ATD 2017 Draft Thread II

[jarek]

I was considering Doughty/Siebert for a long-time. I think Doughty is a great pick at this point in the draft.

I'm going to just come out and say that I don't know what makes Siebert any better than Doughty, or the next few defensemen that will be taken. He has an incredible peak - as good as any defenseman - but he only played D for, at most, 5 seasons. It's likely closer to 4.

The nice thing about Siebert though is that you can throw him in front of the net on the PP. Get a bit of mileage out of that time spent at forward.

As far as Doughty, again, I don't see what makes Siebert better. He has Doughty on peak, but only slightly, and Doughty has several more seasons as a top defenseman on Siebert. Not to mention his playoffs.

One more fact about Doughty that is very much in his favour here. He, along with Gerard, was undisputedly the best defenseman on one of the best teams in the league. That particular fact is going to be in short supply from now on.

After much deliberation, Im going to take František Pospíšil, D. I'm not sure if I want to seperate Leetch and MacInnis yet but Pospíšil can either play on the top pairing with MacInnis or he can be he the lead on my second paring. Either way he'll add some more leadership and clean physical play to the backend.

2x WC Best Defenseman
3x WC All-Star Team
2x Czech Player of the Year

Such an interesting player. Unfortunately we don't know a hell of a lot about him other than he's good.

I would request that you go through the HOH defenseman project and consolidate all the information that was posted about him in the voting threads!

 

[Sturminator]

Such an interesting player. Unfortunately we don't know a hell of a lot about him other than he's good.

I would request that you go through the HOH defenseman project and consolidate all the information that was posted about him in the voting threads!

We know some things. We know he was an excellent passer who put up impressive scoring numbers when he was young. We know he was physical and strong in his own end in spite of mediocre skating, and we know he was a great captain.

 

[seventieslord]

Give me Tom Johnson, D, then I can finally stop thinking about defensemen and filling out these forward units.

 

[jarek]

Give me Tom Johnson, D, then I can finally stop thinking about defensemen and filling out these forward units.

You know that's not going to happen. It's not possible for ATD GMs to not think about taking a defenseman with every pick.

I considered Johnson over Doughty, and I ended up at the conclusion that there's just no way Johnson was better. Johnson actually has a decent run of Norris voting, about 6 or 7 season's worth of top-10 consideration. But Doughty has similar and schools him in the playoffs.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

You know that's not going to happen. It's not possible for ATD GMs to not think about taking a defenseman with every pick.

I considered Johnson over Doughty, and I ended up at the conclusion that there's just no way Johnson was better. Johnson actually has a decent run of Norris voting, about 6 or 7 season's worth of top-10 consideration. But Doughty has similar and schools him in the playoffs.

The case for Johnson is that he was stuck behind Harvey for all those years. The one year he wasn't he won the Norris. How would Doughty have done on the same team as Harvey?

 

[seventieslord]

Yeah, I'm not sure it's fair to say Doughty "schools" a guy in the playoffs, who was #2 behind Doug Harvey for 6 stanley cups.

 

[jarek]

The case for Johnson is that he was stuck behind Harvey for all those years. The one year he wasn't he won the Norris. How would Doughty have done on the same team as Harvey?

Well obviously we can't know for sure, but Doughty did pretty damn well on his own. The reverse is that, would Johnson have been able to maintain that Norris-trophy level if Harvey was never around?

I'm not going to say Doughty is miles ahead of Johnson. It's close. Dwight and I were down to about 4-5 defensemen, all reasonably close before we settled on Doughty. Johnson was one of them.

What Doughty has over Johnson is that there are no "what-ifs". He WAS the best defenseman, and it wasn't particularly close, for a team that won two Stanley Cups. In both those runs, he combined elite defense with really good offense.

Really what it came down to is that Doughty has a really good chance to add a lot more to his resume this season. If he ends the year as a top-10 defenseman, and I think he's well on pace to do that, there shouldn't be much doubt about his standing over Johnson.

The other part of it, and this was the case for my selecting Gerard as well, is that Doughty is the undisputed best defenseman on what has been one of the elite teams in the NHL the last decade.

Also, not sure how relevant this is going to be as it seems modern international play isn't taken too seriously, but Doughty has been on 3 gold medal winning teams internationally.

 

[tony d]

I'm well aware I'm going to catch a lot of flak for this pick, I got it last year but as time has gone on he's a guy I need for my team and at least on my 1st line I have Hossa right now so he won't be on a 1st line per se.

Still welcome back to my team for the 2nd yr. in a row with pick 162 of the 2017 ATD Right Winger Cam Neely.

7

Yeah Neely is Neely but the guy is a 5 time all star, 3 time 50 goal scorer. It was only injuries that ruined him, even his last season, 1995-96, he had 46 points in 49 games.

Next has been pmed.

 

[markrander87]

Nice pick Tony, he looks like a perfect winger for that talented group you have.

 

[jarek]

Nice pick Tony, he looks like a perfect winger for that talented group you have.

When I looked over tony's roster the other day, I had the exact same thought. I honestly would throw him on the first line for his team, it badly needs more toughness.

 

[JFA87-66-99]

I'm going to just come out and say that I don't know what makes Siebert any better than Doughty, or the next few defensemen that will be taken. He has an incredible peak - as good as any defenseman - but he only played D for, at most, 5 seasons. It's likely closer to 4.

The nice thing about Siebert though is that you can throw him in front of the net on the PP. Get a bit of mileage out of that time spent at forward.

As far as Doughty, again, I don't see what makes Siebert better. He has Doughty on peak, but only slightly, and Doughty has several more seasons as a top defenseman on Siebert. Not to mention his playoffs.

One more fact about Doughty that is very much in his favour here. He, along with Gerard, was undisputedly the best defenseman on one of the best teams in the league. That particular fact is going to be in short supply from now on.

I agree with you on the Doughty/Siebert front. For some reason I was thinking I had good chance at Drew Doughty with my next pick at #196, but I will say as of right now there pretty close in peak years if just going off there best 4-5 seasons. Of course Doughty was #1 anchor on 2 Stanley Cup teams but Siebert definitely has 4 great peak years which intrigues me for sure. Like you said I also like the fact I can use Babe Siebert as a utility player if needed maybe a decent net presence on the PP. Not sure yet, but I can see Doughty rising to top #100 status by ATD 2020.

 

[tony d]

Thanks guys. Yeah, that's the plan. Again as time goes on the team will get tougher but right now Neely was good and at least I got a decent right winger to fill in for Neely in Hossa if Neely gets injured.

 

[Ben Grimm]

Thanks guys. Yeah, that's the plan. Again as time goes on the team will get tougher but right now Neely was good and at least I got a decent right winger to fill in for Neely in Hossa if Neely gets injured.

Congrats on Neely and good luck with your next pick at 164. I've always thought you were one of the nicest, good/high character GMs. Gotta go pick up Sean Patrick from high school now.

 

[JFA87-66-99]

Do you guys think Neely gets under-rated at times. I mean I know he was hurt a lot, but what a dominant force he was. You dont see to many players with that size, strength, and skills combo. He was kinda like a way more skilled Milan Lucic.

 

[seventieslord]

I agree with you on the Doughty/Siebert front. For some reason I was thinking I had good chance at Drew Doughty with my next pick at #196, but I will say as of right now there pretty close in peak years if just going off there best 4-5 seasons. Of course Doughty was #1 anchor on 2 Stanley Cup teams but Siebert definitely has 4 great peak years which intrigues me for sure. Like you said I also like the fact I can use Babe Siebert as a utility player if needed maybe a decent net presence on the PP. Not sure yet, but I can see Doughty rising to top #100 status by ATD 2020.

I would also add, it's not right to treat Babe Siebert the ATD defenseman as though he had a 6 year career.

 

[Iceman]

Do you guys think Neely gets under-rated at times. I mean I know he was hurt a lot, but what a dominant force he was. You dont see to many players with that size, strength, and skills combo. He was kinda like a way more skilled Milan Lucic.

He takes a lot of heat partly because he is placed in an impossible situation to success a lot of times in the ATD.

He is drafted to be a physical demon and a scoring machine. He was that in real life but he won't be able to do that to the same extent on an ATD first line.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Do you guys think Neely gets under-rated at times. I mean I know he was hurt a lot, but what a dominant force he was. You dont see to many players with that size, strength, and skills combo. He was kinda like a way more skilled Milan Lucic.

He got overdrafted, in my first ATD back in 2014 I think I took him just outside 100 ahead of Bryan Hextall Sr

He's finally settling into the right spot IMO

 

[jarek]

I would also add, it's not right to treat Babe Siebert the ATD defenseman as though he had a 6 year career.

How do you mean?

Re. Neely: I usually stay away from guys like this because they almost always go way too early. Olmstead is another one that kept going too high. I suppose players like that provide a skillset that is quite rare and thus the demand for them is high.

 

[tony d]

Congrats on Neely and good luck with your next pick at 164. I've always thought you were one of the nicest, good/high character GMs. Gotta go pick up Sean Patrick from high school now.

Thanks for the complements. Again I enjoy this alot. It'd be nice to win it all of course one day but for right now this is a bit of fun for me and should be for all of us. It's great to do research and read up different parts of hockey history. I enjoy also the comradery here amongst all GM's, sure we may not always agree but it's always good to see the high road always took and nobody being to personal. The day any of us takes this to to seriously is the day to step back and leave.

 

[jarek]

Thanks for the complements. Again I enjoy this alot. It'd be nice to win it all of course one day but for right now this is a bit of fun for me and should be for all of us. It's great to do research and read up different parts of hockey history. I enjoy also the comradery here amongst all GM's, sure we may not always agree but it's always good to see the high road always took and nobody being to personal. The day any of us takes this to to seriously is the day to step back and leave.

I too would say that you've been one of the class acts in the ATD and it's always a pleasure having you as a GM.

I agree with you on the Doughty/Siebert front. For some reason I was thinking I had good chance at Drew Doughty with my next pick at #196, but I will say as of right now there pretty close in peak years if just going off there best 4-5 seasons. Of course Doughty was #1 anchor on 2 Stanley Cup teams but Siebert definitely has 4 great peak years which intrigues me for sure. Like you said I also like the fact I can use Babe Siebert as a utility player if needed maybe a decent net presence on the PP. Not sure yet, but I can see Doughty rising to top #100 status by ATD 2020.

Doughty's Norris win last year went a very long way towards propelling him up in the ranks. Couple more seasons like that easily puts him in the top-100 I would say.

Definitely not saying Siebert was a bad pick - he was a finalist for who Dwight and I would have taken when we took Doughty.

 

[King Forsberg]

Cam Neely

I agree that this is a great spot for Neely. I was this close to grabbing him at 160. As others have said, he'll be a nice compliment to your forwards.

 

[seventieslord]

Do you guys think Neely gets under-rated at times. I mean I know he was hurt a lot, but what a dominant force he was. You dont see to many players with that size, strength, and skills combo. He was kinda like a way more skilled (undrafted).

(edit out the undrafted please)

I think he’s still overrated and drafted too high, but it’s getting better at least.

How do you mean?

I mean, you appear willing to only give him the same credit you would as though he didn’t also play 9 seasons as a left wing (many of them a very high end one).

Unless I misinterpreted your post.

 

[jarek]

I mean, you appear willing to only give him the same credit you would as though he didn’t also play 9 seasons as a left wing (many of them a very high end one).

Unless I misinterpreted your post.

What's the alternative?

You cannot possibly give him credit for time he didn't spend playing as a defenseman. However, I am open to suggestions on how to handle this.

To be clear, if he is used exclusively as a defenseman here, then I don't see what value his time at LW would add to the quality of play you could expect from him in the ATD.

 

[seventieslord]

What's the alternative?

You cannot possibly give him credit for time he didn't spend playing as a defenseman. However, I am open to suggestions on how to handle this.

To be clear, if he is used exclusively as a defenseman here, then I don't see what value his time at LW would add to the quality of play you could expect from him in the ATD.

The alternative is to view him as an actual player and not a set of seasons.

 

[jarek]

The alternative is to view him as an actual player and not a set of seasons.

Well, quite frankly, I don't know how.

How exactly do you give him credit as a defenseman for time spent at LW?