ATD 2021 Draft Thread III
- Thread starter ImporterExporter
- Start date
- Status
I had meant those 2 were the main ones I was targeting since the beginning of the draft, but as I began developing my core it was obvious Day made the most sense for my roster.
Professor What
Registered User
Voight
#winning
Hawkey Town 18
Registered User
Chicago selects Duke Keats, C
A summary by TDMM:
Keats was a dominant player in the Big-4 and WCHL for most of his career. His accomplishments in more known leagues bookending this time - the NHA as a rookie and sophmore player (top 5 offensive player in the NHA both seasons) and the NHL as a 31 and 32 year old (top 10 offensive player in the consolidated NHL both season) - is pretty compelling evidence that Keats was probably a top 10 offensive player in the world in every season that he played hockey between 1915-16 and 1927-28. He may have been the best offensive player in the world in 1921-22, but it's hard to tell. We also have evidence that Keats was considered a strong back checker over the course of his career, beginning with his rookie season.
Keats was inducted into the HHOF in 1958, before his contemporary Cy Denneny.
A summary by TDMM:
- Top 5 scorer in the NHA in 1916 and 1917 when the NHA was one of two professional leagues. (1917 is projected from where he was when he left to fight WW1)
- Missed 2 more full years due to WW1.
- Came back and dominated the Big-4 semi-amateur league and was offered a huge contract to come back East to the now-NHL (which he seems to have declined). The Big 4 contained several HHOFers in their 20s and was likely paying its stars under the table.
- Star in the professional WCHL for 5 straight seasons
- Might have been the best player in the world in 1921-22 - hard to tell, the league was clearly the weakest of the 3 professional leagues at this point, but Keats flat out owned it.
- Definitely the best forward in the WCHL in 1922-23 - the league was a bit weaker than the PCHA still.
- Top 3 scorer in the WCHL in 1923-24 (when it was much stronger than the PCHA), and again in 1924-25 when it had absorbed the PCHA.
- 6th in scoring in the WCHL in 1925-26 as a 30 year old.
- After the fall of the WCHL, Keats finished 9th in 10th in a consolidated NHL at the ages of 31 and 32.
Keats was a dominant player in the Big-4 and WCHL for most of his career. His accomplishments in more known leagues bookending this time - the NHA as a rookie and sophmore player (top 5 offensive player in the NHA both seasons) and the NHL as a 31 and 32 year old (top 10 offensive player in the consolidated NHL both season) - is pretty compelling evidence that Keats was probably a top 10 offensive player in the world in every season that he played hockey between 1915-16 and 1927-28. He may have been the best offensive player in the world in 1921-22, but it's hard to tell. We also have evidence that Keats was considered a strong back checker over the course of his career, beginning with his rookie season.
Keats was inducted into the HHOF in 1958, before his contemporary Cy Denneny.
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
Hawkey Town 18
Registered User
Keats was known as a good back checker, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about him centering a traditional checking line with Corey Perry on the wing. Fortunately, my team is set up for our 2nd line to get the toughest matchups so I think he's a good fit.
Dreakmur
Registered User
How many sources do we have for Keats' defensive play? There's so many guys from the split leagues that have much better reputations that him. Not everyone from that era can be good defensively...
I've got Keats ahead of Hawerchuk. Same offense, plus toughness. He does have speed and penalty issues, so he's probably a bit harder to build around. He and Perry make a pretty slow combination.
Dreakmur
Registered User
So Giroux isn't a RW, but Kesler is?
I strongly considered Kesler with my pick, even knowing he'd be on my 4th line and not my 3rd. He was, in my view, the last super-elite PKer. His offensive output is really bad, so I went another direction.
BenchBrawl
Registered User
- Jul 26, 2010
- 31,079
- 14,057
VanIslander
20 years of All-Time Drafts on HfBoards
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
I'm not 100% sure. Not my pick, just posting it as it's been posted in the past.
I see Van mentioned he was a Selke finalist as a RW, so if that's the case, I'd say it's a good bullet point.
Dreakmur
Registered User
Sundin only played half the season.
BenchBrawl
Registered User
- Jul 26, 2010
- 31,079
- 14,057
I keep looking at Bobby Hull footage. Strictly visually, his slapshot weight transfer is the most simultaneously violent and smooth (one move, no break) I have ever seen. I think it's possible to instinctively calculate the power of a shot based on the movement and posture of the player, and Bobby Hull is the most terrifying I have seen, followed by MacInnis.
He just had the musculoskeletal shape that gave him a better shot than anyone today for sure. Probably a matter of infinitesimal angles of how your bones and posture are put together that give you extra mobility and weight transfer. Something you can't gain by practicing or training.
He just had the musculoskeletal shape that gave him a better shot than anyone today for sure. Probably a matter of infinitesimal angles of how your bones and posture are put together that give you extra mobility and weight transfer. Something you can't gain by practicing or training.
Last edited:
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
I'll pick a guy in the short conversation for greatest defensive RWs of all-time in Ed Westfall, RW
Westfall had some success shadowing older Bobby Hull, both regular season and playoffs.
He also has a pretty good case for the best PKing forward of all-time, killing 60% of his team's penalties for teams 14% better than average, over the course of his long 1226 game career. That 60% is #2 all-time among forwards, behind a guy who played for generally awful expansion teams.
His even strength scoring isn't great, but it's a little bit better than Gainey's
Old bio: ATD 2014 - the Bios Thread
Westfall had some success shadowing older Bobby Hull, both regular season and playoffs.
He also has a pretty good case for the best PKing forward of all-time, killing 60% of his team's penalties for teams 14% better than average, over the course of his long 1226 game career. That 60% is #2 all-time among forwards, behind a guy who played for generally awful expansion teams.
His even strength scoring isn't great, but it's a little bit better than Gainey's
Old bio: ATD 2014 - the Bios Thread
Last edited:
tinyzombies
Registered User
Elmer Vasko
Nickname: Moose
Height: 6'3'' .. adjusted to 6'5", 230
Weight: 200 lbs
Position: Defense
Shoots: Left
Date of Birth: December 11th, 1935
Place of Birth: Duparquet , Quebec, Canada
Memorial Cup Champion (1954)
JOHA First All-Star Team (1955, 1956)
Stanley Cup Champion (1961)
Stanley Cup Finalist (1965)
NHL Second All-Star Team (1963, 1964)
Played in NHL All-Star Game (1961, 1963, 1964, 1969)
Team Captain (1968-1969)
Top-5 Scoring Among Defenceman (5th, 6th)
Top-5 Goalscoring Among Defenceman (4th, 7th)
Top-5 Assists Among Defenceman (3rd, 6th)
Top-5 Penalty Minutes Among Defenceman (4th)
Calder Memorial Trophy:
1956-57: 7th position (Larry Regan)
James Norris Memorial Trophy:
1959-60: 10th position (Doug Harvey) (1 vote)
1960-61: 9th position (Doug Harvey) (5 votes)
1961-62: 13th position (Doug Harvey) (3 votes)
1962-63: 4th position (Pierre Pilote) ([20-8])
1963-64: 3rd position (Pierre Pilote) ([21-7])
1964-65: 10th position (Pierre Pilote) (1 vote)
Professional Career:
Legends of Hockey said:
Elmer Vasko was a large, fast, and skilled defenseman who came up through the Chicago Blackhawks farm system. At 6'3" Vasko was a huge man for his time. The Chicago fans likened his up-ice charges to that of a moose. Yet, for his first three seasons in Chicago the stay was not particularly pleasant. The team was in one of the darkest spots in club history. Last place finishes were common and the chances of making the playoffs were bleak. To make matters worse, Vaske could not play to his full capacity. He had to wear a special shoulder harness just to play a shift. After his shoulder surgery in 1959 Vasko improved vastly.
Vasko's improved play coincided with the improvement in the Blackhawks. He was partnered with Pierre Pilote to form one of the toughest defensive tandems in the league. The result was a Stanley Cup victory in 1961.
Nickname: Moose
Height: 6'3'' .. adjusted to 6'5", 230
Weight: 200 lbs
Position: Defense
Shoots: Left
Date of Birth: December 11th, 1935
Place of Birth: Duparquet , Quebec, Canada
Memorial Cup Champion (1954)
JOHA First All-Star Team (1955, 1956)
Stanley Cup Champion (1961)
Stanley Cup Finalist (1965)
NHL Second All-Star Team (1963, 1964)
Played in NHL All-Star Game (1961, 1963, 1964, 1969)
Team Captain (1968-1969)
Top-5 Scoring Among Defenceman (5th, 6th)
Top-5 Goalscoring Among Defenceman (4th, 7th)
Top-5 Assists Among Defenceman (3rd, 6th)
Top-5 Penalty Minutes Among Defenceman (4th)
Calder Memorial Trophy:
1956-57: 7th position (Larry Regan)
James Norris Memorial Trophy:
1959-60: 10th position (Doug Harvey) (1 vote)
1960-61: 9th position (Doug Harvey) (5 votes)
1961-62: 13th position (Doug Harvey) (3 votes)
1962-63: 4th position (Pierre Pilote) ([20-8])
1963-64: 3rd position (Pierre Pilote) ([21-7])
1964-65: 10th position (Pierre Pilote) (1 vote)
Professional Career:
Legends of Hockey said:
Elmer Vasko was a large, fast, and skilled defenseman who came up through the Chicago Blackhawks farm system. At 6'3" Vasko was a huge man for his time. The Chicago fans likened his up-ice charges to that of a moose. Yet, for his first three seasons in Chicago the stay was not particularly pleasant. The team was in one of the darkest spots in club history. Last place finishes were common and the chances of making the playoffs were bleak. To make matters worse, Vaske could not play to his full capacity. He had to wear a special shoulder harness just to play a shift. After his shoulder surgery in 1959 Vasko improved vastly.
Vasko's improved play coincided with the improvement in the Blackhawks. He was partnered with Pierre Pilote to form one of the toughest defensive tandems in the league. The result was a Stanley Cup victory in 1961.
Last edited:
Professor What
Registered User
/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/sports/hockey/2011/04/07/original_nordique_adam_foote_to_retire_after_19_seasons/adam_foote_coloradoavalanche.jpeg)
MadArcand
Whaletarded
Thanks for making the pick.
He'll center Ramsay and Lehtinen, so the RW is purely there as carryover from previous drafts.
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
Pittsburgh is going to fill the bench boss with a man who I have pretty decent knowledge on, given he just happened to be my most thorough, rewarding, and almost surely important biography done to date. Looks like he'll be the 12th coach off the board this year and I'm more than comfortable with that placement (currently put him in the 6-10 range)
Reading the entirety of what is now available on this gentlemen, you get a distinct, pre consolidation version/feel of Toe Blake. This is NOT meant to say they are on the same level. That would be extreme, as winning a ton of SC's during the 06 era is much more impressive than winning a bunch pre consolidation. Still, both coaches held the reigns on 2 pretty distinctive dynasties (offensive/defensive). They were both by the book, but highly, highly respected and both made many important tactical contributions to the game.
This man was a tough coach, though immensely respected by his players and even rivals. You'll see in the bio below the many instances that attest to this. He coached 2 distinct dynasties for Ottawa, first from 1909 through 1913 winning a pair of Cup challenges (09 and 11) with a cyclonic attack structure that blew the doors off the league offensively.
He then left coaching from 1914 to 1919 when he would rejoin Ottawa (now the Senators) for the 1920 season. Over the next 5 years the Sens would win 3 more titles, this time in best of series more in the more traditional fashion we see today. In this era, his team's used what we now know today, the trap.
Prior to my bio, his involvement with Ottawa during the 20's was unclear. That has been fully fleshed out and boosts his stock tremendously IMO.
His innovations on the game were many, and a few, very critical. He used and was later banned from using a megaphone to communicate directly with his player son the ice. He was very likely the first coach to have and use substitutes to keep players fresh (this well prior to rolling 3 and 4 lines). He was an incredible scout and had an eye for talent and on top of that, developed multiple HOF'ers from rookie status onward.
He's almost certainly the creator of the trap during the 20s dynasty, to obvious major success. And it's survived the test of time, even today, 100 years later.
One of the coolest early tidbits was that this man was responsible for converting Cyclone Taylor from F to D to take advantage of his blinding speed and overall elite skill. And Taylor went on to have major success from the back end before eventually returning to the F position. One would think this coach will enjoy having Bobby Orr to fill the role Taylor played.
Pittsburgh is thrilled to announce our Head Coach!
Pete Green, coach
If you can spare 20 or 30 minutes, I'm quite proud of this bio from last year.
Pete Green 2020 bio
COACHING RECORD - 1ST TIME WITH OTTAWA (1909-1913)
1909:
10-2 (1st in ECAHA - 4 teams)
117 Goals For - 1st in league, +35 ahead of 2nd
63 Goals Against -2nd in league, -2 behind 1st
SC CHAMPIONS
1910:
9-3 (2nd in NHA - 7 teams)
89 GF - 3rd in league, -7 behind 1st
66 GA - 3rd in league, -25 behind 1st
CO-SC CHAMPIONS
Def Gault 15-4 over 2 games during 1st SC challenge
Def Edmonton 21-11 over 2 games during 2nd SC challenge
Lost Cup to Wanderers who won NHA regular season title
1911:
13-3 (1st in NHA - 5 teams)
122 GF - 1st in league, +31 ahead of 2nd
69 GA - 2nd in league, -7 behind 2nd
O'BRIEN TROPHY (NHA TITLE)
SC CHAMPIONS
1912:
9-9 (T2nd in NHA - 4 teams)
99 GF - 1st in league, +4 ahead of 2nd
83 GA - 3rd in league, -17 behind 1st
1913:
9-11 (T3rd in NHA - 6 teams)
87 GF - 3rd in league, -25 behind 1st
81 GA - T2nd in league, -6 behind 1st
TOTALS:
50-28 - .641 W%
514 GF
362 GA
+152
COACHING RECORD - 2ND TIME WITH OTTAWA (1920-1925)
1920:
19-5 (1st in NHL - 4 teams)
121 Goals For - 2nd in league, -8 behind 1st
64 Goals Against - 1st in league, +42 ahead of 2nd
SC CHAMPIONS (Won 7 game series vs Seattle 4-3)
1921:
14-10 (2nd in NHL - 4 teams)
97 GF - 3rd in league, -15 behind 1st
75 GA - 1st in league, +24 ahead of 2nd
SC CHAMPIONS (Won 5 game series vs Vancouver 3-2)
1922:
14-8-2 (1st in NHL - 4 teams)
106 GF - 1st in league, +8 ahead of 2nd
84 GA - 1st in league, +13 ahead of 2nd
LOST IN NHA PLAYOFF (Toronto)
1923:
14-9-1 (1st in NHL - 4 teams)
77 GF - 3rd in league, -5 behind 1st
54 GA - 1st in league, +7 ahead of 2nd
WON IN NHA PLAYOFF (Montreal)
SC CHAMPIONS (Won 5 game series vs Vancouver 3-1)
1924:
16-8 (1st in NHL - 4 teams)
74 GF - 1st in league, +11 ahead of 2nd
54 GA - 2nd in league, -6 behind 1st
LOST IN NHA PLAYOFF (Montreal)
1925:
17-12-1 (4th in NHL - 6 teams)
83 GF - 4th in league, -10 behind 1st
66 GA - 4th in league, -10 behind 1st
NO POSTSEASON
TOTALS:
94-52-4 - .627 W%
558 GF
397 GA
+161
GRAND TOTAL CAREER RECORD:
144-80-4 - .632 W%
(Just barely behind Toe Blake and well ahead of Lester Patrick, and many others already drafted)
GF - 1,072
GA - 759
+313
5 TIME SC CHAMPION (1909, 1911, 1920, 1921, 1923)
1 CO-SC CHAMPION (1910)
Reading the entirety of what is now available on this gentlemen, you get a distinct, pre consolidation version/feel of Toe Blake. This is NOT meant to say they are on the same level. That would be extreme, as winning a ton of SC's during the 06 era is much more impressive than winning a bunch pre consolidation. Still, both coaches held the reigns on 2 pretty distinctive dynasties (offensive/defensive). They were both by the book, but highly, highly respected and both made many important tactical contributions to the game.
This man was a tough coach, though immensely respected by his players and even rivals. You'll see in the bio below the many instances that attest to this. He coached 2 distinct dynasties for Ottawa, first from 1909 through 1913 winning a pair of Cup challenges (09 and 11) with a cyclonic attack structure that blew the doors off the league offensively.
He then left coaching from 1914 to 1919 when he would rejoin Ottawa (now the Senators) for the 1920 season. Over the next 5 years the Sens would win 3 more titles, this time in best of series more in the more traditional fashion we see today. In this era, his team's used what we now know today, the trap.
Prior to my bio, his involvement with Ottawa during the 20's was unclear. That has been fully fleshed out and boosts his stock tremendously IMO.
His innovations on the game were many, and a few, very critical. He used and was later banned from using a megaphone to communicate directly with his player son the ice. He was very likely the first coach to have and use substitutes to keep players fresh (this well prior to rolling 3 and 4 lines). He was an incredible scout and had an eye for talent and on top of that, developed multiple HOF'ers from rookie status onward.
He's almost certainly the creator of the trap during the 20s dynasty, to obvious major success. And it's survived the test of time, even today, 100 years later.
One of the coolest early tidbits was that this man was responsible for converting Cyclone Taylor from F to D to take advantage of his blinding speed and overall elite skill. And Taylor went on to have major success from the back end before eventually returning to the F position. One would think this coach will enjoy having Bobby Orr to fill the role Taylor played.
Pittsburgh is thrilled to announce our Head Coach!
Pete Green, coach
If you can spare 20 or 30 minutes, I'm quite proud of this bio from last year.
Pete Green 2020 bio
COACHING RECORD - 1ST TIME WITH OTTAWA (1909-1913)
1909:
10-2 (1st in ECAHA - 4 teams)
117 Goals For - 1st in league, +35 ahead of 2nd
63 Goals Against -2nd in league, -2 behind 1st
SC CHAMPIONS
1910:
9-3 (2nd in NHA - 7 teams)
89 GF - 3rd in league, -7 behind 1st
66 GA - 3rd in league, -25 behind 1st
CO-SC CHAMPIONS
Def Gault 15-4 over 2 games during 1st SC challenge
Def Edmonton 21-11 over 2 games during 2nd SC challenge
Lost Cup to Wanderers who won NHA regular season title
1911:
13-3 (1st in NHA - 5 teams)
122 GF - 1st in league, +31 ahead of 2nd
69 GA - 2nd in league, -7 behind 2nd
O'BRIEN TROPHY (NHA TITLE)
SC CHAMPIONS
1912:
9-9 (T2nd in NHA - 4 teams)
99 GF - 1st in league, +4 ahead of 2nd
83 GA - 3rd in league, -17 behind 1st
1913:
9-11 (T3rd in NHA - 6 teams)
87 GF - 3rd in league, -25 behind 1st
81 GA - T2nd in league, -6 behind 1st
TOTALS:
50-28 - .641 W%
514 GF
362 GA
+152
COACHING RECORD - 2ND TIME WITH OTTAWA (1920-1925)
1920:
19-5 (1st in NHL - 4 teams)
121 Goals For - 2nd in league, -8 behind 1st
64 Goals Against - 1st in league, +42 ahead of 2nd
SC CHAMPIONS (Won 7 game series vs Seattle 4-3)
1921:
14-10 (2nd in NHL - 4 teams)
97 GF - 3rd in league, -15 behind 1st
75 GA - 1st in league, +24 ahead of 2nd
SC CHAMPIONS (Won 5 game series vs Vancouver 3-2)
1922:
14-8-2 (1st in NHL - 4 teams)
106 GF - 1st in league, +8 ahead of 2nd
84 GA - 1st in league, +13 ahead of 2nd
LOST IN NHA PLAYOFF (Toronto)
1923:
14-9-1 (1st in NHL - 4 teams)
77 GF - 3rd in league, -5 behind 1st
54 GA - 1st in league, +7 ahead of 2nd
WON IN NHA PLAYOFF (Montreal)
SC CHAMPIONS (Won 5 game series vs Vancouver 3-1)
1924:
16-8 (1st in NHL - 4 teams)
74 GF - 1st in league, +11 ahead of 2nd
54 GA - 2nd in league, -6 behind 1st
LOST IN NHA PLAYOFF (Montreal)
1925:
17-12-1 (4th in NHL - 6 teams)
83 GF - 4th in league, -10 behind 1st
66 GA - 4th in league, -10 behind 1st
NO POSTSEASON
TOTALS:
94-52-4 - .627 W%
558 GF
397 GA
+161
GRAND TOTAL CAREER RECORD:
144-80-4 - .632 W%
(Just barely behind Toe Blake and well ahead of Lester Patrick, and many others already drafted)
GF - 1,072
GA - 759
+313
5 TIME SC CHAMPION (1909, 1911, 1920, 1921, 1923)
1 CO-SC CHAMPION (1910)
tabness
be a playa 🇵🇸
- Apr 4, 2014
- 3,094
- 5,523
I'll pick Ralph Backstrom. From what little I've watched of him, he was a pretty good finesse player, very good skater. Obviously played behind Beliveau and Richard for much of his career meaning he had to take a defensive role, which means his background is pretty much ideal for a defensive role in this thing. Only issue seems to be his size, but I got big players for matchups.
BenchBrawl
Registered User
- Jul 26, 2010
- 31,079
- 14,057
Underrated center. One of the most important players of the 1960s dynasty, arguably third behind Beliveau and Henri.
Dreakmur
Registered User
VanIslander
20 years of All-Time Drafts on HfBoards
The Jackals select the 1934-35 NHL 2nd team all-star defenseman who led the playoffs in scoring to the 1935 Stanley Cup victory.
And the 6'2 tall 4-time Stanley Cup renowned shot-blocking 1955 2nd team NHL all-star defenseman.
Cy "Cyclone" Wentworth & Bob Goldham
And the 6'2 tall 4-time Stanley Cup renowned shot-blocking 1955 2nd team NHL all-star defenseman.
Cy "Cyclone" Wentworth & Bob Goldham
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
- Status
