ATD 2021 Assassination Thread

[Dreakmur]

Orillia mini-review​

Phillips' offense isn't good, but this is a rare team situation where I think he's viable as a 1st liner - he's a good defensive conscience who isn't totally pathetic as a scorer. But make no mistake, his offense wouldn't be good enough on most first lines. Kind of like when I drafted Harris to add what my 2nd line desperately needed - you took the hit in scoring to fill a hole.

Yep, Phillips is there as a role-player type.

I'd like the 3rd line so much more if the LW was a tough guy with a decent defensive presence. Weiland-Provost just seems like the basis of what could have been one of the top two-way lines of the draft. I'd buy Panarin as a good 3rd liner if the you had a 1st or 2nd line that you wanted to use in more defensive roles, but as this team is constructed, this is the primary defensive line

I specifically tried to design a team without a checking line. I wanted a defensive conscience on every line so that I didn't need to hide anyone.

In rare instances that I do need a unit for that role, it's pretty easy to slide either Phillips or Marchand onto the win with Weiland and Provost.

Who takes the faceoff on PK1?

One of the two forwards most likely

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

One of the two forwards most likely

Duh... but aren't they both wingers? I know Montreal sometimes had their wingers take faceoffs on the PK; was Curry one of those guys?

I specifically tried to design a team without a checking line. I wanted a defensive conscience on every line so that I didn't need to hide anyone.

In rare instances that I do need a unit for that role, it's pretty easy to slide either Phillips or Marchand onto the win with Weiland and Provost.

Okay. I think that some teams can roll like that, but is it the best use of Gretzky? In Edmonton, Sather actually loaded up the rest of the team with guys who could take defensive roles, so Gretzky didn't have to.

Your team is pretty typical for you - I really like most things about it, but there are 1-2 things that make me go "huh"

I do think that you did a great job of really making up for the lack of a "true #1 D" with Plante and the defense-by-committee (with the only real remaining weakness on the blueline being a pointman to play with Stapleton... I guess Subban is ok but that's the one place where I think he might not be up to par)

 

[Dreakmur]

Duh... but aren't they both wingers? I know Montreal sometimes had their wingers take faceoffs on the PK; was Curry one of those guys?

I think Curry paired with Mosdell and then Marshall, so I’m not sure Curry would have taken many draws.

Okay. I think that some teams can roll like that, but is it the best use of Gretzky? In Edmonton, Sather actually loaded up the rest of the team with guys who could take defensive roles, so Gretzky didn't have to.

Not often do I want to take Gretzky off the ice to put out a checker. I assembled all the lines so they can just go out abs play, and be able to score abs defend.

He doesn’t have to play defensively regardless. As I said, when the rare occasions presents itself, a really good defensive unit is easily assembled.

Your team is pretty typical for you - I really like most things about it, but there are 1-2 things that make me go "huh"

I do think that you did a great job of really making up for the lack of a "true #1 D" with Plante and the defense-by-committee (with the only real remaining weakness on the blueline being a pointman to play with Stapleton... I guess Subban is ok but that's the one place where I think he might not be up to par)

I like doing something interesting. I’d rather lose than build a boring cookie-cutter team.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Portland Penguins

Coach: Cecil Hart
Captain: Sidney Crosby
Alternates: Joe Sakic & Boris Mikhailov

Nels Stewart - Sidney Crosby - Boris Mikhailov
Herbie Lewis - Joe Sakic - Punch Broadbent
Don Marcotte - Neil Colville - René Robert
Kirk Muller - Butch Goring - Tim Kerr*

*Broadbent/Marcotte will take shifts in defensive zone faceoffs and for specific match-ups

Börje Salming - Guy Lapointe
Herb Gardiner - Rob Blake
Jim Schoenfeld - Ott Heller

Roy Worters
Tim Thomas

Extra Skaters: Rejean Houle (F), Danny Gare (RW), Albert "Battleship" Leduc (D)

PP1: Blake - Lapointe
Stewart - Crosby - Sakic

PP2: Robert - Salming
Kerr - Goring - Mikhailov

PK1: Gardiner - Schoenfeld
Colville - Marcotte

PK2: Salming - Lapointe
Goring - Broadbent​

Welcome back SM! Glad to have you back in the fold and you did a great job this year. I really like the roster you put together.


Coaching

Cecil Hart is an average coach here.

I always felt he underachieved with the Morenz led Canadians but they did manage the back to back titles in 30/31 though no other trips to the finals were recorded. With that being said, he's still better than a number of coaches reviewed and should enjoy having a dominant C/C combo down the middle to work with and you did manage to grab a low end #1 D in Salming.


Leadership:

Elite collection of leaders. Crosby, Sakic, Mikhailov is as good as any trio you'll see in the ATD.


Forwards:

Pretty good group of guys. You mixed the collection of players/styles well.

Top line will be very tough to handle on the cycle especially. Really like it.

Crosby might not know what to do with this kind of talent on his flanks! Mikhailov will get in on the forecheck, he's a capable scorer and just all around great hockey player. Strikes me as a very smart and hard working type and Sid will enjoy having that. Stewart at LW, will lose a little of his overall value, but he played long enough and produced enough at LW for me to like him here. He's crazy physical, and should be able to do damage around the net, especially with a player like Sid facilitating the offense. I think having strong leadership types alongside him was a nice touch as he didn't always play the hardest after his Maroon days.

You've got a lot of goal scoring, a great play maker, a pair of guys who will backcheck at a solid rate and wingers that should handle the heavy going so that Sid has to do minimal work in that regard.

The 2nd line will obviously have a shot to produce with a player of Sakic's ability on it. Broadbent and Lewis are certainly average/below average scoring line players this year, but they both fit very well with Sakic. Broadbent can put the puck in the net at a decent clip, is a mighty force on the fore check, solid defender. Lewis is basically a smaller version of Broadbent. These 2 will really keep the pressure on opposing D with their fore checking and should provide enough back checking, allowing Sakic to worry most about producing in the offensive zone.

Bottom 6 has a nice blend of depth offensive/PP types and defensive stalwarts. Both the 3rd and 4th lines should be able to contribute to scoring, relative to their roles. Really like Colville and Goring down the middle here. Robert and Kerr bring nice depth PP options as well.


Power Play:

Elite.

Stewart at the net front, with Sid and Sakic out on the half walls, with Lapointe and Blake running the points is just a filthy unit. Really checks off every box you want in a top shelf PP group.

2nd group is pretty solid. Goring is the weakest member here but he actually had some decent PP assist totals for the Kings in the 70's. Robert on the point is a nice touch as he was quite good in that role for Buffalo. Kerr gives you another great net presence.

Overall a strength here.

Defensemen:

Solid top pairing.

Salming is about the last of the passable #'s here but he's just a plain solid 200 foot player. Capable of manning both special teams units he should play well next to Lapointe a good #2 this year IMO and like Salming capable of logging above average minutes on both special teams units. I think this duo might get pushed around a bit by the really tough F groups but from a value/ranking standpoint it's a solid top unit, capable of playing in a plus manner in both directions.

Gardiner-Blake is another rock solid 2nd pairing. Blake is a strong #3 and Gardiner probably comes in as a low end 3/strong 4 in a draft this size. Unlike the top pair, this one won't have any issues handling the rough going. Might be exposed a little by the really strong skating teams but on the whole, should be able to move the puck and defend at a better than average rate for a 2nd pair.

Really strong bottom pairing. I think you could easily put Schoenfeld/Heller into a #4 role in a 24 team draft. Really physical presences. Heller can move the puck.

Overall, your top 4 doesn't blow anyone away but it's a rock solid collection of players and the 3rd pairing is very strong, capable of handling a bit more of a workload than a normal duo in that role.


Penalty Kill:

Can't argue the quality of these groups either.

Gardiner-Schonefeld is an uber physical, air tight pair w/Colville and Marcotte provided high end F play. Like the versatility of the F's here, both capable of taking draws.

And you're giving up nothing moving down to the 2nd unit. Goring/Broadbent is solid with Salming/Lapointe being extremely good on a 2nd unit.

You did a wonderful job managing your special teams units all around SM!


Goalies:

Worters is certainly a below average goalie this year, but one I've really moved high on in the past few years. He generally backstopped some pretty awful teams and generally was regarded as a top 3 goalie of his time, culminating with a Hart win and runner up finish as well. He doesn't have a playoff record to write home about so getting Tim Thomas in the fold was a smart move. Worters should be able to handle a fairly big workload but having Thomas as insurance come playoff time was a nice play.


Overall:

Great effort SM. You're maturing as a drafter for sure and this team is well built, especially considering you used your first 2 picks on Crosby/Sakic. The D still managed to look solid despite an earlier focus on F's and the special teams players are some of the best I've reviewed so far.

If you can get enough help on the wings (scoring) and the D/G holds up at a better than average clip, you have a shot to make some noise!

Good luck bud!

 

[RustyRazor]

Welcome back SM! Glad to have you back in the fold and you did a great job this year. I really like the roster you put together.


Coaching

Cecil Hart is an average coach here.

I always felt he underachieved with the Morenz led Canadians but they did manage the back to back titles in 30/31 though no other trips to the finals were recorded. With that being said, he's still better than a number of coaches reviewed and should enjoy having a dominant C/C combo down the middle to work with and you did manage to grab a low end #1 D in Salming.


Leadership:

Elite collection of leaders. Crosby, Sakic, Mikhailov is as good as any trio you'll see in the ATD.


Forwards:

Pretty good group of guys. You mixed the collection of players/styles well.

Top line will be very tough to handle on the cycle especially. Really like it.

Crosby might not know what to do with this kind of talent on his flanks! Mikhailov will get in on the forecheck, he's a capable scorer and just all around great hockey player. Strikes me as a very smart and hard working type and Sid will enjoy having that. Stewart at LW, will lose a little of his overall value, but he played long enough and produced enough at LW for me to like him here. He's crazy physical, and should be able to do damage around the net, especially with a player like Sid facilitating the offense. I think having strong leadership types alongside him was a nice touch as he didn't always play the hardest after his Maroon days.

You've got a lot of goal scoring, a great play maker, a pair of guys who will backcheck at a solid rate and wingers that should handle the heavy going so that Sid has to do minimal work in that regard.

The 2nd line will obviously have a shot to produce with a player of Sakic's ability on it. Broadbent and Lewis are certainly average/below average scoring line players this year, but they both fit very well with Sakic. Broadbent can put the puck in the net at a decent clip, is a mighty force on the fore check, solid defender. Lewis is basically a smaller version of Broadbent. These 2 will really keep the pressure on opposing D with their fore checking and should provide enough back checking, allowing Sakic to worry most about producing in the offensive zone.

Bottom 6 has a nice blend of depth offensive/PP types and defensive stalwarts. Both the 3rd and 4th lines should be able to contribute to scoring, relative to their roles. Really like Colville and Goring down the middle here. Robert and Kerr bring nice depth PP options as well.


Power Play:

Elite.

Stewart at the net front, with Sid and Sakic out on the half walls, with Lapointe and Blake running the points is just a filthy unit. Really checks off every box you want in a top shelf PP group.

2nd group is pretty solid. Goring is the weakest member here but he actually had some decent PP assist totals for the Kings in the 70's. Robert on the point is a nice touch as he was quite good in that role for Buffalo. Kerr gives you another great net presence.

Overall a strength here.

Defensemen:

Solid top pairing.

Salming is about the last of the passable #'s here but he's just a plain solid 200 foot player. Capable of manning both special teams units he should play well next to Lapointe a good #2 this year IMO and like Salming capable of logging above average minutes on both special teams units. I think this duo might get pushed around a bit by the really tough F groups but from a value/ranking standpoint it's a solid top unit, capable of playing in a plus manner in both directions.

Gardiner-Blake is another rock solid 2nd pairing. Blake is a strong #3 and Gardiner probably comes in as a low end 3/strong 4 in a draft this size. Unlike the top pair, this one won't have any issues handling the rough going. Might be exposed a little by the really strong skating teams but on the whole, should be able to move the puck and defend at a better than average rate for a 2nd pair.

Really strong bottom pairing. I think you could easily put Schoenfeld/Heller into a #4 role in a 24 team draft. Really physical presences. Heller can move the puck.

Overall, your top 4 doesn't blow anyone away but it's a rock solid collection of players and the 3rd pairing is very strong, capable of handling a bit more of a workload than a normal duo in that role.


Penalty Kill:

Can't argue the quality of these groups either.

Gardiner-Schonefeld is an uber physical, air tight pair w/Colville and Marcotte provided high end F play. Like the versatility of the F's here, both capable of taking draws.

And you're giving up nothing moving down to the 2nd unit. Goring/Broadbent is solid with Salming/Lapointe being extremely good on a 2nd unit.

You did a wonderful job managing your special teams units all around SM!


Goalies:

Worters is certainly a below average goalie this year, but one I've really moved high on in the past few years. He generally backstopped some pretty awful teams and generally was regarded as a top 3 goalie of his time, culminating with a Hart win and runner up finish as well. He doesn't have a playoff record to write home about so getting Tim Thomas in the fold was a smart move. Worters should be able to handle a fairly big workload but having Thomas as insurance come playoff time was a nice play.


Overall:

Great effort SM. You're maturing as a drafter for sure and this team is well built, especially considering you used your first 2 picks on Crosby/Sakic. The D still managed to look solid despite an earlier focus on F's and the special teams players are some of the best I've reviewed so far.

If you can get enough help on the wings (scoring) and the D/G holds up at a better than average clip, you have a shot to make some noise!

Good luck bud!

Thanks for the review. Your thoughts about my team echo my own. I thought my team was shaping up pretty generically style-wise so I could afford to wait on a coach and as Hart had a reputation as a "players coach" combined with the leadership I was able to accumulate, I thought it a good fit. I'm still figuring out the sweet spots for value and recognized pretty quickly after I passed on a goalie in the round I took Rob Blake that I'd end up with a lower level starter. If he sinks my team, then that's the way it's going to be. I think I'm getting better at this and really enjoyed the draft this year.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Thanks for the review. Your thoughts about my team echo my own. I thought my team was shaping up pretty generically style-wise so I could afford to wait on a coach and as Hart had a reputation as a "players coach" combined with the leadership I was able to accumulate, I thought it a good fit. I'm still figuring out the sweet spots for value and recognized pretty quickly after I passed on a goalie in the round I took Rob Blake that I'd end up with a lower level starter. If he sinks my team, then that's the way it's going to be. I think I'm getting better at this and really enjoyed the draft this year.

I think a good sign of "figuring it out" is how well a team is balanced across ES and special teams.

You did a really nice job of putting together a high end yet deep PP. The PK is fantastic as well.

Obviously going Crosby-Sakic meant your were going to suffer some on the back end but again, you still managed to piece together a very solid and deep group of players.

You're never going to look sterling at every position, even in a smaller draft, but you don't have many glaring weaknesses.

And at the end of the day, as long as you're having fun and learning something new, that's the gravy.

Thanks again bud and good luck!

 

[BenchBrawl]

Pittsburgh AC:

Original Red and White colours of the AC

"No individuals. One TEAM."

Coach: Pete Green

Captain: Scott Stevens
Alternate: Bobby Orr
Alternate: Yvan Cournoyer
Alternate: Joe Malone

ROSTER:

Forwards:

Johnny Bucyk - Joe Malone (A) - Vladimir Martinec
Bun Cook - Jacques Lemaire - Yvan Cournoyer (A)
Rusty Crawford - Dale Hawerchuk - Glenn Anderson
Nick Metz - Phil Goyette - Bill Guerin

Dave Poulin, Alex Tanguay

Defensemen:

Scott Stevens (C) - Bobby Orr (A)
Jacques Laperriere - Earl Seibert
Flash Hollett - Ken Morrow

Gennadiy Tsygankov

Goalies:

Johnny Bower
Hap Holmes

Special Teams:

PP1

Malone
Seibert - Cournoyer - Bucyk
Orr

PP2

Martinec - Lemaire - Anderson
Hawerchuk - Hollett

PK1

Cook - Metz
Stevens - Orr

PK2

Goyette/Poulin - Crawford/Martinec
Laperriere - Morrow/Tsygankov​

Thank you for reviewing my team bud. I'll return the favor this morning, and respond to your assassination later today or tomorrow. Been a little busier than I'd like.

This is definitely one of the most original team-building strategy I have ever witnessed in my 10 years of ATD, and one that, while looking completely crazy at first, really got me interested a few hours after you made your Stevens and Seibert picks when I started evaluating the possibilities.

Not surprisingly given your excellence in the last few years, this is a contender team. Pete Green is a great coach, thanks to your research, and he fits well with the team.

1st line, though lacking in any star forward, still passes as a legit 1st line, which is an accomplishment given where you started building it. Joe Malone was one of the best picks in the draft, because he was the last passable 1st line C IMO, with maybe Norm Ullman (but I guess I'm biased). But Malone was absolutely the right choice, as he *feels* the most like a true #1 C, albeit on the low-end. Martinec was another beauty where you got him, and he brings a pretty good two-way game and can make plays for Malone's goalscoring. Not as much a fan of Johnny Bucyk the more I look at him, but he's still an OK LW there.

Love the Lemaire-Cournoyer, probably a whole lot more than most. Huge fan of Lemaire, who was one of the smartest and versatile player of all-time. Like Patrik Elias, he could fill any role and was a coach's dream. Cournoyer is underrated in my book (by both VsX and people in general), and they have proven chemistry, where they spent their actual prime together (even if people remember the Lemaire-Lafleur duo more). Still undecided on Bun Cook, and I guess you'll have to wait for people to digest it, which will hurt you to some extent for this year (but it will be easier to do in the series, when the spotlight is more focused). The fact that he played on the #1 most stable line of all-time as a 3rd wheeler will always hurt him, or help him, and both work against each other. He does fit very well with Lemaire-Cournoyer tho, but not sure I'm willing to see him as a strong 2nd liner just yet. This line can go against any type of line.

Hawerchuk was a risky pick, though great value when you took him, his reputation as an all-around player is on shaky ground. Offensively, he's an elite 3rd liner, and Anderson is a great winger for him, bringing speed, clutch goals and net-crashing. Rusty Crawford not so familiar, but he looks to bring physical and defensive game, so I guess that line is alright on that front too. Definitely building this line condemned your team to have more of an offensive bent, despite being competent defensively, the forward lines are more biased towards offense in general, especially given your centers with Malone and Hawerchuk, both competent but clearly more offensive than defensive. Will be very dangerous line especially when Orr is backing them up (for some reason I see them and Orr working really well together).

4th line is solid. Guerin is a strong ES scorer with a physical game, Goyette a versatile center and Metz a strong defensive LWer.

Top pairing is magnificient. Stevens brings the terrorizing open ice hits, playing with the opponent's psychology, as well as elite defense and leadership, and Bobby Orr is the most impactful player that ever lived. The forwards lacking any elite piece will be boosted by having Orr (and Seibert) supporting them from the blueline, and must be seen within this perspective.

2nd pairing is a solid 1st pairing. Seibert is an average #1 who brings a bit of everything, and Laperrière is a heady stable presence. However, IMO the Laperrière pick was overkilled, and could have been used to grab another solid Top 6er. But shoulda woulda coulda, as it stands he's a real #2 playing #4 duty. Basically Pittsburgh can play almost the entire game with a 1st pairing on the ice, which is a significant advantage.

3rd pairing is meh but doesn't matter either way.

Johnny Bower was an excellent pick where you got him, even if he's below average in a draft of size 24. I regret not trading for that pick when you offered it to me, since I could have picked that damned Rick Middleton with it. But Bower was the best choice for you at G, and would have been my choice too, and here he's in the same environment as IRL playing behind an elite D.

1st PP unit is extremely strong, build around Orr's uber-elite PPQBacking, and Malone, Cournoyer, Seibert are all solid PP pieces. Bucyk is decent. Cournoyer used to be a PP specialist early in his career so I know he can excel there.

2nd unit is pretty good too.

1st PK unit is solid, though Cook looks to be the weakest piece.

2nd PK has Laperrière, which is insane. Hard to judge the rest since you didn't really precise who is playing, but if it's Goyette-Crawford, it's alright if unspectacular on first impression. You can correct me if I'm wrong on Goyette especially, never saw him as an elite PKer.

Overall, like I said up front, this is a very original team, and for that alone I applaud you. But it's not only original, it's also a solid team which will be tricky to evaluate in direct playoffs series, since its strenght is so embedded in their blueline, making every unit more dangerous because of it. They will probably have to be weighted as 5-men units to really get a feel of the pros and cons. You managed to draft a very respectable forward group despite starting late, though like I said I think the Laperrière draft pick was a missed opportunity to give your F a little bit more oomph, but as it is the F group is still good enough to make some noise. The blueline is probably the best in ATD history, from memory at least.

It will be interesting to follow your debating battles in the series, looking forward to seeing how far you can take this unique team-building concept.

Cheers!

 

[BraveCanadian]

Welcome back BC! Always good to have veterans come back into the fold and you predictably built a strong roster top to bottom.

Coaching:

Arbour is a top 5 coach ever. I have a lot of respect for him for his huge role in developing and building a dynasty from the ground up. Obviously the 4 straight Cups is the shining achievement but he also had strong longevity as a winner in the regular season.

Roster looks like one he'll be able to make noise with. I don't see a C that profiles like Trottier (uber physical, 200 foot type) but other than that, it works. He had Bossy so Ovechkin shouldn't be an issue.

Leadership:

Good corps group. Apps is a solid C and both Hap Day and Alf Smith were highly respected leaders in their day as well.


Forwards:

Fantastic top line. They'll score goals.

Really a nice meshing of players. Ovechkin being the centerpiece, he has a pivot that made a living off getting the puck to big, goal scoring wingers, the latter potting some impressive goal totals. If you're getting early era Ovechkin he and Hextall will be an absolute force on the forecheck and just in general. I don't think Ovi held that style of play long enough to get consistent credit at an ATD level, but even still, he's a load and along with Hextall, other squads better buckle up.

I especially think this is a line that will do most of it's damage when it can generate a cycle, puck possession, etc. Certainly not a line that should be considered good defensively, but not horrible by any means. They'll have to defend more than some.

Really nice 2nd line as well. Apps (especially) and Thompson are strong 2nd line players here. Alf Smith is obviously not a strong scoring line player, but he brings a shitload of physicality and was a good play maker in his day. One of the best as I recall pre 1910. You're not going to get strong defense out of Thompson or Apps (relative to the league) so Smith will have to lift the load there. Apps and Thompson are really strong offensively for a 2nd line role so Smith is in a position where he can really focus on the glue type activities.

3rd line is classic depth scoring unit and in that role, w/these minutes should do an admirable job.

4th line is much more of a defensive slant, though it's not overly impressive relative to many others.

I do think from an overall standpoint this is a F group on the whole that will generate quite a bit of offense, though top to bottom lacks consistent defensive presences. Some of that burden will shift to the D and G and you did a good job creating a strong corp in that area!


Power Play:

Lethal top unit. Ovi is so deadly here. Apps is a wizard with the puck and should make some good things happen with the players around him here. Plus he lead the league in PP goals multiple times. Hextall strikes me as a really rich man's Pat Hornqvist (who I saw a lot of in recent years) and Horny was an excellent PP presence at the net and just giving G's a hard time, pissing people off. Markov is a great use of a depth pairing player here. In a smaller draft he's nothing special on a top unit but alongside Park, I really like the fit. Park is elite here.

You have a nice depth unit of F's with Thompson, Oates, Stevens and Rousseau. I'll need to re-read on Bubla but even without that knowledge, I like this group more than some others I've reviewed.


Defensemen:

Johnson-Park is a nice top pairing. I have Park as a perfectly average #1 in a 24 team league. He's a premium puck mover and offensive catalyst from the back end. I think if you combine that ability with Johnson's nasty demeanor and defensive reputation, you have a Potvin replica! But seriously, Park is a solid #1 this year and Johnson probably on the lower end of the 2's but still a 2. It's a nice combination of styles and one that Arbour should like deploying.

I like the 2nd unit. Mantha is a 3 and Day a passable #4 here, being a strong defensive presence but capable of moving the puck in a pinch. He should fit well with Mantha, who possessed strong 2 way abilities. He led the Canadians D in scoring for years but had a noted defensive game when you pour through the old bio's. This should be a rock solid pair defending while still possessing enough offensive chops to not get bogged down too often.

Markov-Bubla seems weak even for a bottom pairing but they both do bring skills on special teams and that is a factor in their value.


Penalty Kill:

Love 3/4th's of the top unit. Luce is a horse, one of the greats at F. Johnson and Mantha both feature as strong PK options on the blueline. Tremblay on a 1st unit seems like a stretch but. there don't seem to be any other strong options. Maybe Alf Smith, but I can't recall how much was noted on his backchecking/defensive game.

Oates seems like a passable 2nd line C here. Not ideal but you could do worse. Not sure how much PK time Pronovost got though so I'll have to look closer on him. Day and Park seem like a good duo.


Goalies:

Dryden gives you an outright good starter this year. He'll probably be facing more shots due to lack of depth among defensive F's and while the D in front of him here isn't quite equal to that of the 70's Habs, it's a solid group, 3/4 of which should be considered strong defensive players. Rinne isn't a guy you want in the playoffs but as a regular season helper, he's good.

Overall:

You built a good roster in your return bud! It's not a roster that jumps off the page at first, but you have a really nice wealth of scoring in the top 9 and a sneaky solid top 4 on the back end. I like the 1st and 2nd lines a good bit and your top 4. Dryden will give you a chance in any match up and an advantage in some.

Thanks for coming back and appreciate your review of my roster earlier in the proceedings!

Appreciate the assassination. Just wanted to point out that Tremblay had a pretty high usage on the penalty kill. If you look at overpass' spreadsheet his numbers and his team's effectiveness are very similar to Jere Lehtinen (only over fewer games). Pronovost had a lower usage than Tremblay for teams that were roughly average on the PK over his career, but his use varied a lot through his career. At times he had very high usage for above average units and other times below average units. In any case he's at home on the PK. He's a player I honestly didn't know a lot about before this draft but came away pretty impressed with his all around game.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Thank you for reviewing my team bud. I'll return the favor this morning, and respond to your assassination later today or tomorrow. Been a little busier than I'd like.

This is definitely one of the most original team-building strategy I have ever witnessed in my 10 years of ATD, and one that, while looking completely crazy at first, really got me interested a few hours after you made your Stevens and Seibert picks when I started evaluating the possibilities.

Not surprisingly given your excellence in the last few years, this is a contender team. Pete Green is a great coach, thanks to your research, and he fits well with the team.

1st line, though lacking in any star forward, still passes as a legit 1st line, which is an accomplishment given where you started building it. Joe Malone was one of the best picks in the draft, because he was the last passable 1st line C IMO, with maybe Norm Ullman (but I guess I'm biased). But Malone was absolutely the right choice, as he *feels* the most like a true #1 C, albeit on the low-end. Martinec was another beauty where you got him, and he brings a pretty good two-way game and can make plays for Malone's goalscoring. Not as much a fan of Johnny Bucyk the more I look at him, but he's still an OK LW there.

Love the Lemaire-Cournoyer, probably a whole lot more than most. Huge fan of Lemaire, who was one of the smartest and versatile player of all-time. Like Patrik Elias, he could fill any role and was a coach's dream. Cournoyer is underrated in my book (by both VsX and people in general), and they have proven chemistry, where they spent their actual prime together (even if people remember the Lemaire-Lafleur duo more). Still undecided on Bun Cook, and I guess you'll have to wait for people to digest it, which will hurt you to some extent for this year (but it will be easier to do in the series, when the spotlight is more focused). The fact that he played on the #1 most stable line of all-time as a 3rd wheeler will always hurt him, or help him, and both work against each other. He does fit very well with Lemaire-Cournoyer tho, but not sure I'm willing to see him as a strong 2nd liner just yet. This line can go against any type of line.

Hawerchuk was a risky pick, though great value when you took him, his reputation as an all-around player is on shaky ground. Offensively, he's an elite 3rd liner, and Anderson is a great winger for him, bringing speed, clutch goals and net-crashing. Rusty Crawford not so familiar, but he looks to bring physical and defensive game, so I guess that line is alright on that front too. Definitely building this line condemned your team to have more of an offensive bent, despite being competent defensively, the forward lines are more biased towards offense in general, especially given your centers with Malone and Hawerchuk, both competent but clearly more offensive than defensive. Will be very dangerous line especially when Orr is backing them up (for some reason I see them and Orr working really well together).

4th line is solid. Guerin is a strong ES scorer with a physical game, Goyette a versatile center and Metz a strong defensive LWer.

Top pairing is magnificient. Stevens brings the terrorizing open ice hits, playing with the opponent's psychology, as well as elite defense and leadership, and Bobby Orr is the most impactful player that ever lived. The forwards lacking any elite piece will be boosted by having Orr (and Seibert) supporting them from the blueline, and must be seen within this perspective.

2nd pairing is a solid 1st pairing. Seibert is an average #1 who brings a bit of everything, and Laperrière is a heady stable presence. However, IMO the Laperrière pick was overkilled, and could have been used to grab another solid Top 6er. But shoulda woulda coulda, as it stands he's a real #2 playing #4 duty. Basically Pittsburgh can play almost the entire game with a 1st pairing on the ice, which is a significant advantage.

3rd pairing is meh but doesn't matter either way.

Johnny Bower was an excellent pick where you got him, even if he's below average in a draft of size 24. I regret not trading for that pick when you offered it to me, since I could have picked that damned Rick Middleton with it. But Bower was the best choice for you at G, and would have been my choice too, and here he's in the same environment as IRL playing behind an elite D.

1st PP unit is extremely strong, build around Orr's uber-elite PPQBacking, and Malone, Cournoyer, Seibert are all solid PP pieces. Bucyk is decent. Cournoyer used to be a PP specialist early in his career so I know he can excel there.

2nd unit is pretty good too.

1st PK unit is solid, though Cook looks to be the weakest piece.

2nd PK has Laperrière, which is insane. Hard to judge the rest since you didn't really precise who is playing, but if it's Goyette-Crawford, it's alright if unspectacular on first impression. You can correct me if I'm wrong on Goyette especially, never saw him as an elite PKer.

Overall, like I said up front, this is a very original team, and for that alone I applaud you. But it's not only original, it's also a solid team which will be tricky to evaluate in direct playoffs series, since its strenght is so embedded in their blueline, making every unit more dangerous because of it. They will probably have to be weighted as 5-men units to really get a feel of the pros and cons. You managed to draft a very respectable forward group despite starting late, though like I said I think the Laperrière draft pick was a missed opportunity to give your F a little bit more oomph, but as it is the F group is still good enough to make some noise. The blueline is probably the best in ATD history, from memory at least.

It will be interesting to follow your debating battles in the series, looking forward to seeing how far you can take this unique team-building concept.

Cheers!

Thanks for the review my friend! No major arguments from me sir. Glad people enjoyed the risk I took haha! Wasn't sure how it'd turn out but by and large, I'm really happy with the final product.

Just to touch on a few points:

1. Bun Cook won't be sold as a strong 2nd liner. I don't think he is, even with the additional information I unearthed.

I do think he's an average 2nd liner, because his 2 way game is pretty well detailed now. I mean prior to my bio the general idea had Cook as an overrated VsX player who didn't bring much to the table, beyond the points he was leeching from Boucher/Bill.

His offense, as long as he doesn't have to carry the load or be looked as the 2nd most important player on a 2nd line, is acceptable IMO. There are some 2nd line wingers in the league this year with worse offensive value's.

And with Lemaire-Cournoyer, he can do exactly what he did in real life and that's act as the trailing forward, the defensive conscious, which should allow the other 2 players to be aggressive offensively speaking. Lemaire-Cournoyer had their best seasons skating together at ES and I wanted to ensure they had a line mate who would check some of the boxes they don't, meaning fore checking, defensive (though Lemaire is good) ability, and also speed, as we know how great Lemaire/Cournoyer were on the steel blades. I really like the ability of this line to out skate just about any other F line or D pairing. They're going to be extremely dangerous on the transition, rushes, north and south, especially when Orr is on the ice.

Touching on Cook's PK ability, I think if you read the bio, the 2 things that are spoken about the most (other GM's like TDMM have echoed this) relative to what we didn't known before about Cook, was his sterling defensive reputation and his seemingly big usage + strong reputation as a PK'er. You specifically see him compared to Cylone Taylor and Duke Keats in his ability to rag the puck on the kill, which is huge contemporary praise, and highlights his technical skill along with skating speed. Multiple city newspapers cited him as being the NHL's best puck ragger, not a small feat in the late 20's/early 30's when we consider who the star F's and noted defensive players were then.

So in essence we now know much more clearly:

1. Cook was an integral part of the Bread Line, even driving it for at least one season. When he missed a game here or there, the line had trouble operating as it normally did when he was present. When you can see papers in Montreal, Ottawa, Bangor Maine talking about his importance and dismissing the notion that Bun was just a ride along, I think you have to take notice. That doesn't mean he was on the level of the other 2, or even close, but it does mean he shouldn't get dismissed as someone who did little for the unit, which is what I think just about everyone has been doing for an obvious reason.

2. Cook was an outstanding defensive player. That is based on the many instances within game reports, but also more importantly, contemporary praise beyond just the typical "player x backchecked hard all game". You see this post career in testimony by Frank Selke and Lester Patrick, speaking about his merits for the HOF. So those post career comments are really solidified by the content I found. IMO.

3. Cook was an outstanding PK player. Again, same thing as the straight defensive praise. Cook, over many years is cited as being on the kill often, and being a big difference maker there, largely as someone who could stall w/the puck, creating valuable time for the Rangers to rest. So he clearly was killing penalties throughout his career AND was receiving notable praise by writers for his talents there. Does that make him an elite PK player in the ATD? No, but compared to many other older era players who get put on a PK unit, the volume of information he has to his name, is significant. With his elite speed, great hockey IQ, stick handling, and defensive rep/PK rep, I think he's a perfectly acceptable player in a top unit killing role. There's simply too much meat there IMO and looking at the rosters this year, I'd put his updated resume against a decent # of the players I see manning a top spot at F.

As far as Goyette goes, he'll likely come off the ice for Poulin in match ups featuring a really good #1C where I want more of a defensive pushback, so in those cases Poulin would be on the top unit with Bun Cook and Metz would shift down to the 2nd unit with Martinec.

If Goyette is playing:

Cook-Metz
Goyette-Martinec

If Poulin is playing:

Cook-Poulin
Metz-Martinec


....


I wanted to touch on the point you made regarding what the D/2nd pairing brings to the table, namely the significant advantage you highlight.

That was a big factor in wanting to go the route I did. Simply from a tactical perspective, having a top 4 of that magnitude would really present a tough challenge and argument from opposing teams and it allowed me to target a goalie later than I would normally do, Bower being one of those guys specifically as he benefited from having a stellar blue line during his peak.

Even if you can get away from Stevens-Orr, you have another top pairing to contend with. And not a fringe top pairing that you need to crane your neck to get to. Seibert is comfortably in the #1 camp and Laperriere certainly falls inside 48 (the cut off for a #2 in a 24 team draft) Dmen all time. At least half of the teams in the league don't have that much talent on their top pairing if I'm being conservative.

So for 50-55 minutes a night, you're pounding against a 1, 1, 1, 2.

The timeshare these guys can handle and the obstruction they present is certainly unique. There are no easy outs. You aren't going to out skate them. Not going to out physical them.

3 of the 4 were Smythe winners (if you count the retro for Seibert) so you know in the clutch these guys will deliver more than most.



Thanks again for the time to review the roster bud. Much appreciated and I look forward to the banter to come!

 

[ImporterExporter]

Appreciate the assassination. Just wanted to point out that Tremblay had a pretty high usage on the penalty kill. If you look at overpass' spreadsheet his numbers and his team's effectiveness are very similar to Jere Lehtinen (only over fewer games). Pronovost had a lower usage than Tremblay for teams that were roughly average on the PK over his career, but his use varied a lot through his career. At times he had very high usage for above average units and other times below average units. In any case he's at home on the PK. He's a player I honestly didn't know a lot about before this draft but came away pretty impressed with his all around game.

Special teams roles - 1960-2017

Yes sir, my pleasure!

It shows Tremblay at 39%. I guess I think of that more of a 2nd unit guy but maybe I'm being to rigid or are there updated figures I'm not seeing?

I'm not seeing Pronovost there either. Suspecting he's just below the cutoff on that particular chart. If that's the case then he certainly wouldn't be a poor choice for the 2nd unit.

At the end of the day they aren't world beaters but also shouldn't get abused. Plus you have Luce there and your defensemen are very good.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Hey bud, thanks once again for being a part of this thing and sticking it out even though I know this is the last go for you. It's been a pleasure over the years sir without a doubt!

Coaching:

Trotz has really helped his case over the last few years. Finally got that elusive Cup in Washington and has done a good job in NY since then, pushing an Islanders team above the talent it has on paper, largely through extremely boring but very effective trap/defensive hockey. I've changed my perception on him the last 2/3 years now.

Probably an average coach in a draft this size, he should really like the roster he has in front of him here. Many years with Ovechkin in real life, so Bobby Hull won't be an issue at all. One of the deepest groups of forwards in the ATD as well as blue lines.


Leadership:

Solid group. Not spectacular, not bad.


Forwards:

Strength of this team. Really like the entire group, for the most part.

Top line is 2/3 elite. Hull/Schmidt is a hellova combo. Shouldn't need to expand on that much, but I don't like Wheeler here and I think we talked on that before. Sure he's an 80 on the VsX scale, but only a 1 time AS (2nd team) and has no playoff record to note. I feel like Blake is one of these guys who basically gets drafted because his name stands out on that VsX list but he simply doesn't have the resume to be up here IMO and he's not exactly a physical presence, even for a big guy, not a defensive difference maker. Never got the hype on him over the years.

I'd absolutely get Kane on that top line and make it a near unstoppable trio. Kane has the play making chops for the line and with the size/physical ability of the other 2, he doesn't really have to play out of his element as he does in real life.

I think Wheeler is certainly a passable 2nd liner here and with Ullman and Dumart already on that unit, it would still be a strong depth scoring line, with defensive chops as well. Dave Taylor, with his ES scoring abilities and ferocious checking could also moonlight on the 2nd line as well but either way, I would definitely get Kane on the top line as you have the depth at F to not have to split a guy like Hull/Kane.

Just my .02 of course!

2nd line as it stands is obviously fantastic! Checks all the boxes and Kane is obviously an elite presence on a 2nd line and Ullman a very strong C. Dumart looks like a real solid 2LW.

Love that 3rd line. Don't need to get to in depth. You have a great playmaking winger in Giroux, big/physical goal scoring C and a strong 2 way, super physical player in Taylor on the RW. This group should definitely make some waves when they establish control in the offensive zone and can work the cycle.

Depth of F's shows very much in the bottom 6 and the 4th line is no different. Strong defensive unit all together, thoough Mosdell and Topp bring some solid counter abilities for this role. Davidson is crazy physical and will definitely feature well when opposing the big, physical RWs.

Really love what you did at F this year BB. Only gripe is Wheeler but beyond that it's one of the best groups top to bottom I've reviewed!


Power Play

Along with a few other groups, this is a lethal top unit. Hull, Cameron is ridiculous up top. You're going to have to get a bit more aggressive on Hull as you can't let him sit up there slapping bombs with regularity. Kane, Giroux and Schmidt are a fantastic trio at F w/all the offensive traits you want up with the man advantage. Plus you have another pair of blue liners (Seibert and Cleghorn) capable of playing on the top unit, which would allow Hull to move down into an Ovechkin like spot, just to give teams a different look.

Really good depth group, especially the point men in Babe/Sprague.


Defensemen:

Another great unit top to bottom.

Cleghorn is a solid #1 this year. Obviously we know he can be a bit of a lunatic but he's really strong in both directions, can skate, hit, fight, help on both special teams units. Coulter is a nice partner in that he is more of a defensive player but was a strong skater and capable of moving the puck himself so you have that ability on both sides. Really, really physical pair so it'll be a rough ride throughout a series. Coulter features as a low end 2/premium 3 in a draft this size. Like this pair a lot. They can do damage going both ways.

Can't argue the 2nd pairing either. Both strong #3's, you've got plenty of puck moving ability, solid D, though not as air tight as the top pair IMO.

Rock solid bottom pair.

The blue line isn't going to blow you away per say, but you have a sold #1, a borderline 2, and a pair of 3's on the 2nd pair. That'll give you advantage in some match ups for sure. And I like the overall mix of players. Really physical group.


Penalty Kill:

Rock solid group overall. Love the F's all around, they'll almost surely get you a goal or 2 shorthanded over a deep playoff run.

Great defenders as well.


Goalies:

Given how much I like the F's/D this was bound to happen. Hainwsworth is obviously a weak goalie here. Possibly the worst (have to look at everyone together) starter. With that being said, he does have an above average D corps in front of him. Plus the premium nature and depth of F's + puck moving blue liners should allow for generally good/great scoring outputs.

In some games it'll basically come down to how well Hainsworth handles more volume.

Kippy is a solid backup.


Overall:

One of the better F/D combo's you'll find in the league. Very strong scoring potential. Solid blue line.

Basically come down to how well the D/Hainsworth holds up and whether Trotz can match wits.

Per the norm BB, a great entry sir! Good luck!

Thanks again for the review, always nice to get your feedback IE.

I agree with almost everything so I'll just make a few quick comments:

I considered stacking up Hull-Schmidt-Kane., which is a Kraut-like line on its own. Dumart was a bit of a Hull-like player with his big shot and physical play, tho obviously it's a stretched comparison. Kane is literally a better Bauer from what I see so it could work. I guess I might do it depending who I'm facing, but I like the option of sending two top duos on different lines, and I don't think the 3rd wheel is that important, as long as he fits in with the general set-up of the unit. I know Wheeler is an eyesore on the 1st, but that's just because we hierarchize the lines, whereas they'll all play more or less the same ES icetime.

Hainsworth is among the weakest Gs for sure, but at least he proved his worth in the playoffs, which is not the case of every G out there. I can't stand choking goalies. Hainsworth will provide reliable if unspectacular goaltending, and won't crumble as the playoffs advance. That's all Montreal is asking from him.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Hartford Whalers

Coach: Peter Laviolette

Valeri Kharlamov - Doug Gilmour (A) - Andy Bathgate
Sweeney Schriner - Pavel Datsyuk - Dino Ciccarelli
Igor Liba (A) - Vyacheslav Starshinov - Nikita Kucherov
Craig Ramsay - Ryan Kesler - Jere Lehtinen

Dave Andreychuk, Pat Verbeek

Duncan Keith - Ray Bourque (C)
Brad McCrimmon - Eric Desjardins
Doug Mohns - Bob Baun
Al Iafrate

Jiří Holeček
Harry Lumley

PP1: Kharlamov - Gilmour - Ciccarelli - Bathgate - Bourque
PP2: Schriner - Starshinov - Kucherov - Datsyuk - Desjardins

PK1: Ramsay - Kesler - Keith - Bourque
PK2: Lehtinen - Gilmour - McCrimmon - Baun
PK3: Liba - Datsyuk - Mohns - Desjardins​

Peter Laviolette is a below-average coach but I like the fit he brings with this lineup, who are more focused on skills and reminds me a bit of the mid-2000s Carolina.

First line is great with two elite wingers centered by the two-way and gritty Gilmour. IMO Kharlamov is clearly the best player on that line and will run the offense, but Bathgate is strong support who can provide both goals and make plays. I think Kharlamov has gotten underrated or underappreciated in recent years on HoH and in the ATD section. He feels like the treatment Guy Lafleur was getting pre-2017-2020 ish, before he started being a pillar of multiple championship teams.

2nd line has a nice duo in Schriner-Datsyuk, but Cicarelli looks a bit like an eyesore. I guess he is your actual 4th best RWer, so not surprising. The Schriner-Datsyuk duo provides a ton of skills and Datsyuk support's Gilmour's two-way game at center.

I guess as a whole your Top 6 seems to be a bit lacking in physicality.

3rd line is magnificient. I really love the Starshinov-Kucherov duo, and I think Kuch is a solid 2nd line RWer by this point. He brings the playmaking and Starshinov the goalscoring + physicality, grit and defense. Liba is a good support as the two-way generic 3rd wheel, making the unit better than the usm of its parts.

4th line is also magnificient. You had to pay a price inside your Top 6 with Cicarelli to pull what is probably the best bottom 6 in the draft. Here you have the best shut-down line in the league. All three are elite defensive players.

Overall I like that all your centers provide a strong two-way game, and each of the first three lines have a really good duo in terms of skills (Kharlamov-Bathgate, Schriner-Datsyuk, Starshinov-Kucherov), so that makes it a tricky team to match up against, especially if the 1st pairing is on the ice.

Speaking of which, 1st pairing is elite; Bourque is a Top 3 D, and Keith an elite #2. What else to say? Bourque should be there for half the game, and I think they fit well together. Keith eve ncovers for the "weakest" part of Bourque's resume, his playoffs (even if that's a stretch in itself).

2nd pairing lacks a top #3 but has two steady and honest average #3Ds. A bit low on offense, but Desjardins was an intelligent player who could handle the transition. They can be counted on to hold the fort even against top opponents while the Keith-Bourque pairing rests.

Man, watching some games earlier this winter Doug Mohns is probably the players I was the most impressed with (among those I didn't know so well). What that means in the grand scheme of things I don't know, but he left a good impression. Very skilled. Bob Baun is a steady bottom-pairing defensive guy.

Overall the blueline is excellent. Only thing missing is a real anchor for the 2nd pairing.

Holecek was great value where you got him. You did well to wait on your G.

Love the 1st PP, the pointmen are really strong and the forwards fit their respective roles. Cicarelli is the garbage goal getter, though Andreychuk would be a bit better but he's in the pressbox. Kharlamov will run the PP along with Bourque.

PP2 is really good too. Crazy amount of skills for a 2nd unit to be honest, and Starshinov is a great net man too. How much did Datsyuk play on the PP point?

PK is insanely good. Veyr few PP goals will be scored against your team, because they won't take a lot of penalties and then you have that elite PK. I do wonder who is a better PKer between Gilmour, Datsyuk and Starshinov. I would be tempted to consider finding Starshinov a spot there, but not sure if he should go over those guys.

Overall this is another pro-level entry from you, despite not playing the ATD every year, you don't seem to lose that touch to find good value (Kucherov, Holecek comes to mind, but others as well) and putting the pieces together to build a solid, contending team. I will always remember you as my very 1st opponent back in ATD2011, where you defeated me easily. Big strenghts of the team is the distribution of skills throughout the F group, two-way cohesion down the center line, good duos on all lines, elite 1st pairing and one of the best bottom 6 of the draft. Weakness is Cicarelli on the 2,d no top #3D and a top 6 that is a bit on the soft side.

Anyway, those are my first impressions, nothing set in stone or overthought. I'm really glad you decided to join this year, the draft is always better with you around. Cheers !

 

[MadArcand]

Peter Laviolette is a below-average coach but I like the fit he brings with this lineup, who are more focused on skills and reminds me a bit of the mid-2000s Carolina.

First line is great with two elite wingers centered by the two-way and gritty Gilmour. IMO Kharlamov is clearly the best player on that line and will run the offense, but Bathgate is strong support who can provide both goals and make plays. I think Kharlamov has gotten underrated or underappreciated in recent years on HoH and in the ATD section. He feels like the treatment Guy Lafleur was getting pre-2017-2020 ish, before he started being a pillar of multiple championship teams.

2nd line has a nice duo in Schriner-Datsyuk, but Cicarelli looks a bit like an eyesore. I guess he is your actual 4th best RWer, so not surprising. The Schriner-Datsyuk duo provides a ton of skills and Datsyuk support's Gilmour's two-way game at center.

I guess as a whole your Top 6 seems to be a bit lacking in physicality.

3rd line is magnificient. I really love the Starshinov-Kucherov duo, and I think Kuch is a solid 2nd line RWer by this point. He brings the playmaking and Starshinov the goalscoring + physicality, grit and defense. Liba is a good support as the two-way generic 3rd wheel, making the unit better than the usm of its parts.

4th line is also magnificient. You had to pay a price inside your Top 6 with Cicarelli to pull what is probably the best bottom 6 in the draft. Here you have the best shut-down line in the league. All three are elite defensive players.

Overall I like that all your centers provide a strong two-way game, and each of the first three lines have a really good duo in terms of skills (Kharlamov-Bathgate, Schriner-Datsyuk, Starshinov-Kucherov), so that makes it a tricky team to match up against, especially if the 1st pairing is on the ice.

Speaking of which, 1st pairing is elite; Bourque is a Top 3 D, and Keith an elite #2. What else to say? Bourque should be there for half the game, and I think they fit well together. Keith eve ncovers for the "weakest" part of Bourque's resume, his playoffs (even if that's a stretch in itself).

2nd pairing lacks a top #3 but has two steady and honest average #3Ds. A bit low on offense, but Desjardins was an intelligent player who could handle the transition. They can be counted on to hold the fort even against top opponents while the Keith-Bourque pairing rests.

Man, watching some games earlier this winter Doug Mohns is probably the players I was the most impressed with (among those I didn't know so well). What that means in the grand scheme of things I don't know, but he left a good impression. Very skilled. Bob Baun is a steady bottom-pairing defensive guy.

Overall the blueline is excellent. Only thing missing is a real anchor for the 2nd pairing.

Holecek was great value where you got him. You did well to wait on your G.

Love the 1st PP, the pointmen are really strong and the forwards fit their respective roles. Cicarelli is the garbage goal getter, though Andreychuk would be a bit better but he's in the pressbox. Kharlamov will run the PP along with Bourque.

PP2 is really good too. Crazy amount of skills for a 2nd unit to be honest, and Starshinov is a great net man too. How much did Datsyuk play on the PP point?

PK is insanely good. Veyr few PP goals will be scored against your team, because they won't take a lot of penalties and then you have that elite PK. I do wonder who is a better PKer between Gilmour, Datsyuk and Starshinov. I would be tempted to consider finding Starshinov a spot there, but not sure if he should go over those guys.

Overall this is another pro-level entry from you, despite not playing the ATD every year, you don't seem to lose that touch to find good value (Kucherov, Holecek comes to mind, but others as well) and putting the pieces together to build a solid, contending team. I will always remember you as my very 1st opponent back in ATD2011, where you defeated me easily. Big strenghts of the team is the distribution of skills throughout the F group, two-way cohesion down the center line, good duos on all lines, elite 1st pairing and one of the best bottom 6 of the draft. Weakness is Cicarelli on the 2,d no top #3D and a top 6 that is a bit on the soft side.

Anyway, those are my first impressions, nothing set in stone or overthought. I'm really glad you decided to join this year, the draft is always better with you around. Cheers !

Thanks for the kind review. Yeah Cicarelli is sub-par in his slot, but I needed to get some physicality somewhere and Tocchet was stolen from me. I think Desjardins - McCrimmon make for above average 2nd pairing, even if neither is indeed a top end #3.

 

[ResilientBeast]

So open voting on friday through the weekend and get the playoffs started Monday?

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Apologies for being away the last couple weeks. It started off with an off-the-grid type vacation for a few days, but then I came back to some chaos in my personal/work life. I will get my roster posted here today and try to at least make some comments on other teams.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I'm still going to try to get some Bios done for the guys that don't have them, but here's the Shamrocks, have at em...


Chicago Shamrocks

Coach: Pat Burns

Paul Kariya - Frank Boucher - Jarome Iginla (A)
Jamie Benn - Henri Richard (A) - Cecil Dillon
Zach Parise - Duke Keats* - Corey Perry
Brenden Morrow - Edgar Laprade* - Eric Nesterenko

*H. Richard will take several shifts on both the 3rd and 4th lines (see chart below)

Frantisek Pospisil (C) - Doug Harvey
Kevin Lowe - Bill Quackenbush
Mike Ramsey - Joe Simpson

Charlie Gardiner
Evgeni Nabokov

Spares: Taylor Hall (LW), Bill Thoms (C - limited time at W), Brent Seabrook (D)

PP1
Kariya - Boucher - Iginla
Harvey - Simpson

PP2
Benn - Keats - Perry
Pospisil - Quackenbush

PK1
Laprade - Nesterenko
Ramsey - Harvey

PK2
Boucher - Dillon
Lowe - Quackenbush

Extra PK F: H. Richard
Extra PK D: Pospisil
​

Estimated Minutes Chart
Notes
- When trailing in the 3rd Keats will get more shifts on the 3rd line and H. Richard will take more of Laprade's shifts on the 4th line
- When leading in the 3rd Laprade will get some of Keats' shifts on the 3rd line
- Zach Parise will take most of Brenden Morrow's shifts on the 4th line when H. Richard is centering
- LW Flexibility: if the 1st line finds themselves in a situation where Burns would like more defensive ability in the ice, Parise can be sent out for that shift and Kariya can get his minutes back playing on the 3rd or 4th line on one of the shifts when H. Richard is centering.
- Harvey will get some shifts with Simpson, before or after which Quackenbush will play with Pospisil
- Harvey and Quackenbush will see some shifts together at end of periods and critical situations

Forwards
Player	ES	PP	PK	Total
P. Kariya	14	4		18
F. Boucher	14	4	3	21
J. Iginla	14	4		18
J. Benn	13	3		16
H. Richard	20			20
C. Dillon	14		3	17
Z. Parise	13			13
D. Keats	8	3		11
C. Perry	11	3		14
B. Morrow	6			6
E. Laprade	4		4	8
E. Nesterenko	7		4	11
TOTAL	138	21	14	173
Defense
Player	ES	PP	PK	Total
D. Harvey	19	5	4	28
F. Pospisil	19	2		21
B. Quackenbush	18	2	3	23
K. Lowe	12		3	15
J. Simpson	13	5		18
M. Ramsey	11		4	15
TOTAL	92	14	14	120

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Staying Out of The Box - Lady Byng Finishes (Top 20)
Boucher: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 4
Kariya: 1, 1, 5, 6, 6, 6, 10, 12, 15
Quackenbush: 1, 3, 4, 4, 4
Laprade: 1, 3, 4, 4, 5
Dillon: 3, 3, 5
H. Richard: 4, 5
Parise: 3, 9, 14
Iginla: 7, 9, 13, 17, 18, 18
Pospisil: [Joe Pelletier: "Pospisil was blessed with good size and great strength. He was a feared physical player in international hockey, though he always played cleanly. He relied primarily on hockey smarts and positional defense."]
Thoms: 3

Years wearing the "C"
Pospisil: 6 years (national team)
H. Richard: 4 years
Iginla: 9 years
------------------
Benn: 8 years
Kariya: 7 years
Morrow: 7 years
Ramsey: 3 years
Harvey: 1 year
Gardiner: 1 year
Keats: 1 year (possibly more in Edmonton)
Lowe: 1 year
Parise: 1 year

 

[ImporterExporter]

So open voting on friday through the weekend and get the playoffs started Monday?

That's what I was thinking.

Do we need to find someone other than @Theokritos to tally up the regular season/playoff voting?

Apologies for being away the last couple weeks. It started off with an off-the-grid type vacation for a few days, but then I came back to some chaos in my personal/work life. I will get my roster posted here today and try to at least make some comments on other teams.

No worries at all sir! Hopefully nothing to serious on the home front bud.

 

[Theokritos]

Do we need to find someone other than @Theokritos to tally up the regular season/playoff voting?

Yes, you will have to.

I won't be able to do it in 2021. Too busy all around.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Yes, you will have to.

Was pretty sure about that, just wanted to tag and confirm. Thank you for the quick reply and help overall these years sir!

 

[ImporterExporter]

Montreal Maroons

Home: Montreal Forum; Montreal, QC
Two-Time Stanley Cup Champs (1926, 1935)

Coach: Fred Shero
Captain: Jack Stewart
Alternates: Howie Morenz & Aurele Joliat

Aurele Joliat - Howie Morenz - Brett Hull
Vladimir Krutov - Bill Cowley - Bill Mosienko
George Hay - Frank Fredrickson - Bernie Morris
Murray Murdoch - Dick Irvin - Rick Tocchet

Lionel Hitchman - Jack Stewart
Lionel Conacher - Red Horner
Jim Neilson - Red Dutton
Sandis Ozolinsh

Terry Sawchuk
Gump Worsley

Extra Skaters: Ab McDonald, Dan Bain

PP1: Krutov, Cowley, Morenz - Ozolinsh, Hull
PP2: Joliat, Irvin, Hay - Neilson, Mosienko
PK1: Morenz-Joliat, Hitchman, Stewart
PK2: Murdoch, Fredrickson, Conacher, Dutton​

Welcome back bud! Once again, thank you for participating and adding a new face to the draft in recent years. The only way this thing keeps going is if we get new blood from time to time.


Coaching:

Shero is a top 10 coach of all time, probably setting into the back end of that range for me.

I think you have 1 part of the team he'll really like, and another that doesn't "seem" like it's a total fit.

The D corps really screams Shero. It's extremely physical, very defensive in nature. The group of forwards is certainly more slanted offensively and I'm not entirely sure they are as physical and willing to engage in the type of hockey Shero usually employed at the height of his coaching career.

With that being said, he's still a good coach in a draft this size and was fairly innovative so I'm confident he'll be able to make due with what he has here and it's a really solid group of skaters + G.


Leadership

Jack Stewart strikes me as an economy version of Scott Stevens. Not sure he's quite got that reputation that Stevens had as a leader but its almost impossible to really tell with the older era guys unless a lot is written about them. Stewart was only a captain for a few years but seemed to be respected by folks, even though he was a heavy body checker.

I don't think Morenz or Joliat were captains at any point. Conacher was briefly for 2 teams. Dutton was captain for the Americans for 5 years. Irvin was for a few years in Chicago.

No major standouts but you do have a collection of players who were at least briefly in leadership roles throughout the roster.


Forwards:

1st line is lethal from an overall talent standpoint. The real life chemistry is there with Joliat-Morenz. Both are excellent top line players here, Morenz especially so. Hull is a pretty good RW on a top line, but I'm not sure he's a great fit. I mean I think he'll certainly enjoy playing with the other talents, but when it comes to function, the line doesn't really have a natural puck winner IMO. Who's going to win the puck battles down low against the most physical players the ATD has to offer?

Overall the line is extremely talented and among the better scoring units in the league.

2nd line is really strong offensively. Cowley is a higher end #2 here. Same with Krutov. They bring a lot of scoring to a 2nd line. Compliment each other well. Playing with the offensive quality of those 2 should really help Mosienko to max out his own production, which isn't great but passable here. I think the group will be on the defensive a good bit so you'll deal with some back and forth going, especially against other quality scoring lines. Again, not much physicality from Cowley or Mosienko, though Krutov certainly played an aggressive game so he'll have to be the primary fore checker. Lot of speed here.

3rd line is classic depth scoring unit. I'll have to re-read Hay's bio just to get a read on any defensive value. Really good scoring depth here, just doesn't seem like much in the way of defensive play at first glance.

4th line is solid. Energy, fore checking.

Overall, one of the better scoring groups in the ATD. I do think this is a forward group that may get pushed around a bit by some teams, and they defensive acumen on the whole is pretty weak. With that being said, they'll score goals and looking at the blue line there is a strong defensive slant.


Power Play:

F's are elite on the top unit. Ozolinsh is ok and I'm guessing he'll be playing on the bottom pairing as I see him listed as a spare. Obviously the lack of offensive ability from the blue line hurts here. 2nd unit seems average, Joliat being the only impressive player.


Defensemen:

Defensively, very strong. These guys are all more or less defensive defensemen. You have a couple of strong/good #2's in Stewart and Conacher to anchor each pairing. Overall though, the big issue is how well will these guys be able to get out of their own end, especially against the aggressive forechecking squads. These guys will all defend very well for their role, no doubt, I just think it's a group who will get hemmed in the D zone more than many others.


Penalty Kill:

Not a bad idea going with Joliat and Morenz on the top unit given the roster make up. I'd move Conacher up top with Stewart. That'd be a lethal combination on a PK. As it stands now the Dmen on the 2nd unit are quite strong, forwards less so IMO.


Goalies:

Sawchuk is going to have to put the team on his back at times, but he's a strong goalie, even in a 24 team draft so you're in better hands than most. Worsley is a good back up, a great tandem to be sure!


Overall:

Strong top 9 forward group, capable of producing a good bit of offense. D corps is strong in their own end, top to bottom, but will face some challenges in transition, generating chances from the blue line and on the PP. Sawchuk is a big presence here as the F group doesn't have a lot of players known for defensive play and while the D corps can certainly defend well, at times they will likely get bogged down in their own zone, so having a great goalie certainly helps. Would certainly be interesting to see if Fred Shero could make it all work!

Thanks again for sticking with us sir!

 

[nabby12]

Welcome back bud! Once again, thank you for participating and adding a new face to the draft in recent years. The only way this thing keeps going is if we get new blood from time to time.


Coaching:

Shero is a top 10 coach of all time, probably setting into the back end of that range for me.

I think you have 1 part of the team he'll really like, and another that doesn't "seem" like it's a total fit.

The D corps really screams Shero. It's extremely physical, very defensive in nature. The group of forwards is certainly more slanted offensively and I'm not entirely sure they are as physical and willing to engage in the type of hockey Shero usually employed at the height of his coaching career.

With that being said, he's still a good coach in a draft this size and was fairly innovative so I'm confident he'll be able to make due with what he has here and it's a really solid group of skaters + G.


Leadership

Jack Stewart strikes me as an economy version of Scott Stevens. Not sure he's quite got that reputation that Stevens had as a leader but its almost impossible to really tell with the older era guys unless a lot is written about them. Stewart was only a captain for a few years but seemed to be respected by folks, even though he was a heavy body checker.

I don't think Morenz or Joliat were captains at any point. Conacher was briefly for 2 teams. Dutton was captain for the Americans for 5 years. Irvin was for a few years in Chicago.

No major standouts but you do have a collection of players who were at least briefly in leadership roles throughout the roster.


Forwards:

1st line is lethal from an overall talent standpoint. The real life chemistry is there with Joliat-Morenz. Both are excellent top line players here, Morenz especially so. Hull is a pretty good RW on a top line, but I'm not sure he's a great fit. I mean I think he'll certainly enjoy playing with the other talents, but when it comes to function, the line doesn't really have a natural puck winner IMO. Who's going to win the puck battles down low against the most physical players the ATD has to offer?

Overall the line is extremely talented and among the better scoring units in the league.

2nd line is really strong offensively. Cowley is a higher end #2 here. Same with Krutov. They bring a lot of scoring to a 2nd line. Compliment each other well. Playing with the offensive quality of those 2 should really help Mosienko to max out his own production, which isn't great but passable here. I think the group will be on the defensive a good bit so you'll deal with some back and forth going, especially against other quality scoring lines. Again, not much physicality from Cowley or Mosienko, though Krutov certainly played an aggressive game so he'll have to be the primary fore checker. Lot of speed here.

3rd line is classic depth scoring unit. I'll have to re-read Hay's bio just to get a read on any defensive value. Really good scoring depth here, just doesn't seem like much in the way of defensive play at first glance.

4th line is solid. Energy, fore checking.

Overall, one of the better scoring groups in the ATD. I do think this is a forward group that may get pushed around a bit by some teams, and they defensive acumen on the whole is pretty weak. With that being said, they'll score goals and looking at the blue line there is a strong defensive slant.


Power Play:

F's are elite on the top unit. Ozolinsh is ok and I'm guessing he'll be playing on the bottom pairing as I see him listed as a spare. Obviously the lack of offensive ability from the blue line hurts here. 2nd unit seems average, Joliat being the only impressive player.


Defensemen:

Defensively, very strong. These guys are all more or less defensive defensemen. You have a couple of strong/good #2's in Stewart and Conacher to anchor each pairing. Overall though, the big issue is how well will these guys be able to get out of their own end, especially against the aggressive forechecking squads. These guys will all defend very well for their role, no doubt, I just think it's a group who will get hemmed in the D zone more than many others.


Penalty Kill:

Not a bad idea going with Joliat and Morenz on the top unit given the roster make up. I'd move Conacher up top with Stewart. That'd be a lethal combination on a PK. As it stands now the Dmen on the 2nd unit are quite strong, forwards less so IMO.


Goalies:

Sawchuk is going to have to put the team on his back at times, but he's a strong goalie, even in a 24 team draft so you're in better hands than most. Worsley is a good back up, a great tandem to be sure!


Overall:

Strong top 9 forward group, capable of producing a good bit of offense. D corps is strong in their own end, top to bottom, but will face some challenges in transition, generating chances from the blue line and on the PP. Sawchuk is a big presence here as the F group doesn't have a lot of players known for defensive play and while the D corps can certainly defend well, at times they will likely get bogged down in their own zone, so having a great goalie certainly helps. Would certainly be interesting to see if Fred Shero could make it all work!

Thanks again for sticking with us sir!

Thank you for the review!!

 

[ImporterExporter]

Thank you for the review!!

My pleasure bud!

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

One of two un-reviewed posted rosters, so...

I'm still going to try to get some Bios done for the guys that don't have them, but here's the Shamrocks, have at em...


Chicago Shamrocks

Coach: Pat Burns

Paul Kariya - Frank Boucher - Jarome Iginla (A)
Jamie Benn - Henri Richard (A) - Cecil Dillon
Zach Parise - Duke Keats* - Corey Perry
Brenden Morrow - Edgar Laprade* - Eric Nesterenko

*H. Richard will take several shifts on both the 3rd and 4th lines (see chart below)

Frantisek Pospisil (C) - Doug Harvey
Kevin Lowe - Bill Quackenbush
Mike Ramsey - Joe Simpson

Charlie Gardiner
Evgeni Nabokov

Spares: Taylor Hall (LW), Bill Thoms (C - limited time at W), Brent Seabrook (D)

PP1
Kariya - Boucher - Iginla
Harvey - Simpson

PP2
Benn - Keats - Perry
Pospisil - Quackenbush

PK1
Laprade - Nesterenko
Ramsey - Harvey

PK2
Boucher - Dillon
Lowe - Quackenbush

Extra PK F: H. Richard
Extra PK D: Pospisil
​

Estimated Minutes Chart
Notes
- When trailing in the 3rd Keats will get more shifts on the 3rd line and H. Richard will take more of Laprade's shifts on the 4th line
- When leading in the 3rd Laprade will get some of Keats' shifts on the 3rd line
- Zach Parise will take most of Brenden Morrow's shifts on the 4th line when H. Richard is centering
- LW Flexibility: if the 1st line finds themselves in a situation where Burns would like more defensive ability in the ice, Parise can be sent out for that shift and Kariya can get his minutes back playing on the 3rd or 4th line on one of the shifts when H. Richard is centering.
- Harvey will get some shifts with Simpson, before or after which Quackenbush will play with Pospisil
- Harvey and Quackenbush will see some shifts together at end of periods and critical situations

Forwards
Player	ES	PP	PK	Total
P. Kariya	14	4		18
F. Boucher	14	4	3	21
J. Iginla	14	4		18
J. Benn	13	3		16
H. Richard	20			20
C. Dillon	14		3	17
Z. Parise	13			13
D. Keats	8	3		11
C. Perry	11	3		14
B. Morrow	6			6
E. Laprade	4		4	8
E. Nesterenko	7		4	11
TOTAL	138	21	14	173
Defense
Player	ES	PP	PK	Total
D. Harvey	19	5	4	28
F. Pospisil	19	2		21
B. Quackenbush	18	2	3	23
K. Lowe	12		3	15
J. Simpson	13	5		18
M. Ramsey	11		4	15
TOTAL	92	14	14	120

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Staying Out of The Box - Lady Byng Finishes (Top 20)
Boucher: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 4
Kariya: 1, 1, 5, 6, 6, 6, 10, 12, 15
Quackenbush: 1, 3, 4, 4, 4
Laprade: 1, 3, 4, 4, 5
Dillon: 3, 3, 5
H. Richard: 4, 5
Parise: 3, 9, 14
Iginla: 7, 9, 13, 17, 18, 18
Pospisil: [Joe Pelletier: "Pospisil was blessed with good size and great strength. He was a feared physical player in international hockey, though he always played cleanly. He relied primarily on hockey smarts and positional defense."]
Thoms: 3

Years wearing the "C"
Pospisil: 6 years (national team)
H. Richard: 4 years
Iginla: 9 years
------------------
Benn: 8 years
Kariya: 7 years
Morrow: 7 years
Ramsey: 3 years
Harvey: 1 year
Gardiner: 1 year
Keats: 1 year (possibly more in Edmonton)
Lowe: 1 year
Parise: 1 year

First line: something of a mini-discussion has formed in another thread re- the suitability of Kariya on this line. Me- I'm having trouble seeing the problem. One power-scorer (Iginla), one finesse scorer (Kariya) and a Centre perfectly capable of dishing to either. If I was looking to carp, I suppose I'd ask if this was the best use of Kariya's speed. If I were to anticipate an 'ATD Zeitgeist' objection, it's that all of the 'mean' on that line comes from one place. If that's the issue, I'm not sure I care.

Second line- a re-uniting of a couple of HT18 favorites: Henri Richard & Jamie Benn. Cecil Dillon adds an offensive threat and figures to keep pace with the skating of Henri.

Third line: Corey Perry and Duke Keats are the ones that bring the mean. Zach Parise brings a weight to the game, too.

Fourth line: just on an ice-time basis, no 4th line is going to be asked to do less than this one.

Final observation- it's possible that no ATD Forward is going to be asked to do more than Henri Richard, who will be playing 43+% of Chicago's Even-Strength minutes- and do so with three different sets of Wingers. The fate of the Forwards may rest upon Henri Richard's ability to handle this load.

Defensive pairing #1- Pospišíl - Harvey: a line was forming for Pospišíl at the time you selected him. As fine a value #1 pairing as can be found, absent Stevens-Orr.

Defensive pairing #2- Lowe - Quackenbush: Quackenbush will wind up being a sort of '2a' based on your time-on-ice chart, and Lowe's minutes can be best compared to your third-pairing.

Defensive pairing #3- Ramsey - Simpson: nice third pairing, brings Special Teams value and should help keep Harvey from falling over from the workload- speaking of which...

... back before you posted in the Assassination Thread, I did a double-take, wondering how the time-on-ice minutes for the Defense added up. Then, I recognized that you planned on taking advantage of Harvey's bi-laterality to get him out on the ice for over 40% of your even-strength time, 70+% of your Power Play time, and well over half of your Penalty Kill time. Well, if anyone can do it, it would be Harvey. And in actuality, I have more confidence that Harvey will be up to the task than Henri Richard will be up his his allocated assignments.

Goaltending- Charlie Gardiner is an upper-half Goaltender in this size draft. I take it that Nabokov will be an "only-when-necessary" starter (e.g.: back-to-backs or cold-and-flu scratches).

Coaching & Leadership: Pat Burns is an okay Coach for a two-dozen team ATD. I would have been willing to "cheap" for him if a Coaching run had blindsided me. Pospišíl needs no selling to me as Captain. My one reservation is- He's on a team otherwise filled with North Americans, with the only other European player being the back-up Goaltender. It'll definitely be a "lead-by-example" situation. He would have been so much more at-home playing for Philadelphia.

PP1- It's the First Unit, but with Simpson going in for Pospišíl. Will this be a "left-point/right point" configuration? If so, can I figure that you'll invert the listed order for your Ds?
PP2- Brings the weight up into the equation, yet has two LHSs up-top.

PK1- Laprade & Nesterenko will man the up-ice portion on the "you-have-ONE-job" model. Harvey automatically brings elite credentials, and Ramsey has this role as a specialty, but again two LHSs. But (to return to a theme) if anyone can make it completely not matter, it's Harvey.

PK2- Kevin Lowe for crease-clearance, Boucher and Dillon for opportunistic puck-collection, and Quackenbush for, well... all-around game(?) I guess Simpson really is your only RHS-D. [Checks bench- well, there's Seabrook- does Seabrook add context-value that's worth sitting a Brenden Morrow and his half-dozen minutes of ice-time? I'll think about it...]

I gotta admire the "swing-for-the-fences" approach with Harvey. If I were in your situation, and thought to do it, I'd probably do very much the same. I'm not as high on Henri Richard, but (like my attitude on Crosby) it probably wouldn't hurt to just ignore my idiosyncratic perspective. Much appreciation for putting together a team that will contribute to making the Robson Division Vote a really challenging one.

 

[VanIslander]

If you don't post your rosters here, your efforts are useless.

This is about conformity, alligiances and popularity more than an act of heralding greats and skill chemistry.

The integrity of the picks and hockey history are relevant, but secondary, more ammo than decisive.

It's the ATD way.

The draft itself is beside the point.

70slord, dreaks and two Chicago fans know exactly what i mean.

 

[Dreakmur]