ATD 2021 Assassination Thread

[ResilientBeast]

New York Americans

Coach: Tommy Ivan
Toe Blake - Steven Stamkos - Gordie Howe (A)
Dany Heatley - Elmer Lach - Larry Aurie
Bob Pulford - Walt Tkaczuk - Tony Leswick
Vic Stasiuk - Eric Staal - Alexei Kovalev
Ryan O'Reilly - Ron Stewart

Zdeno Chara (C)- Tim Horton
Harvey Pulford (A)- Brent Burns
Vitali Davydov - Joe Hall
Reed Larson

Clint Benedict
Mar-Andre Fleury

PP
Gordie Howe - Elmer Lach
Steven Stamkos - Dany Heatley
Brent Burns

Toe Blake - Eric Staal - Alexei Kovalev
Joe Hall - Zdeno Chara

PK
Bob Pulford - Tony Leswick
Zdeno Chara - Tim Horton

Walt Tkaczuk - Larry Aurie
Harvey Pulford - Vitali Davydov

PK3
Toe Blake - Elmer Lach​

We've chatted privately about your squad, just to summarize my thoughts openly.

1st line - Very strong looking, I think moving Stamkos up was the right move to capitalize on Howe's offensive profile. Sure he's nothing special anything outside of offensively but Howe and Blake bring enough intangibles to make up for it. This is a line a coach can send out against any unit and expect positive things to happen

2nd line - Lach and Heatley look to be a pretty strong duo for a second line. Aurie brings more defense a grit as a third wheel. It looks pretty good, another unit your coach can send over the boards and expect them to hold their own.

3rd line - A heavy and tough physical line built to handle the forwards in your division. This is the unit you build if you've looked at your division and decided you want to go on a run, love it.

4th line - With your other 3 lines capable of taking tough matchups you've got a 4th line with competent offense who can go out their and feast on defensively soft competition, applying pressure and putting up points

1st pair - Another function of your division, you picked a good stylistic match out of two physical specimens who can handle the toughness of the powerforwards in your divisions. Talent wise it looks fantastic as both could pass as a 1D at 24 teams.

2nd pair - Take the first part of what I said about your 1st pair and paste (most of ) it here. Burns is a bit of defensive roller coaster and I'm not sure if Pulford is the kind of guy I want covering for him. They certainly are big and strong enough to handle the physicality and dish out some punishment but they aren't quite as rock solid defensively as I initially was thinking.

3rd pair - Joe Hall is going to get suspended and probably take someone with him given the forwards he's up against. I'd take him as a 4D without any questions so he's a luxury to have down on your bottom pairing. Davydov looks good here next to him.

Goalies - Benedict sits in that tier of "league average" goaltending with Gardiner and Vezina for me. He certainly won't lose you many games during this ATD. Fleury is a strong backup choice, if he's hot he looks great and despite all the drama surrounding him seems to be a good team player. The kind of goalie you want as a backup in this.

No issues with the special units.

Overall a very "classically" well-built team.

 

[nabby12]

Will at least give comments on all teams in my division so without any further ado



1st line - Not lacking in talent what so ever, Morenz's reputation seems to have grown from when I joined and he was considered a goal scoring center without much all around game. You've paired him with his real running mate in Joliat and the combo works. Not sure how I feel about Hull as their wing mate, a slower third wheel who doesn't contribute anything besides goal scoring doesn't seem like the ideal fit. But talent wise this is one of the best top lines IMO

2nd line - Krutov and Cowley are a great offensive duo for a second line.....Mosienko just doesn't belong IMO in the top 6 of a 24 teamer. He also doesn't bring anything to table to cover for his linemates. Krutov is probably average defensively....but Cowley is probably the worst center defensively in a top 6 right? The line is really dragged down by Mosienko, I guess it's a good thing the Morenz line can go power on power because Shero will need to shelter this line at ES.

3rd line - A collection of players I looked at during the draft. George Hay is finally getting the respect he deserves. Bernie Morris is the second best scorer in PCHA history (by the numbers). Looking at the line it has a lot of elements to be successful, Frederickson has some defensive ability but I feel he gets too much credit for the series against Morenz in 1925. Hay is solid checker, I have nothing on Morris's all around game but I haven't gotten to him in my PCHA project. Frederickson is big and strong but doesn't read a super physical guy. Hay and Morris also don't seem to be much in that department.

4th line - Another scoring-focused line? Talentwise it doesn't look too bad, no other real comments

1st pair - I was punching air when you took Stewart over Clapper and that mistake really stands out with the way the rest of your team shaped up. Stewart is not really in the same class as the 1Ds in this draft but would be a strong 2D. Hitchman is probably a 4D so this pair talent wise seems among the worst in the draft.

2nd pair - I don't rate Conacher that highly, I think he's still a low end 2D to high end 3D so he looks pretty good on your second pair. Horner seems like a lower end 4D. But on the strength of Conacher I think this is a strong pairing.

3rd pair - Strong looking third pairing, will be able to play quality minutes.

Goalies - Sawchuk is a workhorse and a top 5 goalie.

Special teams - Morenz-Joliat as a first unit PP and PK unit seems like a lot of minutes to give them.....and not sure I'd want their units spent that way. Frederickson also doesn't read as a PKer at all.

Thanks for the feedback!!

First off, very disrespectful comments towards Mosienko. You can make the BS soft claims on Cowley-Mosienko despite no one here ever seeing them play, but it's strictly false. Krutov-Cowley-Mosienko is at least an average second-line from what I've seen on here.
The other second-line RW's in my division are: Igor Larionov, Helmets Balderis, Yvan Cournoyer, Cecil Dillon, Mickey MacKay. Mosienko's not out-of-place at all and wouldn't be the worst of them.

Also, I don't quite understand where all your criticism of Black Jack Stewart comes from.

As @TheDevilMadeMe once said, "He was arguably the best defenseman of his era."

He was one of two defensemen in NHL history to be an All-Star both before and after the introduction of the red line, which is important as the new ability to pass forward between zones changed the way defensemen had to play.

Stewart was his team's top defenseman for two Stanley Cup's. He was also a three-time NHL First Team All-Star, three-time NHL Second Team All-Star, and with that he missed a few seasons of his prime because he was serving in World War II.

It should also be noted that he finished top 5 in All-Star voting every season he played from the ages of 25-32 before retiring due to injuries.

So yeah, he's an elite 1D. Are there better defensemen out there in this draft? Absolutely. Is he so-much worse than Dit Clapper because Clapper was a more significantly-known leader? Nope.

You keep punching the air though.

 

[Dreakmur]

Thanks for the feedback!!

First off, very disrespectful comments towards Mosienko. You can make the BS soft claims on Cowley-Mosienko despite no one here ever seeing them play, but it's strictly false. Krutov-Cowley-Mosienko is at least an average second-line from what I've seen on here.
The other second-line RW's in my division are: Igor Larionov, Helmets Balderis, Yvan Cournoyer, Cecil Dillon, Mickey MacKay. Mosienko's not out-of-place at all and wouldn't be the worst of them.

Also, I don't quite understand where all your criticism of Black Jack Stewart comes from.

As @TheDevilMadeMe once said, "He was arguably the best defenseman of his era."

He was one of two defensemen in NHL history to be an All-Star both before and after the introduction of the red line, which is important as the new ability to pass forward between zones changed the way defensemen had to play.

Stewart was his team's top defenseman for two Stanley Cup's. He was also a three-time NHL First Team All-Star, three-time NHL Second Team All-Star, and with that he missed a few seasons of his prime because he was serving in World War II.

It should also be noted that he finished top 5 in All-Star voting every season he played from the ages of 25-32 before retiring due to injuries.

So yeah, he's an elite 1D. Are there better defensemen out there in this draft? Absolutely. Is he so-much worse than Dit Clapper because Clapper was a more significantly-known leader? Nope.

You keep punching the air though.

Mosienko isn’t as good as any of those other guys playing RW.

He’s a lot better right winger than the center playing out of position in Larionov though...

 

[nabby12]

Mosienko isn’t as good as any of those other guys playing RW.

He’s a lot better right winger than the center playing out of position in Larionov though...

Cmon now, Cecil Dillon is not a better right winger than Mosienko. Just curious, what year did Dillon go into the HHOF? Give your head a shake, you're better than that.

 

[ImporterExporter]

To return the favour....

I won't dance around it to much I was super skeptical of the potential your team had after those first 3 picks and I think it turned out about as good as it could've up front. Though I assume you were sad when Selfishman scooped Stewart, I assumed you be the Nels team.

1st line - I read through jarek's bio on Martinec is a more recent one available? There's very little about his all around game in there and that will greatly change how I feel about this line. Malone we've sparred over already good goalscoring focused center and was a good pickup for you. Bucyk I'm just not a fan of I think his standing in this draft is a little overrated. I know you'll say he's playing with a goal scoring C in Malone and Bobby Orr so he doesn't need context around his VsX scores etc but as an offensive weapon he doesn't do much for me. Intangibly? Great corner man and physical presence which Malone and Martinec look like they're lacking. If Martinec has defensive chops I'd the line a bump a bit from where I have them now but otherwise seems heavily tilted towards all out offense. I guess the luxuries 3D start affords you.

2nd line - Your Cook research was interesting and definitely moves him past 3rd-wheel who's getting draft off the back of his lines accomplishments alone. Between him and Lemaire you've got strong defensive play from this line and Cournoyer is the more offense focused third wheel. The line looks like it checks all the boxes except talent...but again with a 3D start you did the best you could've.

3rd line - Probably the strongest scoring third line in the draft? Hawerchuk is a 2C and you've got him slumming it down here on the third line. Anderson is a that kamikaze "forward with strength" type who can convert on Hawerchuk's passes and Crawford is there to do the dirty work. Love this 3rd line.

1st pair - Fantastic. Next

2nd pair - I know you've been pumping Laperriere in the HOH project, I just don't quite see it with him. Siebert looks fantastic down here so it's naturally the strongest second pairing in the draft

3rd pair - Who cares

Goalies - Bower/Holmes should be able to guide your team through the RS as a strong platoon. And in the playoffs both goalies proved themselves over and over again so will punch above their weight there.

Now Pete Green....I'm not sure if he's the right coach for this team, the 1st and 3rd lines don't really mesh with his gameplans that well. I will read through your old bio before voting and perhaps revise my thoughts, but he just doesn't seem like the right coach for a team headlined with Orr and Seibert two rushing D on the backend.

Overall - unconventional and I'm sure going to be a pain to deal with in a PO series.

Much appreciated review sir!

1. Yeah, I know we had chatted a bit prior to the draft and Stewart-Kane/MSL was really the original target (Bucyk was always a target with a C like Stewart/Malone + Orr, even though he's not a sexy pick) for a C/RW combo so ending up with Malone/Martinec wasn't a horrible consolation haha.

I definitely don't mind Malone over Nels, if nothing else because Stewart is such a polarizing player and Malone is worth as much offensively at least, which is the primary factor for both. Kane was the guy I wanted at RW1 (great pick for BB btw) but Martinece/Maltsev were the main consolation prizes and getting Martinec in the 140's ended up being pretty good value, as was Maltsev for TDMM a few picks later. A key difference is the fact that Martinec seemed to handle the brutal attacks from the Soviets better over the years and while Malone is a scrappy player, he's not Nels Stewart who would be a better fit for someone like Maltsev who comes off as a more pure finesse type.

Speaking of Martinec, those bio's that exist are decent, especially jarek's but the key links he has posted at the bottom are all broken, some of which would highlight his defensive abilities and strong PK resume.

Posted this back on page 2 (post 50)
ATD 2021 Assassination Thread

a) Defense.
Not too long ago there wasn't any knowledge about Martinec's sound defensive play but some of us have been able to read the contemporary materials and find considerable evidence. Chronologically:

Gól magazine, post-WHC 1970, Martinec´s player description and evaluation:
"As a rookie of the team, he signaled that it´s possible to count on him in the National team. He´s calm enough when finishing offensive actions, also owns good defensive skills. He was injured so his performance had considerable fluctuations."

Nomination for WHC 1971 presented at Gól magazine, Martinec´s player description:
"Technical, creative player with great improvisational abilities and good defensive propensities."

Slovakian Hockey Yearbook 1972:

Vladimír Martinec. He is one of our most wittiest hockey players. By two assists on goals he contributed a great deal to the victory over USSR. He attacks and defends very well, has an intuition for the game, he is a constructive player. If he gains better conditioning and experience yet, he can become the backbone of CSSR team.

Early 1973, a prominent hockey columnist of the era and former National Team player, Miloslav Charouzd calls Martinec esentially one of the three best defensive forwards in the CSSR League. This is the biggest appreaciation of Martinec´s defensive efforts that can be possibly found. It´s also impressive because the article was written during the time when Martinec was on his way to win the League scoring and League title for this season. The key paragraph is bolded by me. I also decided to post or quote the entire article given its importance.

I´ll start with Miloslav Charouzd´s overview of basic types of forwards that you could mostly find in the League at the time, some descriptions may be interesting or useful to know. The first article bears the title: DOES THE IDEAL TYPE OF FORWARD EXIST?

“Just as every sporting collective game, hockey is also based not only on mutual cooperation of individuals but also on balance of different lines – of forwards and defensemen. That is why today, strictly one-way type of forward or defenseman is almost an extinct species. More and more a player is sought – the one who meets these tasks [offense and defense] according to team´s conception of the game. There are multiple ways to look at a hockey player. Technical and physical fundamentals are of course taken into account, but moreover a player´s age, nature, personal and moral qualities and all this is necessary to combine in order for a player to be advantageous to his team at all of its aspects. At least in the hint, let´s have a look at some of the most important evaluating factors of a forward, as one member of a hockey team.

The same uniform does not mean the uniformity of forwards. Should the forward line fulfill all of its duties, it has to have a constructive player setting up the pace, he could be named as a sort of on-ice thinker. Next forward must be the type of a shooter and both should be complemented by forward who has constantly on his mind an opportunity of effective defense. Representative of a constructive player who gives a pattern to the offensive game, who develops playing situations, who can release himself and his teammates – is without a doubt, Jaroslav Holík. He has excellent stickhandling technique, he does not avoid physical encounters, while he still maintains the view over the situation in the game and at the same time he´s being an important contributor and director of an active defense of the team. For this type of forward, it is typical having a much larger number of passes on goal than the actual realizations of goals by himself, which is also apparent on [players such as] Farda or Jiří Novák from Pardubice and Otte from Plzeň.

Forward–shooter should have primarily an innate sense for goal-scoring opportunities, sufficient self-confidence associated with a certain amount of aggressiveness and above all, he should never avoid responsibility of finishing offensive actions. From all of our top teams, Tesla Pardubice is the best of them at these accounts. Four shooters – Šťastný, Martinec, Paleček and Prýl – make each of Pardubice´s offensive lines extremely dangerous. Klapáč and Nový fulfills this function of distinctive finishing players in Dukla Jihlava, Slovan Bratislava relies on Haas in this regard, and Pouzar plays a similar role in Motor Č. Budějovice, and Eduard Novák with Nedvěd in Kladno.

Defender‘ is usually a good skater, as he covers comparatively large space in offensive and defensive zones. The player is usually well-built physically, has an advantage in continuous control of the puck, at the same time he acts as an ‚forward-playing antenna‘ of active defense of the team. Outstanding representatives of this type of forward – Jiří Holík and Martinec – have almost even ratio of goals scored and assists and their collective and responsible style of play for the team needs to be highly appreciated. Ševčík can calmly be measured with these players when it comes to work in defense. However today, we have started to require big effort, immediate counter-attacking skills even from a player securing defense in order for him to get into the scoring areas by himself or to selflessly create the shooting positions for his teammates.

Peaceful ones are the base – hotheaded ones are the spark. Do all the skillful types of forwards fit together temperamentally too? Could there play next to each other temperamentally the same players, such as for example Jaroslav Holík and Golonka? Every coach would probably suffer from a headache soon from this duo! But even these hotheads are needed for the team to a certain extent. No need to remind very much, just how much excitement prevailed or still prevails on the ice, when Golonka, Huck, Sterner or Esposito stepped in. What a constant source of tension are these heated characters. They all usually have a notable amount of playing ‚insolence‘, they do not suffer in no matter how important games they´re playing from a feeling of overly excessive commitments and they play without any hindrance, regardless of an opponent´s level of play.

Although necessarily, a calm stable player who doesn´t get irritated, must be next to them [i. e. next to ‚hotheads‘]. You can read these traits of the game of Klapáč, Brunclík or Paleček, players who easily adjust, submit and do not look for a conflict, rather look to avoid heated situations on ice.

Old and young. The eternal problem of the circle of life projects itself into the hockey team too. The inevitable exchange of players should be proceeding naturally, continuously, without deep swingings in performance of the team. Young players mean undeniably a certain part of unrest and excitement in the team. They are ambitious, they want to excel. Perhaps that´s why they´re more subjected to influence of the environment and their performances are imbalanced. I have seen indisputably gifted forwards Nový, Pouzar, Čížek, [Marián] Šťastný from Slovan playing outstanding games, only so that then immediately after they fail to play up to even the league average level. I believe that a good team should have in its core both hockey ‚rookies‘, as well as players around 30, whereas the ‚golden‘ hockey age is within the range of 24 – 26 years. The best in this regard are undoubtedly Tesla Pardubice and Dukla Jihlava where older players such as Prýl, Andrt, Klapáč and even Holíks with their routine and experience lead younger teammates – Veith, Čížek, Nový, Beránek, while the core of the team is made by the players from the ‚golden‘ middle age.

The team, in which the one generation of players has sustained itself for a long time – like the case of ZKL Brno – plays stereotypically over time, no new stimulus comes into their game and performance of the team has to stagnate. I don´t want to claim by this that a young player has to play at whatever cost. Firsov and Gordie Howe were great even after their 30, and for instance Maltsev, Tumba Johansson or Bobby Orr on the other hand were great already at 18 years. Decisive factor always has to be performance not an age of a player!

As we can see, the ideal type of forward or forward line, considering all the viewpoints, cannot even exist! To grab a certain type of player useful for the team is the big craft of a coach. Although often times even here, it is a necessary to deal with some compromise. Character of player cannot be restricted or suppressed, but to streamline and make of perfect use of his features to the one goal – success of the collective.“​

​

WHC 1975 in West Germany:

(...)
'He was a bad shooter <at first>, but when he got stronger for some reason, he became a national team player. He has a good hockey sense, and he always plays for the benefit of the team. The most important thing is that Martinec's work capacity is unbelievable - even a simpleton can see that he is always able to carry the puck over the blue line, but his defensive contribution is never understood,' said a journalist from Pardubice in Düsseldorf**.
Martinec is all <of these things>: when they started to give the Golden Stick (for the player of the year) in Czechoslovakia, the rules were made to favour defencemen... for four years, goal-scoring defencemen were preeminent - then came Martinec. (...)

Those are the specific updates in the last year+ on Martinec's defensive chops. I liken him to Hossa, except a notch better offensively/simply more explosive as a player, which is a big reason why I think he always outranks Hossa in projects of the past or the current one going on now. As I said earlier, there is a pretty good argument Martinec was the best RW in Europe from 72-77, which is so small feat considering he was winning 4 straight WC AS nods over Mikhailov (74/77).

Now look at the AS RW's in the NHL from 72 through 77

1972 1st team = Rod Gilbert
1973 = Mickey Redmond
1974 = Ken Hodge
1975 = Lafleur

From then on it's Lafleur dominating through 1980 but look at the 2nd team wingers from 74 through 77 (the absolute peak of Martinec)

1974 2nd team = Mickey Redmond
1975 = Rene Robert
1976 = Reggie Leach
1977 = Lanny McDonald

If you think Martinec at least on Mikhailov level from 72-77 then you can make the argument he was a top 3 RW in the world in 1972 through 1974. Better than Rod Gilbert, Mickey Redmond, and Ken Hodge who were 1st teamers in 72, 73 and 74? Yeah.

Once Lafleur started his dominance in 75, you can still call Martinec the likely 2nd/3rd best RW in the world from 75 through 77 given 2nd team AS's were the not so dominant 2nd group you see just above.

Been a big fan of Martinec for years (one of those guys I'll draft every year if he keeps going where he does) especially after the more in depth research yielded the information on his all around game including PK brilliance.


....


2. Yeah, no doubt the 2nd line is less than others on name talent. Collectively though, as you said they really check all the boxes and a key element is the elite skating across the board of the line. It's a line that is going to simply out skate a lot of opposing forwards and defenders.

And when I was constructing this line (Lemaire-Cournoyer was one of my pre draft combo's I wanted) I knew I'd have to supplement it with a 3rd line capable of producing at least similar offense to raise the team's aggregate value, which fortunately I was able to do with Hawerchuk and Anderson in particular.

The Chucky pick was one of the most fortunate gets for me IMO and while Crawford has a little less offense than I'd like, he brings crazy physical talent, strong checking in both directions and like the team theme, a ton of speed. He and Anderson in particular are going to be a real, real pain in the ass to deal over the course of a series. And with Anderson being a strong glue guy, I do have the option of subbing in Tanguay who would give the unit a more offensive slant if need be.

.....

3. Laperriere is sort of like Bucyk, though with stellar Norris/AS record. He's not sexy but just a rock solid all time player.

I'll spare you the long winded post haha, but I'm not sure why people aren't impressed with his post season record, especially considering he was not known as an offensive force which has long aided Dmen in vote getting.

His Norris record?

1, 2, 4, 4, 5, 5, 8, 9

AS record?

1, 1, 2, 2 (not sure if there are more depth finishes for this time period not listed)

I don't know how many guys have that kind of record, who weren't overly strong offensively, not yet ranked in the top 200 project. Especially those who played a key role on those 3 title teams in 4 years.

Consider on the title winning teams in 68, 69, and 71 he had the following:

47 games
21 points
+24

There are a ton of great posts on him here namely by overpass and tarheelhockey.

Top-200 Hockey Players of All-Time - Round 2, Vote 8

Here's my post outlining his rather insane usage as a player.

Top-200 Hockey Players of All-Time - Round 2, Vote 8

On the other hand, there are 17 defensemen in the top hundred on both usage charts. Sorted by the product of the two usages (PP% times PK%), they are - Orr, Bourque, Potvin, Leetch, Laperriere, Lidstrom, Pronger, Salming, Pilote, Lapointe, Blake, Larson, Chelios, Vadnais, Beck, Hatcher, Desjardins.

I think that really highlights how large a load Laperriere was carrying, especially given the Habs went to a more defensive minded philosphy during his career.

The only players who logged more of their team's share on the PP and PK are Orr, Bourque, Potvin, and Leetch. That's it from 1960 onward. A lot of huge names not up there.

And then figure he's 6th all time in ES usage post 1960!

If you consider he played 47% of his team's ES minutes, 3/4 of the of PK, and 1/2 of the PP, there's little doubt he was logging at least 30 minutes per game.

I'd be voting him in on the top 200 protect at this point as I don't see much of a difference between him and Pronovost. Once Prono went, I'm like yeah, Lappy should be on a lot of lists the next roun. Just my .02 of course!

....


Pete Green was such a versatile and tactically advanced coach. This is one of the highlights of the bio I think.

ATD2020 Bio Thread

If you look specifically at his 1st run as coach, he was the man who literally flipped Cyclone Taylor to the back end in Ottawa and you of all people know how good Taylor was in that role. Green (in my bio of course) was seeing Taylor having trouble adjusting to the F line in Ottawa and because of his blinding speed (like Orr) and offensive gifts, moved him to the back line, thus being able to really take advantage of his skating and extra ice to use.

Rushing Dmen were used heavily by Green, first Taylor, then Hamby Shore who took over for him.

Then even during the 2nd dyansty, Green had Cleghorn and Buck Boucher, hardly stay at home types. King Clancey was literally a Green discovery in the minor leagues and he was fully responsible for turning Clancy into the player he became (from the words of Clancey himself). And he wasn't the only one Green found and coached up.

Now of course that 2nd dynasty centered around Nighbor and the trap, but they didn't play that way during Green's first tenure. He preached what was essentially a 3rd F high (as you see in today's game more often) system, where a D went in hard (Taylor/Shore) and was covered up by a F.

As I said, a very advanced approach for the time period and a big reason why I think Green had so much success. He was simply ahead of his time.

This is why I made sure each F line had a defensively capable/average or outright good player (Martinec, Bucyk, Cook, Lemaire, Craword, Anderson, Metz, Goyette to name the applicable).



Thanks again for the review RB! Appreciate the time you took and the time you're spending on the projects beyond the ATD!

 

[overpass]

1st line - A discount 1st line C running with two excellent wingers. The unit is really relying on Moore to do the backchecking and be the physical presence which could be an issue during game situations. Seems like a little bit of a waste of Moore's offense using him as the third wheel offensively. Talent wise the line looks pretty decent, it is getting dragged down by Savard but Moore and Bossy keep it from looking out of place.

2nd line - I hate Larionov on RW, he's a center during his entire peak and then his twilight years Bowman moves him to RW. All the discussion about position moving and this one feels the most egregious to me. At least Nels Stewart had 2 of his top 4 seasons at LW. What are Larionov's accomplishments at wing? Fedorov is your teams best center and looks good on the second line. Kaspustin is a player I think a lot of people look to in the late stages of the draft to find a physical guy. Talent wise it all looks good, but Larionov on the wing is challenging for me.

3rd line - Fantastic two way scoring line here. A little light on physicality, but no weak link in this chain during critical moments in a game.

4th line - Energy line, makes up for some of the physicality lacking from the rest of the team.

1st pair - Kelly is obviously the feature piece of this unit and he'll have to do a lot of heavy lifting as Goldham is a 4D at 24 teams. But looking at the next unit it appears you went 1/4 & 2/3 so the poor talent of the second member of your top unit makes sense. Kelly will keep them from getting killed at ES. I don't know how I feel about partnering your best D with the worst one in your top 4 but that's more a strategic question than a fit one. Stylistically it looks pretty good to me

2nd pair - Kasatonov to baby sit Gonacher is a nice stylistic fit, Gonchar isn't the all around player Fetisov is but he wasn't terrible defensively at his peak. I like this pairing, it's strong at the expense of your top unit but will handle their minutes well.

3rd pair - Don't know much about Reise but 70s bio makes him read as a strong defensive D which looks to be a great fit with Carlson. Talent wise seems like a pretty decent pairing overall.

Goalies - Durnan is in that tier of that "just below league average" goalies so goaltending isn't a strength for this squad. Happy to see LeSueur as a backup.

Thanks for the review! It’s a fair assessment overall, and I’m not surprised by any of the criticisms. I would like to take the chance to respond to some points and explain what I see in these players and this team.

Denis Savard — A discount first line centre, fair enough. I’m going to lose this comparison in basically any playoff matchup (I assume, without checking every team). How much does he really drag down the talent level of the line though? He was certainly more talented than some of the centres picked ahead of them, though less of an all-around player. He was one of the elite scorers of the 80s and was named to the NHL top 100 players list. I understand he ranks behind a number of other centres, and I’m not even saying he should rank much higher than he did in the draft list due to the depth at centre, but he’s really not giving up much if any scoring talent compared to some other top centres. Also, he’s in a really good spot on the first line. He’s got an amazing pair of wingers who both played two-way hockey on really, really dominant units. And neither of them need to be the main puck handler, so Savard has free rein to work his magic, both at even strength and on the power play. He’s not miscast on a third line or trying to fit alongside a puck dominant winger.

I agree the first line is relying on Moore for physical play. I think Bossy is underrated as a two way player but he wasn’t physical.

Igor Larionov on RW. I understand the criticism. It looks out of place in a lineup at first glance. I get the idea that we should respect the history. I think Mats Sundin would have been an amazing winger but I wouldn’t draft him as a winger because he just didn’t do that in his career. I would just ask that you look at the line and the unit as a whole rather than just focusing on Larionov. The Russian Five was a big deal in hockey history. They played a big part in changing opinions and stereotypes about Russians and Europeans. They were a dominant and memorable unit who outscored opponents at a 2-1 rate. There’s a documentary about them that came out last year. The Fedorov-Larionov partnership was at the heart of the Russian Five, and that’s why I’ve reunited them here. I would compare this to playing Joe Malone at LW alongside Newsy Lalonde at C.

I love my third line. I think it’s a big strength of my team. Toews-Hossa was just a dominant two-way duo in Chicago, a huge part of those Cup winning teams. They could play higher in the lineup but they can play a third line game. I was originally going for a more physical LW like a Tonelli, but after I missed out on a couple of guys I doubled down on scoring with Demitra instead. Not physical but a very strong two-way ES player, with some Team Slovakia chemistry with Hossa.

I wouldn’t normally do the 1-4 2-3 on defence but once I decided to take Gonchar and go with a five man Russian unit, that’s what it was going to be. And it’s not really an uncommon setup in the NHL. Kelly and Goldham actually played together too.

 

[Dreakmur]

Cmon now, Cecil Dillon is not a better right winger than Mosienko. Just curious, what year did Dillon go into the HHOF? Give your head a shake, you're better than that.

I’m not sure Dillon isn’t the best of that whole bunch.

I think you’ll have to come with a lot of “intangibles” for Mosienko, since his offensive production is measurably mediocre for a 2nd line role.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Thanks for the review!

Only things I feel I should contest are bolded - actually in many ways this team can play like Lavi's best team (2006 Canes) - turbo offensive top-9 with turbo-defensive 4th line, defensive responsibility down the middle, powerful special teams, good skating all around, sneaky goaltending.

You're right on the comparisons! Thanks for having me go back and look at Lavi more closely. I do think he'd like more physicality all around but as you said, they fit a lot of the other rosters he's had in the past.

Also, that 2006 Canes team has to be the among worst blue lines in the history of SC winners, though Pitt wasn't that good the year Letang was hurt (2nd of the back to back). Headlined by Just Schultz, Trevor Daley, Ron Hainsey, Ian Cole, Olli Maatta and Brian Dumolin!!

 

[BenchBrawl]

I probably shouldn't wait until I get around do doing a bio on Toe Blake's coaching before posting my team here:

New Jersey Swamp Devils

Coach: Toe Blake

Sid Abel (A) - Jean Beliveau (C) - Bernie Geoffrion
Smokey Harris - Russell Bowie - Alexander Maltsev
Marty Pavelich - Anze Kopitar - Tony Amonte
Patrick Marleau - Phil Watson - Ed Westfall
Spares: Todd Bertuzzi, Jack Adams

*3rd and 4th lines swap wingers when playing against Bobby Hull

Serge Savard (A) - Pierre Pilote
Art Ross - Fern Flaman
Barry Beck - Si Griffis
spare: Nikolai Sologubov

Georges Vezina
Alec Connell

PP1: Sid Abel - Jean Beliveau - Alexander Maltsev - Bernie Geoffrion - Pierre Pilote
PP2: Patrick Marleau - Russell Bowie - Phil Watson - Art Ross - Si Griffis

PK1: Marty Pavelich* - Ed Westfall - Serge Savard - Fern Flaman
PK2: Anze Kopitar - Phil Watson - Barry Beck - Art Ross
PK spare: Alexander Maltsev - Patrick Marleau, Pierre Pilote

*See Pavelich's profile - he was shifted to C to shadow Jean Beliveau at one point. So he should be able to take faceoffs on penalties - in fact using an even strength winger at C on the PK is exactly something Toe Blake would do​

Toe Blake was the best choice to coach this Béliveau team, and is probably the best coach of all-time.

First line is a solid recreation of the classic Olmstead-Béliveau-Geoffrion line from the '50s megadynasty. Not as high on Geoffrion as I used to be when it became clear he wasn't a driver of his offense, but here he's in his natural element. Only question mark, if you can call it that, is how much Sid Abel's defensive game transfers to LW. Otherwise, this should be one of the top units of the draft.

Russell Bowie was one of my favorite picks of the draft, for reasons more mystical than rational. I just feel he made your team significantly better visually from what it was up to that point, and put you back in the mix of contenders. Not sure I like him with Maltsev there though, as both read as soft and poor defensively. Am I wrong? Smokey Harris brings the intangibles but he is kindda weak as a 2nd liner there, especially covering for what I suspect are two unidimensional players. Neither have much meat in terms of clutch performances neither. Maybe I am reading both of them wrong, I never had any of these guys. Overall I see it as a line that needs to be sheltered. Good offensively for sure, but not sure they will be in the pluses at ES.

The entire bottom-6 is well-constructed, bringing a bit of everything and the lines can be juggled, as is written within your asterisk. I like Amonte as a small but gritty speedy ES winger. Kopitar is top notch as a 3rd line center. Pavelich great to defend against top RWers. Marleau brings more speed and decent two-way play, if unspectacular. Watson brings even more speed, and gives you that much needed RHS center. Ed Westfall great to defend top LWers. Nothing to wow you in it, but it gets the job done. This bottom 6 feels very much like a toolbox ready to handle a variety of specific tasks.

The 1st pairing is very strong in terms of value, only OK in terms of chemistry. Savard will cover for Pilote defensively, giving him maximal room to generate offense, but while Savard was a big boy, he won't help him against the physical grind of opponents. Still, I'm the biggest Serge Savard fan in here, and see him as a top defenseman, so the pairing is a key strenght on that team.

You lucked out getting Flaman so late. He's solid there as your #3D bringing much needed physicality on the right side. Art Ross is hard to get a read on, like most players from his era. I guess he's a puck rusher with a decent all-around game, just not sure what his value is supposed to be. I like the fit better than on the 1st pairing.

Third pairing is intriguing. At first, I saw both Beck and Griffis as similar players, but on second thoughts Beck was more defensively minded and Griffis offensively minded, tho both were physical. I like the fact that both were big and strong, as it gives your blueline more physicality to surround Pilote and handle tough forwards in your division.

Vézina is an above-average starter; Connell a good choice for back-up as a clutch goalie.

1st PP is obviously very strong. Béliveau a very top PP forward, and Geoffrion-Pilote are great PP pointmen. Maltsev and Abel are alright, though I wonder if you shouldn't put Bowie in there.

2nd PP is kind of lame, outside of Bowie, but whatever.

1st PK is great.

No idea about the 2nd PK, you tell me about it.

Overall I like and dislike many things about that team, but it has managed to get some signature (memorable) aspects working for it, like the Toe Blake ---> Abel-Beliveau-Geoffrion connection, Russell Bowie's presence as a 2nd offensive center, a "mathematical" bottom 6 and an above average goalie. I also like Savard and Flaman on both pairings in particular. I dislike the chemistry between Savard and Pilote, and I dislike the Bowie - Maltsev duo (until persuaded otherwise) especially given the 3rd wheel is the OK but not great Harris. Despite this bipolar evaluation, this is one of the top teams in the draft.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Appreciate the review. I'd like to touch upon some points, while not seriously disputing any of them:

And you managed to get them Smith who has real life connections to both as well.

The credit for this has to go to the Franchise Founder @ted2019 . As I said before, I was left with a very playable position on account of the sound early picks.

Power Play:
2nd group is fantastic....Novy is a bit of a risk up top but his offensive skill is not in debate.

Freely conceded- but I opted to a 1D second PP Unit by reasoning that if one had to pick a least likely to lose PP possession on account of making an errant pass for failing to account for positioning of teammate, the Sedins would surely be a candidate for that distinction.

Penalty Kill:

Potvin is good enough to play the top unit. Rather easily IMO.

There's a "meta-point" here- and would probably be worthy of a separate conversation- perhaps in the "lineup advice" or "dishing the dirt" threads: just where do you draw the 'Aleph-Line' for justifying First Unit duties on both PP & PK? I'd been drawing that line somewhere around Bourque-Level. Clearly, if Potvin CAN absorb that extra time, he should.

@nabby12 made a good point about injuries and situational starts- so I'd like to expand on that a bit, too. I'm feeling pretty good about my bench, and view them as more than just fill-ins for injuries and cold-flu season scratches. If this team plays in a smaller rink, Darragh- no stranger to tight spaces, can pop into the starting line-up. Also (paradoxically enough) that's not a bad time to spot-start Dzurilla, whose signature skill is cutting down angles on a team attempting to execute a North-South attack. When playing on a larger, perhaps International-size ice-surface, the squad can employ FA & Bandy star (as well as inaugural-class IIHF Hall-of-Famer) Vsevolod Bobrov, in addition to possibly Lyapkin, who brings the near-unique profile of a RHS Defender fully experienced playing the Left side. [Might also be interesting to use against off-hand-shot RWers.] Would also like to note that Ragulin is as bilateral a Defenceman as can be found on the European stage- so there's some flexibility there, too.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Thanks for the feedback!!

First off, very disrespectful comments towards Mosienko. You can make the BS soft claims on Cowley-Mosienko despite no one here ever seeing them play, but it's strictly false. Krutov-Cowley-Mosienko is at least an average second-line from what I've seen on here.
The other second-line RW's in my division are: Igor Larionov, Helmets Balderis, Yvan Cournoyer, Cecil Dillon, Mickey MacKay. Mosienko's not out-of-place at all and wouldn't be the worst of them.

Also, I don't quite understand where all your criticism of Black Jack Stewart comes from.

As @TheDevilMadeMe once said, "He was arguably the best defenseman of his era."

He was one of two defensemen in NHL history to be an All-Star both before and after the introduction of the red line, which is important as the new ability to pass forward between zones changed the way defensemen had to play.

Stewart was his team's top defenseman for two Stanley Cup's. He was also a three-time NHL First Team All-Star, three-time NHL Second Team All-Star, and with that he missed a few seasons of his prime because he was serving in World War II.

It should also be noted that he finished top 5 in All-Star voting every season he played from the ages of 25-32 before retiring due to injuries.

So yeah, he's an elite 1D. Are there better defensemen out there in this draft? Absolutely. Is he so-much worse than Dit Clapper because Clapper was a more significantly-known leader? Nope.

You keep punching the air though.

Uh yeah he's probably the worst player of that bunch even though I'm side eyeing Larionov

Almost every 1D selected in the draft will be arguably the best in their era that's why they're 1Ds

Clappers record is a defenseman is just about as good Stewart's but he didn't start playing D until his 30s. I'm not using some BS reason like leadership. Clapper dominated before the lull in talent WWII created, has equal AST voting combining both positions and a better Hart resume.

No he's not lol, by virtue of their being 24 teams Clapper and Stewart are both low end 1Ds at best

 

[ResilientBeast]

Cleveland Spiders

View attachment 403463

coach; Joel Quenneville

Captain: Bobby Clarke
Alternates: Larry Robinson, Carl Brewer

Bill Barber-Bobby Clarke-Teemu Selanne
Syd Howe-Mike Modano-Gordie Drillon
Mats Naslund-Joe Primeau-Jimmy Ward
Dave Balon-Fleming Mackell-Owen Nolan

Extra: Charlie Simmer, Brad Richards

Ivan Johnson- Larry Robinson
Carl Brewer-Babe Pratt
Art Duncan-Lloyd Cook

Extra: Lars Erik Sjoberg

Martin Brodeur
Gerry Cheevers

Special Teams:

PP 1: Syd Howe, Mike Modano,Teemu Selanne, Babe Pratt, Bill Barber
PP 2: Mats Naslund, Bobby Clarke, Gordie Drillon, Larry Robinson, Carl Brewer

PK 1: Bobby Clarke, Jimmy Ward, Larry Robinson, Ivan Johnson
PK 2: Dave Balon, Fleming Mackell, Carl Brewer, Art Duncan

Tony this looks like a very strong team and among the best you've drafted during my time here

1st line - Clarke and Selanne will be a lethal offensive duo, Barber is there for some grit and auxiliary defense. The line is a classic construction and has a similar shape to Quenneville's own teams during the Hawks pseudo dynasty.

2nd line - Another line heavy on two way play with Modano and Howe you've built another line capable of taking heavy minutes, Drillon drags it down a little bit but adds some scoring pop. Modano and Hull worked so I'm sure he and Drillon would as well. More stuff is coming out about Howe and his all round game is a little questionable on the physical side. But I don't think he'd be one to get pushed around, so perhaps the line is a little light physically but the rest looks good for a second unit.

3rd line - Finally a scoring only C, you've got him partnered with another offense only guy in Naslund and Ward. Ward's old bio paints him a strong checking gritty type with scoring acumen which is helpful since it brings an element your line is lacking. Talent wise it looks alright.

If I had a criticism of the top 9 forwards it would be they look soft. They're tough but in your division they are going to get hit a lot and hopefully someone up front can respond.

4th line - Spare parts

1st pair - Talent wise it looks fantastic, I made the mistake in OOPF thinking that Robinson was more defensively focused. You've provided him a tough as nails partner who can let Robinson engage in the offense. Talent wise (excluding IE) this is one of the top pairings in the draft. Love it.

2nd pair - Brewer is a good 3D at 24 teams and Pratt right on the edge of 4/5D territory. The pair looks to be a pretty decent two way pairing and should be able to play quality minutes.

3rd pair - Relative to the field your best pairing, Cook/Duncan are both 4Ds at 24 teams and this pairing will able to play heavy minutes keeping your top two pairings fresh.


Goalie - You've got Brodeur, firmly a top 5 G all time he's a workhorse so Cheevers doesn't matter much. But goaltending is definitely a strength for your team.

 

[ResilientBeast]

*Minutes charts still to come..

Coach: Hap Day

Captain: Mark Messier
Alternate: King Clancy
Alternate: Boris Mayorov

Anatoli Firsov - Mark Messier - Mark Recchi
Baldy Northcott - Dave Keon - Didier Pitre
Boris Mayorov - Joe Nieuwendyk - Ace Bailey
Wayne Cashman - Red Sullivan - Shane Doan

Spares: Murray Oliver, Ryan Smyth

King Clancy - Hod Stuart
Allan Stanley - Alex Pietrangelo
Gary Bergman - Kevin Hatcher

Spare: Dave Burrows

Frank Brimsek
Rogie Vachon

PP1: Firsov - Messier - Recchi - Clancy - Stuart
PP2: Mayorov - Nieuwendyk - Pitre - Stanley - Hatcher

PK1: Keon - Sullivan - Stanley - Pietrangelo
PK2: Messier - Bailey - Stuart - Hatcher
Extra PK forwards: Firsov, Northcott
Extra PK defenseman: Bergman​

1st line - Love it. Talent wise it looks fantastic, the individual components all look like they will work together fantastically. They look to be responsible enough for Day to be happy with them while still adding scoring pop. This is a line you can send over the boards against any unit in this draft and Day will be confident they will do their job.

2nd line - Now the problems start for me, this unit looks offensively anemic. Keon is probably the worst offensive top 6 center in this draft, and you've got Northcott another weak offensive guy riding shotgun. Pitre is an offensive piece, but the more I read about him the more disappointed I come away about his offensive production. He doesn't seem to bring many intangibles despite his size he was more of a "gentle giant". This unit will blanket the opposition but doesn't feel very threatening offensively.

3rd line - I love the stylistic matching of Mayorov with Nieuwendyk who reads a lot like Starshinov to me. Another line that is going to be able to check effectively but should be more competent offensively relative to other 3rd lines. Baily and Mayorov bring enough playmaking to help the line along and the three of them are willing and able checkers. I like this line overall the talent level and the individual pieces feel like they fit. Good job

4th line - In a division with all the big bodies you've opted for a bruising effort 4th line, Cashman finally falling to a good place for him. Looks good.


1st pair - Talent wise looks great, Stuart and Clancy are strong enough to handle the big forwards in your division so that was a good get. The puck moving looks just average, I wish we knew more about Stuart outside of just his goal scoring on the offense end. I skimmed IEs mega bio and didn't come away with much.

2nd pair - Pietrangelo was a guy I totally missed on, and would've taken ahead of Crawford. Stanley is probably an average 3D at 24 teams and Pietrangelo is probably a low end 3D by now. So talent wise it looks pretty good, stylistically I like it as well. Both guys can move the puck, Pietrangelo is more inclined offensively while Stanley brings the defense. I don't watch much Blues/Knights how's Pietrangelo's footspeed? Is it good enough to cover for Stanley if he gets caught out of position? That would be my only really critique, which might not even be founded in anything! Great pair.

3rd pair - Two guys I would consider 5Ds together, neither of them particularly high end so this pair doesn't feel like a strength. They'll play sound defensive hockey which Day will like but talent wise they feel below a lot of other 3rd pairs in this draft. The abilities of your top 2 units will help out with that, I can't imagine many tough minutes spilling over to this pair. So perhaps it won't be an issue.

Goalies - Brimsek is in that tier just inside the top 10 making him above average at 24 teams, another workhorse type. You've given him a competent backup to help him rest during the regular season. I wouldn't call goaltending a strength of this squad but it will not cost you games during the RS or the POs.

Special teams - No real comments

Overall, I think the team is relying heavily on that top line to score and keep the team offensively in games. This may work since the rest of the team is geared towards winning 2-1. The top 4 on defense is among the strongest (excluding @ImporterExporter sorry bud it's just not fair to have you draft the average up), which will help limit dangerous chances. The team is also built to handle the physical challenges of your division which will make it's RS and PO matchups a real challenge. A good squad with a consistent theme.

 

[Dreakmur]

Almost every 1D selected in the draft will be arguably the best in their era that's why they're 1Ds

Clappers record is a defenseman is just about as good Stewart's but he didn't start playing D until his 30s. I'm not using some BS reason like leadership. Clapper dominated before the lull in talent WWII created, has equal AST voting combining both positions and a better Hart resume.

No he's not lol, by virtue of their being 24 teams Clapper and Stewart are both low end 1Ds at best

Stewart isn’t a top 30 defenseman. He’s not a legit #1 in this draft.

 

[tony d]

Thanks @ResilientBeast for the review, I'll return the favor before the end of the weekend.

 

[Leaf Lander]

Hello

 

[ImporterExporter]

Lester Patrick

Tommy Phillips - Wayne Gretzky "C" - Charlie Conacher "A"
Brad Marchand - Marty Barry - Bobby Bauer
Artemi Panarin - Cooney Weiland - Claude Provost
Brian Sutter - Camille Henry - Floyd Curry

Scott Niedermayer "A" - Drew Doughty
Pat Stapleton - Bill White
Ryan McDonagh - P.K. Subban

Jacques Plante
Henrik Lundqvist

Spares: Lynn Patrick, Jack Marshall, Carol Vadnais

PP1: Conacher-Gretzky-Henry-Subban-Stapleton
PP2: Marchand-Barry-Bauer-Doughty-Niedermayer

PK1: Phillips-Curry-McDonagh-White
PK2: Weiland-Provost-Niedermayer-Doughty
PK3: Marchand-Gretzky

​

Forwards	ES	PP	PK	Total
Wayne Gretzky	16	5	1	22
Tommy Phillips	14		3	17
Charlie Conacher	15	5		20
Marty Barry	14	2		16
Brad Marchand	13	2	1	16
Bobby Bauer	13	2		15
Cooney Weiland	12		3	15
Artemi Panarin	11			11
Claude Provost	12		3	15
Camille Henry	4	5		9
Brian Sutter	8			8
Floyd Curry	6		3	9
Totals	138	21	14	173

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Defensemen	ES	PP	PK	Total
Scott Niedermayer	19	2	3	24
Drew Doughty	19	2	3	24
Pat Stapleton	17	5		22
Bill White	17		4	21
Ryan McDonagh	10		4	14
P.K. Subban	10	5		15
Totals	92	14	14	120

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Always interested to see how a Gretzky team turns out and you did a great job here Dreak! The only thing missing from the roster is a really clear cut #1 D in a draft this size but having taken Wayne, Charlie, and Jacques w/ your 1st three selections, did an admirable job plugging that top 4.

Coaching:

Patrick is a great coach here! Obviously has a good record as a coach and had a big impact on the tactical/rules/admin side of the game as well. Do I think his coaching record, as in wins/losses is top 5 all time? Not really (didn't finish quite enough), but his impact on the game beyond that likely gets him there for me. Absolutely a top 10 coach ever, I think I'd place him somewhere in the 4-7 range right now. Hopefully we attempt a coaching study in the HoH one day.

He'll certainly love having Gretzky and company and I think the roster looks fantastic given what Patrick coached in real life and not having a top shelf #1 isn't something that should bother him too much either looking at the Ranger teams he ran.


Leadership:

Great trio. Gretzky is one of the best ever. A silent, do as I do leader. Conacher and Neids are a nice complimentary pair of alternates. Conacher a policemen type and Neids more on the Gretzky end of the spectrum stylistically I think.

Great coach on the bench and Gretzky leading the team on the ice. High marks here.


Forwards:

Top line is elite. I feel like it's been created before for some reason!

Gretzky-Conacher is going to be the best 1st line combo in the draft as far as scoring averages/output go. Phillips brings the very much needed defensive chops to the line.

No need to elaborate much on 99. He's the greatest pure offensive talent in NHL history. Conacher brings elite goal scoring and those 2 should work magic in transition or cycle. Plus, he'll act as a policeman for Gretzky especially. Phillips doesn't bring a ton of offense but then again that isn't really needed when we've already outlined who the other 2 players are haha. He'll play high in the zone a lot, and be a great presence in covering up for Dmen moving up to help out in the offensive zone and his backchecking will be as good/better than most players in the league.

Given I'm not really sure (don't see anything specific in the bios) how much fore checking Conacher did, I do think this line may have a little trouble in terms of puck retrievals when they get down into the corners/walls. Gretzky isn't going to do it. Phillips is noted as a complete player but the one area that isn't really touched on is physicality/forechecking. He strikes me as Lady Byng type. Not soft, but definitely not an overly physical presence.

How will they handle the really physical teams? Conacher won't let anyone bash Gretzky, I just think the one possible weakness here is fore checking and winning puck battles (at times).

But again, to be clear, this is a premium top line, one of the absolute best in the league this, and keeping them down on the score sheet will be a very tough task for anyone.

Really like that 2nd line.

Barry brings really strong complimentary scoring to the 2nd line and he's joined by 2 capable scoring wingers in Marchand/Bauer. Bauer with the missed war time during his prime is probably more of an 80 VsX type than the 74.6 he has attached to him and Marchand is just under the 80 plateau now, having a great year again in 2021 should get him over the mark.

Bauer and Marchand will be great pests, forechecking like crazy, giving solid back checking performances. It'll really remove some of the attention from Barry, the best offensive player of the bunch who was also a clutch playoff performer. One of the best in the game in the 1930's. Led Detroit to back to back titles w/ 17 points in 17 games, a big number for that time period actually.

Bauer or Barry can carry the puck strongly. This line checks off the boxes you want in a scoring line. Not a big (size) line by any means, I do think it has more physicality across the board than the top unit, just coming in smaller packages.

Panarin initially looks very strange on that 3rd line haha. Weiland, his one outlier seasons not withstanding, and Provost are certainly slanted strongly towards the defensive but the fact of the matter is both are plenty good enough offensively (Provost has really strong ES scoring!) to feature in a counter role, on a 3rd line. They both bring a wealth of defensive acumen and that should allow Panarin a bit more leeway in the offensive zone. Provost will check everything. Weiland with his hook/poke check should play well around center ice. And if you wanted to get a more complete checking group, Marchand could move down or Sutter up from the 4th line. So there is definitely flexibility!

4th line features 2 solid defensive wingers and a PP specialists in Henry. Nothing overly special on the whole here IMO. Just a typical 4th line.

Really nice mix of talents overall. You can move some pieces around on the wings but there are multiple elite defensive wingers. Down the middle it's certainly more about offense, but I don't mind that as long as you have the folks on the flanks who can support the style. And you clearly do.


Power Play

Tale of 2 positions. At F, the top unit is incredible. Net presence, goal scorer, and facilitator to make it all work. Plain elite. But I can't say that Subban-Stapleton is a good blue line. Not sure anyone would to be fair. Subban has't really led many potent PP groups, his usage is good enough (68%) but between the below average output, and his propensity for blunders, just not a big fan of him here. Stapleton is more of a 2nd unit guy in a draft this size. Just over 50% for his career, just over the league average (1.02). I think he'll be a good, safe, player up top. Won't blow you away but will do a decent job running the group.

I think the top unit will go as far as the blue liners take them in this case. No doubt the forwards alone are worth some goals, but that blue line is a definite weakness IMO.


Defensemen

Doughty is probably right on the fringe of a #1 in a 24 team draft. Guessing most have him just inside or outside likely.

Neidermayer is a solid #2, coming in about 30-35th all time now that some active players have passed him from the old rankings 10 years ago (and looking at the new top 200 project).

Puck moving shouldn't be an issue with these 2, on either side. You have great skating, size and physicality with Doughty, and generally pretty good 200 foot play, although I think most would agree, on the whole this line tilts a bit more to the offense than its own end. Doughtly though, should be able to handle more of a stay at home role than he'd normally play. He's played that at times in real life, especially for Canada on the international scene.

Obviously not a great top pairing, but certainly not bad considering how long you waited to address this position.

Stapleton-White is a great 2nd pairing. Both are probably low end 3's in a 24 team draft. But the chemistry was a great find and they both logged heavy minutes for Chicago back in the day. That'll be needed with a pretty average top pairing. White brings elite PK ability as well and Stapleton can help out on either unit.

McDonaugh is ok. Solid stay at home type. Not a big fan of Subban, just because I think he's provided too much evidence that highlights his poor hockey IQ. Had a nice peak in Montreal w/the Norris in a shortened year and 2 AS nods but I really though his game started declining in Nashville culminated with a poor performance against Pitt in 2017. Now he's not even worth mentioning as a class player in NJ.

But based on awards, he looks great in a bottom pairing role. Norris win, 2 other 3rd place finishes and 3x AS so that will bar me from writing him off absolutely but beyond the 3 AS seasons, there is very little to write home about. If you can get him to produce on the PP and limit mistakes at ES, he'll be one of the best bottom pairing guys out there.

Overall, this isn't going to be a strength, but you did a solid job finding talent and guys who can play strongly at ES. And having Plante behind these guys is a great equalizer in many respects!

Penalty Kill

Strong top group. Bill White is elite as a PK'er. Phillips should be in that class as well. Curry is a PK specialist, one of the better ones from his era. McDonaugh's best attribute in this setting is his PK ability so all around this is really strong group.

Did Phillips or Curry play C/take draws? I'm honestly drawing a blank right now.

Solid 2nd group, mainly because of the F's. Weiland/Provost is a plethora of defensive ability and Neidermayer/Doughty should at least do a passable job on the blue line.

Goalies:

Plante is elite. #3 all time. Do I think he'll face more rubber than a lot of guys, mainly because of the blue line? Yeah, but in these cases, having a legend in net is always a great counter. Plante should help some in the puck retrieval and transition game as well. He was a pioneer in that regard.

Lundy, along with Lehman are the best backups in this. Probably didn't need to take him in all reality but he'll provide Plante with a few extra nights off in the regular season and that can never be overlooked.

Defensively speaking, this time will live and die with how dominant Plante can be. He should be up to the task more than most!

Overall:

As I said up top, you have a great coach, Gretzky leading the charge for a coach that liked heavy forward assaults. The F's are well placed and provide a wonderful mix of scoring/defense.

The blue line is the obvious question mark, compared with some other rosters, but I think you have enough strong defensive forwards + Plante to help take some of the pressure off them.

Always a pleasure to see you build and I appreciate the banter Dreak! I know you'll have some of the best arguments come playoff time and I think you should do well with a Gretzky/Plante team.

Good luck sir!

 

[Habsfan18]

Thanks for the review, RB!

I expected these kind if comments on my 2nd line, and they’re certainly valid. As I said previously, I know they aren’t going to bring a whole lot in terms of offense, but I still expect them to be very difficult to play against as a trio, and can be used in sort of a shutdown role. I expect Day to lean on that 3rd line for additional offense. But I agree that my top line will need to be the primary driver on offense and will be leaned on heavily.

This team was built to win low scoring games, at least in my mind when I was putting it together. I knew it couldn’t compete in fire-wagon style back and fourth offensive hockey. At least not in terms of top-end scorers. But it’s a lineup that will be tough to play against, has plenty of two-way performers up front, physical play and some puck movers on the back end. We will make opponents work and if it all comes together we can win some close games. Won’t light the league on fire offensively but we won’t be easy to score on either.

And I’m glad you picked up on the Nieuwendyk/Starshinov similarities. I agree, and it was part of the thought process there.

edit: Oh, and I’ve always thought Pietrangelo’s footspeed to be fine, even bordering on “sneaky good”. Not sure if others will agree but I’ve always been a big fan and have watched him a lot. He doesn’t get beat often.

Thanks again!

1st line - Love it. Talent wise it looks fantastic, the individual components all look like they will work together fantastically. They look to be responsible enough for Day to be happy with them while still adding scoring pop. This is a line you can send over the boards against any unit in this draft and Day will be confident they will do their job.

2nd line - Now the problems start for me, this unit looks offensively anemic. Keon is probably the worst offensive top 6 center in this draft, and you've got Northcott another weak offensive guy riding shotgun. Pitre is an offensive piece, but the more I read about him the more disappointed I come away about his offensive production. He doesn't seem to bring many intangibles despite his size he was more of a "gentle giant". This unit will blanket the opposition but doesn't feel very threatening offensively.

3rd line - I love the stylistic matching of Mayorov with Nieuwendyk who reads a lot like Starshinov to me. Another line that is going to be able to check effectively but should be more competent offensively relative to other 3rd lines. Baily and Mayorov bring enough playmaking to help the line along and the three of them are willing and able checkers. I like this line overall the talent level and the individual pieces feel like they fit. Good job

4th line - In a division with all the big bodies you've opted for a bruising effort 4th line, Cashman finally falling to a good place for him. Looks good.


1st pair - Talent wise looks great, Stuart and Clancy are strong enough to handle the big forwards in your division so that was a good get. The puck moving looks just average, I wish we knew more about Stuart outside of just his goal scoring on the offense end. I skimmed IEs mega bio and didn't come away with much.

2nd pair - Pietrangelo was a guy I totally missed on, and would've taken ahead of Crawford. Stanley is probably an average 3D at 24 teams and Pietrangelo is probably a low end 3D by now. So talent wise it looks pretty good, stylistically I like it as well. Both guys can move the puck, Pietrangelo is more inclined offensively while Stanley brings the defense. I don't watch much Blues/Knights how's Pietrangelo's footspeed? Is it good enough to cover for Stanley if he gets caught out of position? That would be my only really critique, which might not even be founded in anything! Great pair.

3rd pair - Two guys I would consider 5Ds together, neither of them particularly high end so this pair doesn't feel like a strength. They'll play sound defensive hockey which Day will like but talent wise they feel below a lot of other 3rd pairs in this draft. The abilities of your top 2 units will help out with that, I can't imagine many tough minutes spilling over to this pair. So perhaps it won't be an issue.

Goalies - Brimsek is in that tier just inside the top 10 making him above average at 24 teams, another workhorse type. You've given him a competent backup to help him rest during the regular season. I wouldn't call goaltending a strength of this squad but it will not cost you games during the RS or the POs.

Special teams - No real comments

Overall, I think the team is relying heavily on that top line to score and keep the team offensively in games. This may work since the rest of the team is geared towards winning 2-1. The top 4 on defense is among the strongest (excluding @ImporterExporter sorry bud it's just not fair to have you draft the average up), which will help limit dangerous chances. The team is also built to handle the physical challenges of your division which will make it's RS and PO matchups a real challenge. A good squad with a consistent theme.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Hello

I got a late start - I'll get to your team this weekend.

@ImporterExporter , with this thread still active, maybe we hold off on regular season voting until midweek?

 

[ImporterExporter]

I got a late start - I'll get to your team this weekend.

@ImporterExporter , with this thread still active, maybe we hold off on regular season voting until midweek?

Absolutely fine with me. We're so far ahead of the normal curve a few extra days for reviews is a good thing.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Guelph Platers
1986 Memorial Cup Champions

Home Rink: Guelph Memorial Gardens (1948)
GM: BraveCanadian
Coach: Al Arbour
Captain: Syl Apps Sr.
Alternates: Hap Day / Alf Smith


Alexander Ovechkin - Adam Oates - Bryan Hextall Sr.
Paul Thompson - Syl Apps Sr. - Alf Smith
Kevin Stevens - John Tavares - Bobby Rousseau
Gilles Tremblay - Don Luce - Jean Pronovost

"Moose" Johnson - Brad Park
Hap Day - Sylvio Mantha
Andrei Markov - Jiri Bubla

Ken Dryden
Pekka Rinne

Reserves
Nathan MacKinnon - Bill Hajt - Jason Pominville

Powerplay:
PP1: Alexander Ovechkin - Syl Apps Sr. - Bryan Hextall Sr. - Andrei Markov - Brad Park
PP2: Paul Thompson - Adam Oates - Kevin Stevens - Bobby Rousseau - Jiri Bubla

Penalty Kill:
PK1: Don Luce - Gilles Tremblay - Moose Johnson - Sylvio Mantha
PK2: Adam Oates - Jean Pronovost - Hap Day - Brad Park​

Welcome back BC! Always good to have veterans come back into the fold and you predictably built a strong roster top to bottom.

Coaching:

Arbour is a top 5 coach ever. I have a lot of respect for him for his huge role in developing and building a dynasty from the ground up. Obviously the 4 straight Cups is the shining achievement but he also had strong longevity as a winner in the regular season.

Roster looks like one he'll be able to make noise with. I don't see a C that profiles like Trottier (uber physical, 200 foot type) but other than that, it works. He had Bossy so Ovechkin shouldn't be an issue.

Leadership:

Good corps group. Apps is a solid C and both Hap Day and Alf Smith were highly respected leaders in their day as well.


Forwards:

Fantastic top line. They'll score goals.

Really a nice meshing of players. Ovechkin being the centerpiece, he has a pivot that made a living off getting the puck to big, goal scoring wingers, the latter potting some impressive goal totals. If you're getting early era Ovechkin he and Hextall will be an absolute force on the forecheck and just in general. I don't think Ovi held that style of play long enough to get consistent credit at an ATD level, but even still, he's a load and along with Hextall, other squads better buckle up.

I especially think this is a line that will do most of it's damage when it can generate a cycle, puck possession, etc. Certainly not a line that should be considered good defensively, but not horrible by any means. They'll have to defend more than some.

Really nice 2nd line as well. Apps (especially) and Thompson are strong 2nd line players here. Alf Smith is obviously not a strong scoring line player, but he brings a shitload of physicality and was a good play maker in his day. One of the best as I recall pre 1910. You're not going to get strong defense out of Thompson or Apps (relative to the league) so Smith will have to lift the load there. Apps and Thompson are really strong offensively for a 2nd line role so Smith is in a position where he can really focus on the glue type activities.

3rd line is classic depth scoring unit and in that role, w/these minutes should do an admirable job.

4th line is much more of a defensive slant, though it's not overly impressive relative to many others.

I do think from an overall standpoint this is a F group on the whole that will generate quite a bit of offense, though top to bottom lacks consistent defensive presences. Some of that burden will shift to the D and G and you did a good job creating a strong corp in that area!


Power Play:

Lethal top unit. Ovi is so deadly here. Apps is a wizard with the puck and should make some good things happen with the players around him here. Plus he lead the league in PP goals multiple times. Hextall strikes me as a really rich man's Pat Hornqvist (who I saw a lot of in recent years) and Horny was an excellent PP presence at the net and just giving G's a hard time, pissing people off. Markov is a great use of a depth pairing player here. In a smaller draft he's nothing special on a top unit but alongside Park, I really like the fit. Park is elite here.

You have a nice depth unit of F's with Thompson, Oates, Stevens and Rousseau. I'll need to re-read on Bubla but even without that knowledge, I like this group more than some others I've reviewed.


Defensemen:

Johnson-Park is a nice top pairing. I have Park as a perfectly average #1 in a 24 team league. He's a premium puck mover and offensive catalyst from the back end. I think if you combine that ability with Johnson's nasty demeanor and defensive reputation, you have a Potvin replica! But seriously, Park is a solid #1 this year and Johnson probably on the lower end of the 2's but still a 2. It's a nice combination of styles and one that Arbour should like deploying.

I like the 2nd unit. Mantha is a 3 and Day a passable #4 here, being a strong defensive presence but capable of moving the puck in a pinch. He should fit well with Mantha, who possessed strong 2 way abilities. He led the Canadians D in scoring for years but had a noted defensive game when you pour through the old bio's. This should be a rock solid pair defending while still possessing enough offensive chops to not get bogged down too often.

Markov-Bubla seems weak even for a bottom pairing but they both do bring skills on special teams and that is a factor in their value.


Penalty Kill:

Love 3/4th's of the top unit. Luce is a horse, one of the greats at F. Johnson and Mantha both feature as strong PK options on the blueline. Tremblay on a 1st unit seems like a stretch but. there don't seem to be any other strong options. Maybe Alf Smith, but I can't recall how much was noted on his backchecking/defensive game.

Oates seems like a passable 2nd line C here. Not ideal but you could do worse. Not sure how much PK time Pronovost got though so I'll have to look closer on him. Day and Park seem like a good duo.


Goalies:

Dryden gives you an outright good starter this year. He'll probably be facing more shots due to lack of depth among defensive F's and while the D in front of him here isn't quite equal to that of the 70's Habs, it's a solid group, 3/4 of which should be considered strong defensive players. Rinne isn't a guy you want in the playoffs but as a regular season helper, he's good.

Overall:

You built a good roster in your return bud! It's not a roster that jumps off the page at first, but you have a really nice wealth of scoring in the top 9 and a sneaky solid top 4 on the back end. I like the 1st and 2nd lines a good bit and your top 4. Dryden will give you a chance in any match up and an advantage in some.

Thanks for coming back and appreciate your review of my roster earlier in the proceedings!

 

[Dreakmur]

Always interested to see how a Gretzky team turns out and you did a great job here Dreak! The only thing missing from the roster is a really clear cut #1 D in a draft this size but having taken Wayne, Charlie, and Jacques w/ your 1st three selections, did an admirable job plugging that top 4.

Coaching:

Patrick is a great coach here! Obviously has a good record as a coach and had a big impact on the tactical/rules/admin side of the game as well. Do I think his coaching record, as in wins/losses is top 5 all time? Not really (didn't finish quite enough), but his impact on the game beyond that likely gets him there for me. Absolutely a top 10 coach ever, I think I'd place him somewhere in the 4-7 range right now. Hopefully we attempt a coaching study in the HoH one day.

He'll certainly love having Gretzky and company and I think the roster looks fantastic given what Patrick coached in real life and not having a top shelf #1 isn't something that should bother him too much either looking at the Ranger teams he ran.


Leadership:

Great trio. Gretzky is one of the best ever. A silent, do as I do leader. Conacher and Neids are a nice complimentary pair of alternates. Conacher a policemen type and Neids more on the Gretzky end of the spectrum stylistically I think.

Great coach on the bench and Gretzky leading the team on the ice. High marks here.


Forwards:

Top line is elite. I feel like it's been created before for some reason!

Gretzky-Conacher is going to be the best 1st line combo in the draft as far as scoring averages/output go. Phillips brings the very much needed defensive chops to the line.

No need to elaborate much on 99. He's the greatest pure offensive talent in NHL history. Conacher brings elite goal scoring and those 2 should work magic in transition or cycle. Plus, he'll act as a policeman for Gretzky especially. Phillips doesn't bring a ton of offense but then again that isn't really needed when we've already outlined who the other 2 players are haha. He'll play high in the zone a lot, and be a great presence in covering up for Dmen moving up to help out in the offensive zone and his backchecking will be as good/better than most players in the league.

Given I'm not really sure (don't see anything specific in the bios) how much fore checking Conacher did, I do think this line may have a little trouble in terms of puck retrievals when they get down into the corners/walls. Gretzky isn't going to do it. Phillips is noted as a complete player but the one area that isn't really touched on is physicality/forechecking. He strikes me as Lady Byng type. Not soft, but definitely not an overly physical presence.

How will they handle the really physical teams? Conacher won't let anyone bash Gretzky, I just think the one possible weakness here is fore checking and winning puck battles (at times).

But again, to be clear, this is a premium top line, one of the absolute best in the league this, and keeping them down on the score sheet will be a very tough task for anyone.

Really like that 2nd line.

Barry brings really strong complimentary scoring to the 2nd line and he's joined by 2 capable scoring wingers in Marchand/Bauer. Bauer with the missed war time during his prime is probably more of an 80 VsX type than the 74.6 he has attached to him and Marchand is just under the 80 plateau now, having a great year again in 2021 should get him over the mark.

Bauer and Marchand will be great pests, forechecking like crazy, giving solid back checking performances. It'll really remove some of the attention from Barry, the best offensive player of the bunch who was also a clutch playoff performer. One of the best in the game in the 1930's. Led Detroit to back to back titles w/ 17 points in 17 games, a big number for that time period actually.

Bauer or Barry can carry the puck strongly. This line checks off the boxes you want in a scoring line. Not a big (size) line by any means, I do think it has more physicality across the board than the top unit, just coming in smaller packages.

Panarin initially looks very strange on that 3rd line haha. Weiland, his one outlier seasons not withstanding, and Provost are certainly slanted strongly towards the defensive but the fact of the matter is both are plenty good enough offensively (Provost has really strong ES scoring!) to feature in a counter role, on a 3rd line. They both bring a wealth of defensive acumen and that should allow Panarin a bit more leeway in the offensive zone. Provost will check everything. Weiland with his hook/poke check should play well around center ice. And if you wanted to get a more complete checking group, Marchand could move down or Sutter up from the 4th line. So there is definitely flexibility!

4th line features 2 solid defensive wingers and a PP specialists in Henry. Nothing overly special on the whole here IMO. Just a typical 4th line.

Really nice mix of talents overall. You can move some pieces around on the wings but there are multiple elite defensive wingers. Down the middle it's certainly more about offense, but I don't mind that as long as you have the folks on the flanks who can support the style. And you clearly do.


Power Play

Tale of 2 positions. At F, the top unit is incredible. Net presence, goal scorer, and facilitator to make it all work. Plain elite. But I can't say that Subban-Stapleton is a good blue line. Not sure anyone would to be fair. Subban has't really led many potent PP groups, his usage is good enough (68%) but between the below average output, and his propensity for blunders, just not a big fan of him here. Stapleton is more of a 2nd unit guy in a draft this size. Just over 50% for his career, just over the league average (1.02). I think he'll be a good, safe, player up top. Won't blow you away but will do a decent job running the group.

I think the top unit will go as far as the blue liners take them in this case. No doubt the forwards alone are worth some goals, but that blue line is a definite weakness IMO.


Defensemen

Doughty is probably right on the fringe of a #1 in a 24 team draft. Guessing most have him just inside or outside likely.

Neidermayer is a solid #2, coming in about 30-35th all time now that some active players have passed him from the old rankings 10 years ago (and looking at the new top 200 project).

Puck moving shouldn't be an issue with these 2, on either side. You have great skating, size and physicality with Doughty, and generally pretty good 200 foot play, although I think most would agree, on the whole this line tilts a bit more to the offense than its own end. Doughtly though, should be able to handle more of a stay at home role than he'd normally play. He's played that at times in real life, especially for Canada on the international scene.

Obviously not a great top pairing, but certainly not bad considering how long you waited to address this position.

Stapleton-White is a great 2nd pairing. Both are probably low end 3's in a 24 team draft. But the chemistry was a great find and they both logged heavy minutes for Chicago back in the day. That'll be needed with a pretty average top pairing. White brings elite PK ability as well and Stapleton can help out on either unit.

McDonaugh is ok. Solid stay at home type. Not a big fan of Subban, just because I think he's provided too much evidence that highlights his poor hockey IQ. Had a nice peak in Montreal w/the Norris in a shortened year and 2 AS nods but I really though his game started declining in Nashville culminated with a poor performance against Pitt in 2017. Now he's not even worth mentioning as a class player in NJ.

But based on awards, he looks great in a bottom pairing role. Norris win, 2 other 3rd place finishes and 3x AS so that will bar me from writing him off absolutely but beyond the 3 AS seasons, there is very little to write home about. If you can get him to produce on the PP and limit mistakes at ES, he'll be one of the best bottom pairing guys out there.

Overall, this isn't going to be a strength, but you did a solid job finding talent and guys who can play strongly at ES. And having Plante behind these guys is a great equalizer in many respects!

Penalty Kill

Strong top group. Bill White is elite as a PK'er. Phillips should be in that class as well. Curry is a PK specialist, one of the better ones from his era. McDonaugh's best attribute in this setting is his PK ability so all around this is really strong group.

Did Phillips or Curry play C/take draws? I'm honestly drawing a blank right now.

Solid 2nd group, mainly because of the F's. Weiland/Provost is a plethora of defensive ability and Neidermayer/Doughty should at least do a passable job on the blue line.

Goalies:

Plante is elite. #3 all time. Do I think he'll face more rubber than a lot of guys, mainly because of the blue line? Yeah, but in these cases, having a legend in net is always a great counter. Plante should help some in the puck retrieval and transition game as well. He was a pioneer in that regard.

Lundy, along with Lehman are the best backups in this. Probably didn't need to take him in all reality but he'll provide Plante with a few extra nights off in the regular season and that can never be overlooked.

Defensively speaking, this time will live and die with how dominant Plante can be. He should be up to the task more than most!

Overall:

As I said up top, you have a great coach, Gretzky leading the charge for a coach that liked heavy forward assaults. The F's are well placed and provide a wonderful mix of scoring/defense.

The blue line is the obvious question mark, compared with some other rosters, but I think you have enough strong defensive forwards + Plante to help take some of the pressure off them.

Always a pleasure to see you build and I appreciate the banter Dreak! I know you'll have some of the best arguments come playoff time and I think you should do well with a Gretzky/Plante team.

Good luck sir!

Thanks for the review, and I think it was pretty fair. Just wanted to address a few questions you raised.

Charlie Conacher seems to have been a reckless battler, which led to his injuries. He was known for his corner work. I think it’s safe to say that converts into being an effective forechecker. Another note for Conacher is that he finished his career playing defense, and as a defenseman, finished 2nd in scoring both seasons.

Tommy Phillips wasn’t a physical player, but he was a relentless checker. I don’t think he drives anyone through the end of the rink, but that doesn’t mean he won’t forecheck for create turnovers.

I also like the mix and match potential of my forward core. I think Phillips could easily play with Weiland and Provost in shut down situations. Marry Barry could take shifts on the Gretzky-Conacher line too.

The blueline is how I had to build with lower picks. Agreed, Doughty is on the cusp of #1 status in a draft this size. Niedermayer probably a top-end #2. Both Stapleton and White being good #3s.

PK Subban seems to be getting a rough ride here. As you said, his voting record speaks for itself. There was a 5-6 year stretch where he was a legit top guy. He’s sucked lately, but that doesn’t erase the good stuff. No different than any other short peak player IMO.

Lundqvist was needed because Plante wasn't a regular season iron man like some other starting goalies. He tended to play a lot fewer games. I wanted to allow him to maintain that pace without being terrified to put my back-up in.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Absolutely fine with me. We're so far ahead of the normal curve a few extra days for reviews is a good thing.

Sure gives me more time, has @Hawkey Town 18 posted? He's the only one in my div I'm missing. Then I'll spread some more love around to other divs

 

[Professor What]

It was suggested that I might want to find a way to limit Francis's PK minutes as a way to cut his minutes overall since he plays all three phases, to consider swapping Bondra and Noble on my top two PK units, and put Zubov in a position to get more PP minutes. So, this is what I'm thinking now for my PK:

Unit 1: Hunter-Noble, Hatcher-Vasiliev
Unit 2: Francis-Bondra, Watson-Foote
Unit 3: Martin-Duff, Gadsby-Zubov

In the event that Hunter is the one in the box, Martin will take his draws. Martin is already getting fourth line minutes, so if I'm able to roll units as planned (which was the whole point of making three units), he shouldn't really hurt there.

It was also said at one point that I might want to consider swapping out Duff and Nash to make an all-out offensive third line and a checking fourth line. I'm thinking about a modified version of that. I don't really like the idea of sending McDavid and Bondra out all night without a defensive conscience on the line, even if Watson and Foote roll out with them consistently. But, I can see a situational advantage. Right now, I'm thinking that if the team is in a situation where a goal is needed late, Nash will play with McDavid and Bondra and they'll pick up extra minutes at the fourth line's expense. If the team is in a situation where holding the lead late is the priority, Duff will go out with Hunter and Martin and that line will gain minutes at the third line's expense.

 

[Dreakmur]

It was suggested that I might want to find a way to limit Francis's PK minutes as a way to cut his minutes overall since he plays all three phases, to consider swapping Bondra and Noble on my top two PK units, and put Zubov in a position to get more PP minutes. So, this is what I'm thinking now for my PK:

Unit 1: Hunter-Noble, Hatcher-Vasiliev
Unit 2: Francis-Bondra, Watson-Foote
Unit 3: Martin-Duff, Gadsby-Zubov

In the event that Hunter is the one in the box, Martin will take his draws. Martin is already getting fourth line minutes, so if I'm able to roll units as planned (which was the whole point of making three units), he shouldn't really hurt there.

It was also said at one point that I might want to consider swapping out Duff and Nash to make an all-out offensive third line and a checking fourth line. I'm thinking about a modified version of that. I don't really like the idea of sending McDavid and Bondra out all night without a defensive conscience on the line, even if Watson and Foote roll out with them consistently. But, I can see a situational advantage. Right now, I'm thinking that if the team is in a situation where a goal is needed late, Nash will play with McDavid and Bondra and they'll pick up extra minutes at the fourth line's expense. If the team is in a situation where holding the lead late is the priority, Duff will go out with Hunter and Martin and that line will gain minutes at the third line's expense.

You don't have many good PK forwards, do you? I think Ted Lindsay might be your best. Noble is good. After that, I'm not sure who I'd use ahead of Francis. I don't think Duff was a regular PKer. Hunter, Martin, and Bondra were not.