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ATD 2022 DRAFT THREAD I

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ImporterExporter said:
I was very impressed with the studies HO did on his playoff contributions along with the adjusted save % metrics. He was very good in the playoffs. My #4 all time at the position behind Roy, Hasek, and Plante. To me, Brodeur is Glenn Hall (his longevity and # of times starting 70 games are absurd, like Hall) with an upgraded resume in the postseason.
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I have more love for Sawchuk than you do, but regardless, I agree that Hall = Brodeur. Hasek was better at his peak, of course, but I'd rather have a Brodeur-like G on my franchise.
 
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zffssk said:
I have more love for Sawchuk than you do, but regardless, I agree that Hall = Brodeur. Hasek was better at his peak, of course, but I'd rather have a Brodeur-like G on my franchise.
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In terms of value, Hall=Brodeur probably. In terms of style, Brodeur is likely a weaker puck stopper than other goalies ranked similarly, while being better at puckhandling/puck moving.

Another difference, Hall is probably better suited for a team that gives up lots of shots
 
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zffssk said:
I have more love for Sawchuk than you do, but regardless, I agree that Hall = Brodeur. Hasek was better at his peak, of course, but I'd rather have a Brodeur-like G on my franchise.
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Terry was a bit volatile to me, with less longevity, which is why I have him 6th all time, but his peak is up there with any of them.
 
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TheDevilMadeMe said:
Last of the "traditional #1 defensemen"* available:

*from back when ATD was bigger

Bill Gadsby, D

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Hard hitting, high scoring defenseman who transitioned to being more of a stay-at-home guy later in his career.

3x 1st Team All Star
4x 2nd Team All Star

Peaked at more or less the same time as Harvey and Kelly.
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Not sure why he doesn't get more credit as a two-way player. Granted, it was a shift in style, but he was still very capable of each role, and Yzerman is given two-way credit after a style shift. Maybe it's a recency bias.
 
ImporterExporter said:
Terry was a bit volatile to me, with less longevity, which is why I have him 6th all time, but his peak is up there with any of them.
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I agree that he was volatile, but the more I've learned about Sawchuk's mental health issues, the more respect I hold for him. I can't help but wonder if he was something of a victim of his era. His struggles would be taken more seriously today, and he might have fared better as a result. To do what he did with the struggles he had is absolutely remarkable in my book.
 
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TheDevilMadeMe said:
In terms of value, Hall=Brodeur probably. In terms of style, Brodeur is likely a weaker puck stopper than other goalies ranked similarly, while being better at puckhandling/puck moving.

Another difference, Hall is probably better suited for a team that gives up lots of shots
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Possibly, regarding the puck stopping comment. Those goalie studies really shined a light on how underrated Brodeur was there. And as you mentioned, his puck moving is probably the greatest of all time and that is very underrated by most. The league literally created rules to limit where a goalie could play the puck because Brodeur was so damn good at it. That's a big bullet point for him IMO.

But yeah, you really can't go wrong with any of Hall, Marty, Terry. I've always said there is the clear 1-2 at the top, Plante on his own little tier as the #3 guy, and then a slight drop into the next group of 3 (some may say 5).
 
Professor What said:
I agree that he was volatile, but the more I've learned about Sawchuk's mental health issues, the more respect I hold for him. I can't help but wonder if he was something of a victim of his era. His struggles would be taken more seriously today, and he might have fared better as a result. To do what he did with the struggles he had is absolutely remarkable in my book.
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Oh absolutely. People today are still left out in the cold regarding mental health struggles. It's a human tragedy IMO.
 
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Professor What said:
I agree that he was volatile, but the more I've learned about Sawchuk's mental health issues, the more respect I hold for him. I can't help but wonder if he was something of a victim of his era. His struggles would be taken more seriously today, and he might have fared better as a result. To do what he did with the struggles he had is absolutely remarkable in my book.
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Just because we talk about it more doesn’t mean we handle the any better.
 
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Dreakmur said:
Just because we talk about it more doesn’t mean we handle the any better.
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That's true, and I've been on the receiving end of some of that, but acknowledging it is better than ignoring it trying to pretend it doesn't exist. We're nowhere near where we need to be with it, but it's certainly better than it used to be. That just needs to be continued.
 
zffssk said:
How would you describe his skillset? Just for my info. Kind of hard to get a read on his style.
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Near equally strong at passing and shooting, fast, strong backchecker, just a bit of toughness.

As close to a jack-of-all trades as you can get, really.

All in a LW package (though technically, he can play C, but you'd have to be crazy to do it)
 
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TheDevilMadeMe said:
Near equally strong at passing and shooting, fast, strong backchecker, just a bit of toughness.

As close to a jack-of-all trades as you can get, really.

All in a LW package (though technically, he can play C, but you'd have to be crazy to do it)
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Thanks. His toughness especially I wasn't so clear about. There are some quotes saying he was very strong, but nothing overly conclusive.
 
La Sainte-Flanelle, alias Les Canadiens de Montréal will select another strong leader and team captain, a 3-times "Retro Conn Smythe" winner, heart and soul power-on-power center and greatest faceoff man of all-time, Ted "Teeder" Kennedy, C.

b4b2963dddd7ad06082d0f0556a7da9c.jpg


Some quotes dug by TDMM in the old Top 60 Project:

In his first season, the 18-year-old finished second on the team in scoring and then in his sophomore year was considered the star of Toronto's upset of the record-breaking Montreal Canadiens of 1944-45. He would establish himself as the leader of the team and became captain in 1948. Although not the best skater in the league, Kennedy was a fierce fore-checker and skilled playmaker
Although Kennedy was not a gifted skater, he compensated with a fierce determination and tireless hard work.[34] Among modern era players his style of play has been compared to Bobby Clarke[35] and Jarome Iginla.[36] Line-mate Howie Meeker said that while he was a much better skater than Kennedy, "He went from A to B just as fast I could because he went through people".[1] Kennedy would prove to be a perfect fit into coach Hap Day's coaching style of emphasizing defense, positional hockey and physical play.[37] He brought to the Leafs a classy, humble leadership[38] and the knack for scoring goals when they were most needed.[39] He would fight for every inch of ice[40] and was difficult to separate from the puck.[38] He was also known for his agility,[41] stick-handling,[42] playmaking,[43] passing skills and physical toughness.[1]

Dick Irvin once compared the styles of Syl Apps, previous captain of the Leafs, to Kennedy in how the two centres used their wingers. "Apps used to hit the defense at top speed and Gordie Drillon would come along and pick up the garbage", said Irvin. Whereas Kennedy would "go into the corners and get the puck out to their wings."[44]... Kennedy was also widely believed to be the best faceoff man in hockey[39][46] and would seldom lose an important faceoff.[47][48] Along with his regular shift, he would also kill penalties.[49]

Playoff performer[edit]
Kennedy had the reputation for excelling in the playoffs.[53][74] He was the first player in NHL history to win five Stanley Cups and by just age 22 he had already won three Stanley Cups .[49] Kennedy holds the Toronto Maple Leafs' all-time record for career points in Stanley Cup finals with 23.[228][229] He is the youngest player in the history of the NHL to have scored a Stanley Cup winning goal when he scored the winning goal of game 6 in 1947 at 21.4 years of age.[230] Until the Pittsburgh Penguins won the Stanley Cup in 2009, with 22-year-old Sidney Crosby as captain, Kennedy shared the honours with Wayne Gretzky as the youngest captains to have won the Cup.[231] In 2001 The Hockey News assembled a panel of five hockey experts to choose the winners of a "would-be" Conn Smythe Trophy, for best playoff performance, had the trophy been awarded prior to the 1964–65 season. Using microfilms of newspapers of the day and studying statistics and quotes from writers and coaches they chose winners from 1917–18 to 1963–64. Of the players chosen more than once, only Kennedy was chosen as many as three times for his playoff performances in 1945, 1947 and 1948.[42] He is fourth all-time in playoff goals and sixth all-time in points for the Maple Leafs[232]

Face-off skills[edit]

His face-off skills were highly regarded and, since during Kennedy's era there were many more face offs than there are today, it was invaluable. The April 27, 1998, issue of Sport Illustrated published "The Best Ever on the Draw", a poll of NHL experts of the top ten players of all time for skills on the faceoff, and Kennedy was ranked at #1.[233] Lloyd Percival once called Kennedy the "Billy the Kid" of hockey.[234] Derek Sanderson, considered the best at faceoffs in the late 60s and 70s, related how his father had him watch Kennedy on the TV to learn the skill.[233] In a 1987 interview Kennedy told a reporter, "I went all-out at face-offs. Your centre is your quarterback and our other guys knew exactly what I was trying to do."[48] In the 1970s, GM of the Leafs, Jim Gregory asked Kennedy if he would help the team to improve their face-off performance. Kennedy agreed but with one stipulation. "This can't involve (just) the centermen. It has to involve all five guys," Kennedy told Gregory and coach Roger Neilson. "Everyone has to be in tune. Everybody has a job to do. This is a team."[235]

---

"Hey Captain Syl, Leswick snarled, "I got a present for you."

He hauled back his right fist and belted Kennedy right between the eyes. Kennedy dropped his stick and piled into Leswick. Both were put off for fighting. Detroit didn't score in the remaining 12 seconds, but after a minute and one second of the next overtime period, Ted Lindsay fired the winning goal. Ted Kennedy is the "take charge guy" on the Toronto team and it was disorganized without him.​
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zffssk said:
La Sainte-Flanelle, alias Les Canadiens de Montréal will select another strong leader and team captain, a 3-times "Retro Conn Smythe" winner, heart and soul power-on-power center and greatest faceoff man of all-time, Ted "Teeder" Kennedy, C.

b4b2963dddd7ad06082d0f0556a7da9c.jpg


Some quotes dug by TDMM in the old Top 60 Project:
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Well there goes that dream. Good choice.
 
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zffssk said:
La Sainte-Flanelle, alias Les Canadiens de Montréal will select another strong leader and team captain, a 3-times "Retro Conn Smythe" winner, heart and soul power-on-power center and greatest faceoff man of all-time, Ted "Teeder" Kennedy, C.

b4b2963dddd7ad06082d0f0556a7da9c.jpg
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Kennedy will probably wear the "C" for this team, with Clapper demoted to an "A".

Just too good a fit next to Bobby Hull to pass up.
 
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Kennedy ticks so many boxes:

Right-handed center
Greatest faceoff man in history
Leadership
Toughness
Playoffs
Fits with Bobby Hull
Can play power on power

Just the guy to get things done.

He and Clapper should silence any question on the character of this Montreal team.
 
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