ATD 2011 Draft Thread II

[EagleBelfour]

is anybody going to be here awhile? i may have to go in about an hour and a half and i dont know who to give my shortlist to

It's 14:30 around here, I should be around for another 10 hours or so

 

[seventieslord]

can you say more about that? i have never heard of it.

My ears perked up at that as well. I never heard this before.

Gadsby was the top defenseman left on my list after Seibert went, but I don't know that he was particularly better than a couple of guys who are left.

I'm still not convinced that his defensive game was anything special, to be honest.

That's where I'm at, too.

I mean, the guy was often the top defensemen on very bad teams that suffered a lot of goals against. He has to shoulder some of that blame for all the goals against.

I know I'm not in the draft but I've got some decent Gadsby quotes from "Detroit Red Wings Greatest Moments and Players" by Stan Fischler:





Don't know what to make of the second quote....whether or not it is an almost backhanded slap or what, but either way he did play his best defensively it seems in the playoffs.

And from Legends of Hockey:



Obviously I think this proves he was more than adequate in his defensive ability considering how capable of leading a rush he really was.

that's it, bud. Get your feet wet. And we'll see you in the MLD.

 

[vecens24]

My ears perked up at that as well. I never heard this before.



That's where I'm at, too.

I mean, the guy was often the top defensemen on very bad teams that suffered a lot of goals against. He has to shoulder some of that blame for all the goals against.





that's it, bud. Get your feet wet. And we'll see you in the MLD.

Hahah it's pretty addicting researching this stuff not gonna lie. Hopefully I have time.

Plus its more interesting than struggling through Portuguese.

 

[MadArcand]

Börje Salming, D

<bio to come later>

 

[nik jr]

By the admission of his own coach: "The biggest reason we won," coach Bill Stewart asserted, "was that we had Earl Seibert on our defense. The big guy played about 55 minutes a game."

can you give me a source?

i was just reading something where the coach "was particular in his praise" for the goalie, though it was partly b/c the goalie was injured. 2 other goalies played games. alfie moore apparently was very good in game 1, and was mentioned as the star of the game along with a couple of F's. i read that moore may have been drunk before the game (he was pulled out of a pub before the game) and that he was declared ineligible for game 2. paul goodman was in net for game 2 (1-5 loss), played poorly, and was apparently also declared ineligible after the game.

i am reading game reports, which are mostly short, and seibert is generally not mentioned. i am not seeing anything that would lead me to think seibert carried chicago. i should find some longer reports from bigger papers.

TML's D was apparently not very good, other than in game 2. montreal gazette said after the series ended that chicago had "great defensive tactics," and described their checking as "ceaseless." "once they had the lead, hawks didn't take an unnecessary chance."

3-14-1938 calgary daily herald said after the finals ended that "veterans carried the brunt of the playoff burden," but does not name seibert.

 

[Dreakmur]

Ok, is the Nylad/papershoes trade a go? I've got both their lists, I just need to know if the trade is OK to go.....

 

[hungryhungryhippy]

Börje Salming, D

<bio to come later>

Great pick. The last of a batch of defenseman that (imo) can be ranked anywhere from 12-22. So you got the best value.

Ok, is the Nylad/papershoes trade a go? I've got both their lists, I just need to know if the trade is OK to go.....

I'm pretty sure the trade is a go; papershoes is up.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Ok, is the Nylad/papershoes trade a go? I've got both their lists, I just need to know if the trade is OK to go.....

Yes, Papershoes to pick.

 

[Dreakmur]

The player is available, so the trade is going though. papershoes list-picks Ted Kennedy

I'll PM the next GM.

 

[EagleBelfour]

The player is available, so the trade is going though. papershoes list-picks Ted Kennedy

I'll PM the next GM.

I love the selection. On my (mental) list, Ted Kennedy is the third best playoff performer of All-Time. I've learned last draft that he was faster than I gave him credit for. A very versatile and complete hockey player.

 

[hungryhungryhippy]

I think jxrx has the next GM's list so you should probably PM him.

 

[Dreakmur]

I love the selection. On my (mental) list, Ted Kennedy is the third best playoff performer of All-Time. I've learned last draft that he was faster than I gave him credit for. A very versatile and complete hockey player.

It's not a bad selection at all, but I'm not sure he had to trade up to get him.

When I said there is a drop off in talent after a handful of guys, I wasn't including Kennedy in that group.... but he is in the next group.

 

[hungryhungryhippy]

I love the selection. On my (mental) list, Ted Kennedy is the third best playoff performer of All-Time. I've learned last draft that he was faster than I gave him credit for. A very versatile and complete hockey player.

Really? Pelletier used to have a quote (I think) about how despite his unique skating style, he got from point A to point B as fast as most, and better than many (paraphrase), but last time I checked he seemed to have edited it out and replaced it with: "While he was a horrendous skater, he made up for it with his competitive zeal.... "

Is that the quote you were referring to? Or is there other stuff I'm missing?

 

[EagleBelfour]

It's not a bad selection at all, but I'm not sure he had to trade up to get him.

When I said there is a drop off in talent after a handful of guys, I wasn't including Kennedy in that group.... but he is in the next group.

I disagree with those two points. He definitely had to trade up to get him, and I think he's definitely one of the best 5 forwards available. Now, would I have traded that much to get him? Another question.

----

Really? Pelletier used to have a quote (I think) about how despite his unique skating style, he got from point A to point B as fast as most, and better than many (paraphrase), but last time I checked he seemed to have edited it out and replaced it with: "While he was a horrendous skater, he made up for it with his competitive zeal.... "

Is that the quote you were referring to? Or is there other stuff I'm missing?

Kennedy was not a smooth skater but his scrambling style was quite effective.

But beside his plodding skating style, he managed to get from point A to point B as well as any and better than most.

-''Whenever anyone was chasing me, I don't remember anyone ever catching me. Weither it was out of fear, I don't know.'' - Ted Kennedy

 

[hungryhungryhippy]

Ahhh, I see. So that quote I was thinking of was from The Trail and not Pelletier

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Seibert is a steal to get him where he did - though building your team around him is pretty rough as a #1 pick.

It was either him or Horton for me at #41, Pronger and Cleghorn weren't on my radar.

 

[thatguy17]

jkrx, im still here so i'll pick

 

[EagleBelfour]

Ahhh, I see. So that quote I was thinking of was from The Trail and not Pelletier

I think it's Ultimate hockey who has him as the worst skater of the 1940's., so I always assume he was a terrible skater. I'll agree that he probably was the worst skater of the 'elite players', but with what I found on him, I have a hard time believing he was the worst skater to set foot in the NHL in the 1940's. And it's not like UH is bullet-proof. Their worst defensive player of the 1970's is quite ridiculous.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Ironic, if MadArcand took Kennedy, my plan was to take Salming.

Kennedy is a great player and pick, strongly considered him myself with the pick. He retired very young which is a concern, but honestly, if he didn't he'd probably be in the Yzerman/Sakic range. But ultimately, drafting him just wasn't the direction I wanted this time.

 

[thatguy17]

the vancouver velocity select, the man many consider to be the greatest american born defensemen of all-time BRIAN LEETCH

20 goal mark broken 5 times
Calder Memorial Trophy (1989)
James Norris Memorial Trophy (1992, 1997)
Lester Patrick Award (2007)
NHL All-Rookie Team (1989)
NHL All-Star Game (1990, 1998, 2001, 2002)
NHL First All-Star Team (1992, 1997)
NHL Second All-Star Team (1991, 1994, 1996)

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

....And the love affair with defenceman goes on. Some unbelievable forwards to be picked on the board at 65-75.

 

[Dreakmur]

....And the love affair with defenceman goes on. Some unbelievable forwards to be picked on the board at 65-75.

At the same time, you've got to get a good defenseman before they're all gone.

 

[Sturminator]

I get the feeling that Seibert never truly reached the potential that he could have reached.

I get that feeling about him, too, and I find it strange that Seibert was only once a 1st team all-star before the war years took their toll. I mean...losing out to Eddie Shore or Clancy (early in his career) is understandable, but even after Shore's star had faded (39-40 and 40-41), Seibert just couldn't get over the hump, losing 1st team spots to Clapper and a couple of guys who haven't been drafted yet, one of whom won't be drafted for a long time.

Given Seibert's...ahem...consistency in being the 3rd or 4th best defenseman in the league, I think it's only safe to assume that he continued that level of play when the NHL's defensive corps was gutted during WWII. His final three 1st team all-star awards, then, I can only in good conscience credit as being about the value of a 2nd team award, and I consider that rather charitable, as the level of competition for all-star spots on defense sank precipitously (seriously...look at the other all-stars in 41-42).

Seibert looks like a fine value at 60th overall, and was one of the last remaining cornerstone defensemen, making it a worthwhile trade for you to get into the tier before it dried up (and it did quite quickly). People overpay for #1 defensemen in this thing for a reason. Don't get caught without one. At any rate, I find Seibert's placement after Cleghorn/Clancy and before Gadsby/Salming quite appropriate, and not out of line with the value that all of the GMs drafting defensemen in this tier have gotten.

 

[Dreakmur]

the vancouver velocity select, the man many consider to be the greatest american born defensemen of all-time BRIAN LEETCH

20 goal mark broken 5 times
Calder Memorial Trophy (1989)
James Norris Memorial Trophy (1992, 1997)
Lester Patrick Award (2007)
NHL All-Rookie Team (1989)
NHL All-Star Game (1990, 1998, 2001, 2002)
NHL First All-Star Team (1992, 1997)
NHL Second All-Star Team (1991, 1994, 1996)

Good pick. You're not forgetting his Conn Smythe, are you? Leetch was a monster in the play-offs, where is point production goes way up.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Börje Salming, D

<bio to come later>

Salming as a Red Wing? Blasphemy! Very good pick - I love how good he was at both ends of the ice.