ATD 2020 Draft Thread IV

[tabness]

Radz pick Roger Neilson who should compliment Demers well and work well with the team which can have so many potential lineup combinations and tactics beyond clutch and grab

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Radz pick Roger Neilson who should compliment Demers well and work well with the team which can have so many potential lineup combinations and tactics beyond clutch and grab

Usually Neilson is the best "assistant coach" of the ATD. Once in awhile you'll see a GM pick him before their head coach. I've done that "trick" before.

 

[RustyRazor]

The Portland Penguins select Billy Reay, Coach

 

[kruezer]

North Bay is happy to select, from historic capital of the Grand Duchy of Moscow, but of Tatar decent, D Zinetula Bilyaletdinov.

 

[Dreakmur]

I'll catch up with, Jay Bouwmeester, D

He’s probably a worthy 1st unit PKer. I think he is underrated.

 

[Habsfan18]

He’s probably a worthy 1st unit PKer. I think he is underrated.

I had him on my 1st PK unit in the MLD. In a 40 team ATD I can certainly see him making a strong case as a 2nd unit PKer, but I’m not sure I see him as an ideal top unit guy in an ATD. Wouldn’t be horribly out of place of course, but likely not ideal.

Might be one of those things where a 40 teamer does turn him into one though.

 

[ImporterExporter]

@BenchBrawl has until 7:14 PM EST (just under an hour) to pick.

@Sprague Cleghorn (-1) would then be up.

 

[Dreakmur]

I had him on my 1st PK unit in the MLD. In a 40 team ATD I can certainly see him making a strong case as a 2nd unit PKer, but I’m not sure I see him as an ideal top unit guy in an ATD. Wouldn’t be horribly out of place of course, but likely not ideal.

Might be one of those things where a 40 teamer does turn him into one though.

He’s got like 15 years at a top unit PKer. Yeah, some for weak teams, but he had a huge role in St. Louis, even this year.

 

[VanIslander]

He’s got like 15 years at a top unit PKer. Yeah, some for weak teams, but...

The Olli Jokinen and Alexei Zhitnik argument.

Yeah, they are hete undrafted, but they are ALWAYS ATD undrafted, MLD too, until the AAA draft when 70slord trots out ice time stats.

The point is: J-Bo was a disappointment. He is pretty good but in no way great. He is as good of a hockey player as Brendan Fraser was as an actor: good enough to be passable in ideal conditions, part of the problem at other times.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Al Arbour, D

Norris record:

56-57: 10th
68-69: 5th
69-70: 6th

 

[BenchBrawl]

Really like my collection of defensemen right now on Ottawa

Sprague Cleghorn
Guy Lapointe
Jimmy Thomson
Al Arbour
Ryan McDonagh

I have two #1Ds in Cleghorn and Lapointe and one #2D in Thomson.

Pairings would be

Cleghorn - Thomson
McDonagh - Lapointe
X - Arbour

But Arbour will probably see many shifts with Lapointe, with one of them playing LD as left-handed defensemen despite LD being their weaker side. Basically Arbour steals icetime from McDonagh to the point of playing more or equal to him.

Hard to believe I got Arbour so late after McDonagh, considering I think Arbour is better lol.

 

[VanIslander]

... Hard to believe I got Arbour so late after McDonagh, considering I think Arbour is better lol.

Ugh.

Neither are all time greats, imo.

PLEASE. LIKE THIS POST.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Ugh.

Neither are all time greats, imo.

PLEASE. LIKE THIS POST.

Eat a dck VanI

 

[BenchBrawl]

Both are steady, which is what I want in my depth defensemen.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Really like my collection of defensemen right now on Ottawa

Sprague Cleghorn
Guy Lapointe
Jimmy Thomson
Al Arbour
Ryan McDonagh

I have two #1Ds in Cleghorn and Lapointe and one #2D in Thomson.

Pairings would be

Cleghorn - Thomson
McDonagh - Lapointe
X - Arbour

But Arbour will probably see many shifts with Lapointe, with one of them playing LD as left-handed defensemen despite LD being their weaker side. Basically Arbour steals icetime from McDonagh to the point of playing more or equal to him.

Hard to believe I got Arbour so late after McDonagh, considering I think Arbour is better lol.

I think it's a stretch to call Lapointe a #1. He's not a "true #1" at least.

Arbour is a really good pick at this point. One of the best Norris records left, and he did really well on that coach's poll for "best defensive defenseman."

I still don't get your McDonagh pick though. At least not yet.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I think it's a stretch to call Lapointe a #1. He's not a "true #1" at least.

Arbour is a really good pick at this point. One of the best Norris records left, and he did really well on that coach's poll for "best defensive defenseman."

I still don't get your McDonagh pick though. At least not yet.

How is it a stretch?

How is Lapointe not a Top 40 defenseman, really? He finished 32th in the Top 60 project. Now some active defensemen like Chara came into his range, as well as Keith and Doughty. And maybe you disagree with the 2012 ranking. But all this said, is it a stretch? I'd say the burden would be on the one saying he isn't a (low-end) #1D in a 40 teams draft. The 40th ranked defenseman was JC Tremblay !

Edit: OK, if you mean "true #1", as in, there's only 25 or so #1, then sure. On my team Lapointe plays on the 2nd pairing and on both top special units, which is an ideal situation.

McDonagh, LD. Steady defensively, I was not in top research mode. I wanted Armstrong, Tsygankov, Arbour, so on, but they're all RDs.

 

[BenchBrawl]

@TheDevilMadeMe do you have anything against McDonagh per say, or is it just you don't think he's at the level of the myriad of defensive defensemen being taken in the last few rounds?

 

[BenchBrawl]

Arbour is a really good pick at this point. One of the best Norris records left, and he did really well on that coach's poll for "best defensive defenseman."

Yes and that coach poll is from 1971, so not one of his Norris years. That gives him 4 years when there is evidence he was highly regarded.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

How is it a stretch?

How is Lapointe not a Top 40 defenseman, really? He finished 32th in the Top 60 project. Now some active defensemen like Chara came into his range, as well as Keith and Doughty. And maybe you disagree with the 2012 ranking. But all this said, is it a stretch? I'd say the burden would be on the one saying he isn't a (low-end) #1D in a 40 teams draft. The 40th ranked defenseman was JC Tremblay !

Edit: OK, if you mean "true #1", as in, there's only 25 or so #1, then sure. On my team Lapointe plays on the 2nd pairing and on both top special units, which is an ideal situation.

McDonagh, LD. Steady defensively, I was not in top research mode. I wanted Armstrong, Tsygankov, Arbour, so on, but they're all RDs.

Everything you said in your edit about Lapointe PLUS a lot of his value is on special teams. Just as an example - I'd comfortably take Niedermayer over Lapointe at even strength, but would prefer Lapointe on both special teams.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

@TheDevilMadeMe do you have anything against McDonagh per say, or is it just you don't think he's at the level of the myriad of defensive defensemen being taken in the last few rounds?

I think he's worthy of being drafted at some point, but was he the best when he was drafted? Two 8th place finishes in Norris voting and 2 All Star games is ok I guess.

That's quite a bit less recognition than Arbour, I would say.

 

[Dreakmur]

The Olli Jokinen and Alexei Zhitnik argument.

Yeah, they are hete undrafted, but they are ALWAYS ATD undrafted, MLD too, until the AAA draft when 70slord trots out ice time stats.

The point is: J-Bo was a disappointment. He is pretty good but in no way great. He is as good of a hockey player as Brendan Fraser was as an actor: good enough to be passable in ideal conditions, part of the problem at other times.

A disappointment compared to what heels thought of at the draft, perhaps.

Bouwmeester was good enough to play for Canada at 4 best on best tournaments - 2 Olympics and 2 world cups.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I think he's worthy of being drafted at some point, but was he the best when he was drafted? Two 8th place finishes in Norris voting and 2 All Star games is ok I guess.

That's quite a bit less recognition than Arbour, I would say.

McDonagh: OK, but the reason I took McDonagh and not Arbour is because McDonagh is a LD and Arbour is a RD. Same for Bob Armstrong and Tsygankov. Which other LDs were better than McDonagh? I'm just curious, I'm not even defending the pick.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Everything you said in your edit about Lapointe PLUS a lot of his value is on special teams. Just as an example - I'd comfortably take Niedermayer over Lapointe at even strength, but would prefer Lapointe on both special teams.

It's hard to rank Lapointe at ES, but let's not underrate him either. Guy always came big during tough games by reputation, and "coming big" in tough games is not done on special units in general.

Lapointe had the reputation of being able to do everything well, so in that sense, he "feels" like more of a #1 than guys like Stevens, even if it would be absurd to say he's better.

 

[tinyzombies]

Very rough idea of player usage since we don’t have minutes played from back then.
This shows how players were deployed, whether offensive or defensive fashion and whether it’s against top or depth lines. Shaded circles mean they had more shot attempts than their opponents. The bigger circles mean they were better (or worse/in a more defensive role if it’s a big white circle) than their teammates. Big white circles = bad. Horizontal access - farther to the right equals more offensive zone starts. Vertical the higher you go means the tougher the players you had to play against.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Very rough idea of player usage since we don’t have minutes played from back then.
This shows how players were deployed, whether offensive or defensive fashion and whether it’s against top or depth lines. Shaded circles mean they had more shot attempts than their opponents. The bigger circles mean they were better (or worse/in a more defensive role if it’s a big white circle) than their teammates. Big white circles = bad. Horizontal access - farther to the right equals more offensive zone starts. Vertical the higher you go means the tougher the players you had to play against.

View attachment 336947

Where is this from? Any chance you can send me the few pages dealing with this in PM?