Athletic Has Leafs as 3rd best in contract Values

[Racer88]

Regular season results (and playoff performances, outside of just surface level outcomes) are also a leaguewide measure for the quality of a team and where you're at, and they often dictate the majority of decisions. In fact, relying too much on exclusively playoff outcomes when making decisions often leads to counterproductive actions that hurt the team moving forward.

The objective is to win the cup, but only 1 team each year wins the cup. That means that for the objective of this league, there are 31 losers each year. Some people have gotten it into their head that getting to a later round automatically means you're closer to winning the cup (and who needs context!), but there's nothing to actually support that. There are actually a surprising number of 1st round losses and even playoff embarrassments that directly surround winning seasons, and a lot of teams that go far in the playoffs never end up winning anything.

Each of our last 3 playoff series outcomes could have been changed by 1 singular goal. If we had one shot or one save go a different way in those series, and we had ended up winning, are we actually closer to winning the cup next year? No, of course not.

There's no prior playoff criteria for winning. There's no secret formula. There's no necessary build style. Making bad moves just for the sake of change doesn't help anything.

That all sounds great but basically keeping the same core after 6 years of first round failure especially when all they had to do in any of those last three years is score one or two more goals doesn’t seem like a winning strategy.
Shouldn’t we expect that 4 forwards eating 50% of the cap at least be able to score that extra goal at least once in the last 3 years

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

How long are you prepared to stick it out. It’s 6 years and counting. How long before maybe it’s time to not blow it up but maybe change 1 or two of the expensive 4

I really don't have a good answer for you. All I can say is in my opinion, the boldest move for this current management group to make is to stick with the plan they committed to. I assume after a couple more years of failure (if that happens), they'll run out of rope and be replaced then all bets are off. Basically I'm saying the easy move right now would to be to crumble under pressure and make wholesale changes for the sake of wholesale changes. It takes guts to stay the course.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I really don't have a good answer for you. All I can say is in my opinion, the boldest move for this current management group to make is to stick with the plan they committed to. I assume after a couple more years of failure (if that happens), they'll run out of rope and be replaced then all bets are off. Basically I'm saying the easy move right now would to be to crumble under pressure and make wholesale changes for the sake of wholesale changes. It takes guts to stay the course.

I asked here after the 2nd Boston 1st round loss how many more 1st round losses in a row we should give this core.

The objective and realist leaf fans said none. The die hard "defend the leafs at all costs" fans said JUST one more. And the mega over the top borderline propagandists leaf fans said 2 years most.

Nobody, even the biggest one-sided leaf fans on the planet, even imagined giving them year SEVEN next season... and the majority of the fans defending it. Shows just how irrational fandom makes people.

 

[Gabriel426]

I asked here after the 2nd Boston 1st round loss how many more 1st round losses in a row we should give this core.

The objective and realist leaf fans said none. The die hard "defend the leafs at all costs" fans said JUST one more. And the mega over the top borderline propagandists leaf fans said 2 years most.

Nobody, even the biggest one-sided leaf fans on the planet, even imagined giving them year SEVEN next season... and the majority of the fans defending it. Shows just how irrational fandom makes people.

I am surprised there were not any big changes after the Habs series, and thats why I am really not surprised about this past summer.

I think Dubas is stuck at a point where he knows the team is better than just making the playoffs and afraid to make changes but what he failed to understand is the goal is to win the Cup and not a round or two in 10 years in a row. Also having JT not living up to his 11mil contract and MM not scoring like a 11mil player in the playoffs are factors that Dubas just can't fix unless he takes risks but if those risks don't pay off, he knows he won't get another job in the league.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I asked here after the 2nd Boston 1st round loss how many more 1st round losses in a row we should give this core.

The objective and realist leaf fans said none. The die hard "defend the leafs at all costs" fans said JUST one more. And the mega over the top borderline propagandists leaf fans said 2 years most.

Nobody, even the biggest one-sided leaf fans on the planet, even imagined giving them year SEVEN next season... and the majority of the fans defending it. Shows just how irrational fandom makes people.

Sure but that's not me. The organization is seriously invested in this management group. They ain't giving up on them yet. Has nothing to do with logic or what you and I want, it's just reality. There is no possible way they fire this group for at least two more runs at it (just an opinion).

 

[Gary Nylund]

I asked here after the 2nd Boston 1st round loss how many more 1st round losses in a row we should give this core.

The objective and realist leaf fans said none. The die hard "defend the leafs at all costs" fans said JUST one more. And the mega over the top borderline propagandists leaf fans said 2 years most.

Nobody, even the biggest one-sided leaf fans on the planet, even imagined giving them year SEVEN next season... and the majority of the fans defending it. Shows just how irrational fandom makes people.

LMAO where do you guys get this crap from? We were underdogs both times against Boston and we might have won both if Kadri could control his temper better and you think the thing to do at that point was to break up the core?

That might be the single dumbest thing I've ever read here. Nicely done, thanks for the laugh.

 

[Stamkos4life]

I really don't have a good answer for you. All I can say is in my opinion, the boldest move for this current management group to make is to stick with the plan they committed to. I assume after a couple more years of failure (if that happens), they'll run out of rope and be replaced then all bets are off. Basically I'm saying the easy move right now would to be to crumble under pressure and make wholesale changes for the sake of wholesale changes. It takes guts to stay the course.

The simplest move is to change nothing.

The hardest move is to trade one of the big 3 + nylander and come out even better.

Dubas is chosing the simple route.

 

[Racer88]

I really don't have a good answer for you. All I can say is in my opinion, the boldest move for this current management group to make is to stick with the plan they committed to. I assume after a couple more years of failure (if that happens), they'll run out of rope and be replaced then all bets are off. Basically I'm saying the easy move right now would to be to crumble under pressure and make wholesale changes for the sake of wholesale changes. It takes guts to stay the course.

Fair enough. My magic number is 7. If they fail to win at least 1 round management including Shanny should be gone the next day. If they fail to make at least the conference final I would give serious consideration to replacing at least Dubas and Keefe.

 

[LeafEgo]

Fair enough. My magic number is 7. If they fail to win at least 1 round management including Shanny should be gone the next day. If they fail to make at least the conference final I would give serious consideration to replacing at least Dubas and Keefe.

Once is fine, two times is ok, three times is ok, four times is fine, five times is whatever, six times sure, but seven? NO WAY!

Love Shanny but totally agree. He is the most responsible and then downwards the responsibility goes. That's how it works. In this case it couldn't be more obvious why.

 

[Notsince67]

So this is where the fans hang out.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That all sounds great but basically keeping the same core after 6 years of first round failure especially when all they had to do in any of those last three years is score one or two more goals doesn’t seem like a winning strategy. Shouldn’t we expect that 4 forwards eating 50% of the cap at least be able to score that extra goal at least once in the last 3 years

It hasn't been 6 years with this core, and round number is so arbitrary and overblown. I'm not sure why you think the fact that it's been one-goal margins supports the idea of blowing it up; if anything, it supports the opposite. Keeping a top team together is a winning strategy. We have one of the best chances at a cup next year. That's a winning strategy.

You're far too focused on this "4 forwards for 50%" thing. They're paid big money to be the best players, and they have been, but that doesn't mean literally every shortfall falls on them. The team as a whole needed an extra goal. Or an extra save. Or even the same number of goals and saves in a different distribution. The year we get it may mean the cup.

 

[Racer88]

It hasn't been 6 years with this core, and round number is so arbitrary and overblown. I'm not sure why you think the fact that it's been one-goal margins supports the idea of blowing it up; if anything, it supports the opposite. Keeping a top team together is a winning strategy. We have one of the best chances at a cup next year. That's a winning strategy.

You're far too focused on this "4 forwards for 50%" thing. They're paid big money to be the best players, and they have been, but that doesn't mean literally every shortfall falls on them. The team as a whole needed an extra goal. Or an extra save. Or even the same number of goals and saves in a different distribution. The year we get it may mean the cup.

I’m not advocating blowing it up, that’s to extreme but if they fail for the 7 year in a row then serious changes need to be made. Unfortunately the player that really needs to be gone is locked here for 3 more years.
50% of the cap is very relevant to the failure of this team and yes the 4 expenses players have generally been their best players but what a low bar when the rest of the team is compromised of such bargain basement players.

So this is where the fans hang out.

Yes, the fans that expect better from our team and especially our 11 million dollar players

Once is fine, two times is ok, three times is ok, four times is fine, five times is whatever, six times sure, but seven? NO WAY!

Love Shanny but totally agree. He is the most responsible and then downwards the responsibility goes. That's how it works. In this case it couldn't be more obvious why.

I agree but 6 have passed so I’m on to the next year

 

[allfornothing]

I’m not advocating blowing it up, that’s to extreme but if they fail for the 7 year in a row then serious changes need to be made. Unfortunately the player that really needs to be gone is locked here for 3 more years.
50% of the cap is very relevant to the failure of this team and yes the 4 expenses players have generally been their best players but what a low bar when the rest of the team is compromised of such bargain basement players.


Yes, the fans that expect better from our team and especially our 11 million dollar players


I agree but 6 have passed so I’m on to the next year

Dekes valid Dubas criticisms for days

 

[Stamkos4life]

I’m not advocating blowing it up, that’s to extreme but if they fail for the 7 year in a row then serious changes need to be made. Unfortunately the player that really needs to be gone is locked here for 3 more years.
50% of the cap is very relevant to the failure of this team and yes the 4 expenses players have generally been their best players but what a low bar when the rest of the team is compromised of such bargain basement players.


Yes, the fans that expect better from our team and especially our 11 million dollar players


I agree but 6 have passed so I’m on to the next year

I find it funny when we suggest making changes after 6 straight first round losses, the dubas fan boys immediately tell us we can't blow it up.

There is a gap between doing nothing and blowing it up. But to the dubas fan boys, any suggestion of getting rid of their guy is akin to blowing it up.

You'd think they would want team success, but it has been obviously more important that dubas keeps his job.

I can understand having a favourite player but to root this hard for a gm is just plain weird. It must be a combo of his virtue signaling and the fact that dubas was never an athlete which speaks to those among us who couldn't play hockey.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

When I read these threads, I feel like I am the only one who really enjoys regular season games. That shit is my entertainment after the grind of working and shovelling snow. I care that we play good, fun to watch hockey all season long. Yes it's depressing to lose in the playoffs but I don't think we should completely hand wave playing good regular season hockey.

I find it funny when we suggest making changes after 6 straight first round losses, the dubas fan boys immediately tell us we can't blow it up.

There is a gap between doing nothing and blowing it up. But to the dubas fan boys, any suggestion of getting rid of their guy is akin to blowing it up.

You'd think they would want team success, but it has been obviously more important that dubas keeps his job.

I can understand having a favourite player but to root this hard for a gm is just plain weird. It must be a combo of his virtue signaling and the fact that dubas was never an athlete which speaks to those among us who couldn't play hockey.

I find it funny when people make a stance on a person their entire personality. Your account is basically the HFBoards equivalent of a Q person driving around with bumper stickers saying the FBI lied about the earth being round and to overturn 2020.

 

[Notsince67]

I’m not advocating blowing it up, that’s to extreme but if they fail for the 7 year in a row then serious changes need to be made. Unfortunately the player that really needs to be gone is locked here for 3 more years.
50% of the cap is very relevant to the failure of this team and yes the 4 expenses players have generally been their best players but what a low bar when the rest of the team is compromised of such bargain basement players.


Yes, the fans that expect better from our team and especially our 11 million dollar players


I agree but 6 have passed so I’m on to the next year

Real fans talk about the sport. To imply Matthews and Marner didn't pull their weight given the non-existent performance of a swath of support players is both lazy and not serious enough to build any credibility. Your identity as a fan isn't something you can just declare with any expectation of metamorphosis. It is negotiated with others through your words and actions. Marner and Matthews were among the few players that carried this team. It would have been nice to see a few relieve some of the weight.

 

[Stamkos4life]

When I read these threads, I feel like I am the only one who really enjoys regular season games. That shit is my entertainment after the grind of working and shovelling snow. I care that we play good, fun to watch hockey all season long. Yes it's depressing to lose in the playoffs but I don't think we should completely hand wave playing good regular season hockey.


I find it funny when people make a stance on a person their entire personality. Your account is basically the HFBoards equivalent of a Q person driving around with bumper stickers saying the FBI lied about the earth being round and to overturn 2020.

I find it funny when people support a gm who has failed four times in a row to get out of the first round despite inheriting the most promising leaf team I have ever seen. Actually, it isn't funny. It's just sad.

The goal is to win the cup, not the presidents trophy. I'm sorry that your work day and shoveling snow are so hard that you need the Leaf games during the regular season to be meaningful.

But most of us care only about winning the cup. What's the point in keeping a gm who has been given four chances with this core and has proven to be a failure?

I made a poll and their are literally Leaf fans who said they don't care how many first rounds losses we get, they don't want dubas fired. That is not a leaf fan, that is a dubas fanboy.

The fact I am attempting to hold the people in charge of the team accountable for the constant failure shouldn't be so shocking to you. But then again, maybe playoffs don't matter that much to you for some reason.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I find it funny when people support a gm who has failed four times in a row to get out of the first round despite inheriting the most promising leaf team I have ever seen. Actually, it isn't funny. It's just sad.

The goal is to win the cup, not the presidents trophy. I'm sorry that your work day and shoveling snow are so hard that you need the Leaf games during the regular season to be meaningful.

But most of us care only about winning the cup. What's the point in keeping a gm who has been given four chances with this core and has proven to be a failure?

I made a poll and their are literally Leaf fans who said they don't care how many first rounds losses we get, they don't want dubas fired. That is not a leaf fan, that is a dubas fanboy.

The fact I am attempting to hold the people in charge of the team accountable for the constant failure shouldn't be so shocking to you. But then again, maybe playoffs don't matter that much to you for some reason.

It could be that we disagree with some of Dubas moves but we don't make it our entire personality to flood every thread with those opinions, both on the Leafs board and on the mainboards. But you do you, I guess it's one way to get attention.

Not all of us have long lasting trauma and emotional swings because our team dissapoints us. Each year is a new storyline and opportunity to overcome the playoff drought.

 

[Dekes For Days]

50% of the cap is very relevant to the failure of this team

It's not though. It's really had nothing to do with it.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Who cares about this ridiculous opinion when all that matters is Stanley Cup victories.

 

[Notsince67]

Who cares about this ridiculous opinion when all that matters is Stanley Cup victories.

Not sure you see the irony of posting this on a fan forum

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

LMAO where do you guys get this crap from? We were underdogs both times against Boston and we might have won both if Kadri could control his temper better and you think the thing to do at that point was to break up the core?

That might be the single dumbest thing I've ever read here. Nicely done, thanks for the laugh.

What you wouldn't move on from MacKinnon etc. at 21?

 

[Gary Nylund]

What you wouldn't move on from MacKinnon etc. at 21?

I don't follow COL closely so the only answer I can give is don't know, don't care.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I don't follow COL closely so the only answer I can give is don't know, don't care.

You really don't have to to know the answer.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You really don't have to to know the answer.

Phew, that's a relief.