it 58%? Is that the same as the elite teams? Do you think have that percentage of your resources devoted to offense is hurting their defense?


But the problem is tavares is an over the hill star. He peaked in oshawa and has been riding that ever since.

I would assume Tavares’ below par play is masked by his near PPG average production, and averaged down by Bunting under $1 million when we talk salaries.

Basically when you average it down you see two guys scoring about 65-70 points making $6 million. Looks great on paper but there’s a lot going on below the surface that may not be as rosy as at first glance.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Imagine think marner for 11mill is better than 2 players for 5m each.

Imagine thinking overpaying 2 complimentary middle-tier players is better than underpaying one of the best players in the world.

Danault at 3m had very similar playoff points to matthews at 11m.

Danault has 14 points in 45 playoff games, for the record. Not remotely close to Matthews.

Did dom write this article? He makes his living selling positive words about the leafs.

Actually he makes a living doing analytical evaluations of all teams, players, etc., based on evidence-supported models.

 

[Notsince67]

Imagine think marner for 11mill is better than 2 players for 5m each. Even if he puts up more points than both combined he can only play 20 minutes. You still need to find players to play the rest of the game. Danault at 3m had very similar playoff points to matthews at 11m. How many Champions have just one line score an overwhelming majority of the teams points? What happens if someone can shut that line down for a few games? Did dom write this article? He makes his living selling positive words about the leafs.

You are actually making the other side argument. You should think on why that is.

 

[TheScandal89]

Riley, Brodie, Gio and Nylander are great deals for what they bring. I actually couldn't believe how good Brodie was defensively. Could be that our D was just that bad.

Tavares is overpaid, but he was a UFA, he was going to get that and more. Paying Marner and Matthews like UFAs was the issue, as we paid them high cap hits that lead them into UFA status. At the end of Tavares' and Stamkos ELCs they both signed 5 year x 5 million I believe. Those, with inflation accounted for, should have been relatively close to what our guys got. Unfortunately, with offer sheets, and how much success they had, they got what they got.

If Matthews stays I wouldn't be shocked if he wanted a 8 year 120 Million deal (15m cap hit)

 

[NoTeeth]

Do we need a history lesson for every favourable contract on another team that had more success than Toronto?

I'm just a little tired of hearing Mackinnon took a massive discount to help his team when he in fact did not. Ever look up Marchand's stats?
The theme seems to be you get a great RFA deal if you get off to a late start in your career.

 

[Stephen]

I'm just a little tired of hearing Mackinnon took a massive discount to help his team when he in fact did not. Ever look up Marchand's stats?
The theme seems to be you get a great RFA deal if you get off to a late start in your career.

We can have a discussion about how elite teams find spectacular efficiencies at the top of the roster without revisiting those themes.

We have some great value contracts that are compensating for some heavier ones but the theme seems to be regular season scoring. And to take the next step we’ll need to find some big value coming up. Maybe that’s an ELC. Also those big value contracts are also timing out throughout the league so we’ll see if that results in a bump for Toronto.

 

[notbias]

I think overpaying your stars is definitely preferable to overpaying an over the hill former star an upper middle class salary. But the great teams usually kick into a situation where one or more of their stars is completely getting ripped off on a legacy contract.

Our players were good on their ELC and then the flat cap, that is the real issue with the contracts, Mac is the perfect example of a "lucky" signing in the sense he took off after he signed.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Our players were good on their ELC and then the flat cap, that is the real issue with the contracts, Mac is the perfect example of a "lucky" signing in the sense he took off after he signed.

Yeah, I'm not sure that hoping that your star players are underwhelming through the beginning of their careers only for them to explode post-signing is really an effective "strategy".

 

[Captain97]

I think the issue with the leafs isn't that each contract individually is a problem but as a group it is.

Spending half your cap on 4 forwards is the issue not any of them being payed what they are (Tavares may be an issue soon though, he is slowing down)

 

[allfornothing]

Imagine thinking overpaying 2 complimentary middle-tier players is better than underpaying one of the best players in the world.

Danault has 14 points in 45 playoff games, for the record. Not remotely close to Matthews.

Actually he makes a living doing analytical evaluations of all teams, players, etc., based on evidence-supported models.

How many points did matthews hve against danault? 4! How many in the elimination games? Marner is not underpaid. He is in the top 5 highest paid forwards in the entire league. Is he a top 5 player? Would you rather be paying 11 for marner or 8.7 for crosby? 11 for marner or 6 for landeskog? Marner has more puck over glass penalties than game winning points. Matthews gets ragdolled by the chiarots and mcdonaughs of the league every playoff.

Do you think the signing bonuses in the summer make the players feel like they only get paid when the season is over?

The current cap structure sells regular season tickets. They have insane offense but the defense is non existent. They are profitable. This is the goal of the leafs organization. It is not designed to win stanley cups. Hockey is a team sport. Its not basketball where stars win championships alone. In hockey you need your stars to be focused on winning hockey games together, not on high salaries and dates with Justin bieber. You ever see a winning team have a clique like the leafs have right now?

 

[Mess]

Leafs Cap situation has them in a Haves and Have-Nots contract situation, like no other team. Nobody has 3 of the 7 highest AAV contracts in the league.

The haves eat up 1/2 your salary cap and those 4 forwards produce and carry the team during the regular season. If you pay a player $11.6 mil and he scores 60 and wins the Rocket and puts up 106 points and wins Hart and Lindsey then how can anyone dispute he shouldn't be among the highest paid players?.

The have-nots are on bargain basement contracts because you were forced to go bargain bin shopping and so small cap and small contribution and so no problem in terms of contract evaluation individually.

The problem comes when you're 0-4 in 1st round losses and your top heavy spending approach is directly tied to your Cup competitiveness, then do you have valued contracts during playoff struggles, or is it those very contracts in a Cap world the reason behind the failure. Every season 16 teams sign contracts that gets them into the playoffs, but that is the beginning not the end of the contract evaluation process. IMO

You would think you should take a winning team and then look at their contracts and evaluate how much value you got from your contracts in bang for you cap $$ buck towards Cup success.