Athletic: Dubas Job on the Line this Season (contract expiring after this season)

[Stephen]

Wouldn't be good but in the grand scheme of things it's actually fairly minimal. Less than 700k cap hit next season 2 million the season after in terms of penalty (when the team has a bunch of salary opening up)

I think the gold standard there is a Carey Price handshake deal to go on LTIR forever.

 

[Dreakmur]

Dubas has only been GM since 2017. Last year his 2017 pick played solid top 4 minutes for us while the other dmen drafted around him all busted. How many players after Sandin have more games? Robertson is 21, Knies 20. So some are ahead of their peers and others are too young to expect anything right away

In 2017, Mark Hunter drafted Liljegren. In 2018, Dubas drafted Sandin. Neither played solid top 4 minutes last year, and still aren’t this year.

As for defensemen drafted around and after Sandin, K’Andre Miller certainly hasn’t busted. Mattias Samuelsson, Alexander Romanov, Martin Fehervary and Sea Durzi all did play top 4 minutes last year.

Liljegren was followed by Henri Jokiharju, Mario Ferraro, Jacob Bryson, and Mikey Andersen being picked after him… though most of them wouldn’t be playing top 4 on better teams.

 

[Dreakmur]

Seeing as we haven't had first round picks, and the one we did got brain cancer so not really fair to count that, is there another team with as much success with late firsts (Sandin, Liljegren) and 2nd rounds as us?

If we’re using those two picks as the benchmark, then yes. Buffalo drafted Jokiharju and Bryson with much later picks in those exact same drafts.

 

[DarkKnight]

Anyone know how many GM’s are on the last year of their contracts?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Anyone know how many GM’s are on the last year of their contracts?

I thought Capfriendly showed it and I just checked, it does not show unfortunately.

 

[deprw]

A Murray buyout would still be a problem for a team running on $4 in cap space to start the season and needing to re-sign Samsonov and add another competent goalie.

It's under 700k against cap first year and we have Liljegren, Sandin and Giordano signed for dirt cheap next year. Muzzin is problem if someone is, but in case his playing I'd assume he has played this season and played well.

I don't think there is a contract that is limiting our retool, but I think the question is how big of a chance your going to make. Even if we clear our cap space, those UFA players aren't usually solution for any glaring holes in a team.

Just hope they can fix this season, because it will be interesting retool in this cap world.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

It's not literally about height though is it really? Like no one would call Engvall small.

But he's small.

Maybe I should've said soft.

But the point stands. Remember when everyone was excited about Abruzzese joining the team. And SDA, Miettinen, Abramov, Hirvonen, Niemela, Kokkonen, even Brazeau.

Excellent drafting (and scouting) and yet where are any of these guys? There was so much bype around Timashov remember? Like legit excitement.

Not many pan out. I personally don't think we've drafted excellently.

Not every prospect is going to make it. What people are excited about is the fact that we have so many prospects that have been tracking well in their respective leagues that you'd think that we are going to have a few hits. The fact that we keep getting guys in later rounds that look like steals makes the scouting look good. Voit leading the OHL in scoring and Tverberg being drafted in the 7th and almost making team Canada after looking like one of the better power forwards in the NCAA for example.

People are being impatient and unrealistic when it comes to our prospects. Robertson is one of the older prospects now and he literally just turned 21 just over a month ago. Expecting 2nd round picks and on to be in the NHL in their draft +2 or 3 seasons and calling our scouting and development trash is uninformed and lazy.

Compare our pool to other contending teams and we look to be in good shape. Teams like the Pens, Bruins, Lightning, AVS ect. have pretty depleted pools at this point. Also compare the way our prospects are tracking to the prospects we had under Lou, Burke, Nonis and so on. Other than Hunter's first draft where he focused on skill, many of his picks weren't making impacts at any level. Same with the drafts under Burke and Nonis

 

[Antropovsky]

Your personal opinion =/= "the entire league's universal opinion"

Easy comment to type.... Could you back it up your opinion with hard facts?

My guess is you won't (as per usual).

Please explain why the leafs aren't in the bottom of difficulty to play against (soft)

 

[JKG33]

Seeing as we haven't had first round picks, and the one we did got brain cancer so not really fair to count that, is there another team with as much success with late firsts (Sandin, Liljegren) and 2nd rounds as us?

His brain cancer is irrelevant in the sense that he should not have been the pick. Schneider was the obvious choice at the time, and looks even better with hindsight.

Amirov's health is extremely unfortunate, but it doesn't give Dubas a pass for missing on a blatantly obvious pick.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Not every prospect is going to make it. What people are excited about is the fact that we have so many prospects that have been tracking well in their respective leagues that you'd think that we are going to have a few hits. The fact that we keep getting guys in later rounds that look like steals makes the scouting look good. Voit leading the OHL in scoring and Tverberg being drafted in the 7th and almost making team Canada after looking like one of the better power forwards in the NCAA for example.

People are being impatient and unrealistic when it comes to our prospects. Robertson is one of the older prospects now and he literally just turned 21 just over a month ago. Expecting 2nd round picks and on to be in the NHL in their draft +2 or 3 seasons and calling our scouting and development trash is uninformed and lazy.

Compare our pool to other contending teams and we look to be in good shape. Teams like the Pens, Bruins, Lightning, AVS ect. have pretty depleted pools at this point. Also compare the way our prospects are tracking to the prospects we had under Lou, Burke, Nonis and so on. Other than Hunter's first draft where he focused on skill, many of his picks weren't making impacts at any level. Same with the drafts under Burke and Nonis

This is what I'm saying though.

It's all hype and excitement. Of course fans are excited. Half of our fanbase is always excited. Remember Jess Blacker and Matt Finn. Loads of excitement around them. What about Nielsen, Bracco and Piccinich.

And we're not alone. This isn't a Leafs fans only thing. It's every fanbase.

And that's why, when I read how excellent our GM has been at drafting, I just laugh. Until there is actual tangible success of players coming into the NHL and contributing positively to a team, it means nothing.

 

[HockeyVirus]

In 2017, Mark Hunter drafted Liljegren. In 2018, Dubas drafted Sandin. Neither played solid top 4 minutes last year, and still aren’t this year.

As for defensemen drafted around and after Sandin, K’Andre Miller certainly hasn’t busted. Mattias Samuelsson, Alexander Romanov, Martin Fehervary and Sea Durzi all did play top 4 minutes last year.

Liljegren was followed by Henri Jokiharju, Mario Ferraro, Jacob Bryson, and Mikey Andersen being picked after him… though most of them wouldn’t be playing top 4 on better teams.

Hmm who drafted Durzi?

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

This is what I'm saying though.

It's all hype and excitement. Of course fans are excited. Half of our fanbase is always excited. Remember Jess Blacker and Matt Finn. Loads of excitement around them. What about Nielsen, Bracco and Piccinich.

And we're not alone. This isn't a Leafs fans only thing. It's every fanbase.

And that's why, when I read how excellent our GM has been at drafting, I just laugh. Until there is actual tangible success of players coming into the NHL and contributing positively to a team, it means nothing.

That's true but we also have many posters here who say we have no prospects or that the GM is bad at drafting which is false as we have many prospects doing well and it's also too early to say that.

Just from Dubas’ first draft you've got Sandin and Durzi who has played a decent number of NHL games and we have Kral making his debut tomorrow night after being probably the Marlies best D man last year. We also have Holmberg from that draft that was named playoff MVP in Sweden and will likely play games this year. Just from that draft alone, that's a good percentage of picks looking like possible NHL players.

From the following year you've got Robertson and Abbruzese who have played few NHL games, but like I said, they're still young and Abruzzese is only playing his first full year of pro hockey.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I should have realized it, but it really was quite telling to me that Dubas has had three management gigs in three leagues, the only coach he’s ever hired is Keefe. Weird.

If that doesn't scream "Open Mindness and Out of the Box thinking" I don't know what else ever would....

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

It's not literally about height though is it really? Like no one would call Engvall small.

But he's small.

Maybe I should've said soft.

But the point stands. Remember when everyone was excited about Abruzzese joining the team. And SDA, Miettinen, Abramov, Hirvonen, Niemela, Kokkonen, even Brazeau.

Excellent drafting (and scouting) and yet where are any of these guys? There was so much bype around Timashov remember? Like legit excitement.

Not many pan out. I personally don't think we've drafted excellently.

I agree 100%. The main issue is these guys are almost all boom or bust guys. There is no option to say "Well, his hands are not as good as we thought, but he can contribute on the 3rd or 4th line and be a mucker". We have basically the same players being drafted over and over again hoping for the Debrincat or Caulfield to show the idea works. Only the last couple of drafts have they eschewed this idea for size with Knies and Minten.

Look at the board battles when Malgin and Kerfoot are out there...they get shoved around and barely touch the puck. When we say this team is soft...THAT's what we mean by soft. Not "Go get us a Simmonds who can still play and fight"....just get us someone who can actually impose his will once in a while.

Someone made a good point the other day when he said that Keefe tells all 4 lines to play the same possession style hockey when it really should be only the top 2 lines doing it. Engvall has it in his head that he is Mario Lemieux when he has the puck...why do you think that "Mr.Turn-Back" does that kind of stuff when he should be chipping and chasing with his size and speed?

 

[Menzinger]

His brain cancer is irrelevant in the sense that he should not have been the pick. Schneider was the obvious choice at the time, and looks even better with hindsight.

Amirov's health is extremely unfortunate, but it doesn't give Dubas a pass for missing on a blatantly obvious pick.

Though that's not quite true is it? Majority of pre draft rankings had Amirov ahead. And then 3 other teams passed on Schneider after the Leafs selection.

Debatable maybe, but not obvious.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Easy comment to type.... Could you back it up your opinion with hard facts?

I think you quoted the wrong person. My post didn't have an opinion. It was a hard fact, that everybody in a group of people does not think something just because one individual personally thinks something. The individual I replied to is the one who typed an opinion that he refused to back up with any facts. He just attempted to speak for thousands of people.

 

[Anthrax442]

 

[Anthrax442]

He is ripe

 

[leafsfan5]

That Kadri trade and Tavares signing are moves that will haunt this franchise for years to come.

If Matthews leaves I don’t know what I’ll do as a fan.

Losing Matthews would suck but let's be honest here, we haven't done anything with him. His rockets and MVP don't mean anything for the team, we still haven't won a damn round. He plays a sizeable role in our failure given his playoff performance + cap hit

If he leaves, he leaves. He's an absolute superstar and I really hope we retain him, but if we lose him it is what it is. Not like we set the world on fire with him here

 

[Antropovsky]

I think you quoted the wrong person. My post didn't have an opinion. It was a hard fact, that everybody in a group of people does not think something just because one individual personally thinks something. The individual I replied to is the one who typed an opinion that he refused to back up with any facts. He just attempted to speak for thousands of people.

I got the right poster...

But your right.... It is unclear what your stance was, I'll attempt to clarify first by asking you this question:

Do you disagree with the post that the leafs are one of the softest teams to play against? Or do you agree they are one of the softest but just angry that the poster spoke for an entire group of people?

 

[Anthrax442]

Losing Matthews would suck but let's be honest here, we haven't done anything with him. His rockets and MVP don't mean anything for the team, we still haven't won a damn round. He plays a sizeable role in our failure given his playoff performance + cap hit

If he leaves, he leaves

We will have Marner.

 

[TheShape]

His brain cancer is irrelevant in the sense that he should not have been the pick. Schneider was the obvious choice at the time, and looks even better with hindsight.

Amirov's health is extremely unfortunate, but it doesn't give Dubas a pass for missing on a blatantly obvious pick.

The general consensus on Schneider was bang on. Not a guy filled with high end game changing skill but a player who ticks a lot of boxes and wouldn't be that far off making the jump to the NHL.
Dubas and co. would never use a 1st round pick on a player of that profile as they most likely felt they could find that later in the draft or via UFA.

For the record I like Amirov, but Schneider was the pick for me, given our timeline.

 

[Stephen]

It's not literally about height though is it really? Like no one would call Engvall small.

But he's small.

Maybe I should've said soft.

But the point stands. Remember when everyone was excited about Abruzzese joining the team. And SDA, Miettinen, Abramov, Hirvonen, Niemela, Kokkonen, even Brazeau.

Excellent drafting (and scouting) and yet where are any of these guys? There was so much bype around Timashov remember? Like legit excitement.

Not many pan out. I personally don't think we've drafted excellently.

I find there's some odd Leaf monoculture where almost everyone who comes up through the system has that amiable play between the whistles, clean cut mentality. They even seem to steer clear of jerk personalities like Corey Perry in free agency.

 

[Stephen]

We will have Marner.

Life without Matthews, but with Marner. Not exactly the way I'd draw it up.

 

[4thline]

Life without Matthews, but with Marner. Not exactly the way I'd draw it up.

Nor I. But that being said- if this season goes down the tubes scrubbed we're kind of at the intersection of a point where re-signing Matthews gets a whole lot more uncertain and the last moment he can be traded with multiple years of value before he controls his destiny.
His value + gambling on Marner seizing the limelight/having his Gilmour/Yzerman maturation to drive a line solo makes me think it wouldn't be the end of the world.

I'd still prefer to move Marner keep Matthews and roll the dice, but you can make the case either way