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ATD 2017 Draft Thread IV

First off kudos to seventies for the magnificent work done there. Great research tool for sure. :handclap: Anyway my thoughts on recent picks:

Bob Armstrong: Good way to finish your starting 6 defensemen, him and Bergman will form a good bottom/shutdown pairing for your team.

Kris Draper: Not much offensively but defensively he's going to be a solid hand to have, good pick.

Eric Staal: A favorite of mine. Should provide some good energy to your 4th line and is a lower end option for your PP 2. (Maybe put Demitra there instead)

Arkady Chernyshev: Don't know that much about the Russian coaches unfortunately but he seems to be fine as a lower end coach here.

Jean Pronovost: Had him last yr., good bottom 6 player who's going to provide your team with some good 2 way play.

Bob Bourne: Seems like a good 4th line player here, him, Shadrin and Curry form a good 4th/checking line for you.

Jimmy Roerts: Decent pick and should serve your pk well as well as your 4th line.

Jiri Bubla: Seems like a good 2 way, reading his bio he seems like a physical player, that's going to be very interesting to play vs. teams that are a little softer.

Venjamin Alexandrov: Seems like a good goal scorer who's going to work well with the playmaker Backstrom on your 3rd line.

Craig Hartsburg: Had him a couple drafts ago. Very good offensive defenseman but unfortunatey injuries hurt him (Pun intended). Drafting Reijo looks to be a decent move now as you have a capable extra who can fill in when Hartsburg goes out with injury.

Harry Lumley; Given Smith is your #1 it makes to have Lumley as your #2. Smith used to split time with his backup during the regular season in his NHL career so it makes sense he'd do that here as well.

Bob Davidson: Your first spare, he's more of a defensive guy, so maybe a fill in on your bottom 6 for Graves or Stanfield if they have to sit out a game.

Chuck Rayner: Given your goalie is a top 10-15 all time goalie, any reason to go for a backup so soon? Nothing wrong with Rayner just wondering why'd you go backup goalie so soon.

Igor Liba: I remember ? this pick in a past draft but after reading up on him he seems like a very good pick, good player for a bottom line and a pk.

Wendel Clark: Nothing vs. you broad but it may still be to early to draft Clark. In a draft this size I think Clark's best served as an extra forward. A guy who can come in late in the season and really bang around your opponents. He went 429 last year so he dropped this year but he can drop again.

Lynn Patrick: He's a decent pick but he's more offense only, he should fit in well as an offensive spark plug on a line with Sittler and Recchi.

Pat Quinn: The first coach of my first ATD team with Dave G in 2011, he's more of an offensive coach but your team is more offensive anyway so good style match there. He's familair with Sundin too.

Anyway those are my thoughts on recent picks. I'm up in 9 picks so time to do some research.
 
tony d said:
Chuck Rayner: Given your goalie is a top 10-15 all time goalie, any reason to go for a backup so soon? Nothing wrong with Rayner just wondering why'd you go backup goalie so soon.
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Lundqvist
Fuhr
Parent
Bower
Belfour

Being in the weakest division in terms of goaltending it made sense from my perspective to grab a backup that in some cases is close to as good as some of the other team's starters pushing my goaltending advantage especially in the regular season. Also I was actually keen on taking an assistant coach but that didn't materialize sadly and all the skaters around this point all blend together and the only ones I'm interested in will be around in ~50 picks
 
Yes, I was thinking about the full team Toledo Goal Diggers, in which case it should be for Lemieux:

Totally Oblirated Draper.
 
Balon = Traded By Canadiens
Backstrom = Most Helped Center
Nieuwendyk = In No way Defensive
Henrik Sedin = Txxxxx Made us Laugh
Giroux = Defense Un Known
Marshall = Checks So Kleanly
 
I need another good shot for my 2nd PP unit.

Stockholm selects Rick Vaive, RW

vaive_gal.jpg
 
I wish I wasn't so busy at work so I could contribute more...

Turgeon: Tinman, Be Careful
Toews: Much Heralded Captain
Bergeron: Turbo(Total) Back Checker
 
seventieslord said:
McKenney looks like an outstanding ES producer, but I've had him before and couldn't believe how impossible it was to find anything substantial saying he could check. If he could, he'd be a Backstrom/Goyette but unless I'm missing something there, he's more of an offense only player.
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There are quite a few sources calling him good defensively. Not enough to say he's elite or anything, but there's enough that I would call him a moderate plus in terms of defensive ability.
 
Dreakmur said:
There are quite a few sources calling him good defensively. Not enough to say he's elite or anything, but there's enough that I would call him a moderate plus in terms of defensive ability.
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I meant to address this earlier as well but got caught up in the other discussions...Billy's bio has some good quotes. I agree with your assessment
 
Hawkey Town 18 said:
I meant to address this earlier as well but got caught up in the other discussions...Billy's bio has some good quotes. I agree with your assessment
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The tricky thing with McKenney vis-á-vis defense is that no one has ever unearthed any primary sources which describe his defensive game. We have three secondary sources, one of which is Pelletier, one of which is a sort of "Who's Who" hockey history book, and one of which is The Trail.

I think this is the problem to which seventies is referring, as I'm sure he tried to hunt down primary sources to substantiate McKenney's intangibles when he owned Don. Now, three secondary sources is something, and The Trail is usually quite reliable, but it does feel a bit thin, especially considering that at least Pelletier is likely simply regurgitating what is said in The Trail.
 
Sturminator said:
The tricky thing with McKenney vis-á-vis defense is that no one has ever unearthed any primary sources which describe his defensive game. We have three secondary sources, one of which is Pelletier, one of which is a sort of "Who's Who" hockey history book, and one of which is The Trail.

I think this is the problem to which seventies is referring, as I'm sure he tried to hunt down primary sources to substantiate McKenney's intangibles when he owned Don. Now, three secondary sources is something, and The Trail is usually quite reliable, but it does feel a bit thin, especially considering that at least Pelletier is likely simply regurgitating what is said in The Trail.
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This is fair, so worst case, he's a non-liability (zero) defensively, but there's potential for more if some more evidence can be found
 
McKenney's defensive game could easily be solved if someone was willing to go through a good sample size of game reports. Unfortunately, Boston and Toronto newspaper archives are a pain to find (that is if they can even be found without paying, being a student at one of the above cities' universities or holding a library card for one of those cities).
 
Hawkey Town 18 said:
This is fair, so worst case, he's a non-liability (zero) defensively, but there's potential for more if some more evidence can be found
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Yeah, I'd say that's the case. Something is better than nothing, but we're not talking about a whole lot of something here. Sprague is also correct that Boston and Toronto newspapers are notoriously difficult to search without buying a subscription. I well remember the same frustration once upon a time while researching Joe Klukay's career.
 
Montreal has a great deal of papers available throughout history on Google Archives. They generally give good game reports for every single game, even out of town ones.
 
seventieslord said:
....dude. You think less ice time affects Ramsay, Luce and Gare more than it affects Mullen or something? They were all 14 minute ES players in thier primes.
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Mullen being 22% or whatever number we arrive at better than Ramsay (and I believe it would be higher in the ATD as Ramsay will be focused on checking at the expense of offense) would persist regardless of the ice-time.

My point is that in reducing his ice-time even further- there is a difference between the second and third line- will obviously come with a reduced number of points. It has to. The same would happen to Mullen, but he'd still be 20%+ better an ES scorer. As I said, I don't know why we're debating that.

I think it's absolutely worth discussing whether Mullen's extra 5 ESP (that's based on a 22% advantage, so let's say Ramsay scores 23 in the ATD) are worth the huge defensive difference?
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That wasn't the question though. The question was, who is the better ES scorer? We know it's Mullen. They obviously serve different roles, and a team could easily have both on their third line if they so chose, but Mullen would still be the better producer.

Luce was the real ES monster?? Based on what?
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Based on ESP finishes. As mentioned, Ramsay's high was a pair of 14ths; Luce has a 10th, a 16th, a 19th and several others in the top 30. Ramsay, meanwhile, had the rest of his outside of the 2x 14th place finishes in the 40s or lower. It's not really close.

I don't get what the point is about a supposed relationship between ESP and selke votes.
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I apologize if I wasn't clear; the relationship is that Ramsay needed to sacrifice significant offense to even garner a top 3 Selke vote. One of his stronger Selke years came with a 14th place finish, but his actual win- and the rest of his top 5 voting finishes- were all much lower. I believe it's absolutely worth factoring into Ramsay's ATD effectiveness. That he had to go from the top 20 to the 60s (!) in ES production to even sniff a Selke most years is telling.
 
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